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Post by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2013 3:33:00 GMT
PLEASE read this before commenting on this thread  if you cannot bring yourself to browse the whole thread. Thanks! Disclaimer: This speculation is by no means entirely mine. It enfolds a lot of ideas other forum members have suggested, and I have added my own interpretations. Premise: I believe that given the facts that we possess, it would be plausible for Kat to become a god, in the Coyote sense of the word, by the end of the story. This would be extremely long-term. Evidence (hang with me for a minute): According to Coyote, who is the only god we have seen so far (though Tom has stated there are others), what is required to become a deity? Apparently, just an etheric connection and many believers (similar to the Small Gods concept). Tom has stated that Kat does not currently have an etheric form or connection, which we can confirm is still almost certainly true: Annie or any other ether-sensitive person would have remarked on it. However, she might develop one as robots start believing in her as a quasi-supernatural being, as they have already. This would require robots to have souls, though. We know they did not have souls at the beginning of the comic (or so I interpreted this page: who would know better about souls than Muut?). The suggestion has already been made on the forum that the robots are in the process of developing one: as Sky Watcher said, something has changed, and they're becoming more introspective and perhaps 'human'. Furthermore, Tom has confirmed that it's possible to develop souls ( in his particularly cryptic manner - thanks mglvna). It also requires a large number of the believers to die (so that the 'beliefs' can be imprinted upon the Ether). This process isn't well understood yet in-comic, but various suggestions in this thread have been made about the manner of this. Particularly, a theory has recently surfaced (largely courtesy of Brother_Spartacus) that 'true death' for a robot is defined by the damage being irreparable even for Kat (which explains why a biological bird wing can 'die a true death', but nothing else has yet). This distinction could also be a false dichotomy created by Robot's proselytizing, in which case 'any death' would do. If it is important, though, it explains the importance of Kat's experiments in biological robots to the larger plot. Let's stretch this to extremes and examine the results, shall we? It is a wildspec theory, after all. If this leads to Kat literally ascending to be a robot deity as robots start believing in her, however implausible, that would actually fit really well with many facts already known. For example: - This would explain Tom's purpose in having Robot establish a cult around her (which, on the same page, also seems to worry Shadow). That is certainly leading somewhere in the comics, and why not here? Another loose end that it would tie up is what the Court is doing with all of the ether they have collected: trying to make man into god. Once again, Coyote is laughing behind our backs as he speaks the literal truth garbed in misleading language.
- This would fit neatly with Kat's previous rejection of etheric and magical things in favor of science: now she would BE an etheric being, and have a major identity crisis – science/magic, human/posthuman, etc. Notice that she does not entirely encourage Robot’s cult. This transformation could not entirely be under her control, but instead stem from their beliefs, which she has no control over. It’s not necessarily a voluntary process to become a god. Interestingly, this also sets up a tragic aspect to the relationship between Annie and Kat, as they drift more towards the Forest and Court respectively.
- Several actions in the past have tentatively linked Kat and the idea of a ‘divine creator’. First and perhaps foremost, Kat has been able to return a robot from ‘death’. This is a classic messianic trait. Second, the tic-tocs were said to be created by a ‘divine being’ to watch over the robots. Kat is currently creating something that seems to look like a tic-toc, as befits her bird motif. It has been suggested before that time travel could be involved: Kat could send the tic-tocs back to a point even before Diego. However, another possibility exists, though it’s much more mind-bending: Jones has said that (if Coyote is correct) the human mind could cause something to exist before it is even created, which has barely even been explored. Could that be the case here?
- Further discussion of the Tic-Tocs, thanks to calpal: The cables entering the Angel's eyes look like optical feeds. What if the Tic-Tocs, the Thousand Eyes, are the eyes of the Angel? It would doubly explain why Zimmy couldn't handle having Kat look at her. Again, time shenanigans could explain how they exist before the Angel does. And furthermore, it adds a literal dimension to "created to watch over us".
- This gives an interesting possibility for what Zimmy’s vision of machine-Kat is (recently seen again). We know Zimmy may have some ability to warp time. If her vision of RoboKat is really a premonition of sorts, then it quite literally matches Robot’s ‘prophecies’: a robot-like angel, with a bird (either a pigeon or tic-toc) to match. Again, the bird motif with the angel. This could either be metaphorical or a literal depiction of what she would look like in the future. Furthermore, this could give a rationale to the confusing name of 'Divine' for the chapter - either Zimmy has 'divined' the future, or Kat is a 'divine' being (noted by Lightice). Or both. It's also possible that, by overwriting reality, Zimmy causes Kat to ascend. EDIT: last possibility is now seeming likely. EDITEDIT: apotheosis sadly averted...for now...
- This gives a possibly semi-benevolent (or at least plausible) reason for Coyote's otherwise confusing insistence of telling Annie his Great Secret: so she could help Kat deal with her newfound godhood, or at least comprehend it. It also would tie the Secret into the story more, as it has barely been explored in-universe.
- Kat seems to embody an idea prevalent in the Court: scientific rationalism even in the face of magic (I mean, come on, they call it 'etheric sciences' for a reason). She could represent the counterpoint to Coyote Himself, just as He represents the Forest's characteristics: impulsive, instinctual behaviors as a front hiding an ulterior motive. Furthermore (as zimmyhoo noticed) Coyote created the Glass-Eyed Men, just as Kat may 'create' the ensouled robots (or 'compleat', to be more precise).
- Furthermore, today's page shows that Kat now has the ability to shape the robots into flesh. We do not know whether this power will persist after Zimmingham, though the nightmarish, Lovecraftian results do not bode well for the more optimistic variants of this theory. This may also be, ironically, partially due to Kat 'borrowing' Zimmy's own power (time will tell). This is starting to have echoes of another terrifying religion about fleshy robots...
- If the long-term conclusion ended with Kat as god of the Court and Annie overthrowing or replacing Coyote, it would complete the long-term parallels between the Kat/Annie and Court/Forest interactions (like, for example, this one). This would be so awesome, and oddly fitting: a properly epic ending to Gunnerkrigg.
Anyone familiar with Gunnerkrigg would attest to the futility of trying to predict the future. Regardless, if Tom decided to take the story in this direction, the foundation would already have been laid. It has also been brought to my attention that a similar theory had been independently advanced elsewhere by calpal nearly a year before mine, though we had highlighted different aspects of the effects this would have on the story (I talked more about the effects it would have on Kat, while he talked about what would have to happen before such a transformation could occur). Check it out here! By decree of me, those who believe in this speculation are henceforth christened the Cult of Kat. Userbars are available, if you want to display your allegiance. PM me if you want one.
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 13, 2013 4:01:14 GMT
Cool theory... um... do you mean to say she'd gain etheric powers?
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2013 4:04:27 GMT
Cool theory... um... do you mean to say she'd gain etheric powers? Yes. It's a possibility. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 13, 2013 4:08:44 GMT
I haven't really considered Zimmy's vision much... but that is something interesting to think about. I just assumed at the time that she was simply seeing things, but she's already proved that the things she sees have meaning. This is a pretty mind blowing theory... it seems possible. Just long term, as you've claimed |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 13, 2013 4:17:35 GMT
The transformation might make a pretty neat parallel to what happened with Aly as well.
Wonder how much of a stir it would cause in the court, especially with her parents.
That'd be a heck of a daddy-daughter conversation.
Kinda curious, where's the bird in zimmyvision Kat ? Seems there's wings and such sprouted everywhere, but I don't quite see any birds.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2013 4:22:34 GMT
The transformation might make a pretty neat parallel to what happened with Aly as well. Wonder how much of a stir it would cause in the court, especially with her parents. That'd be a heck of a daddy-daughter conversation. Kinda curious, where's the bird in zimmyvision Kat ? Seems there's wings and such sprouted everywhere, but I don't quite see any birds. Kat is the main shape (with things that could be wings behind her). The bird is sitting on top of her head (at the time, I had thought it to be the pigeon that Zimmy sees on Kat's head). I interpreted the pointy shape near the top (in the center, reaching down to Kat's nose) as a beak. From there, one can see the eyes. The wings could be any one (or all) of the lines flowing outward from there. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 13, 2013 4:35:27 GMT
Cool theory... um... do you mean to say she'd gain etheric powers? Yes. It's a possibility. I do recall that scene where Annie took Kat to the roof to show off an etheric technique. Annie said you had to meditate... and Kat started concentrating on a nearby air conditioning unit, taking it apart in her mind and seeing how its parts fit together. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2013 4:40:53 GMT
I do recall that scene where Annie took Kat to the roof to show off an etheric technique. Annie said you had to meditate... and Kat started concentrating on a nearby air conditioning unit, taking it apart in her mind and seeing how its parts fit together. And how to integrate them with neurons, if memory serves. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 13, 2013 16:49:32 GMT
I do recall that scene where Annie took Kat to the roof to show off an etheric technique. Annie said you had to meditate... and Kat started concentrating on a nearby air conditioning unit, taking it apart in her mind and seeing how its parts fit together. And how to integrate them with neurons, if memory serves. ...what's Kats IQ?! |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2013 16:55:47 GMT
Currently: Very high. Future: Possibly unlimited, if she discovers how to integrate electronic and biologic components? |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 13, 2013 20:27:02 GMT
Kat's gonna make the IQ test obsolete.
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Post by takesailorhunt on Nov 13, 2013 23:57:10 GMT
Cool theory... um... do you mean to say she'd gain etheric powers? Yes. It's a possibility. Yes, 'tis a cool theory, but Kat doesn't seem nearly as comfortable/experienced with the ether as, say Annie does. It would be interesting to see how it all would play out. |
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Post by keef on Nov 14, 2013 14:48:38 GMT
I thought she would become the psychopomp of robots, as Muut and the others "do not deal in electrical appliances". Then from the moment she changes this angel would always have existed, so she could indeed have created the TicTocs. But I really like the idea of a Robot God, and the roll you think Coyote will play, although I don't think Coyotes reasons are benevolent. Actually Small Gods is my favourite Pratchett, but Neil Gaimans American Gods is based on a similar idea. I think Toms writing is on their level at the moment, would be great if he made as much money with it. ( My psychopomp idea was not as original as I thought, scanning trough the Fanart I found this.) |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 14, 2013 19:18:51 GMT
Actually Small Gods is my favourite Pratchett, but Neil Gaimans American Gods is based on a similar idea. I think Toms writing is on their level at the moment, would be great if he made as much money with it. Personally, I think that he is writing above their level: they never characterized characters as deeply nor made a plot as intricate. But every writers' talents lie in different places, and each person values certain aspects above others. EDIT: I did not know, until @gksierra mentioned it, that Pratchett has Alzheimers. I respect him more now. Please ignore that portion of my previous comment. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 14, 2013 19:28:32 GMT
Tom is good with plotting and dialogue, but I don't know if he topples Pratchett. Pratchett is beyond clever, even in the face of crippling of neuro-degenerative disease. I really hope he lives long enough to complete another Aching story.
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Post by philman on Nov 14, 2013 20:02:13 GMT
Tom is good with plotting and dialogue, but I don't know if he topples Pratchett. Pratchett is beyond clever, even in the face of crippling of neuro-degenerative disease. I really hope he lives long enough to complete another Aching story. I think he's said somewhere (can't find where) that Tiffany's story is complete now. She might show up again later as a side character in future books, but I think a full book about her again is unlikely. I love Pratchett, but I think he relies too much on Vimes in a lot of his more recent books, Vimes is great but doesn't really have any character development left. And I think comparing Tom, a cartoonist, to Pratchett, a novelist, is a bit of a tough comparison. It's like comparing a classical cellist to a rock guitarist, good at different things. Gaiman is a more apt comparison I guess, given the Sandman series, but again, different. Sandman was about the mysticism encountering humanity, Gunnergkrigg is about Humanity encountering the etheric world. So very different points of view. But you are right, Small Gods, American Gods and Coyote's Great Secret are all very similar, the only difference being that in Gunnerkrigg they are powerful whether people still believe in them or not. |
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Post by crater on Nov 14, 2013 20:20:43 GMT
Tom is good with plotting and dialogue, but I don't know if he topples Pratchett. Pratchett is beyond clever, even in the face of crippling of neuro-degenerative disease. I really hope he lives long enough to complete another Aching story. No, with the last of his life and mind he must make a sequel to the Long Earth |
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Post by philman on Nov 14, 2013 20:28:22 GMT
Tom is good with plotting and dialogue, but I don't know if he topples Pratchett. Pratchett is beyond clever, even in the face of crippling of neuro-degenerative disease. I really hope he lives long enough to complete another Aching story. No, with the last of his life and mind he must make a sequel to the Long Earth You mean this sequel? www.amazon.co.uk/The-Long-War-Earth/dp/0857520113 |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 22:01:40 GMT
Epic, indeed. That really is the right word. I can see that storyline in my mind, tender and innocent Kat growing into a mad-professor-cum-robot-godess, a big freaking battle, lots of dead, fire elemental roaming wild with the beasts of the forest... I was going to continue from this, but it would have brought you all down so badly, so so badly that I just couldn't do it.
Oh, but one final word: where is Anthony in all this!! Nobody has yet counted him in anyhow. And that would be difficult, as we know so little of what he is doing that many seem to think he has simply disappeared because he is so disinterested in anything about the court. But that ain't true. He is doing something and he will intervene somehow.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 14, 2013 22:19:27 GMT
Epic, indeed. That really is the right word. I can see that storyline in my mind, tender and innocent Kat growing into a mad-professor-cum-robot-godess, a big freaking battle, lots of dead, fire elemental roaming wild with the beasts of the forest... I was going to continue from this, but it would have brought you all down so badly, so so badly that I just couldn't do it. Oh, but one final word: where is Anthony in all this!! Nobody has yet counted him in anyhow. And that would be difficult, as we know so little of what he is doing that many seem to think he has simply disappeared because he is so disinterested in anything about the court. But that ain't true. He is doing something and he will intervene somehow. I had anticipated the two of them still remaining connected, but you're right, your version might be more accurate (#sadness). Or maybe not (#optimism). And Anthony is the wild card here. Agreed. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 14, 2013 23:42:43 GMT
Tom is good with plotting and dialogue, but I don't know if he topples Pratchett. Pratchett is beyond clever, even in the face of crippling of neuro-degenerative disease. I really hope he lives long enough to complete another Aching story. No, with the last of his life and mind he must make a sequel to the Long Earth The first book was haunting. The sequel left me wishing Pratchett had just wrote the book himself. It was obviously more of his partner in the latter work, and his prose was stale custard compared to Pratchett. I'm glad to hear that the Tiffany storyline will be finished. And yes, I agree, comparing Tom to a veteran novelist who has been knighted by the Queen is completely unfair. Dodger is another non-Discworld book of his that is absolutely fantastic. |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 15, 2013 0:51:05 GMT
I think the real wild card is what the Court is secretly up to. There's something quite nefarious going on. And Kat is outside of that and the Court are amazingly really not particularly aware of her.
Perhaps it will be Kat and Annie vs Court and Forest
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Post by zimmyhoo on Nov 15, 2013 1:53:18 GMT
Yay, theories! I like this - the contrast between Kat and her mom has been bugging me for a while, and there's no way that Zimmy's vision of Kat isn't important. However, I have to ask, in this scenario of there being two gods created out of the imaginations of souled beings - Coyote and Kat - what role does Annie play? The peaceful, stable situation would be that she acts as a medium between the Forest and the Court, but from a literary standpoint, I hardly believe that the interaction between the two sides of the valley would have no conflict. Already, with the usurpation of Annie as the 'official' medium by Smitty, the Court doesn't seem to keen on Surma's kid being their liaison. Can't really guess why, unless it has something with the fact that Surma ended up enamouring Renard. I think the real wild card is what the Court is secretly up to. There's something quite nefarious going on. And Kat is outside of that and the Court are amazingly really not particularly aware of her. Perhaps it will be Kat and Annie vs Court and Forest We still don't know Coyote's intentions - and those are going to be a really wild card. He *is* going to be involved in the final plot, no way around that. If anything it's going to be the Court vs the Forest; Kat and Annie will just be caught in the crossfire. However, I would not be surprised if they ultimately align themselves, or are aligned, with opposing sides of the ravine. There are several many (this is Gunnerkrigg, who am I kidding) loose plot ends which could easily be related. As mentioned above, Anthony is still a wild card, although I'm not sure how important he'll be in the long run. One side of me says there's little way that he could have anything to do with anything, and the other side says that if Tom's kept us in the dark about him for this long, whatever he's up to is going to be really damn big. Likely, he himself will have little to do, but whatever reason he's absent for will be vastly important - possibly he's on a forced exile by the Court to keep some fact hidden? What if he was privy to information about Jeanne without breaching the tomb? I don't know. It is interesting how under-the-radar Kat's flying. You have to think that Anja and Don are using their leverage with the Court to keep her unnoticed, or at least unhindered. Regardless, I believe bad things are going to happen to Kat - at the paws of Coyote, at the hands of the Court, or at the hands (paws?) of both. I can't tell you why, but the obvious distinction between Annie and Kat is growing - Annie is only her scepticism and coolness away from being heavily manipulated by Coyote, and the Court seems to be withdrawing their support from her. We still don't know much about Surma, but I would bet that there's a lot more to the Renard incident than we know - I really think that trapping Renard in the Court was not Surma's idea, nor her wish. If that's true, the precedent for Carvers being used by other is there. Again, we don't know what Anthony is up to, and that probably will shed light on all this. What I'm trying to get at is that possibly Kat will come to the attention of the Court, be separated from Annie, leading her deeper into the dark corners of the Forest, and allowing Kat to be shaped by the Court to their own ends. If she somehow comes to the top of court as well as being etherically deitized by the robots, the parallel between Coyote, a god who created shadow men, came to frolic 'together' with the existing powers, and is now at their head, and Kat, a god who creates robots, was something something i think i lost myself might be there there. Wow, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I get a gut feeling that Kat is going to be corrupted. If she resents/distrusts Coyote, the conflict between Court/Kat and Coyote/Annie is there. I really don't know what I'm doing with this post. It's late, I'm tired, and nobody understands what I'm trying to say. Bluh bluh, here's my braindump. |
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Post by SerenaJo on Nov 15, 2013 2:21:19 GMT
If she does ultimately become some kind of robot goddess, that vision of her isn't necessarily evil. For all we know, that is just what a being that's supremely powerful/kind/beautiful/etc would look like to them.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 15, 2013 3:12:40 GMT
If she does ultimately become some kind of robot goddess, that vision of her isn't necessarily evil. For all we know, that is just what a being that's supremely powerful/kind/beautiful/etc would look like to them. The Zimmyvision never looked evil to me. Scary and alien, maybe. Just not human anymore. Tom's text on that page, though...refers to here ( last panel), I believe. [Shiver] |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 15, 2013 3:26:15 GMT
No, with the last of his life and mind he must make a sequel to the Long Earth The first book was haunting. The sequel left me wishing Pratchett had just wrote the book himself. It was obviously more of his partner in the latter work, and his prose was stale custard compared to Pratchett. I'm glad to hear that the Tiffany storyline will be finished. And yes, I agree, comparing Tom to a veteran novelist who has been knighted by the Queen is completely unfair. Dodger is another non-Discworld book of his that is absolutely fantastic. Just looked up the Long Earth. Now on the top of my list to read. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 15, 2013 3:27:00 GMT
Yay, theories! I like this - the contrast between Kat and her mom has been bugging me for a while, and there's no way that Zimmy's vision of Kat isn't important. However, I have to ask, in this scenario of there being two gods created out of the imaginations of souled beings - Coyote and Kat - what role does Annie play? The peaceful, stable situation would be that she acts as a medium between the Forest and the Court, but from a literary standpoint, I hardly believe that the interaction between the two sides of the valley would have no conflict. Already, with the usurpation of Annie as the 'official' medium by Smitty, the Court doesn't seem to keen on Surma's kid being their liaison. Can't really guess why, unless it has something with the fact that Surma ended up enamouring Renard. I think the real wild card is what the Court is secretly up to. There's something quite nefarious going on. And Kat is outside of that and the Court are amazingly really not particularly aware of her. Perhaps it will be Kat and Annie vs Court and Forest We still don't know Coyote's intentions - and those are going to be a really wild card. He *is* going to be involved in the final plot, no way around that. If anything it's going to be the Court vs the Forest; Kat and Annie will just be caught in the crossfire. However, I would not be surprised if they ultimately align themselves, or are aligned, with opposing sides of the ravine. There are several many (this is Gunnerkrigg, who am I kidding) loose plot ends which could easily be related. As mentioned above, Anthony is still a wild card, although I'm not sure how important he'll be in the long run. One side of me says there's little way that he could have anything to do with anything, and the other side says that if Tom's kept us in the dark about him for this long, whatever he's up to is going to be really damn big. Likely, he himself will have little to do, but whatever reason he's absent for will be vastly important - possibly he's on a forced exile by the Court to keep some fact hidden? What if he was privy to information about Jeanne without breaching the tomb? I don't know. It is interesting how under-the-radar Kat's flying. You have to think that Anja and Don are using their leverage with the Court to keep her unnoticed, or at least unhindered. Regardless, I believe bad things are going to happen to Kat - at the paws of Coyote, at the hands of the Court, or at the hands (paws?) of both. I can't tell you why, but the obvious distinction between Annie and Kat is growing - Annie is only her scepticism and coolness away from being heavily manipulated by Coyote, and the Court seems to be withdrawing their support from her. We still don't know much about Surma, but I would bet that there's a lot more to the Renard incident than we know - I really think that trapping Renard in the Court was not Surma's idea, nor her wish. If that's true, the precedent for Carvers being used by other is there. Again, we don't know what Anthony is up to, and that probably will shed light on all this. What I'm trying to get at is that possibly Kat will come to the attention of the Court, be separated from Annie, leading her deeper into the dark corners of the Forest, and allowing Kat to be shaped by the Court to their own ends. If she somehow comes to the top of court as well as being etherically deitized by the robots, the parallel between Coyote, a god who created shadow men, came to frolic 'together' with the existing powers, and is now at their head, and Kat, a god who creates robots, was something something i think i lost myself might be there there. Wow, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I get a gut feeling that Kat is going to be corrupted. If she resents/distrusts Coyote, the conflict between Court/Kat and Coyote/Annie is there. I really don't know what I'm doing with this post. It's late, I'm tired, and nobody understands what I'm trying to say. Bluh bluh, here's my braindump. You also make many valid points, responses below: "However, I have to ask, in this scenario of there being two gods created out of the imaginations of souled beings - Coyote and Kat - what role does Annie play?" Good question. Other than the dark horse possibility I mentioned of her ousting Coyote or otherwise being a leader of the Forest (which Renard was considered, of a sort, because he had Coyote's favor), I have no idea  your guess is as good as mine. Hmmm...I wonder...what if Coyote wanted her to accept some gift, for some reason? Depending on the specifics, that could tie some of these up neatly. "I really think that trapping Renard in the Court was not Surma's idea, nor her wish." Why? I mean, it doesn't fit quite with the maternal Surma we see in Annie's flashbacks, but those could be subjective. She may also have changed as a person since all that. She certainly didn't mean for him to kill anyone, though. I don't think anyone but Coyote would have seen that coming. "Annie is only her skepticism and coolness away from being heavily manipulated by Coyote" True, and Kat adds that skepticism and coolness. However, I still see Coyote as a quite amoral character that could have a role other than corruptor. Or perhaps I meant the word 'beyond'. Remember, he has also been a teacher of lessons that have no apparent connection to corruption whatsoever (especially in The Old Dog's Tricks). There's a reason that TV Tropes lists him under both 'Jerkass' and 'Trickster Mentor': he has characteristics of both. "The parallel between Coyote, a god who created shadow men...and Kat, a god who creates robots, was something something i think i lost myself might be there there." Well, the first half of this sentence (Coyote/Kat parallels) is full of clarity and insight, and is such a good point I'm adding it to my original post if you don't mind. The second half, not so much |
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Post by warrl on Nov 15, 2013 3:29:51 GMT
Okay, this quite possibly belongs in Wild Spec...
In the Reynardine crisis, which intensified the conflict between Court and Forest, Surma and Anthony attempted to form a third course between the two. But they didn't have what it takes to succeed - Anthony, the science side, wasn't etheric enough, while Surma, the etheric side, was too closely bound to the Court. They feared (possibly with cause) that the Court would no longer abide their presence, and even Surma made enough enemies in the Forest that going there would have been bad for her (let alone for Anthony who had never had any friends there).
There will be another crisis in the relationship in a few years, but this time the Forest's Medium - who by then will have already beaten most of the Forest on its own terms, and also know her own power - will join forces with the Robots' Angel who will be the master of etheric programming and have a server farm several hundred times more powerful than her mom's computer, plus the robots will do what she tells them to. The two demand that Forest and Court follow a third course; neither side will be able to resist that demand alone, and working together would be giving in to it.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 15, 2013 3:34:53 GMT
Okay, this quite possibly belongs in Wild Spec... In the Reynardine crisis, which intensified the conflict between Court and Forest, Surma and Anthony attempted to form a third course between the two. But they didn't have what it takes to succeed - Anthony, the science side, wasn't etheric enough, while Surma, the etheric side, was too closely bound to the Court. They feared (possibly with cause) that the Court would no longer abide their presence, and even Surma made enough enemies in the Forest that going there would have been bad for her (let alone for Anthony who had never had any friends there). There will be another crisis in the relationship in a few years, but this time the Forest's Medium - who by then will have already beaten most of the Forest on its own terms, and also know her own power - will join forces with the Robots' Angel who will be the master of etheric programming and have a server farm several hundred times more powerful than her mom's computer, plus the robots will do what she tells them to. The two demand that Forest and Court follow a third course; neither side will be able to resist that demand alone, and working together would be giving in to it. See, this is nice because it's more upbeat than most of our other suggestions and yet still not impossible. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 15, 2013 15:24:42 GMT
If she does ultimately become some kind of robot goddess, that vision of her isn't necessarily evil. For all we know, that is just what a being that's supremely powerful/kind/beautiful/etc would look like to them. The Zimmyvision never looked evil to me. Scary and alien, maybe. Just not human anymore. Tom's text on that page, though...refers to here ( last panel), I believe. [Shiver] I have to add that I neither meant Kat goes evil, just that her obvious potential to small-mindedness escalates combined with ever growing power and missionary vision as she digs deeper and deeper into the God-robotics. That would, as you say, draw her more and more inhumane, and let me say, un-animal (is there a word for this), or unnatural, but in any event losing her sensitivity and compassion, becoming more and more rational, which might have disastrous consequences (the battle I foresee). Your theory just made me see in Kat a tragic character that I had not formerly perceived. And maybe it's just this that brought Anthony, another tragic character in this story, in my mind again. |
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if you cannot bring yourself to browse the whole thread. Thanks!
your guess is as good as mine. Hmmm...I wonder...what if Coyote wanted her to accept some gift, for some reason? Depending on the specifics, that could tie some of these up neatly.