Gunnerkrigg/MTG card thread

[Nnelg]

Well, I'm not much of a MTG geek, but I know a bit; and I know a bit more about designing such things in general, so I'd like to help on this one.


The first thing I'll say is that you're suffering from 'color overload'. I know that it's hard, but the rule really needs to be one color/card, with two being the absolute max.

A better way to express a well-developed, varied personality would be to have multiple cards for the same character, with a different color set on each.


One other thing which I would suggest, but which may be more a matter of opinion, is that you have bicolor cards use either color, as opposed to both. (At least for summoning costs, so that more people can use it in their deck. (I know I've seen this done with Magic cards before...))



PS:
I don't think Annie and Surma would be White. They're nice girls and all, but they aren't exactly going to go crusading for justice anytime soon. (In other words, they're CG, not LG.)

[http404error]

What are you using to make these? I recommend Magic Set Editor, it does a good job.

Also, is this going to be just posting cards for the heck of it, or are we going to coordinate the GKC Magic Set here?

ADD:

Surma and Antimony provide unique problems, as they are associated for the Court for sure, but couldn't be called anything but red-aligned.

Schemes aren't actually a thing... just for a casual format. It's been a long time since Morph was a thing too...

[GK Sierra]

Damn, that's some tricky mana combos do deploy a planeswalker. I've heard of dual decks, but... triple decks?

[Nnelg]

Dec 31, 2012 6:33:34 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

In this case I intended all the different colors to summon and to use specific powers as a complication to provide balance and to make the use of the main characters something that can't be done casually; some thought about how they can be summoned and used effectively would be required. I think the special abilities they offer still make them attractive but I will defer to other people who may be more up on game balance these days.

Um, isn't the whole point of custom novelty cards like this moot if they're hard to play?

I mean, these don't have to be powerful cards, do they? They'd only ever be used for casual play; so they needn't be well-balanced anyways. (To the contrary, having them overpowered might make it more fun, since your opponent would have them too.)

Dec 31, 2012 6:33:34 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

They do have direct damage capabilities and an association with fire but as mediums they deal with the dead and diplomacy, and that should make them either black or white too. I don't think black would apply (unless maybe someone wants to make a Surma Carver variant) so I think that means red and white. As you can see I've added blue as well, but I'll watch and see what other variations other people come up with.

Meh, I think you're being a tad stringent with the traditional definitions of each color. But what do I know, I'm just a ghost non-MTG geek.

Still, the fact remains that any character that is developed well enough will inevitably cross into nearly all sectors of a discrete classification system such as this. The only way to deal with it is to just decide based on what best defines the character.

For Annie/Surma, that isn't their medium skills. It's their personality. And White seems to me (as a non-MTG geek) to represent an ordered personality. I guess that could describe Book 1 Annie, but it wouldn't work for current Annie nor would it apply well to Surma.


But, as I said I'm not an MTG geek.
So, feel free to blatantly ignore what I've said and do what you think is best. ;D

[AluK]

Vintage MTG used to have these crazier color combos - nowadays, they're not as common anymore. Nowadays, multicolor cards over 2 colors mostly follow a few rules:

- With, IIRC, 3 exceptions, they're either 3 or 5 colors;
- When they're 3 colors, they're almost always "Arc" styled (e.g. U/B/R, B/R/G, R/G/W, etc.) because such combinations aren't as conflicting as "Wedge" styled, that include 2 opposite colors.
- Color weight above 3 colors tends to be balanced - it's either one of each color, two of each color, etc.

I can't really see Annie and Surma having White. They're good people, but all colors have good people (Black included, if you can tolerate a bit of egocentrism) and their somewhat collected nature and medium work can be totally explained by the rational-minded Blue or the Zen-like nature of Green (think Elves).

I'd wager that pre-Gillitie Annie was more UR, post-Gillitie 1RG. Surma's a hard one, as we haven't seen much about her, but probably something similar to post-Gillitie Annie, probably one colorless higher (and stronger).

Kat is totally a Blue artificer with an ability like "Whenever an Artifact comes into play you can pay 1 and buy a card".

Eggers is GW knight with flying, vigilance and first-strike. Jones an indestructible artifact.

Coyote's a 3UBR Planeswalker with 7 loyalty:

[http404error]

AluK, Your understanding of multicolor seems to be derived entirely from one set, Shards of Alara. In fact right now, they're printing a set that revolves around the 10 2-color pairs. You are correct, however, in that the shards often make more sense than the wedges due to color philosophy, and there are many more cards in the shards than the wedges due to Alara being entirely built around them. I still love Lightning Angel though.

Now that says little about the construction of decks. Decks have ranged from any combination of colors, in mono-color, two, three, four, and five color decks of every imaginable kind. For example, Green, White, and Black have very good token-making cards, and thus token decks can follow that combination despite the fact that there is no single card that uses all the deck's colors.

White is not necessarily the color of good! It is the color of teamwork, anti-individualism, community. Black is selfishness, individualism, even at times sacrifice of others for the self.

ADD:
This article is very useful!
wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Color_Pie

[AluK]

Dec 31, 2012 18:09:55 GMT http404error said:

AluK, Your understanding of multicolor seems to be derived entirely from one set, Shards of Alara. In fact right now, they're printing a set that revolves around the 10 2-color pairs. You are correct, however, in that the shards often make more sense than the wedges due to color philosophy, and there are many more cards in the shards than the wedges due to Alara being entirely built around them. I still love Lightning Angel though.

Actually, I was talking about most of modern Magic (say, from 7th forwards). Besides Apocalypse, there was no set with any specific push on Wedge pairings, whereas we had at least two whole blocks focused on Arcs (Invasion and Shards of Alara) and a few sets/blocks focused on simple Ally/Enemy pairings (Ravnica, Llorwyn, Shadowmoor, Return to Ravnica). So the number of Arc-like multicolor cards far outnumbers the Wedge-like.

Mind you, I'm talking about singular cards and their Mana costs. You obviously can build decks any way you feel like.

[http404error]

Ah, I'm sorry, I think I misread your post. You are pretty much spot on, although Nicol Bolas is really the only 3-color card outside of a multicolor set. Innistrad had some two-color themes, but Scars of Mirrodin block and Zendikar block had pretty much no multicolor at all.

The Commander product did have some legendary creatures in the wedges, but that was just fanservice.

ANYWAYS:

I drafted up some documents to organize information regarding the GKC Magic Set here: goo.gl/NCeWI

There are several tasks that need to be done:

• Go through the comic and write down all the things that could become cards. The "List of GKC Elements" page is for this purpose. Try to list things in chronological order. Once we do this we can estimate about how large the set should be.
  
  
• Decide whether we want the set to have the proper number of commons, uncommons, rares so it is draftable. It would be a challenge, but rewarding.
  
  
• Come up with ideas for keyword mechanics to introduce. I recommend having three; this is detailed more in the design document. It's really tempting to bring back shadow, but we'll see what else we can come up with first.
  
  
• Actually designing the individual cards should follow soon after we hash out the mechanics. For example, whatever the Etheric mechanic is should probably influence Annie's card design somewhat.
  
  
• Finding art for the cards. This is probably better left until later on, but if your screenshot-taking skills make your friends drool, it can't hurt to get really great representative shots of characters we're sure will be cards.
  

EDIT: Link shortened, that's all

[Morpheus]

I added some characters to the list. Might want to consider splitting the character list itself in races/classes since some minor characters such as specific robots like Sky Watcher and the Adminstrator feels a bit wrong to put in the main list.

[AluK]

Jan 2, 2013 10:55:47 GMT Morpheus said:

I added some characters to the list. Might want to consider splitting the character list itself in races/classes since some minor characters such as specific robots like Sky Watcher and the Adminstrator feels a bit wrong to put in the main list.

Yeah, certainly. That's one of the reasons why I created the race/list. We'll need to split the races among the colors and then list each character under their races, I believe.

Another reason to have a race/class list is that we'll certainly have to pad the Commons and Uncommons with non-canon generic characters of these races.

[GK Sierra]

The padding should be based on art made by Tom wherever possible though. We've seen more varieties of robot than we have of forest creature I believe.

Hit me up if you need someone to write those little description sentences on the card, those always crack me up.

[http404error]

Hey, awesome job so far. We'll try to get a sufficiently exhaustive list before attempting to distribute evenly into colors and rarities.

Another interesting question is whether we want robots to be colored artifacts. If they're colorless as is the norm, any color can use them. That might not be desirable. We'll have to see whether blue gets overly full compared to other colors or not.

[Morpheus]

Added more stuff to the list: Added some locations and items as well as splitting up the character list into Robots, Court Creatures, Neutral Creatures, People of the Court and Forest Creatures.
I'm gonna go make some magic cards with that tool you linked, http404error. Not particularly serious and I don't have any experience doing so, just thought it'd be fun. I'll share them here of course.

Also, imaginaryfriend, the "problem" with the cards you're making - if they're going to be in the set at least - is that they are, no offense, horribly outdated as a consequence of you hacing played last time in the late 1990s. The game has changed a good deal since then. A ton of new rules and mechanics have been introduced, many old ones have been phased out and the way cards are made has changed a lot (color combinations like the ones on your cards are exceptionally rare or even nonexestant in all newer sets). Contemporary cards tend to be more streamlined and powerful, I.e, less effects to reduce confusion but more dramatic ones so they feel good to play. Most of the people interested in making this magic set happen will most likely have played magic more recently (I last played the Kamigawa block, but I've followed the newer ones a bit since) and will be familiar with a newer version of MTG. Thus the set will end up more modern and these cards will simply have a very hard time fitting in, no matter their quality.

[Morpheus]

I made a card! It's Annie! Here's all finished cards until now. imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0


She's a pretty aggressive card with a bit of a trick to her. She has vigilance so she can both attack and use her ability in the same turn, dealing double damage, but only if she hasn't taken damage since she also damages herself and will most likely die if she was blocked and still attempts to blast her opponents. Her abilities embody both her outward calmness and her sudden emotional outbursts rather well I think, as well as fitting with her colours. Also she's a human spellshaper because I figured that was what came closest to a human/fire elemental hybrid with etheric powers. She's not legendary, but I'll make more versions of her, some of which will be. (I.e. the extremely emotional Annie from Fire Spike who lashes out with a wall of fire at Eglamore will be more powerful, of a higher rarity and legendary.)

I think I've sorta figured this editor out now. I want to ask one thing though, can you add a rarity symbol to a promotional card, and how? (She'd be an uncommon since she's powerful, but a bit expensive to be rare.)

Next up: Katarina! (Probably)

Edit: One more question: The set symbol, how can I make one of those? I want the Court Symbol or the Seed Bismuth as the set symbol but the editor will only make me use elipses and rectangles and stuff to make it. Can I just make one in some other program and load it in the Magic Set Editor? Or can I get the editor in the program to let me paint it properly?

Edit2: Fixing embarassing spelling mistakes.

[Morpheus]

Jan 3, 2013 14:00:07 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Yeah I know!

I do not expect the cards that I am making to be in the official GC set (except possibly in name). Consider these "vintage" cards as conversation starters, or possibly as inspiration for something similar but modern, if you wish. I plan on learning by watching you guys do this.

Heh, fair enough. Having vintage Gunnerkrigg cards as well just makes it all that much cooler.

I made two more cards! Here's all finished cards until now. imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0

Edit: Fixed Katarina. Made her legendary. Not sure if I should make her mythic too. Also made Annie, Fire Spike 2(R/B)(R/B) instead of only one (R/B) with a R, 'cause her selfishness from chapter 31 fits so well with black and to make her different cards seem more different. Katarina still has both the normal blue and the hybrid blue/white mana in her cost since she's completely pointless if you don't have blue anyway and I like the flavor in it.

Also, some descriptions: Antimony, Fire Spike is Annie at her most physically powerful. She's a mythical so she's exceptionally strong, a 4/2 haste, first strike with firebreathing is already very good, but in addition to that she has the ability to sit back and blast her enemies if attacking will put her in danger. This ability makes use of her firebreathing ability (R: get +1/+0) since it deals her power as damage, and it can also be used to go straight for a specific target, be it a player or a creature. This does have a slight mana cost though, and she'll still be forced to tap.

Katarina is very costly for a 1/1, but she brings a very powerful ability to the table to make up for that: The ability to play artifacts for a very small price and in particular her ability to give any robot put into play with her Modular 1, which will not only make the robots more powerful, but will also robot give up its scrap upon death, to improve the newer generations.

[Morpheus]

Even more! Here's all finished cards until now. imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0

Coyote is here because I figured he should be included when his Tooth requires you to have him to be worth anything. Him being an 8 mana mythical 7/7 should still give you some impression of the power he'll have. Hope y'all enjoy them!

Edit: I forgot the promotional art cards doesn't show rarity. Katarina is supposed to be mythical.

Edit2: Fixed some things and added Coyote's abilities. His first ability is inspired by his ability to grant other creatures abilities as well as the bind he puts on Annie from where the destroy ability comes.
The second ability is inspired by his ability to stop time, ending his opponent's turn and by when he made the Annan Waters, destroying the terrain and the city on the forest side.

[Georgie L]

Well isn't coyote's domain death, dream, trickery and nature?

Maybe the shrinking of the moon thing could be made like an ability, apply -x/-x to target creature.

or another idea Bestow gift: search deck for (item) and place on another of your creatures, but with some sort of negative effect like -1/0 to applied creature to represent how Coyote's gifts are always broken and some cost like coyote is tapped for x turns.
It'd need figuring the right balance but that sounds a cool idea.

[Morpheus]

Jan 3, 2013 18:19:01 GMT Georgie L said:

Well isn't coyote's domain death, dream, trickery and nature?

Maybe the shrinking of the moon thing could be made like an ability, apply -x/-x to target creature.

That's an idea. I was thinking of his ability to empower other creatures (Ysengrin and Renard in the comic) as well as when he made the Annan Waters and when he stopped time as possibilities. It wasn't that I didn't have any ideas, just that I hadn't chosen which to use and figured out how.

[Morpheus]

I also just noticed something when I looked at my Coyote's Tooth card. It warps the air (reality?) around it. That's pretty cool. Also ties in nicely with the reality warping skill of summoning Coyote.

[Georgie L]

aha, rather too much choice what with Coyote being so powerful than not enough.

That's something, where is chuckles? I expect the amazing powers of gardening quote should be the one on the card.

[Morpheus]

I'll get to him sometime. Renard is first though, in several versions as well. Robot, Mort, Sivo, Paz, George, Jones and more will come too. No idea which order, but they'll pop up.

[Morpheus]

I made some more but they don't have art or flavor text yet, and I don't have any internet right now (except on my phone where I'm writing this) so I can't really find the pictures and quotes I need now. I might finish them tomorrow or it might take some more time, I'm not sure. (I made Doorbot, Janet, Paz, 4 (and a half) versions of Reynardine, a 2d and a 3d Shadow Two, Robot n his hooded body and in his mouse body, Eglamore, Jones, Mort, Parley, Sivo and Bud. Ysengrin and Coyote in the works. Also made some fixes, grammar, spelling and formatting, to some of the seven I put up already.

I'm having a metric crapton of fun making Magic cards out of Gunnerkrigg.

[Morpheus]

I made a ton of cards since yesterday. In addition to Coyote who I added further up there are these: Here's all finished cards until now. imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0

I think that was all of them. Should I keep posting them like this or should I just link my Imgur album where all the pics are instead? They do take up a huge amount of space on the page after all. Either way, here's the album: imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0

Edit: Oh, and they're missing the flavor text for now. I'll add that some other time.

Also, response pls!

[Ender]

Jan 4, 2013 11:28:30 GMT Morpheus said:

I think that was all of them. Should I keep posting them like this or should I just link my Imgur album where all the pics are instead? They do take up a huge amount of space on the page after all. Either way, here's the album: imgur.com/a/t3Ijd#0

It's probably OK to embed them here, but they should at least be on multiple lines so they don't stretch the page. Also, cool cards

[Morpheus]

Jan 4, 2013 14:50:18 GMT Ender said:

It's probably OK to embed them here, but they should at least be on multiple lines so they don't stretch the page. Also, cool cards

Thanks

They don't stretch the page right now, do they? They don't on my computer at least.

[Ender]

Jan 4, 2013 17:18:31 GMT Morpheus said:

Thanks

They don't stretch the page right now, do they? They don't on my computer at least.

They do on mine, a lot, haha. All of the cards in that last post are on one line. I use Firefox, maybe you use something else?

[http404error]

Those are very nice! I'm not all that fond of Modular though. Also just having one card with Level Up is a bit odd, although it's not a bad idea for the court...

I had the interesting idea that the set should be more throwback and not include Mythic Rares or Planeswalkers. That would certainly be interesting, although Coyote might make a good PW.

ADD: Dude Ender, you have a tiny monitor.

[Ender]

hahaha alright. Since no one believes me I'll give you a screenshot.

i.imgur.com/rd5BI.jpg

Notice the scrollbar at the bottom.

By the way, my monitor is 26" 1920x1080

[http404error]

Oh whoa never mind. The images aren't automatically linebreaking. I would take down the embeds and just leave the album link. Or learn to < br />

[Morpheus]

That's some pagebreak yeah. Is it fixed now?

http404error: They're not really meant to be any kind of final anyway, I'm mostly just trying to fit the flavor of the characters.
I like mythical, because, well, overpowered cards are fun and mythical cards are kind of overpowered. I don't really know how planeswalkers work since I never played with them myself, but they look like fun.