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Post by aline on Aug 5, 2015 18:57:11 GMT
If the psychopomps knew something would they keep it from Annie because they wouldn't want her to lose her etheric side? The psychopomps aren't allowed to interfere with the living and had to go quite a roundabout way just to give Annie a blinker stone. Also, to them death is simply something that happens to everyone. Would they see much point in stalling it? Would they see the difference between 40 years and 80? So Anthony was acting cold towards Annie because he felt that Annie should hate him. Anthony feels he deserves to be hated by Annie. If the psychopomps could help wouldn't Surma have asked them when they were right there? If Anthony understood what was going to happen wouldn't he have covered all the angles? Whatever Anthony found out from them, it's possibly more specific than "how do I keep her from dying". For example, some key information about the removal of a spirit without killing the subject. Hopefully we'll find out on Friday.
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Post by aline on Aug 5, 2015 9:22:11 GMT
I am having strong doubts as to whether there was actual love in the relationship between Surma and Tony. He sounds more like a friend who promised to help out and failed to do so than a lover. Anyway, actions speak louder than words man. The guy spent 12 years barely doing anything else than trying to save Surma. He left his own friend without a word because *she* didn't want contact with the Court. And after failing to cure her he was so crushed that he became incapable of thinking rationaly (failing to save someone isn't the same as killing them, a surgeon of all people has got to know that). If that's not love, I don't know what is. But I agree that when dealing with those emotions he is completely self-centered. I doubt it. I think she's been in about the same place (I killed my mother and my dad knows, he hates me doesn't he?) and she will more and more understand how similar and how close she is to her father. And reconcile herself with his weaknesses and hers. Although depending on what kind of other revelations are waiting for us, that might not come right away.
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Post by aline on Aug 5, 2015 7:09:00 GMT
Yeah. Understandable emotions... but pretty stupid and irresponsible decisions.
So, the psychopomps, now... I wonder what they told him. If they are the reason the guy tried remote surgery on his daughter I think I want a word with them.
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Post by aline on Aug 4, 2015 17:42:41 GMT
So... Any chance that, in a technicality, James provided artificial insemination material for Annie? I'm guessing not... Was wondering if some way could be worked out that Annie was Tony's child while still having a connection to James. I think the chances are somewhere in the minus area. But that might make a fun fanfic.
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Post by aline on Aug 4, 2015 11:02:35 GMT
Tony is a friend to the group, what if Surma and James got hot n heavy and it went to far and James is actually Annies Father and doesn't even know it, and Tony has covered up for his friends this whole time. That would explain the emotionless, non-connection, to Annie. If Tony is keeping up this lie; and it would be a HUGE lie, he definitely needed that drink! Tom said before that Annie is Tony and Surma's daughter. No need to speculate here. Some information Tom has dropped here and there: Tony isn't one for showing a lot of emotion. Tony and Surma left before Surma got pregnant. Both Tony and Surma knew what would happen if Surma had a child. Annie is the child of Tony and Surma. Annie was no accident. Surma could have postponed having a child in order to live longer. Surma never regretted having Annie. Thanks for the recap. Some other answers I digged from Chrysoprax:
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Post by aline on Aug 3, 2015 15:04:07 GMT
- Tricked Renard to capture him - Left her best friend without warning, and presumably forced Tony to leave his the same way, because she was too proud let them watch her get sick and die Both bad choices, but it has nothing to do with Annie whatsoever. - Became pregnant with full knowledge of what that meant, with a man she had to know was not going to be a fit parent on his own Most people have no idea what kind of parent they're themselves going to be before the kid is there. Blaming Surma because she should have predicted what kind of realtionship Tony would have with their child before even getting pregnant is frankly overdoing it. We don't know much about their relationship yet, but it was obviously a loving one. Why would she think he couldn't love Annie too? Besides, he chose to be a father just like she chose to be a mother. He carries the responsibility for being a shitty father, not her. - Chose not to prepare her daughter for her own certain death, how to deal with the fire elemental side, etc. We don't know if the other way around would have been really better for Annie. Tom said on one occasion that Surma herself always knew what she was and how she'd die. If she acted differently with her daughter, she can't have felt that comfortable with so much early knowledge. Maybe she hoped that Tony would find a solution to the problem before it became necessary to brush the subject. We don't know if she knew it would happen this way. The reason Annie met Muut this early was because of growing up in a hospital. We have no idea when Surma met them and if she was ever confronted with the same situation when her own mother died. So far we have questions, but no reason to shift much blame from Anthony to Surma.
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Post by aline on Aug 3, 2015 12:15:26 GMT
I'm also very curious to know what "this business with James" is all about, but since Donald already knows, we won't learn it this time :-( Sometimes a break-up is just a break-up. Tony doesn't understand his own emotions much less anyone else's, so it makes sense that he would refer to Surma's break-up with James as "business". Are you sure he's talking about the break-up? When they left the Court, Surma was already pregnant. It must have been some time after the end of her relationship with James. Besides, Tony is citing it as a reason for *him* to want to leave the place. Why would he be bothered about his wife's break-up if she wasn't? I think this "business" thing was between Tony and James, not between Surma and James. We already know Jimmy Jims was never a fan of Tony, even when he wasn't yet married to the girl he loves...
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Post by aline on Aug 3, 2015 11:53:05 GMT
The case against Surma gets stronger. Anthony wasn't/isn't the only poor parent here. It appears he was at best marginally capable even with Surma's guidance, and after she died he lost all sense of direction in parenting. That doesn't excuse him, but it does explain some. And shifts some blame to Surma. I dunno. Surma was certainly at fault with Anja (no way to treat your best friend my dear) and some others (Renard...), but we don't know that she was a poor parent or was responsible for Anthony's poor parenting. We just know she wanted Annie to be born away from the Court. Was she really the one who wanted her daughter to be educated there and why?... maybe we'll learn that on wednesday.
I'm also very curious to know what "this business with James" is all about, but since Donald already knows, we won't learn it this time :-(
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Post by aline on Aug 3, 2015 11:29:59 GMT
Tony failed in letting Surma die. He. failed. We've seen how hard Annie takes failure, and what Annie takes hard, Tony takes even harder. How on earth was he supposed to face his friends with the knowledge of that failure, let alone his daughter?? How could he face them??? Now, there may be more complexity to it than this. However, I personally can relate to how utterly crippling self-loathing can be. I can totally see how it might cause Tony to lose focus on his daughter - first, while being increasingly absorbed in fighting a losing battle for Surma's life, and though guilt for years after the battle was lost. Plenty of people lose a spouse without losing a sense of decency in the process. Tony's problem first and foremost is his ego (I'm the only person in existence who had to suffer). Agree. I think Annie is about to find out that her father isn't this almighty man in her mind, but a person with weaknesses who made some good things and some bad things and took some pretty stupid decisions at times. She might even realize that she inherited a lot of her own failings from her dad. Maybe then, being angry at him will no longer seem so intolerable.
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Post by aline on Aug 1, 2015 7:45:36 GMT
Even if that were the case his bosses must have known about it within the hour, given their level of surveillance on their own people, so it can't be an act of earth shattering consequences. There's no evidence of that, so you're rejecting the possibility that it was out of hand. It might have been out of hand, but I consider the probability to be quite low, given how openly he contacted her (a phone call in the middle of school, my, how discreet). That justification, while not outside the realm of possibilities, is really very stretched. So giving a cryptic coded message is ok, but if he took five seconds more to add "and by the way, hope you're well" his boss would surely" have disappeared" him. It has got to be the reason. Especially since now she's in front of him, and we can clearly see all the hugging and words of affection he's refrained for years because of that gun pointed to his head. Hum. I'm not commenting how he felt, I'm commenting how he made his daughter feel. His mode of communication with her is on 100% efficient mode: purely functional, no bonding. He had nicer words for Mrs. Donlan than for Annie despite not even shaking her hand. [/quote]Oh, I'm sure on some level he's convinced he's done the right thing. Who doesn't?
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Post by aline on Aug 1, 2015 7:12:11 GMT
Tony obviously wasn't forbidden to talk to his daughter, it was the Court who tracked Annie for him and transfered the call to Jones' phone in Microsat 5. I'm pretty sure that Tony's handlers from the Court (or whomever he reported to therein) weren't aware of the call. The call seems likely to have been facilitated by external professional contacts of Tony and/or factions within the Court opposed to the one Tony has been working for. We have absolutely no indication of that. Even if that is the case, Donald made it clear that Tony had other, more discreet means to contact him. Just like Annie passed a message to Donald, Donald could pass a message to Annie. It wasn't impossible, he decided not to do it. He's going to have to come up with a pretty good and specific reason for me to accept that as reasonable. I remember that quote well, and it just serves to tell us that Tony was more concerned about stasfying his own emotional needs (hearing his daughter's voice) than hers. In fact none of his actions so far seem to aknwoledge that Annie has emotional needs of any kind. And why not warn his girl that he was going to be busy for a while before disappearing for years? There was no need to get into detail, but that would have prevented her from spending a whole summer waiting for him. Perhaps he didn't know he'd be forbidden from contacting her at all until it was too late. Or maybe whatever he was doing was dangerous, and didn't want Annie to worry for his safety (people make this mistake a lot it seems). Perhaps Surma's recent death had hit him so hard he simply didn't want to deal with Annie for a while, or anything at all outside work. He may even have considered suicide at one point, and thought a missing father better than a dead one. - He wasn't unable to contact her. He even had several ways to contact her through Donald and chose not to. - Seriously? For years she didn't even know if he was dead or alive, and you believe any warning that he was going to be away could have worried her *more*? There was no need for him to alude to danger - Even if Surma's death hit him hard, that is no excuse for not dealing with his daughter. When you're a parent you have duties to your kid. You're not allowed to behave like a 15 years old emo goth even if you feel like it.
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Post by aline on Aug 1, 2015 6:55:30 GMT
Tony obviously wasn't forbidden to talk to his daughter, it was the Court who tracked Annie for him and transfered the call to Jones' phone in Microsat 5. I'm pretty sure that Tony's handlers from the Court (or whomever he reported to therein) weren't aware of the call. The call seems likely to have been facilitated by external professional contacts of Tony and/or factions within the Court opposed to the one Tony has been working for. Even if that were the case his bosses must have known about it within the hour, given their level of surveillance on their own people, so it can't be an act of earth shattering consequences. Even so, Donald told Annie that Tony had plenty of ways to contact him. Passing a message to his daughter at least once (an actual message directed to her) was a possibility and he discarded it. The "security concerns" will have to be pretty huge and specific to justify that. Yeah, I remember, *he* wanted to hear her voice. How very tragic. But then again he could have stopped watching his own belly button and wonder about her emotional needs instead of his. And why not warn his girl that he was going to be busy for a while before disappearing for years? There was no need to get into detail, but that would have prevented her from spending a whole summer waiting for him. Perhaps he didn't know he'd be forbidden from contacting her at all until it was too late. Or maybe whatever he was doing was dangerous, and didn't want Annie to worry for his safety (people make this mistake a lot it seems). Perhaps Surma's recent death had hit him so hard he simply didn't want to deal with Annie for a while, or anything at all outside work. He may even have considered suicide at one point, and thought a missing father better than a dead one.[/quote] Seriously, the girl spent years not even knowing if he was dead or alive. Any warning that he was going to be away would have been LESS worrying than that.
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Post by aline on Jul 31, 2015 8:50:05 GMT
Annie is hearing that it was the Court that kept her Father from contacting her, not that he just chose to neglect her. Not sure that is in the comic. Not quite, but close. Tony obviously wasn't forbidden to talk to his daughter, it was the Court who tracked Annie for him and transfered the call to Jones' phone in Microsat 5. Even if that was just a one time thing, I don't see what prevented him to add "By the way, hope you're well, take care". And why not warn his girl that he was going to be busy for a while before disappearing for years? There was no need to get into detail, but that would have prevented her from spending a whole summer waiting for him. On the other side: he did have some important work to do, he didn't leave just because he didn't want to be around his daughter. The decision to work on that "Omega device" thing was made before her birth, it had nothing to do with Annie. And he had good reasons to not want to discuss the whole matter in detail at the dinner table. That explains quite a bit about his secretive behavior, if this is so bad that even Donald is afraid of discussing it.
And there is another side to this story, namely Tony's efforts to cure Surma. It could be that he agreed to certain conditions so the Court would provide the support necessary to investigating his wife's condition. The fact that he had to use a secret message to Donald to get his hands on some supplies tells me he doesn't want to report all of his experiments to the Court bosses. Mere speculation at this stage of course.
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Post by aline on Jul 29, 2015 10:06:38 GMT
The fact that he can open up to Donny doesn't mean he can open up to Antimony. Just because someone can be normal with their erstwhile best friend, doesn't mean they are capable of opening up to everyone else. That. Also no one has the same relationship to their best friend and to their children. Doesn't mean that his relationship to his kid isn't unhealthy and that he has no responsibility in this. But people seem to assume he's doing all that for the sole purpose of making her miserable, and there's obviously a heavy and complicated background behind Tony's attitude. Personnally, I don't think he's unable to create a bond with his daughter. Rather, I think he's completely wrong about what she needs from him. He's being a cold blooded control freak because he thinks that's what he's got to be for Annie. A lot of that is posturing. And what I meant to do by bringing up context was to point out the validity of judging a character as childish and not another in many instances is dependent on context. For example, Annie running off to the forest for a summer after finding out how her mother died is a very different situation from Tony running off and abandoning her without so much as a word. Because the context of both situations is very different. She was a young woman who just found out something traumatic, and Tony was a grown ass man with a responsibility to Annie that he abandoned without so much as a warning. But it's helpful too to remember we're still missing a lot of context about Tony. For example, imagine the Fire Spike events from Kat's point of view instead of Annie's, and with Annie's motives kept hidden from us readers. Wouldn't she look like kind of a jerk? I'm not saying that those situations are the same. For a start, Kat isn't Annie's daughter. But it's not all black and white. Annie's decision, while understandable, was also hurtful for people who cared about her. As for Tony's decisions, there's no doubt about the damage it caused. But we're still missing the motives so we can't even begin to understand them.
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Post by aline on Jul 29, 2015 7:25:11 GMT
There is quite the gulf between how he chooses to deal with Donny alone and how he chooses to deal with everyone else (including his daughter). Especially with his daughter. Note that up until now we mainly saw him interracting with, or around Annie. There's a huge issue in his relationship with his daughter, that much is for sure. And Donald seems to think so too, or he wouldn't let Annie spy on her own father like that.
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Post by aline on Jul 27, 2015 15:34:38 GMT
But then this makes me wonder how exactly did Donnie or Surma ever get close to him in the first place? I mean, I've seen cold people but Anthony is positively arctic 99% of the time. What exactly made them devote the time and energy to getting past his walls in the first place when absolutely nothing kind or positive seems to escape when he decides to lock down the fort. Maybe what ever malfunction he has simply worsened as he grew older but it raises the question I think. Donald told Annie in Divine that he was a completely different person at the time. So I guess the walls weren't quite as high when he was younger. He might have started off like Annie, somewhat formal and guarded. But then, instead of opening himself up like his daughter did, it went downwards. I'm sure there's a story behind this.
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Post by aline on Jul 27, 2015 8:01:14 GMT
And the house is so empty he can't even offer Donald a place to sit? or is that just customary drink first, do anything else later? And I get why somebody newly moved in won't have his whisky-glass-collection all ready to go, but.. he's got one mug and one glass? Guy doesn't get any visitors, does he. One glass, one mug, one armchair, one desk chair. Probably two sets of identical clothes so he can wash them alternatively. Everything else is like handshakes: not strictly necessary.
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Post by aline on Jul 27, 2015 7:39:45 GMT
If he's more socially capable than we thought that makes it worse than we thought.
You think? Even if he seems to have been pretty peculiar from the start, I never liked the idea that he's just doing all this because he was born that way. From a storyline perspective that would be boring anyway. Tony has no excuses, but he does have reasons for acting as he does. I think having reasons is a good thing. It means hope for change. I'm eager to find out what they are.
Also in that poor attempt at a joke, he was making fun of himself. Like his embarrassment at the dinner table when his absence was mentionned, that's a hint that he does reflect on what he's doing. Why is he doing it anyway? Well, I hope we'll find out soon.
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Post by aline on Jul 27, 2015 7:09:56 GMT
I don't get the joke, and he seems to be acting a bit like an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in forever. I think he's a guy who hasn't had a drink with his one and only friend forever. I don't know what the deal is with Anthony Carver, but clearly he's completely incapable of being sincere around pretty much everyone, including his daughter. But Donald was always an exception to that. I hope we (and Annie) find out more about his motives soon.
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Post by aline on Jul 20, 2015 7:26:54 GMT
Well, wenn Annie goes etheral she can use her blinker stone as an anchor, yes? She can leave it somewhere or throw it away and visit that place. That'S what she'd doing now, she's leaving the part of herself she doesn't want to deal with anchored on the blinker stone so as to keep it separate.
I don't think that separation is permanent. I think the scene with Kat back in chapter 51 was her concentrating to keep her "anger demon" from coming back.
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Post by aline on Jul 14, 2015 10:24:33 GMT
But Surma had a worse temper than Annie. Even he should know the potential for a berserk rage on Annie's part, after all she did engage in one in "Fire Spike". Perhaps he can't see it because to do so he would have to see how he looks to others. There's a lot we don't know about Surma and Tony's relationship, so that's just guessing but... I see Surma more as expressing her temper constantly by smaller acts, while Annie is more like a sleeping volcano. Every urge to snap at people is supressed, supressed... until it eventually explodes. Just before Fire Spike, there's a couple of pages where we see that building up. Every time she gets angrier but she keeps smiling at everyone. I doubt Surma would have done that. She'd have snapped at them all and got it out of her system.
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Post by aline on Jul 6, 2015 10:58:30 GMT
Flame Elemental may have a method to her raging madness; she could be practicing becoming corporeal. Maybe. She waited until she was alone. Because the other Annie can control her, or because she didn't want to be seen?
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Post by aline on Jul 6, 2015 7:35:30 GMT
She's bloody furious all right. But not able to set anything to fire, apparently.
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Post by aline on Jul 6, 2015 7:27:36 GMT
"White-mask Annie"? I must have missed that interpretation. It's not a theory as such. I don't really like to name them "Annie" and "the Elemental" because for now I assume they are both (parts of) Annie. So I came up with that way to differentiate between both. Yes, it's wild, unsupported speculation. I understand that happens here sometimes. It feels like you're irritated by my comment. I'll take this opportunity to say that I really enjoy your interesting ideas. They usually make me think for a while and reread at least one chapter looking for pro or counter arguments, which is why I so often end up answering you with quotes and such. If this somehow makes you feel like you shouldn't express your ideas anymore, I'm sorry about it. On contrary. I'm always happy to read your posts. I have no idea, because I do not know by how much her fire powers depend on the elemental, and how much might now be due to her blinker stone, and to her own innate talents. I guess that's the heart of our disagreement. I never saw it as "Annie has got an elemental inside her", I always saw it as "Annie IS a fire elemental. Among other things." You can cut off my arm, but it's still my arm. Annie's elemental is Annie (in my eyes). So to me there is no difference between her own innate talents and the talents she got from her elemental nature. Have we ever seen Annie in direct communion with her elemental? I just reviewed the chapters where she and Parley were attacked by Jeanne, through the point where Annie returned from the forest, and didn't see it there. I'm not too sure what you mean by direct communion?
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Post by aline on Jul 3, 2015 21:45:33 GMT
The expression on the Elemental's face is not pleasant, but I do not think it yet includes hatred. I do not think she and Annie are adversaries, exactly, but their interests may not completely coincide, either. Whitemask-Annie looks satisfied with the situation and in control. Elemental-Annie looks very very unsatisfied with current events and does not appear to have freedom of her movements. I think it's fair to assume they have a great number of interests that they do not currently share. You are taking the pencil line analysis quite far without any story line basis for it. Zimmy never hit Annie the way she hit Anthony. And we have very little comparison basis to what an elemantal's face should look like, but Annie has taken both her etheral form and her fire form since the Divine events and there wasn't even the hint of a scar that could have resulted from the encounter. gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1370Does she look like she's scarred or cut off from her elemental side to you?
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Post by aline on Jul 3, 2015 13:46:22 GMT
Drawing characters with closed eyes is a common convention to give the impression that the face is like a mask. Tom is using it, presumably to underline her being expressionless and emotionless. There's a TV trope on this one.
As for the elemental, even from a distance the eyes form a frown. I'm pretty sure it is bloody furious all the page through.
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Post by aline on Jul 1, 2015 13:57:14 GMT
I think the big argument against this and the several other speculations that say "Annie is in control" is the large empty room seemingly suitable for fire-elemental maintenance and containment, which Anthony has arranged for her to live inYeah but on the other side: - We don't know for sure what exactly is suitable to contain a fire elemental. Actually, it doesn't look nearly big enough to need all the space in that ridiculously huge corridor room. - Why would Anthony want Annie to have the elemental in her room if he successfully removed it? OK, so maybe he doesn't have a choice, but... that should be an unsatisfactory solution to him - One way to interpret Annie's words ("You can come down now") is that she is trying to keep her dad from finding out the elemental's presence. You interpretation *would* explain the absurd rooming decisions, but I'm not too sure it's the answer yet. Another idea: Someone / something that we do not yet know is helping Athony or pretending to help him, while playing another game... manipulating him and / or Annie. But who would that be ? Coyote ? Or someone we didn't meet yet? Seems a bit crazy, but...
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Post by aline on Jun 30, 2015 13:06:39 GMT
I seem to be the only one to think Anthony might be the evildoer. We have strong reason to believe that he's spent years trying to find out how to remove the fire elemental, in order to complete his work and save his daughter from her mother's fate. What a coincidence that Annie would end up doing exactly that the minute he comes back? My crazy theory is: - Removing the fire elemental was Tony's plan all along. He only came back to the court because he finally found how to do it, and he went on with it the minute he had enough alone time with his daughter. - Annie was either talked into it, or only managed some last minute safeguards to protect her elemental nature - Maybe she cut off the elemental herself to protect it from Tony's procedure, which might have destroyed it? - Tony didn't expect for the elemental to stay as a flatmate, Annie is hiding the fact from him - He didn't expect either that Annie wouldn't be or stay the good HomeworkIsMyLife he thought he had. Now that he's done, he's decided to go on with life and never mention any of the events again, but Annie has other plans.
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Post by aline on Jun 30, 2015 5:46:52 GMT
And I suspect this is why schedules and to-do lists help so many. It's on the list, check it off, move on. I haven't decided whether or not I want to try that out, though, it sounds kind of confining. That and it helps to not forget stuff. Usually people try it when it becomes really tough to get the job done without it. If you don't need it, don't do it.
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Post by aline on Jun 29, 2015 18:48:04 GMT
Turns out I can't edit the poll afterwards, at least I don't see any option to do this. Too bad, I think "It's all Coyote's fault" is a nice theory!
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