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Post by TBeholder on Aug 26, 2015 9:04:48 GMT
While we have no information on it yet... I have a strange suspicion that if Annie learns the nature of "the program", she will NOT see the same value in her participation as Anthony does - and in the unlikely case this value will be at all positive, it would be for a completely different reasons. Anyone wants to bet? There is still one big unanswered question: did they ask him to rein her in "or else", or did he make a plea for her case and they accepted? Or some third option, like pretending to accept it but still planning on expelling her anyway. My guess is that they made it look like they want him back and used Annie as a bargaining chip, rather than the other way around. That is, playing on Anthony's sense of self-importance. I still think they sent him away in the first place on a mission only marginally more worthy than a fool's errand, of course. If it was that important, they won't send him alone. Or maybe even what Tony is saying now is not the whole truth. He may be... economical with the truth. "banish her from the Court and the program entirely." [...] What's to stop her from living in Gillitie after that? I know, and you know, that Annie is a honorary citizen of the Forest, and if told she isn't part of the Court anymore, she would simply walk across the bridge. And then she will return with some petty errant from Coyote twice per month, until either the Headmaster is driven stark raving mad, he resigns, or such things will be handed privately between Mediums and she can chat with Kat at will. Because Annie knows she can get a raise out of Jonathan Llanwellyn, and also knows lots of the Court's little secrets that can be offhandedly alluded to before all the public, including her personal acquaintances who will pay attention. Tony does not know, and probably couldn't see it the same way even if he did. |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 26, 2015 9:10:33 GMT
Anthony may have not realized that there is a chance that Annie doesn't want to be part of that "program"... he doesn't have the broadest of minds...
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Post by speedwell on Aug 26, 2015 9:32:15 GMT
There's another "program". It's what Donald and Anja use, and what Jack Hyland used, and what the etheric generator facility uses, to bridge the gap between the etheric and the material worlds in order to produce meaningful activity and generate effects. Hasn't anyone wondered why such a thing has such effects on what we think is "reality"? Gunnerkrigg Court and the Forest are somehow "hidden". Are they virtual? Is being expelled from the "program" tantamount to true, no-way-back banishment with loss of access to the etheric? What would that mean to someone whose very descent is part etheric? I can see a hint of "and if the fire dies, so does my last chance to being Surma back" in Anthony's tears in the last panel.
Also, let me remind everyone, Reynardine is not unlikely to be in the desk drawer, or somewhere else nearby, where wolf ears can pick up every word and etheric eyes of power can see Antimony in the background.
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haspen
Full Member
Hat Kat
Posts: 131
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Post by haspen on Aug 26, 2015 9:43:26 GMT
*reads today comic*
Oh snap v:
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Aug 26, 2015 10:00:50 GMT
There's another "program". It's what Donald and Anja use, and what Jack Hyland used, and what the etheric generator facility uses, to bridge the gap between the etheric and the material worlds in order to produce meaningful activity and generate effects. Hasn't anyone wondered why such a thing has such effects on what we think is "reality"? Gunnerkrigg Court and the Forest are somehow "hidden". Are they virtual? Is being expelled from the "program" tantamount to true, no-way-back banishment with loss of access to the etheric? What would that mean to someone whose very descent is part etheric? I can see a hint of "and if the fire dies, so does my last chance to being Surma back" in Anthony's tears in the last panel. Also, let me remind everyone, Reynardine is not unlikely to be in the desk drawer, or somewhere else nearby, where wolf ears can pick up every word and etheric eyes of power can see Antimony in the background. this is some matrix poopery youre talking about i dont know what to think anymore |
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Post by calpal on Aug 26, 2015 10:17:32 GMT
Wait, so he never wanted to see Annie again but the prospect of her being banished from the Court program after graduation was enough to make him return? Why? Why is it important for Annie to participate in this program? Or was it just the prospect of Annie practically becoming homeless with the expulsion? Hmm... More than likely, the reason he wants to keep her in Gunnerkrigg Court is because it has always been Surma's wish that Annie lives in Gunnerkrigg Court after her passing. I doubt it was written in a will or anything, but either way, the Court would be breaking Surma's wish either way by banishing her from the Court, before or after being convocated for graduation. I don't think Tony would want Surma's wishes to be trampled in the ground by the very Court she once worked for. |
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Post by fish on Aug 26, 2015 10:36:28 GMT
Wait, so he never wanted to see Annie again but the prospect of her being banished from the Court program after graduation was enough to make him return? Why? Why is it important for Annie to participate in this program? Or was it just the prospect of Annie practically becoming homeless with the expulsion? Hmm... It's not that the Court is going to banish her after graduation. It's that she won't ever get the chance to graduate. The Court was going to pull the ultimate douchebag move and let her continue her schooling until right about she was going to finish, and just not let her graduate on graduation day. They're no strangers to public humiliation. (see: Changes) I get that. But the panel in which Tony is crying is the one with the "banish her from the program" speech part. This tells me the emphasis lies on the Court program. Wait, so he never wanted to see Annie again but the prospect of her being banished from the Court program after graduation was enough to make him return? Why? Why is it important for Annie to participate in this program? Or was it just the prospect of Annie practically becoming homeless with the expulsion? Hmm... This program is more important than the school, the school is just a pretext to get people with etheric capability in the Court. Tony seems to think this program could be beneficial for his daughter; no idea why. Let's reopen the the wild spec thread.  I also believe the Court and it's ominous programs must have some merit or value, despite them seeming so sinister and unethical right now. Otherwise good-natured people like Donald and Anja wouldn't stay to participate. Unless of course a) they are not as good-natured as I think, b) they do not know of and suspect any sinister goings-on in the deeper circles of the Court or c) they are blackmailed or otherwise manipulated into staying. [speculation] Maybe that's why we haven't seen any Court-born-and-raised siblings so far. The more children you get the more blackmail material you provide, haha. [/speculation] |
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Post by fish on Aug 26, 2015 10:41:40 GMT
[...] If the business with the forest annoyed them so much why was Antimony ever allowed to be a medium in training? They probably thought they could foster another Surma, a medium willing to screw with the forest creatures if ordered to. She blatantly went against their order to NOT listen to Coyote's job offer. I'd be pissed as well, to be honest. |
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Post by keef on Aug 26, 2015 10:49:11 GMT
Gunnerkrigg Court and the Forest are somehow "hidden". Are they virtual? This has been on my mind for a long time. But in the gunnerverse the ether and magic are real. Students coming to the court with etheric talents are scouted in the real world. Even from Cardiff. So it can't be completely like the Matrix. |
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Post by alexsl on Aug 26, 2015 10:59:16 GMT
Program = probably Gunnerkrigg Court's career plan for former students as researchers, engineers, teachers, medical staff or security. (Have I forgotten any jobs that aren't done by robots?) And yes, being banished from GC would hurt for somebody whose primary talents are magic, whose education is idiosyncratically Gunnerkriggian (potential lack of marketable skills outside), and who has all their friends in GC and Gillitie.
What is more, if the omega device is unexpectedly not an ominous anti-Gillitie superweapon but instead a project for ascension to the next level of existence or whatnot then the risk of having his daughter miss out on it would also be a motivation.
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Looking at this page, an obvious question is what they are so pissed of about. What harm is Annie's mediumship causing, really? She is doing what one would expect a good diplomat to do.
Possibility one: Llanwellyn is hurt in his pride because of what happened in Changes, that's all. In that case he's a tool.
Possibility two: GC considers its position to be one of weakness (see below), and everybody who isn't totally hostile towards the wood is considered a traitor. Bit irrational, but that's human.
Possibility three: GC considers its position to be one of strength and does not have any interest in closer ties or reconciliation with the forest because they are planning to wipe it out with the omega device and don't want anybody having second thoughts about that.
As always too little data at this point.
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One thing I always wonder about is how powerful Tom Siddell is envisioning his Coyote to be. Could he destroy Gunnerkrigg Court if he ever got seriously concerned about what they are doing? Do they have defences against a god? But for the psychology of GC in this story, the more important question is actually merely whether they believe that he can.
What the reader has been told about the history is that there was a fight, and it sounds as if it could have gone either way, potentially with GC a bit stronger because they have technology. Then comes Coyote and just divides the landscape with a stroke of his claw, things suddenly happen on his terms, and he guarantees the untouchability of the forest side. That would have to be very scary to the Court leadership. What if Coyote decides to changes the bargain? What, again, if he decides that a big smoking crater on the other side of the Annan Waters would look much better than a research institute?
So that might make it plausible for the Court to be extremely paranoid about anybody being friends with Coyote. (Surma demonstrated that she was firmly on the Court's side by her treatment of Renard.)
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I know this is getting ridiculously long, but I haven't commented for some time. So final speculative thought re why Tony is so nasty to his daughter: He isolates her from all distractions and pushes her very hard to get up to speed in school, so that she cannot be expelled any more; presumably even the Court leaders have to follow some rules. And he maintains emotional distance and a cold shoulder so that she won't miss him when he leaves her forever after having brought her back on track. He plans to do so because he still doesn't think he deserves her, as he repeatedly mentioned during this chapter.
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Post by corruptuser on Aug 26, 2015 11:14:16 GMT
Annie joined GK in the middle of the first year. We could be missing out on First Year orientations that explain the whole "program".
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Post by zimmyzims on Aug 26, 2015 11:16:31 GMT
I don't really get what's happening - who exactly are the Evil Faceless Men (how do they get to be in charge and make evil plans is my question)? If the business with the forest annoyed them so much why was Antimony ever allowed to be a medium in training? I don't even see how the "business with the forest" could "piss them off" - what was she doing that was so bad for them? Is it forest-related or Jeanne-related? *keeps adding question marks* Archive binge needed here. Antimony was allowed in the medium training before she started to hustle with the Forest. It was her hustling that got her unselected as the medium, and then she continued to rebel against their orders by accepting the job of the Forest medium. Read the chapters thoroughly, not just the pages I linked. but I wonder if they're not lying to Anthony. 1)Anthony is valuable to them and they want him back 2)They're mildly annoyed by Antimony and her shenanigans 3)Anthony refuses to come back and Antimony refuses to listen 4) They put them back together with threats 5) Dystopialand back on track I think it's very likely that they're lying to Anthony, and tricking him to come back in any case. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Aug 26, 2015 11:19:19 GMT
I really want to know what exactly does he refer with "the program". Donny Donlan seems to be completely aware of it, and both of them eagerly want their kids to be a part of that program.
Also, Anthony came back just to save his little girl, because she's all he cares about. Just suck it up, haters!
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CGAdam
Junior Member
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Post by CGAdam on Aug 26, 2015 11:24:34 GMT
This seems to explain why he set her back, at least. By holding her back a year, he's putting more time on the game clock- an extra year before graduation. By making her redo all the work, he's reducing the leverage the Court has to use against Annie.
It might even explain why he pulled her out of the dorms and into that sterile room, and maybe even why he lives with no creature comforts. The Court puts trackers in the food, remember? Who's to say they don't have all the dorm rooms and furniture bugged, too? Maybe that whole white room is essentially a Faraday cage, cutting off any signals from people that visit (ie, Kat). Maybe the reason it's so stark right now is that's all the furniture they've let through the screening process.
Or I could be totally wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 26, 2015 11:26:16 GMT
My god we all failed. It was Occam's razor the whole time. All these complex psychological theories about why Tony is being a dick and it's just the simplest one. "Somebody is making him do it". Bringing in new entities is the opposite of Occam's razor.  Also, "Gollum made him do it"? This doesn't automatically explain away everything: I am not quite ready to have a love-fest here. Even with this revelation, I am not seeing anything that couldn't have been better handled with old-fashioned honesty. Maybe, maybe not, but... Did the faceless representatives of the Court (which Louis "The Court" is?) tell him to, specifically, start with public humiliation of Annie during the first minute of meeting her? Or not, and they merely meant what was said? Or it was all vague, but whoever arranged this knew Tony is going to act like a complete jackass? Bad news: How the heck will Tony and Annie be able to have a frank face-to-face conversation without raising the Court's suspicions? Do you think they both are willing and ready to do so? Otherwise it's a non-issue. much like he didn't fully appreciate the danger of what he did in the desert until he actually tried it, he won't fully appreciate his daughter's ability to handle herself until he witnesses it. In other words, his actions were the inevitability of a man who doesn't know a damn thing about the person he's trying to protect. Why stop here after you traced the whole path? "Doesn't know a damn thing about what he's trying to do". he probably has a very specific set of ideas of how things are supposed to go with her, which doesn't take into account how things might have changed since the last time he saw her. He probably has a very specific set of ideas of how things are supposed to go in general (rather than how they are). Which again, is another knowledge gap issue. That too, but so far the only one who pays attention to such things is Donald. Really, the only thing that we did learn is that the Court is more closely monitoring Antimony than before, which may provide an explanation for her current housing situation. Or not. I'm morbidly curious as to whether Annie after this reminder will try to drive her hypothetical watchers to suicide, or at least embarrassment. The Court is now a real threat to her and a damn big one. How so? She works for a god. Also, if they really watch her so much, they know whose fingerprint is on the Moon, and can make an educated guess as to how it got there. Tony, Tony. What's to stop the Court doing it anyway once they have no need of you? Because they supposedly need him. He believes it. So what's the possibility that The Court is the one that set up Anthony with the fake psychopomps, in order to weaken/damage/destroy Antimony, then? [...] Coyote loses his Medium without the Court being implicated. This requires being far, far more deft with ether that "pump it in"/"dump it out" level we have observed. And/or someone highly qualified in such matters, which in itself creates risks and one more liability, potentially far worse than a snooping kid with dubious attention span who think herself more sneaky than she is. Almost certainly one of the reasons, yes. If the business with the forest annoyed them so much why was Antimony ever allowed to be a medium in training? I don't even see how the "business with the forest" could "piss them off" - what was she doing that was so bad for them? It's not the same "business" any more. Let's keep in mind the summary: - After witnessing how Annie slapped Coyote, the Headmaster complimented her and personally invited into Medium training. - After it turned out that Annie gets along with that crowd splendidly, he changed his opinion and chose Smitface. - When Coyote used this opening and Annie agreed, Jonathan Llanwellyn lost his poker-face. On his scale it's the look of suddenly having several fresh and fully glazed bricks in the pants. an obvious question is what they are so pissed of about. What harm is Annie's mediumship causing, really? She is doing what one would expect a good diplomat to do. Maybe, that's the point. Maybe the very fact that there is actual communication beyond the support of transfers back and forth. Then both Mediums being from a team used to work together is the worst-case scenario. Jonathan could expect Smitty's ability will bore or piss off the Forest creatures, especially 'Grin. Or expect Smitty himself to be a pushover. Oops. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 26, 2015 12:00:29 GMT
Really, the only thing that we did learn is that the Court is more closely monitoring Antimony than before, which may provide an explanation for her current housing situation. Or not. I'm morbidly curious as to whether Annie after this reminder will try to drive her hypothetical watchers to suicide, or at least embarrassment. Her powers would make it easy to give them something to watch. Or to make diversions so that she can escape for a while. But whatever she does it will probably be cheeky at worst, I'm sad to say. Since chapter #32 I've been convinced that the comic features a slightly idealized version of the kids and probably people in general. Seriously, a Court full of robots and students who can make drones and maybe guide them with magic? And no curtains in the dorm porthole windows? If the kids were real kids Antimony and the gang would have spent all their time trying to solve the mystery of why the inventor of the amphibious "drain-sized" paparazzi-bot is suddenly *flush with cash, and why nobody's able to look anyone else in the eye anymore... |
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Post by Eisenblume on Aug 26, 2015 12:01:21 GMT
So the Court is terrible and Gillitie Forest is terrible. Rock, meet hard place.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Aug 26, 2015 12:01:57 GMT
Now who's the bigger jerks, those etheric hooligans or the Court?
But seriously, the Court may still not know the truth about Jeanne and, as this page indicates, may only be upset with Annie for cozying up to the Forest. If the Court doesn't know about Jeanne, then the immediate threat Annie posed to the Court is messing up their plan to contain Reynard.
Annie told Reynard she would let him return to the Forest in her Year 8 dorm room that was not swept for bugs. The Court can't tolerate that risk and had to separate Reynard from Annie. Headmaster tried nicely (in his own dickish way). So the Court manipulated Anthony into thinking he needed to return to help Annie and taking Reynard was part of helping her. Now that they've separated Annie and Reynard, the Court may not be very concerned about Annie one way or another.
There is a chance that the Court knows that Annie passed ownership to Kat because it occurred in the carriage that was not swept for bugs and near a robotic horse that may be reporting stuff back to the Court. Kat owning Reynard may not be what the Courted wanted, but the Court may accept it at the moment because it achieved their immediate goal and they have every reason to believe that Kat is loyal to the Court or will do what her parents tell her. If the Court knows, then they haven't told Anthony about Reynald. The Court may or may not have told Donald and Anja about Reynard and I don't know why they would keep it from them.
EDIT: Kat was searching Anthony's desk looking for something that explained why he came back to the Court, and Reynard was sitting right in front of her.
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
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Post by pasko on Aug 26, 2015 12:10:58 GMT
I'll be damned if one on the men in grey isn't Llanwellyn himself.
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Post by justcurious on Aug 26, 2015 12:19:06 GMT
The Court has not thought things through. They would pay a terrible price for expelling Annie in such a way. Doing that would make Kat into a very dangerous and very strongly motivated enemy of the part of the leadership responsible.
Despite her brilliance they do not take her seriously. They might think that they could persuade Kat to accept this. Not a chance. They have no idea just how much influence she has over the robots. They take the robots for granted. They seem not to realize that the robots serve the court for their own reasons, because their activity on humans' behalf fill a need of theirs. The robots are not chattels and have their own culture of which the Court either is unaware of or ignores. Having the robots turn against them, effectively going on strike rather than doing a Frankenstein's monster is not something that has entered their minds.
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arzeik
Junior Member
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Post by arzeik on Aug 26, 2015 12:30:36 GMT
Also, Anthony came back just to save his little girl, because she's all he cares about. Just suck it up, haters! I would say she's not the only thing he cared about during his three years of absence. But anyway, it's still an option Annie (just as dragons and slaying) doesn't need being saved so much these days. I mean, for sure, she was (and is) in trouble with the court, and I think it's fair to say that she's the main responsible of that situation (cheating, running away, acting sometimes like she was untouchable...). But it's still uncertain wether Anthony's actions will make an improvement in this situation or not; and, most important thing, he could have also asked Annie for her opinion and thoughts instead of just doing what he thought was best for her. I guess the Court made (and makes) things difficult, but leaving her alone and doing the things he did the way he did them when he returned were pretty much his choice. Anyway, I wouldn't call myself a "hater", nor would I have a while ago. What I disliked of him (and continue to dislike, although maybe in a minor degree) were his actions: the way he left Annie alone when she was a little girl that had just lost her mother (his choice, out of guilt, yes, but a bad choice) and the way he treated her when he returned (the Court somehow forced that, but I didn't get the feeling that Tony put that much effort in making her daughter feel better). In brief, I'm glad to know Anthony isn't evil (not that I ever thought he was plain evil), that he cares about his daughter, and that he is in some way trying to do what is best for her. But that, in my book, doesn't simply turn him into a good father. *** And about "the Court". Each new page I read is making me more curious about what the hell "the Court" is (apart from man's endeavour to become god). Who has the power, who makes the decisions? I doubt it's just the headmaster and I doubt even more it's some sort of democracy. It's been said that the Court is a group of people that do things the way they think they must be done; but for we know, that has led to some pretty fucked up decisions. |
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 26, 2015 12:37:28 GMT
Alright, so someone clear this up:
Lately, the thriving opinion is that Tony's a self-obsessed, or otherwise egotistical, person who values himself far above any other people. I've heard claims that he overstates his abilities knowingly; that he believes himself to be incredibly important to everyone; that any attempt to resurrect his dead wife is just one avenue of his trying to play god; and others.
Where in the text do we (a major part of the forum) specifically get some kind of validation that Tony's an egomaniac? This kinda cropped up out of nowhere.
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 26, 2015 12:46:07 GMT
Well. ASSUMING THAT TONY WAS BEING HONEST HERE, that...changes some things, to put it lightly. My feelings are in flux to do with Tony and the Court, and honestly, I'm more than a bit irked with Tom as well. Because you see, I kind of predicted this forever ago...in sarcasm, saying that I hoped Tom didn't do a solution of this kind: And in light of what we know, Tony's actions aren't looking too good right now. With each page, it seems harder for Tom to craft Tony's motive such that random petty actions towards Antimony are necessary/acceptable*. Thus, I am judging Tony harshly until future notice, or until we have more information, because (nearly) all of the information we have so far leads us there. *(without the reasoning seeming like a deus ex machina, eg "Ah, Antimony, the Court was watching me through my nanites and unless I undermined your confidence as far as possible they would destroy us both!")YMMV, but to me, it's just too neat of a solution. Everything bad Tony did? The Court made him do it. So he goes from a very interesting, tortured character who turned his grief upon his daughter (not without his own twisted reason) to...just being a tortured heroic guy, who never intended any harm he did. Just seems like a cop-out, to speak frankly, since it sidesteps all of the moral gray areas in his previous actions ("Oh, sure! It was wrong, but the Court made him do it, so he's absolved of blame!"). I recognize, however, that a good portion of this disappointment stems from my mental inertia, and reluctance to shift my mental frame so abruptly and suddenly. Plus my frustration for having been (possibly?) partially on the wrong side of the debate for months. And I know it's Tom's story, and I have no right to complain. He has the right to create his story however he feels like, without having to worry about our opinions for what his characters "should be". That being said, I trusted him to craft a powerful character for Tony (since he's always been one of the major mysteries of the comic), and I just feel a little deflated because I expected...something more to the character who may be the lynchpin to the story. And perhaps that "something more" will arrive soon! The chapter isn't over yet. I am glad Tony cares though, although I wish he had found a way to show it to Annie. If they do find a way to reconcile with each other, good - Annie needs as many supporters as possible, and it might do her good to have another human critical of the Court near her. But back to story analysis!
What is this Program? Is it connected to our MacGuffin-of-the-moment, the Omega Device? What (if anything) would prevent Annie from simply living in the Forest when she would be expelled? How does all of this connect to the mysterious non-school activities also going on at the Court? What is the Court, anyway? Were they reining in Annie's interference with the Forest/Court diplomacy, or her dangerous delving into forbidden elements of the Court's own past? (My vote, on that last one, is both.) Will this revelation let Annie start to get her "fire" back ( please?)? So many questions! (Which is definitely a good thing.) Tom really is a master of suspense, and creating mysteries with few words. |
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Post by todd on Aug 26, 2015 13:04:51 GMT
I also believe the Court and it's ominous programs must have some merit or value, despite them seeming so sinister and unethical right now. Otherwise good-natured people like Donald and Anja wouldn't stay to participate. Unless of course a) they are not as good-natured as I think, b) they do not know of and suspect any sinister goings-on in the deeper circles of the Court or c) they are blackmailed or otherwise manipulated into staying. Most likely the Donlans, Eglamore, and the others aren't privy to the secrets of the "Inner Circle" at the Court (or believe, like Paz, that they can somehow steer it in the right direction). I don't think that the Court is malevolent in the sense of "mad scientists plotting world domination", but I do believe that its meddling with the ether is extremely dangerous (the inhabitants of Gilltie Wood, despite their faults, seem to me to have some legitimate concerns about those experiments) - but in the manner of someone so filled with curiosity and wanting to know why that he ignores the dangers involved. And it's definitely engaged in a lot of bad deeds such as the murder of Jeanne and deceiving Renard. (Indeed, given the Court's record, it makes sense that it's moving against Annie, not because of repeated cheating, but because it sees her activiites as a threat to itself.) As I've mentioned in the past, I think that the Court's seeking to become God is Coyote's perspective on it, rather than how the Court sees itself. It's trying to understand and control the ether - most likely out of a thirst for knowledge, rather than to use it as a weapon - but in so doing, would gain a god-like power, and one that it probably couldn't be trusted with. (Remember Jones' warning about how those experiments could result in unleashing all the horrors of humanity's myths and legends upon the world.) Let's hope that by the end of the webcomic, someone will have been able to bring the Court to its senses and get it to abandon its delving into the ether. (And it wouldn't have to live in fear of Gilltie any more once it did that - I assume that the whole reason why it's living next door to the forest is because it's the only place it can perform those experiments. I've thought that those problems with Gilltie could have been solved, without all those acts like murdering Jeanne, by simply going to live somewhere else, somewhere not near a forest filled with suspicious and hostile etheric beings. I know it's not something to do casually - I had to move from my home of almost sixteen years a few months ago, and it wasn't easy for me, so I'd not wish such a fate on anyone lightly - but it might be a better solution than living in fear of an offensive from Gilltie and staying only to carry out some inadvisable forays into the etheric - and have we even seen the Court do anything useful or beneficial with the results of those experiments?) I hope it won't require a more drastic solution (on the level, say, of the fall of N.I.C.E. in "That Hideous Strength"). I do wonder about the Court's plans to expel Annie, since I can see two drawbacks with that: 1. Reynardine. Annie would probably take him with her, in which case they wouldn't be able to keep watch over him. And they can't take him from her without freeimg him to possess other people as he wishes (the higher-ups presumably don't realize that Renard is remorseful about his past acts). 2. Annie herself. She'd be outside its surveillance, a person who knows a lot about its doings, too much, and could be anywhere. Unless "expel" was a euphemism.... |
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Ender
Junior Member
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Post by Ender on Aug 26, 2015 13:46:56 GMT
I kind of wish Kat was hearing this. What would she think of Tony now? It also sucks, because now if Annie tries to defend him, Kat might think she's being delusional like we did before.
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Post by sable0aria on Aug 26, 2015 13:48:21 GMT
I keep seeing many people feeling conflicted about Anthony because of today's page when all I can think is "Well Tony, if you had actually attempted to be a father, and been there to guide and advise Antimony the court at least might no have so much leverage against her, or you. While we're at it how about pulling your head out of your ass and caring about how Annie actually feels rather than how you think she should feel?"
I mean he wouldn't have even had to be at the court with her, just give her some kind of means to contact him when she needed to.
And now for something completely different:
Is the court like some kind of Illuminati organization that actually exist in the GC universe? Their surveillance abilities at least seem to go pretty far, but I wonder how much political power, and such the court has beyond its walls.
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Post by edzepp on Aug 26, 2015 14:13:43 GMT
Daedalus: We only have the story as it goes, so we can't see the end game, but I'm not sure Tony is being let off the hook just yet. Throughout the comic we've seen numerous times how Tony's absence hurts Annie, and how she always tries to make excuses for him. That part absolutely has to be addressed, or I'd consider that wasted storytelling. I think we'll get to that at some point. I hope we do. But what Donny is doing here, and what he always has tried to do whenever he's discussed Tony with Annie, is to break the illusions she has about her father. Like the flashback in Microsat-1. He's showing Annie what Tony is really like underneath that cold stoicism. How she chooses to respond to all this is key to the progress of this story. And how I hope it goes is that she realizes that, love or not, Tony is in absolutely no shape to be a parent. His psyche is clearly shot to hell and he is suffering great depression and torment. The situation is toxic, and she needs to break free of it. It may be the only way she can help him. But then, Annie and Tony have always been a little stupid when it comes to simply asking for help, even from people who care about them.
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Post by speedwell on Aug 26, 2015 14:20:03 GMT
....And how I hope it goes is that she realizes that, love or not, Tony is in absolutely no shape to be a parent. His psyche is clearly shot to hell and he is suffering great depression and torment. The relationship is toxic, and she needs to break free of the toxic environment she is in. It may be the only way she can help him. But then, Annie and Tony have always been a little stupid when it comes to simply asking for help, even from people who care about them. Quoted for m*****f****** truth. |
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Post by pxc on Aug 26, 2015 14:20:34 GMT
I keep seeing many people feeling conflicted about Anthony because of today's page when all I can think is "Well Tony, if you had actually attempted to be a father, and been there to guide and advise Antimony the court at least might no have so much leverage against her, or you. While we're at it how about pulling your head out of your ass and caring about how Annie actually feels rather than how you think she should feel?" I mean he wouldn't have even had to be at the court with her, just give her some kind of means to contact him when she needed to. And now for something completely different: Is the court like some kind of Illuminati organization that actually exist in the GC universe? Their surveillance abilities at least seem to go pretty far, but I wonder how much political power, and such the court has beyond its walls. Agreed. This all could've been avoided if he hadn't abandoned her in the first place. And I doubt the Court included being a complete dick as one of their demands. "You need to rein her in. And be really mean about it! Make fun of her make-up!" I don't understand why keeping her at GC is important to Tony. He and Surma left the Court and did not intend to return. Surma didn't want Annie to be born there. And yet, she wanted Annie to go there to school? And despite wanting to never come back to GC Tony did anyway... to keep Annie there and make sure she graduates from the institution that he and his dead wife both seemed to dislike so much? Why? If they're so invasive and dangerous, and she's been exposed to dangerous entities while under the school's "protection", why wouldn't he voluntarily withdraw her and put her in a more traditional school? There's still a big piece of the puzzle we are missing. |
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Post by edzepp on Aug 26, 2015 14:24:17 GMT
....And how I hope it goes is that she realizes that, love or not, Tony is in absolutely no shape to be a parent. His psyche is clearly shot to hell and he is suffering great depression and torment. The relationship is toxic, and she needs to break free of the toxic environment she is in. It may be the only way she can help him. But then, Annie and Tony have always been a little stupid when it comes to simply asking for help, even from people who care about them. Quoted for m*****f****** truth. Why thank you. I put a lot of effort into it. |
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There is still one big unanswered question: did they ask him to rein her in "or else", or did he make a plea for her case and they accepted? Or some third option, like pretending to accept it but still planning on expelling her anyway.
