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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 17, 2015 7:33:21 GMT
Kat - you're speaking my language. I'd be verging on apocalyptic rage too if I saw my best friend treating my other best friend like this. I'd hope that disappointment and anger will get through to Annie, and trigger a "what am I doing?!" moment. But Annie seems so "what is this emotion you call rage? Why are you angry?" all of a sudden. She who seemed to understand the responsibility, and burden, of holding someone's shackles so well - and yet she's so easily forgotten her willingness to fight for Rey. Or, it seems, that Rey is worth fighting for. Annie's blank, wide eyes... very scary. Even more than that - I'm finding her sudden switch to the very formal to be quite creepy. "Forbade him"? "He made a big fuss when I told him I am to give him to my father"?* Annie had clearly been effected by all this, but something's seriously wrong that'd she'd just... treat Rey like that. Closest she came was when they fought, and even then she didn't just flip his off switch and stick him in a box. And that was a roller coaster of emotion - she seems so cold and oblivious to why this bad now. *Am I the only one who heard that in the voice of the Village of the Damned kids? |
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Post by Max on Apr 17, 2015 7:33:45 GMT
He would be free, unless Annie voluntarily gave him to Kat, which I doubt right now. Here's the catch: does Kat know that this would happen? Because if Kat knew that theft would free Rey, she'd definitely do it. Annie knows this, because Jimmy Jims elucidated it way back in Chapter 9. Kat and Annie are/were close, so it all comes down to how faithfully Annie's reported this conversation to Kat. The conversation also kind of implies that one of the main reasons the Court has left Reynardine alone is that he is under Annie's control and trapped in that body. Take the contract away, and he loses that protection. And they definitely still want him back. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Apr 17, 2015 7:33:53 GMT
Annie is freaking me out here. I don't think she even knows what she is doing is wrong or hurtful.
Come on Kat, we have all our hopes on you!
---
Here she comes to save the day!
at least I hope so
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Post by keef on Apr 17, 2015 7:36:15 GMT
Now, Kat, please steal Rey ! Rey will either be yours or be free, and then, that should be interesting. He would be free, unless Annie voluntarily gave him to Kat, which I doubt right now. Here's the catch: does Kat know that this would happen? Because if Kat knew that theft would free Rey, she'd definitely do it. What if Kat ran away without thinking, taking Rey with her? Annie is freaking me out here. I don't think she even knows what she is doing is wrong or hurtful. Like a hypnotised chicken. If she has no free will at the moment, could you still say she is giving Rey to her father? |
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artezzatrigger
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Post by artezzatrigger on Apr 17, 2015 7:38:43 GMT
Its pretty ironic that the thing that finally makes Kat reach her tipping point is something that she wouldn't have batted an eye at so very long ago.
Its really a testament to how much he has changed over the years.
There are many ways this can end badly, but judging by Kats reaction, I think we can throw Renards enslavement to Anthony out the window. Either by persuasion or by force, you don't mess with Kats friends.
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 17, 2015 7:50:36 GMT
He would be free, unless Annie voluntarily gave him to Kat, which I doubt right now. Here's the catch: does Kat know that this would happen? Because if Kat knew that theft would free Rey, she'd definitely do it. What if Kat ran away without thinking, taking Rey with her? I was contemplating that; it doesn't seem unlikely, and it would parallel how Annie ran away during Fire Spike. Maybe Kat would even try to visit Coyote, to get him to break the containment altogether? <-- (doubtful but would be awesome) But we don't know if that would break the contract, or if it would count as theft. Tom's always been a bit vague with the exact terms of Rey's confinement. But Annie seems so "what is this emotion you call rage? Why are you angry?" all of a sudden. She who seemed to understand the responsibility, and burden, of holding someone's shackles so well - and yet she's so easily forgotten her willingness to fight for Rey. Or, it seems, that Rey is worth fighting for. I really do see parallels to this page of Freefall. And that page made me scream in instinctual intellectual horror. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 17, 2015 7:52:35 GMT
Also - man, talk about a "I have no mouth, and I must scream" moment. Just think what it must be like for Rey, to be trapped in there unable to talk or act or anything.
*Shudder*
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Post by SilverbackRon on Apr 17, 2015 8:00:17 GMT
Like a hypnotised chicken. Awesome line. I am almost considering changing my signature to that. |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 17, 2015 8:02:04 GMT
So, my current outlook on this chapter: BEST CASE (one or more of the following): -Annie breaks down in tears and Kat talks her through this, and tells her she can disobey her father. -Kat steals Rey, and either that breaks the containment, or she goes to either Coyote or her mother to do so. -Annie at the last moment decides to refuse to give Rey to her father. Without her consent nothing bad can happen. -Annie regains her 'inner fire', and stands up to her father and refuses to take sh*t like this from him again. -Rey and Annie came to an agreement in the unseen conversation (unlikely) -Rey, by whatever method, jumps into Anthony's body. "Would kill again in defense of a friend", remember. -It was all, in the end, a dream or simulation (cop out on Tom's part) WORST CASE: - "and she never saw her again"
Also - man, talk about a "I have no mouth, and I must scream" moment. Just think what it must be like for Rey, to be trapped in there unable to talk or act or anything. *Shudder* This highlights something that has always been an undertone in Renard's situation: that anyone having absolute control over you is dangerous and terrifying. It's been made clear that Annie can't make Rey think what she wants him to think, but the power to make him wait without any control or freedom of motion, while other people debate his fate? That's the stuff of nightmares. Great minds think alike  |
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madragoran
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Post by madragoran on Apr 17, 2015 8:08:41 GMT
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
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Post by Rasselas on Apr 17, 2015 8:10:27 GMT
This page has me going: FINALLY. I hope Kat's going to punch some sense back into Annie. It's really criminal, when Rey has only been staying there to be her close friend. He could've accepted her offer to set him free, long ago. He could've been frolicking in the Forest with Coyote. Instead, she's going to give him to Anthony, of all people. It's almost as bad as giving him over back to the Court, maybe is the same thing, maybe even worse as Anthony is an unknown to us.
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 17, 2015 8:29:50 GMT
I'm actually starting to worry just a little bit that mind control may be a factor here. I mean, I didn't expect her to have snapped out of it and decided to tell her dad to go to hell about getting control over Reynardine just yet, but I kind of expected her to be more unhappy about everything that's happened. More upset. She seems pretty robotic here. (I completely acknowledge this could be just because she's been so blindsided though.) And...all the times we've seen Surma after she hooked up with Anthony...was she ever wearing her make up? Granted she was in the hospital, but Tony could've brought her make up from home the way Kat brought Annie her make up after she passed out in Divine. And when she was with Eglamore she was in school...and she was wearing her make up.
Bear in mind this is just me thinking out loud, but even just considering what I'm considering is giving me a spooky feeling.
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 17, 2015 8:37:35 GMT
I don't know what to be more disturbed by: the fact that Annie could treat Rey like a political prisoner changing wardens after all their shared history and trust, or the fact that her father was capable of achieving that.
I see Kats taking the brute force approach to diplomacy here, if only because she's too shocked and angry to do anything else.
I have the horrible feeling Rey will be stolen by Kat, breaking his bonds, saving him... and this being how he remembers and sees Annie in the future. A traitor, just like mum; like mother like daughter.
Which right now, she is! Save Renard Kat, get him to safety. I think Annie is in (slightly) less immediate danger!
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Apr 17, 2015 8:46:37 GMT
It's not mind control. She was like this when the comic started, because when your father decides everything for you, you have no personality. It took quite a while for Annie to start acting normal.
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artezzatrigger
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Post by artezzatrigger on Apr 17, 2015 8:46:44 GMT
I'm actually starting to worry just a little bit that mind control may be a factor here. I mean, I didn't expect her to have snapped out of it and decided to tell her dad to go to hell about getting control over Reynardine just yet, but I kind of expected her to be more unhappy about everything that's happened. More upset. She seems pretty robotic here. (I completely acknowledge this could be just because she's been so blindsided though.) And...all the times we've seen Surma after she hooked up with Anthony...was she ever wearing her make up? Granted she was in the hospital, but Kat brought Annie her make up after she passed out in Divine. And when she was with Eglamore she was in school...and she was wearing her make up. Bear in mind this is just me thinking out loud, but even just considering what I'm considering is giving me a spooky feeling. Its more than likely just a defense mechanism. Annie has never been good at dealing with sadness, and now shes being ripped away from everything she has built up over the past several years by the one person she wants approval from the most. Something like that would make anyone passive for at least a little while. Shes just going through the motions to get through this without having to deal with it head on. The only question is how far shes willing to go before she realizes what shes doing isn't healthy or how long before she realizes how much trouble shes about to put Renard into. Edit: And Kefka is right - this isn't so much a change as it is a regression. |
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Post by feraldog on Apr 17, 2015 9:07:16 GMT
Yeah, Kat! Sticking up for all her friends! Open Annie's eyes to the cruelty on display, because she's clearly been trained not to do it on her own when her perfect, do-no-wrong father is around...
Whatever's going on she's not acting like the Annie we all know: I think that willingness to stand up for herself (and others) is one of her best qualities. She looks and acts like the stiffly formal, "emotionless" girl Anthony dumped off without a word at the beginning of the comic, and somehow stripped of this attribute. It's bizarre.
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 17, 2015 9:17:03 GMT
It's not mind control. She was like this when the comic started, because when your father decides everything for you, you have no personality. It took quite a while for Annie to start acting normal. Its more than likely just a defense mechanism. Annie has never been good at dealing with sadness, and now shes being ripped away from everything she has built up over the past several years by the one person she wants approval from the most. Something like that would make anyone passive for at least a little while. Shes just going through the motions to get through this without having to deal with it head on. The only question is how far shes willing to go before she realizes what shes doing isn't healthy or how long before she realizes how much trouble shes about to put Renard into. Edit: And Kefka is right - this isn't so much a change as it is a regression. I already said it could be just because she was blindsided...but I just don't know man. Annie's been gone for hours. What transpired between her and her dad while Kat was going to her classes? Gunnerkrigg court has a habit of inserting magical stuff into situations in a story as part of a larger plot that really isn't about the magic at all. Also...given how much power Tony seems to have over Annie, it would take her finding out something really bad about him to break her complete faith in him. Either he and the court have been scheming to deliberately let the cheating thing go on for long enough that they could take advantage of it in this way, or something even worse is going on. Or both. And I get the regression thing, but to me she doesn't seem like she did at the beginning of the comic, she seems worse. Back then she was stoic and didn't show how she felt, but she was also forceful, willful, and even defiant. While seeing her dad again after such a long time could cause it, this is still beyond what she used to be. |
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 17, 2015 9:22:19 GMT
Hmm... has Annie ever considered Reynardine a friend, let alone on the same order as Kat? It's not like they've ever had an equal relationship since Rey attempted the body snatch. Annie has never felt the need to be discreet or even act in a likeable way when Rey was around (unlike Kat, whom Annie has been desperate to impress). So while Kat may think of Rey as a friend now, where does Annie stand regarding Rey? Has she truly forgiven him for attempting to kill her? Annie is the grudge-holding type, after all. Has she even realized that she is giving a friend away?
Why do people keep expecting Rey to head back to the Forest? He left for a reason (not just Surma's love, he's broken their laws too), and Coyote is trying to get him to come back for a reason, using force if need be. If Rey does head back to the Forest, I expect it will only be under the most dire of circumstances - I get the feeling an awful fate awaits him should he return (perhaps as bad or worse than poor Ysengrim's).
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Post by matoyak on Apr 17, 2015 9:25:01 GMT
he only flaw in Annie's soul here is that Annie's father holds too much control over her, and is capable of breaking her down at will. I'm holding judgment on that for now. But certainly, if it turns out that this is the result of something Anthony did to deliberately exert control over her, he needs to go down. It needn't be deliberate for it to be horrific. No one should have this much control over a person as old as Annie is. This is why people have been calling Anthony out. This level of emotional control is terrifying. (And this is why people have boon relating it to abuse: there are few [if any] ways to have someone become this reliant upon another outside of emotional abuse). EDIT: ninjaraven Check out this page. |
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Post by hypixion on Apr 17, 2015 9:25:59 GMT
I'm dissapointed with Annie but I guess she can't help it I guess, she just wants her father to love her and she wants that he has done was because he cares about her.
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 17, 2015 9:27:29 GMT
It's true that Annie wasn't this robotic in chapter 1. In fact, the two states barely compare in this state. Annie was stoic in chapter 1, but she was wilful. She was adventurous, and she could send the shivers down the spines of her classmates and unsettle adults (William and Eglamore).
She was also, to return to my earlier point, a loyal and fierce friend. This meek quisling is nothing like the character I fell in love with and even missed slightly as character development caught up.
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 17, 2015 9:34:41 GMT
Hmm... has Annie ever considered Reynardine a friend, let alone on the same order as Kat? It's not like they've ever had an equal relationship since Rey attempted the body snatch. Annie has never felt the need to be discreet or even act in a likeable way when Rey was around (unlike Kat, whom Annie has been desperate to impress). So while Kat may think of Rey as a friend now, where does Annie stand regarding Rey? Has she truly forgiven him for attempting to kill her? Annie is the grudge-holding type, after all. Has she even realized that she is giving a friend away? Why do people keep expecting Rey to head back to the Forest? He left for a reason (not just Surma's love, he's broken their laws too), and Coyote is trying to get him to come back for a reason, using force if need be. If Rey does head back to the Forest, I expect it will only be under the most dire of circumstances - I get the feeling an awful fate awaits him should he return (perhaps as bad or worse than poor Ysengrim's). Annie offered Rey freedom. I think she saw him as a friend. They've displayed mutual friendship before. |
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Post by sherni on Apr 17, 2015 9:53:32 GMT
All I can feel is utter horror at Reynardine's predicament. And Annie... this isn't the Annie we know! It's like her mind has snapped and she's going on autopilot. I would joke that maybe she's been replaced by a robot, but we already know what the Court robots are like. Either way, this is the tipping point, I think. Even if Kat had accepted that Annie was going to have to do what her father wanted her to do, she isn't going to stand for Reynardine being harmed. It's all up to her now.
But on the other hand, this is very out of character for Annie. Maybe she and Reynardine have already worked out some kind of plan but can't reveal it to Kat for some reason? He ,ay no longer be in that body. It would explain her casual attitude to handing Reynardine over to her father. I really hope that is the reason, because otherwise she will have likely lost two of her closest friends in one swoop. And likely the sympathy and love of a lot of readers as well.
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 17, 2015 9:59:39 GMT
I'm holding judgment on that for now. But certainly, if it turns out that this is the result of something Anthony did to deliberately exert control over her, he needs to go down. It needn't be deliberate for it to be horrific. No one should have this much control over a person as old as Annie is. This is why people have been calling Anthony out. This level of emotional control is terrifying. (And this is why people have boon relating it to abuse: there are few [if any] ways to have someone become this reliant upon another outside of emotional abuse). EDIT: ninjaraven Check out this page.True, but then there's this page. And while she was apologizing to Rey back then, and may have felt more kindly towards him after her time spent in the Forest, I'm not sure how much this changed the fundamentals of their relationship - she was ready to throw the shackles back on once he started protesting, after all. We just haven't seen much of their interactions since then. Rey wasn't sure about his status with Annie - maybe Annie was/is in a similar position. |
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Anthony
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Post by Anthony on Apr 17, 2015 10:12:13 GMT
"Besides, my father told me to kill you, Kat. You have a moment to pray." *takes out the blinker stone*
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artezzatrigger
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Post by artezzatrigger on Apr 17, 2015 10:15:40 GMT
It needn't be deliberate for it to be horrific. This is why people have been calling Anthony out. This level of emotional control is terrifying. (And this is why people have boon relating it to abuse: there are few [if any] ways to have someone become this reliant upon another outside of emotional abuse). EDIT: ninjaraven Check out this page.True, but then there's this page. And while she was apologizing to Rey back then, and may have felt more kindly towards him after her time spent in the Forest, I'm not sure how much this changed the fundamentals of their relationship - she was ready to throw the shackles back on once he started protesting, after all. We just haven't seen much of their interactions since then. Rey wasn't sure about his status with Annie - maybe Annie was/is in a similar position. I had forgotten that chapter. People have been quoting Tom saying that Renard would kill again in defense of a friend, but the truth is he has already killed Hetty in defense of someones unaware intended victim. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 17, 2015 10:20:52 GMT
It's not mind control. She was like this when the comic started, because when your father decides everything for you, you have no personality. It took quite a while for Annie to start acting normal. Heh, what is normal? Anyway, I don't think she actually was this worrisome. She was reserved sure, but she was also inquisitive & imaginative, respectful of life & open minded (she treated Robot & Shadow like people), willful (she lied to someone about helping Shadow, she shut Winsbury down with a glance) and didn't seem to given a second thought to coming to the defense of a friend (flipping Winsbury when he was being a butt). Plus she had long hair and makeup. Though perhaps those traits were the influence of Surma, since Annie didn't seem to have had an unhappy childhood. Her father was distant, her mother didn't seem to be. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 17, 2015 10:31:25 GMT
Rey has sad eyes in the last panel. (compare to this and other pages) I think Anthony would realize if Annie gave him an empty wolf plushie. I would like to think sherni is right and Annie has already freed or hidden Rey in another form. But to do that Annie would have to come to her senses on her own and everything on these last two pages demonstrate that is not the case. EDIT: such wishful thinking... |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 17, 2015 10:48:58 GMT
All I can feel is utter horror at Reynardine's predicament. And Annie... this isn't the Annie we know! It's like her mind has snapped and she's going on autopilot. I would joke that maybe she's been replaced by a robot, but we already know what the Court robots are like. Either way, this is the tipping point, I think. Even if Kat had accepted that Annie was going to have to do what her father wanted her to do, she isn't going to stand for Reynardine being harmed. It's all up to her now. But on the other hand, this is very out of character for Annie. Maybe she and Reynardine have already worked out some kind of plan but can't reveal it to Kat for some reason? He ,ay no longer be in that body. It would explain her casual attitude to handing Reynardine over to her father. I really hope that is the reason, because otherwise she will have likely lost two of her closest friends in one swoop. And likely the sympathy and love of a lot of readers as well. Maybe this Anthony is a more advanced robot sent from a post-apocalyptic future to remove any beings that will one day come to oppose Courtnet.* *And replace them, so as to not arouse suspicion. |
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Post by machival on Apr 17, 2015 11:59:48 GMT
Well, this confirms that the simple okay earlier didn't count as a transfer of ownership. My guess is ownership won't transfer until Antimony physically hands the doll to Anthony and says something equivalent to "this is yours now."
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Even more than that - I'm finding her sudden switch to the very formal to be quite creepy. "Forbade him"? "He made a big fuss when I told him I am to give him to my father"?* 
