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Post by todd on Sept 13, 2007 11:35:01 GMT
There's been a fair amount of speculation in the Comments on the main page that Annie and Kat might be romantically attracted to each other. I think, however, that the evidence is against it.
Annie's aware of Kat's crush on Mr. Eglamore, and "first boyfriend" attraction towards Alistair, and her response towards these was one of detached amusement, without any sign of jealousy. (There is some mild tension during Chapter Thirteen, but that stems from Annie feeling left out of things, since the subjects that Kat and Aly like to talk about - their favorite movies, video games, and pop music groups - are completely unfamiliar to her.) If Annie was actually in love with Kat, even on a subconscious level, I think that we'd have seen a different response from her.
Likewise, when Kat finds out that Mort has a crush on Annie, she's delighted about it, even encouraging Annie at the end of Chapter Fourteen to accept him as a boy-friend. No sign of jealousy or romantic tension on her part, either.
The evidence suggests that they're simply close friends, and nothing more. (I certainly don't think that we need to take Reynardine's infamous remark back in Chapter Seven seriously. He just likes being snide.)
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dork457
Junior Member
Annie don't scared anny thing!
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Post by dork457 on Sept 13, 2007 11:40:36 GMT
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Post by spritznar on Sept 14, 2007 1:09:32 GMT
several of the things you state as fact are speculation on your part, so their viability as evidence is debatable
that said; being a fan of one pairing or another has less to do with an unshakable belief that said pair will be canon and more to do with a combination of hope and wishful thinking.
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rallan
Junior Member
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Post by rallan on Sept 14, 2007 3:02:00 GMT
Wait, there's speculation that Annie and Kat might eventually book tickets for two for a cruise to the Isle of Lesbos? That's crazy talk. They're totally just Best Friends Forever. There might be a little more in Zimmy and Gamma's friendship ("a little more" being chaste kisses and lots of talks about feelings of course, because Gunnerkrigg's a respectable comic), but even that's not too likely.
If I were a gambling man, the only characters I'd pick as likely suspects are Coyote and Reynardine (not with each other of course since they're brothers and... eww). Primordial spirits of epic lulz don't strike me as the sort of characters who'd limit themselves to only batting for one team.
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Post by papaya on Sept 14, 2007 3:53:38 GMT
I have to agree with todd on this one. Pretty much the only person in the comic who has suggested the possibility of Kat and Annie being more than just friends is Reynardine, and that was one tongue-in-cheek comment. He said it, I think, to offend the girls ('cuz, even--perhaps especially--if they were lesbians, chances are they wouldn't be interested in letting Rey watch. Come ON!). There's no reason to think that Rey believes Kat and Annie are destined for romance.
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Post by Yubi Shines on Sept 14, 2007 9:12:15 GMT
"Primordial spirits of epic lulz" is the best description for them ever.
I find it slightly weird that people are debating that they're In Lerve. They's not even teens! I think.
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Post by todd on Sept 14, 2007 10:31:33 GMT
several of the things you state as fact are speculation on your part, so their viability as evidence is debatable Just out of curiosity, which things were those?
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Post by spritznar on Sept 14, 2007 18:53:52 GMT
todd, any statement about the emotions of a character is speculation unless made by the author. sometimes said speculation is well supported by the actions of the characters in the comic but a well made character is more complex than what we see. like an actual person, it's hard to know what all is going on in their head and sometimes appearances can be deceiving.
i'm not saying that i disagree with your assessment of the situation, simply that there's room for flexibility and surprises. that ambiguity is enough to allow people to come to different conclusions and/or wildly speculate for their own entertainment and amusement on what could be.
personally i AM a kat/annie fan. that doesn't mean i don't realize and accept that the chance of them ever being romantically involved is slim to none, it just means i would be happy if it happened (of course, i'm also happy seeing kat build antigravity machines and annie play mindgames with coyote). and even then, i neither expect nor want more than a little fluff seeing as they're rather young and the comic has way too much awesome plot to focus on.
people are free to speculate whatever they want and you're free to disagree. that said, i wash my hands of this topic because there are undertones here that i strongly wish to rant about and this is not really the place for it.
edit: i retract that last statement
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exhau
New Member
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Post by exhau on Sept 14, 2007 21:02:16 GMT
In b4 Tomoyo on the lack of jealousy thing.
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Post by magnolia on Sept 14, 2007 21:46:30 GMT
I'm gonna have to go with the "OHMYGOD STOP THEY'RE LIKE ELEVEN" sentiment here.
Not because kids that young can't have sexual feelings- obviously, they do- but because generally this sort of pairing is rooted for just because Lesbians Are Hot.
Hence, "SERIOUSLY STOP IT THEY'RE ELEVEN."
It's pretty clear to me that Annie and Kat are good friends and that's it. Zimmy and Gamma, I get a vibe, but then it's hard to judge such a unique relationship.
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Post by nikita on Sept 14, 2007 22:35:41 GMT
I don't know why people are thinking this in the first place... there's no indication for that.
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rallan
Junior Member
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Post by rallan on Sept 15, 2007 2:29:46 GMT
I'm gonna have to go with the "OHMYGOD STOP THEY'RE LIKE ELEVEN" sentiment here. But what about Degrassi Junior High awkward teen relationships? They rock.
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rallan
Junior Member
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Post by rallan on Sept 15, 2007 2:31:05 GMT
I don't know why people are thinking this in the first place... there's no indication for that. Because the first rule of webcomics is that if two chicks like each other and aren't ugly, they're probably lesbians
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Hazel
Junior Member
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Post by Hazel on Sept 15, 2007 19:08:12 GMT
Good Lawd, is all of this three-tiered debate based on Rey's singular witticism? Honestly, people will see subtext in a teapot these days.
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Post by monkeybucks on Sept 16, 2007 1:24:21 GMT
I'm gonna have to go with the "OHMYGOD STOP THEY'RE LIKE ELEVEN" sentiment here. Not because kids that young can't have sexual feelings- obviously, they do- but because generally this sort of pairing is rooted for just because Lesbians Are Hot. Hence, "SERIOUSLY STOP IT THEY'RE ELEVEN." It's pretty clear to me that Annie and Kat are good friends and that's it. Zimmy and Gamma, I get a vibe, but then it's hard to judge such a unique relationship. Just out of curiosity, if it's all "gosh golly THEYS IS LYK 11 SHUDDUP GUYS" for annie and kat, why is it okay for gamma and zimmy?
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Ed130
Junior Member
Courage And Duty
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Post by Ed130 on Sept 16, 2007 2:01:39 GMT
there are many layers to this comic, more than any I have seen before. It is natural for us, the readers to get things completely wrong (my thing with abalone, see Rabbit Warren thread) I believe this is another case of mistaken meaning.
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Post by spritznar on Sept 16, 2007 2:16:56 GMT
Hazelly, take that back! i do not need a teapot to see subtext!
anywho, i didn't need rey's comment either. i habitually root out and disproportionately credit any little bit that could remotely be subtext. i feel that's my prerogative since the vast majority of media seems oblivious to the very existence of lesbians (outside of porn or the occasional passing stereotype).
and i really don't know why there's a thread on this because the only kat/annie comments i noticed were more along the lines of an occasional "yay, kat/annie" (which i equate to someone cheering for their favorite underdog sports team) rather than serious speculation on the probability of them getting together.
ps: well, i refrained from comment/rant-ing for all of one day...
pps: in case my delivery was ambiguous, the tone of this rant was "mildly amused" -- rather than "angry" or "irritated" (although both of those emotions did occur to me during the course of this thread)
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Post by Uglyhead on Sept 16, 2007 3:36:29 GMT
Subtext and speculate all you want, but there's a simple fact that a lot of you seem to be overlooking.
Having a main character or two grow to be homosexual would be seen as a bit of a stunt. The perception of the comic would probably go from "Hey whoa check out this crazy mythology/technology comic it's full of weird and funny crud" to "Hey whoa check out this crazy comic about -underage lesbians- oh and there are some ghosts and stuff too maybe but whatever". Siddell would stop being seen as a weaver of a mysterious story and instead be "that weird guy who made that comic about those gay girls"
Simply, it would overshadow everything else, and I don't know if Siddell would risk that. Maybe that's not how it should be, perhaps a character's orientation ought not to be such a big deal, but it is. People are obsessed with it. Why else would there be so many people in this very forum either A: rooting for it or B: trying to disprove it?
Besides, it was -one joke- back in like chapter 6 or 7 or something, yeesh, y'all are jumpin' at shadows.
Edit: Ugh, and now I feel like a weirdo for even bothering to post at all in this thread.
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Post by Yin on Sept 16, 2007 3:44:42 GMT
Just out of curiosity, if it's all "gosh golly THEYS IS LYK 11 SHUDDUP GUYS" for annie and kat, why is it okay for gamma and zimmy? Because G&Z's relationship isn't as clearcut. Plain and simple.
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ethyl
New Member
Too weird to live, too rare to die...
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Post by ethyl on Sept 16, 2007 4:58:25 GMT
I think the only reason the Raynardine joke was put in there is because a few pages earlier when Annie cries under the cherry tree, a LOT of people said the angle looked like they were kissing. I think it's a nod to that.
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Post by spritznar on Sept 16, 2007 22:31:57 GMT
my guess would be that rey's comment was a convenient plot device to make annie tell him to shut it so that in the following scene he wouldn't be able to give a lot of warning or preemptive exposition about ysengrin and possessed robot.
*shrug*
so here's a question. everyone's asking "why are people specuating so much from rey's one comment". my thought was this; people wildly overspeculate on everything said or seen in gunnerkrigg court, why is this speculation the only one with a thread dedicated to debunking it?
sidenote: i feel a little like i'm hitting my head against a brick wall.
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Post by todd on Sept 17, 2007 0:25:42 GMT
Yes, I suppose that starting the thread probably was a mistake on my part. I'd been musing about this particular subject for a few days (partly influenced, I believe, by having recently read a couple of essays in the Harry Potter fandom arguing against Harry and Hermione being a potential couple in the books), and couldn't resist giving my thoughts on it. I'm sorry if I caused any trouble.
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Post by papaya on Sept 17, 2007 2:58:16 GMT
Yeah, I think one of the reasons this discussion has been...well, not quite so lighthearted...is that, as spritznar pointed out, lesbians are often either ignored, or portrayed quite unflatteringly, in most media. So all of us are coming into the discussion with certain biases because we're talking about two girls, rather than a girl and a boy. So todd, I don't think anyone is blaming you for starting the thread I can't think of much else to say that doesn't become an Important Discussion with Big Words in It, and I'm not sure this is the place, so I'll leave it at that.
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Post by magnolia on Sept 17, 2007 4:04:57 GMT
"Just out of curiosity, if it's all "gosh golly THEYS IS LYK 11 SHUDDUP GUYS" for annie and kat, why is it okay for gamma and zimmy?"
Because I think there actually is something meant to be there with Zimmy and Gamma, whereas I think that with Annie and Kat its more "I HOPE THEY'RE LESBIANS, I LIKE THOSE".
I don't mind if it's actually in canon, because eleven year olds do have feelings like that. But that doesn't mean it's cool to lust after them.
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rallan
Junior Member
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Post by rallan on Sept 18, 2007 2:51:15 GMT
I don't really know if there's much evidence that Zimmy and Gamma will turn out to be a couple either. It's just that their friendship is still an unknown quantity, while we've seen more than enough of Annie and Kat's friendship to make a well-informed call.
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Post by La Goon on Sept 18, 2007 12:30:42 GMT
Yeah, at best Zimmy and Gamma are "soulmates" or whatever you'd call it (I think).
Actually somehow I'd prefer Zimmy not to have any sexuality at all (I was looking for a "slightly frightened" smiley to put here but couldn't find one).
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Post by Aspen d'Grey on Sept 20, 2007 14:33:50 GMT
Ya know... Why doesn't someone just ask Tom, so he can go 'gosh golly THEY'RE LIKE ELEVEN!' and end this debate? Mmkay? Plus, Kat having a crush on Eglamore is a lot more cute.
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Post by todd on Sept 20, 2007 23:30:43 GMT
I probably shouldn't say anything further in this thread (there are times when I regret starting it), but does anybody besides me get the suspicion that one of the things that started the "Annie/Kat" remarks was the fact that none of the boys at Gunnerkrigg whom we've met so far seem worthy of Annie?
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Hazel
Junior Member
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Post by Hazel on Sept 21, 2007 0:14:23 GMT
I probably shouldn't say anything further in this thread (there are times when I regret starting it), but does anybody besides me get the suspicion that one of the things that started the "Annie/Kat" remarks was the fact that none of the boys at Gunnerkrigg whom we've met so far seem worthy of Annie? Hasn't there been quite a bit of speculation about Sullivan's John in that respect?
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Post by todd on Sept 21, 2007 0:47:34 GMT
A little, but we don't know enough about the guy to know if he would be worthy of her. He's only appeared a few times, largely as an extra. (And the two of them have certainly never even spoken one word to each other.)
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