New mods?

[wombat]

Feb 11, 2018 23:33:49 GMT aline said:

And I, together with a few others, am making the following points:
1) sticky threads are useful
2) actually we can need one right now
3) we can have a sticky thread person without having actual mods, as korba found out
4) do you know of any sane reasons to be opposed to sticky threads, because I can't think of one

Is there a reason you quoted half my post? I basically went on to agree with what you're advocating for.

[Deleted]

aline : I think that you should first ask Tom whether he would grant your request on general principle, candidate pending. Linking that ProBoards manual page should help to show him directly that your suggestion is technically possible, and minimally-invasive. Whether you can convince him that it's necessary is another matter.

One hopefully-sane argument against stickying threads in general: we have (in my humble opinion) a good selection of threads worthy of the pin, but pinning too many of them will start to obscure regular threads on the first page, which might lead to smaller threads that aren't page discussion falling off it undeservedly soon; accepting all requests might lead to clutter; denying one might lead to drama.

I still think that your best bet is to compile and maintain an index of interesting threads, with arbitrary elegance (I'm sure that is the phrase), and after completing the first edition, ask Tom to pin this one to the forefront. Said index could double as a resource for new users, as this sticky issue first came up through confusion of traditional thread title etiquette.

On that note, I had prepared a longer and somewhat off-topic response to pick up on brokshi's comment, which I'm reluctant to publish, as it necessarily names some names -- even if only favourably. In brief, based on member and thread statistics, I think the "veteran" user base isn't as unstable as he suggests, and has in fact been rotating through the same few dozen members in slightly fewer slots since 2015, whereas the pool of newcomers seems to be close to dried up. Anyone fortunate enough to know enthusiasts of alchemy, art history or mythology had better invite them here, for instance; even a short essay from a "guest lecturer" would make for good reading -- and also for good discussion about how the comic can be subsumed under those concepts, and where it resists most stubbornly, if nothing else.

I've long since come to prefer reading over writing here -- mostly not due to disappointment with the local climate, though; this forum draws astronomers with an interest in linguistics and students of New Testament Greek; what's there not to admire? I do care why others would grow disappointed, though.

For my part, I've long ago realized that I have nothing to tell to most people; does the general audience know or care who I am, what I write about, why I do it? Why should they have to, for that matter? I write for the few who choose to find something in it. (And all others will quickly find how to put members on Ignore.)

This got me thinking. Does anyone know why this forum is so small depsite the comic being so popular. Like, whenever I visit another forum with a webcomic board the Gunnerkrigg thread is usually one of the largest on said board.

Part of the reason might just be that this forum has one subject only, whereas on forums with a different main topic and attached webcomic board, it just so happens that one of the most popular webcomics is the most-discussed. To obtain a meaningful comparison, you should look at how many posts occur on those forums in the time between the release of two pages, and compare it to the average length of a page discussion thread here -- we don't have one monolithic thread kicked about for a year.

Part of the reason might be widespread personal disaffection with this particular forum's climate, or even apathy towards it. You can't resolve this without addressing those you consider responsible, and that's rarely going to happen, as disagreement will only escalate the conflict, and compromise or tolerance being unlikely (or seen as such) gave rise to those problems in the first place.

[philman]

Eh, this forum is specifically for discussion of the GC comic, and nothing else. I don't know if we even have any topics that are not about the comic directly or indirectly.

I always thought the forum seems pretty active compared to other comics forums I have seen (although I admit I haven't seen that many), and I think that is due to its specific focus. Only fans who want to discuss the comic in depth end up coming here, and I guess a lot of readers aren't into that kind of detail for any comic.

Many of the other comics boards I have briefly looked at have a lot of activity in the off-topic sections, but not in the comics section itself. I like that this forum is very focussed on the comic, and I think the lack of off-topic and real-world threads helps to keep the forum friendly. As we have seen before, the only times these forums have erupted into flamewars is when semi-controversial real-world topics such as gay relationships and abusive parents are bought into the comic itself.

[imaginaryfriend]

Feb 12, 2018 11:14:29 GMT philman said:

I always thought the forum seems pretty active compared to other comics forums I have seen (although I admit I haven't seen that many), and I think that is due to its specific focus. Only fans who want to discuss the comic in depth end up coming here, and I guess a lot of readers aren't into that kind of detail for any comic. Many of the other comics boards I have briefly looked at have a lot of activity in the off-topic sections, but not in the comics section itself. I like that this forum is very focussed on the comic, and I think the lack of off-topic and real-world threads helps to keep the forum friendly. As we have seen before, the only times these forums have erupted into flamewars is when semi-controversial real-world topics such as gay relationships and abusive parents are bought into the comic itself.

I have a vague memory of suggesting a general discussion area where people could discuss anything/everything and socialize as something that would help grow the fanbase after the first book came out, maybe. But the forum was already a headache for moderating even then and a drain on Mr. Siddell's time as, if I remember correctly, he took the time to read each and every post back then.

Over the years I remember about one ragequit, one "raid" and maybe two or three permbans (raid excluded) and a few really persistent bots. Relatively speaking, that's nothing. "Flamewars" on this forum are not what would be considered flamewars elsewhere.

Feb 12, 2018 11:14:29 GMT philman said:

I don't know if we even have any topics that are not about the comic directly or indirectly.

Every once in a while someone will use some tangent from the comic discussion to springboard into something else, or create an off-topic thread as a service to forum members. I once started a thread about mass transit horror stories (I forget why) and there was the "self promotion" thread for a couple of examples. The holiday greetings threads don't really count.

I also tried a pm-based discussion about the issues in transhumanism. It went nowhere.

[clover]

Feb 11, 2018 18:27:31 GMT Mitth'raw'nuruodo said:

Feb 11, 2018 1:53:47 GMT faiiry said:

It's interesting that you'd say that, given that you were responsible for the last one, not even a year ago. To the point where Tom even needed to step in.

Funnily enough, it wasn't homophobic, even a year ago. Could you point the part where I cast any derision, or is the act of questioning something now derisive?

[csj]

To keep everything on-topic, the point of contention should not be 'are mods needed?', because if that is the question being asked, the answer as it stands appears to be 'no', based on the majority of experiences and personal examination of the current state of affairs. Can I see future scenarios where mods will be needed? Yes, but not inevitably. For the purposes of a forum solely intended for comic-related discussion rather than community-building (let alone management), the status quo is perfectly functional. If that changes (or the fanbase changes such as to require it) then mods may become essential. The majority consensus seems to be that we're not yet at that point.

Sure, it would be nice to have stickied page threads, or custom emotes, or other such additions. It would also be good to have an alternate means of reacting to technical issues and the like. However, Tom's set things up in a way that everything keeps itself running and a self-policing, self-selective (and isolated) community is probably part of the reasons for its success. If the forum were to be publicised, it could very soon grow well beyond the ability of an individual. Were a proper DDoS (or otherwise) attack launched, one man would probably be ineffectual at resolving it but this forum simply isn't that big a target for it.

Except maybe the next time there's a comic voting scandal.

Basically, the benefits of modding scale up with size and breadth of the forum while the negatives are mostly constant - delegation, communication, recruitment, etc. This topic is not doing a good job at differentiating between features that are 'nice, but trivial,', features that are 'not mandatory but highly beneficial' and those that are actually 'necessary'. Community moderation currently lies somewhere in the middle of the continuum.

Personally, I can see ways low-level mods can be used to add value to the forum in a variety of small ways but;
1. I don't think this forum was intended nor built for anything too big ( It's ProBoards, after all)
2. It's not something worth being alarmist about. At least, not in the present.
3. It would only be one or two people, tasked with minor things and without high-level powers which would limit the benefits of moderation.

I am not Tom, but as far as hypothetical discussion goes, it is an option I would consider going forwards, depending on how important the forum is to the community. There is, after all, the paying community of Patreon as well - one that deserves precedence. I think the discussion has more or less run its course though if people want to go deeper and/or wait for 'tom-senpai' to notice this thread (for the wrong reasons), it can't be helped, I suppose.

I'd rather we started an unofficial site for larger community-building than turn an official forum like this into one. The large homestuck-related section of GKC readers may understand how such things can easily get out of hand and out of control if an official forum grows too big for direct top-down management and gradually left to its own devices.

[Per]

I support the Notable Threads stickied thread idea, which would just require Tom or GKS to sticky a thread by some active member. It could list the wildspec thread, avatar thread, searchable index thread, music thread, Tom's art thread, various edit threads, and so on. We would probably even be able to unsticky the fan art thread, unless Tom wants it there (but it's not very active any more and many old images are probably broken).

[Zox Tomana]

Feb 12, 2018 16:53:31 GMT Per said:

I support the Notable Threads stickied thread idea, which would just require Tom or GKS to sticky a thread by some active member. It could list the wildspec thread, avatar thread, searchable index thread, music thread, Tom's art thread, various edit threads, and so on. We would probably even be able to unsticky the fan art thread, unless Tom wants it there (but it's not very active any more and many old images are probably broken).

Honestly, this is probably all that we ultimately need, just someone to make a list of the threads like wildspec or the boxbot rule (the worst thread ever) so that they can be easily found. Call the post "Recurrent Threads," or "Notable Threads," put up an organized list, and request it to be pinned. Do the same for a small post about how we normally format the comic threads (though I'm convinced that plain mimicry has served perfectly well) and that kinda covers all out bases without really needing to add new mods or quasi-modlike persons.

[philman]

Feb 13, 2018 22:27:37 GMT Zox Tomana said:

Feb 12, 2018 16:53:31 GMT Per said:

I support the Notable Threads stickied thread idea, which would just require Tom or GKS to sticky a thread by some active member. It could list the wildspec thread, avatar thread, searchable index thread, music thread, Tom's art thread, various edit threads, and so on. We would probably even be able to unsticky the fan art thread, unless Tom wants it there (but it's not very active any more and many old images are probably broken).

Honestly, this is probably all that we ultimately need, just someone to make a list of the threads like wildspec or the boxbot rule (the worst thread ever) so that they can be easily found. Call the post "Recurrent Threads," or "Notable Threads," put up an organized list, and request it to be pinned. Do the same for a small post about how we normally format the comic threads (though I'm convinced that plain mimicry has served perfectly well) and that kinda covers all out bases without really needing to add new mods or quasi-modlike persons.

This would require that whoever made that post list of notable threads be active enough to update it now and again, or have some mod with edit powers who can, or at least limit the posts in that thread to ones with useful links. Would be nice to organise the threads in that topic somehow too. Rules threads, art threads, discussion threads, etc.

To be honest I like the idea of a single stickied post with links to all the other ones much better than stickying ALL the general topics, as it would hake half the front page to sticky all of them!

[aline]

Feb 11, 2018 23:57:10 GMT wombat said:

Is there a reason you quoted half my post? I basically went on to agree with what you're advocating for.

It felt a bit like I said "Looks like everybody would prefer a sandwich, so which flavor should we order?" and you answered "We really don't need a pizza, but I think what would be best would possibly be a sandwich". I quoted that part of your post to try and make it obvious that you had all convinced me about the pizza issue and I would like it if we could stop discussing pizza entirely and talk about the sandwich in more detail instead.

Although it looks like everybody would be happy with a salad after all, which is fine by me.

[Per]

What a thread link repository might look like:

Comic resources

The Ultimate Listing Of Comic Episode Threads (should remain stickied)
Searchable database of comics?
comic retrospective
GC Wiki
Word of Tom

Fandom discussion and resources

Wild Speculation
Cool things I only noticed on reread.
Theory: Kat, Robots, and Religion
Gunnerkrigg Avatar thread.
Tom's Symbol (The Crown) (113)
Information on alchemical symbols used in GC
Jones: The Facts (maybe too outdated)
Master List of Unanswered Questions v2

Original artwork

Fanart of Gunnerkrigg: The Official Art Thread
Tom's artwork

Comic edits

I saw an opportunity
The boxbot rule
The partyhat rule
MEANWHILE (in an alternate universe)
GKC = Gunnerkrigg Cookies!
Gunnerkrigg Phernalia Registry
Gunnerkrigg tabletop adventure
Gunnerkrigg/MTG card thread

Community / off-topic

The Introduction Thread
What else do you read in Webcomic Form?
Music?
Themed artwork
IRC chat (unofficial)
General Discussion board?
Shameless Self Promotion Thread


Purposely left out (for now):
Gunnerkrigg Userbars
Forum IM chat? (assumed replaced by IRC thread)
The Four Houses of Gunnerkrigg Court
What is you favourite webcomic? (assumed replaced by more recent webcomics recommendation thread)
Damara (ditto)
The ultimate list of webcomics - off topic thread (ditto)
The Word Count Awards (appears discontinued)
Timeline of Gunnerverse (should be in the wiki?)
Translating Gunnerkrigg Court (Update: Jun 29) (last update 2014, does this have public interest any more?)
Gunnerkrigg Court in Other Languages (ditto)
What other things are GKC fans interested in? (oldish general recommendations thread)
Master List of Unanswered Questions
BoxBot the Official Fan Club (terrible)
Gun Runner Rick
Questions to whoever feels like answering. (standing in for "Questions for Tom" as a service to non-fanatical readers, but long dead)
GC Refernce (compilation of GC references in other webcomics, much outdated)
Dream of Gunnerkrigg Court (not significant enough?)
Random Crazy Florida Dream (older dream thread)

Lots of topical polls
Various short and/or obsolete discussion or speculation threads
A handful of contentious gender/relationship/sexuality threads (maybe not encourage restarting these)
Livestreams
Volume releases, merchandise, cons, awards, interviews (should be linked to from Word of Tom where appropriate)
Individual personal project threads (e.g. cosplay, cooking)
Locked "Questions for Tom" threads (should be linked to from Word of Tom)
Minecraft / World of Text threads (long dead?)

[keef]

Feb 14, 2018 14:59:06 GMT Per said:

What a thread link repository might look like:

SPOILER: Click to show

Comic resources

The Ultimate Listing Of Comic Episode Threads (should remain stickied)
Searchable database of comics?
comic retrospective
GC Wiki
Word of Tom

Fandom discussion and resources

Wild Speculation
Cool things I only noticed on reread.
Theory: Kat, Robots, and Religion
Gunnerkrigg Avatar thread.
Tom's Symbol (The Crown) (113)
Information on alchemical symbols used in GC
Jones: The Facts (maybe too outdated)
Master List of Unanswered Questions v2

Original artwork

Fanart of Gunnerkrigg: The Official Art Thread
Tom's artwork

Comic edits

I saw an opportunity
The boxbot rule
The partyhat rule
MEANWHILE (in an alternate universe)
GKC = Gunnerkrigg Cookies!
Gunnerkrigg Phernalia Registry
Gunnerkrigg tabletop adventure
Gunnerkrigg/MTG card thread

Community / off-topic

The Introduction Thread
What else do you read in Webcomic Form?
Music?
Themed artwork
IRC chat (unofficial)
General Discussion board?
Shameless Self Promotion Thread


Purposely left out (for now):
Gunnerkrigg Userbars
Forum IM chat? (assumed replaced by IRC thread)
The Four Houses of Gunnerkrigg Court
What is you favourite webcomic? (assumed replaced by more recent webcomics recommendation thread)
Damara (ditto)
The ultimate list of webcomics - off topic thread (ditto)
The Word Count Awards (appears discontinued)
Timeline of Gunnerverse (should be in the wiki?)
Translating Gunnerkrigg Court (Update: Jun 29) (last update 2014, does this have public interest any more?)
Gunnerkrigg Court in Other Languages (ditto)
What other things are GKC fans interested in? (oldish general recommendations thread)
Master List of Unanswered Questions
BoxBot the Official Fan Club (terrible)
Gun Runner Rick
Questions to whoever feels like answering. (standing in for "Questions for Tom" as a service to non-fanatical readers, but long dead)
GC Refernce (compilation of GC references in other webcomics, much outdated)
Dream of Gunnerkrigg Court (not significant enough?)
Random Crazy Florida Dream (older dream thread)

Lots of topical polls
Various short and/or obsolete discussion or speculation threads
A handful of contentious gender/relationship/sexuality threads (maybe not encourage restarting these)
Livestreams
Volume releases, merchandise, cons, awards, interviews (should be linked to from Word of Tom where appropriate)
Individual personal project threads (e.g. cosplay, cooking)
Locked "Questions for Tom" threads (should be linked to from Word of Tom)
Minecraft / World of Text threads (long dead?)

I was halfway making almost the same list, although not this complete. Looks great!

SPOILER: Click to show

maybe keep "the boxbot rule" behind spoilers... You know how sensitive Tom is.

Edit:

Mentioned a lot lately: Maybe the sticky should contain your posting guideline for the page thread:

Feb 7, 2018 9:13:38 GMT Per said:

Dialogue from the comic; if none, a sound effect or similar; if none, Tom's comment; if none, a characterization or summary of content.

Edit 2

Translating Gunnerkrigg Court (Update: Jun 29) (last update 2014, does this have public interest any more?)
Gunnerkrigg Court in Other Languages (ditto)

There is a new General Translation Thread. Like all translation threads nowadays (some more active than others) it resides on the Fan Project Board.

[GK Sierra]

Dear Gunnerkrigg Court Fourm Members and fellow readers of Tom's fine comic:

I apologize for being distant and/or hard to reach, I must confess that life somewhat overtook me and I only tap in to read the rest of this most amazing chronicle every few months now. This forum for the most part is highly civil, there has been only one instance of seriously uncivil behavior during my absence, and I have deleted the posts, which involved some regrettable homophobia. The user has since ceased to post, indicating that abusive language and attitudes can gain little foothold here as we are all readers of an extremely pure and kawaii comic about young girls attending a magical mystery school and thus our audience is pre-selected for kindness.

Please note that for quicker moderation it is best to email me at [e-mail] and/or text me at 831-359-6657 after putting in the moderation report.

As always I remain your humble servant, and grateful to Tom for providing such an artfully crafted and wholesome tale. I check my email regularly and my texts even more regularly so hopefully next time I can be quicker on the draw.

Yours truly,

GKS

[jda]

The world continues to spin, pup.

[jda]

BTW, I dont find any other meta-thread to put this, but... gunnerkrigg.com have been down intermittently several times some day in a row.

[imaginaryfriend]

I've been periodically getting connection_refused errors for the last three weeks or so but it has always responded normally if I wait a bit and try again.