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Post by snipertom on Jul 31, 2014 11:44:30 GMT
Well in sort of unexpected but also completely expected news, I just came out as a guy! Woo! Should I change my username now?! (woo thread necroing? hi all!) Congratulations. I've been reading your blag for a while, and I gotta say, it's helped me understand my sister brother a lot better. You keep doing you! Ooh! I had no idea! I hope you enjoy the blargh  |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 31, 2014 12:04:59 GMT
You know, reading through this thread and thinking about the difficulties one would have to deal with when it comes to labels, I just wish that, you know, these things were just a bit simpler. In-freaking-deed. It actually bothers me sometimes that people are so stressed about keeping these things complicated. Edit: Never mind. |
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Post by Ophel on Jul 31, 2014 12:16:49 GMT
You know, reading through this thread and thinking about the difficulties one would have to deal with when it comes to labels, I just wish that, you know, these things were just a bit simpler. In-freaking-deed. It actually bothers me sometimes that people are so stressed about keeping these things complicated. Edit: Never mind. I get the point in your long post. But then I remembered, people tend to complicate a lot of things. I don't like it. Maybe if it's a story that only slightly, but tactfully complicated to convey complexity in said story, but I don't like it in real life. As an new adult coming to face the realities of life, I am not looking forward to this. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 31, 2014 12:33:04 GMT
In-freaking-deed. It actually bothers me sometimes that people are so stressed about keeping these things complicated. Edit: Never mind. I get the point in your long post. But then I remembered, people tend to complicate a lot of things. I don't like it. Maybe if it's a story that only slightly, but tactfully complicated to convey complexity in said story, but I don't like it in real life. As an new adult coming to face the realities of life, I am not looking forward to this. Great to hear. I removed it, because I suspected many enough wouldn't. You know, there are things that also are complicated, and things that it is good to reckon are complicated. Rarely there is a simple fit-all answer to anything, and often society needs to come up with general answers and solutions that inevitably cause a complicated public discourse. I'm all fine with that. But then there are things that, let's say, do not really need answers, and that could be relatively simple if left as a relaxed matter of our private preferences. Edit: often also leaving something as a simple private issue can require an annoyingly complicated public issue. |
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Post by Ophel on Jul 31, 2014 12:40:01 GMT
I get the point in your long post. But then I remembered, people tend to complicate a lot of things. I don't like it. Maybe if it's a story that only slightly, but tactfully complicated to convey complexity in said story, but I don't like it in real life. As an new adult coming to face the realities of life, I am not looking forward to this. Great to hear. I removed it, because I suspected many enough wouldn't. You know, there are things that also are complicated, and things that it is good to reckon are complicated. Rarely there is a simple fit-all answer to anything, and often society needs to come up with general answers and solutions that inevitably cause a complicated public discourse. I'm all fine with that. But then there are things that, let's say, do not really need answers, and that could be relatively simple if left as a relaxed matter of our private preferences. You eased my worries a bit, thanks. And I agree with that last part. |
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Post by Elysium on Jul 31, 2014 12:50:45 GMT
But then there are things that, let's say, do not really need answers, and that could be relatively simple if left as a relaxed matter of our private preferences. Mmmmh not so sure, if there are civil rights at stake, then it's not just preferences, but in what position those preferences leaves you with the law, as we see in the ongoing debate surrounding gay marriage. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 31, 2014 13:07:29 GMT
But then there are things that, let's say, do not really need answers, and that could be relatively simple if left as a relaxed matter of our private preferences. Mmmmh not so sure, if there are civil rights at stake, then it's not just preferences, but in what position those preferences leaves you with the law, as we see in the ongoing debate surrounding gay marriage. That's what my edit was about. |
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Post by fwip on Jul 31, 2014 13:40:45 GMT
but at least the PS4 is less expensive in its launch than the PS3. And PCs are even cheaper! dirty console peasant
Kidding, of course. I am a member of the PCmasterrace, but I won't make a big deal of it here, of all places.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 31, 2014 14:43:32 GMT
but at least the PS4 is less expensive in its launch than the PS3. And PCs are even cheaper! This is what most people don't realize. You can spend 1000 dollars once, and then spend a little bit every 5-10 years to keep your box competitive, or you can spend 1000+ every time a new console comes out with new games and new peripherals. Plus there's that little fact that after a brief period in the N64 era, consoles will continue to fall further and further behind PC's as far as power/graphics goes. |
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Post by fwip on Jul 31, 2014 14:53:02 GMT
And PCs are even cheaper! This is what most people don't realize. You can spend 1000 dollars once, and then spend a little bit every 5-10 years to keep your box competitive, or you can spend 1000+ every time a new console comes out with new games and new peripherals. Plus there's that little fact that after a brief period in the N64 era, consoles will continue to fall further and further behind PC's as far as power/graphics goes. Yep. The only reason you would ever buy a console is because of the exclusives - if the only games you wanted to play were console exclusives (due to idiot devs) or if you already have a competent gaming PC and have money to burn. (Also: Thread derailed much? XD) |
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Post by Ophel on Jul 31, 2014 15:25:18 GMT
This is what most people don't realize. You can spend 1000 dollars once, and then spend a little bit every 5-10 years to keep your box competitive, or you can spend 1000+ every time a new console comes out with new games and new peripherals. Plus there's that little fact that after a brief period in the N64 era, consoles will continue to fall further and further behind PC's as far as power/graphics goes. Yep. The only reason you would ever buy a console is because of the exclusives - if the only games you wanted to play were console exclusives (due to idiot devs) or if you already have a competent gaming PC and have money to burn. (Also: Thread derailed much? XD) These are all good points. But God knows I don't need anymore distractions on my computer than there already is. I rather separate my work with my fun. |
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Post by Elysium on Jul 31, 2014 16:08:53 GMT
That's what my edit was about. Sorry, I misread. And PCs are even cheaper! dirty console peasant
Kidding, of course. I am a member of the PCmasterrace, but I won't make a big deal of it here, of all places.
All hail PC mustard race ! |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 31, 2014 16:43:07 GMT
All hail PC mustard race ! Our Gaben, who art in Bellevue Rotund be thy shape Thy Half-Life come Thy will be done On earth, as it is in Valve. |
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lit
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Post by lit on Jul 31, 2014 20:45:57 GMT
I know what all those words mean. What I meant was that I wanted to give an explanation, myself, because I am a huge gender dork and I took some issue with the definition provided on page one. But yeah. Saving it. Please, I would be happy to hear an explanation by a "huge gender dork" (love that wording), as the one given by warrl didn't really help me at all, despite having done my fair share of gender studies. Haha if you're sure. The initial definition given in this thread, if I recall correctly, was either "cisgender means you feel comfortable with your biological sex" or "you feel comfortable with the sex you were born as" and I feel these definitions are something of a simplification. They're useful as an entry point and probably the simplest way to give someone an understanding of the topic, but ... you're not "born" a gender. Nobody is "born" a gender, at least not in that way. Gender is assigned. When you are born, a doctor assigns you a gender based on the appearance of your sex organs. Your parents generally go with it and raise you as if you were that gender. Whether you are cisgender or transgender revolves around whether or not you feel dissonance with that gender assignment. If you feel no dissonance with your gender assignment, you are cisgender. If you do feel dissonance, you're trans. Even this isn't a perfect explanation, but I think it's better... Being agender, I hardly have an inherent grasp of what gender is - but I think most people don't. It's just so ingrained that we just... accept it. Dissonance. It can sometimes take the form of physical dysphoria, where your body's not the way you know it should be, you don't have parts that you feel should be there, etc. It can be incredibly disorienting, but it's not the only form that the dissonance can take. There can be more of a social dissonance, where people treat you as the gender you were assigned at birth and it just feels wrong, jarring. People who are trans can attempt to transition to relieve some of this dissonance. They might medically transition by taking hormones, or getting surgery. They might socially transition, by changing their name, asking people to use different pronouns, wearing different clothes. Or they might not outwardly transition at all! Transitioning isn't the process during which you change your gender. It's the steps you take to relieve the dissonance, once you've realized the gender you were assigned is not working for you. Your gender isn't really about what you like or how you behave. You can be a a guy who likes feminine stuff and crossdresses and still totally be a guy. And you can be a girl who was assigned male at birth and like wearing idk t-shirts and playing video games and still totally a lady! This still raises questions - like, why do some people feel dissonance and others not? What would make a person feel that dissonance? What is gender? When does it start? How did it develop? What exactly is its relationship to our sex organs? I'm a gender dork and not an expert, and I'm still learning. But this is my understanding of it. Anyway gender systems can differ from society to society so I'm just talking about the one that I grew up in and that I assume I share with most of you...blah blah disclaimers yeah. Did this make any sense? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 31, 2014 20:50:18 GMT
That's what my edit was about. Sorry, I misread. Never mind.  Your new avatar! It's awesome! Thanks, lit. Had never heard of "cis" genders. |
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Post by Ophel on Aug 1, 2014 4:15:15 GMT
Absolutely! With what you helped me understand, I'm probably cis-gender then, since I feel no dissonance with being and the thought of being a guy. I still don't particularly give a bother much of it for I am me (and what I am can change except, most probably, my species), but it's still interesting. And as I suspected, what I like =/= my gender. So that clears up some misconceptions. |
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Post by snipertom on Aug 5, 2014 12:13:47 GMT
Please, I would be happy to hear an explanation by a "huge gender dork" (love that wording), as the one given by warrl didn't really help me at all, despite having done my fair share of gender studies. Haha if you're sure. The initial definition given in this thread, if I recall correctly, was either "cisgender means you feel comfortable with your biological sex" or "you feel comfortable with the sex you were born as" and I feel these definitions are something of a simplification. They're useful as an entry point and probably the simplest way to give someone an understanding of the topic, but ... you're not "born" a gender. Nobody is "born" a gender, at least not in that way. Gender is assigned. When you are born, a doctor assigns you a gender based on the appearance of your sex organs. Your parents generally go with it and raise you as if you were that gender. Whether you are cisgender or transgender revolves around whether or not you feel dissonance with that gender assignment. If you feel no dissonance with your gender assignment, you are cisgender. If you do feel dissonance, you're trans. Even this isn't a perfect explanation, but I think it's better... Being agender, I hardly have an inherent grasp of what gender is - but I think most people don't. It's just so ingrained that we just... accept it. Dissonance. It can sometimes take the form of physical dysphoria, where your body's not the way you know it should be, you don't have parts that you feel should be there, etc. It can be incredibly disorienting, but it's not the only form that the dissonance can take. There can be more of a social dissonance, where people treat you as the gender you were assigned at birth and it just feels wrong, jarring. People who are trans can attempt to transition to relieve some of this dissonance. They might medically transition by taking hormones, or getting surgery. They might socially transition, by changing their name, asking people to use different pronouns, wearing different clothes. Or they might not outwardly transition at all! Transitioning isn't the process during which you change your gender. It's the steps you take to relieve the dissonance, once you've realized the gender you were assigned is not working for you. Your gender isn't really about what you like or how you behave. You can be a a guy who likes feminine stuff and crossdresses and still totally be a guy. And you can be a girl who was assigned male at birth and like wearing idk t-shirts and playing video games and still totally a lady! This still raises questions - like, why do some people feel dissonance and others not? What would make a person feel that dissonance? What is gender? When does it start? How did it develop? What exactly is its relationship to our sex organs? I'm a gender dork and not an expert, and I'm still learning. But this is my understanding of it. Anyway gender systems can differ from society to society so I'm just talking about the one that I grew up in and that I assume I share with most of you...blah blah disclaimers yeah. Did this make any sense? Yeah it did. Honestly, the thing I used to get really stuck on (among other things) was that I never felt 'trapped in my own body'. I've always felt (and still feel) vaguely uncomfortable with it for reasons that were hard to articulate. However 'socially' and in my head, I have never felt like a girl; my social role even around lots of girls (I went to an all-girls school; god that was traumatic) felt like it should be if anything that of a guy which was how I saw myself deep down. Not to mention that in general a lot of people related to me as a guy semiconsciously. In that sense, gender categories are very much a social construct even if the way we feel about our own gender is something innate to ourselves (?something that evolves with time from the moment we're born) |
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Post by snipertom on Aug 5, 2014 12:15:10 GMT
GK Sierra Daedalus lit fwip warrl keef (and everyone else who I may have forgotten, apologies) much thanks for your well-wishes and congratulations ^_^ it feels great! Sometimes scary and unsure and such but overall pretty great!
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 6, 2014 12:13:51 GMT
GK Sierra Daedalus lit fwip warrl keef (and everyone else who I may have forgotten, apologies) much thanks for your well-wishes and congratulations ^_^ it feels great! Sometimes scary and unsure and such but overall pretty great! Congrats! Please, I would be happy to hear an explanation by a "huge gender dork" (love that wording), as the one given by warrl didn't really help me at all, despite having done my fair share of gender studies. Haha if you're sure. The initial definition given in this thread, if I recall correctly, was either "cisgender means you feel comfortable with your biological sex" or "you feel comfortable with the sex you were born as" and I feel these definitions are something of a simplification. They're useful as an entry point and probably the simplest way to give someone an understanding of the topic, but ... you're not "born" a gender. Nobody is "born" a gender, at least not in that way. Gender is assigned. When you are born, a doctor assigns you a gender based on the appearance of your sex organs. Your parents generally go with it and raise you as if you were that gender. Whether you are cisgender or transgender revolves around whether or not you feel dissonance with that gender assignment. If you feel no dissonance with your gender assignment, you are cisgender. If you do feel dissonance, you're trans. Even this isn't a perfect explanation, but I think it's better... Being agender, I hardly have an inherent grasp of what gender is - but I think most people don't. It's just so ingrained that we just... accept it. Dissonance. It can sometimes take the form of physical dysphoria, where your body's not the way you know it should be, you don't have parts that you feel should be there, etc. It can be incredibly disorienting, but it's not the only form that the dissonance can take. There can be more of a social dissonance, where people treat you as the gender you were assigned at birth and it just feels wrong, jarring. People who are trans can attempt to transition to relieve some of this dissonance. They might medically transition by taking hormones, or getting surgery. They might socially transition, by changing their name, asking people to use different pronouns, wearing different clothes. Or they might not outwardly transition at all! Transitioning isn't the process during which you change your gender. It's the steps you take to relieve the dissonance, once you've realized the gender you were assigned is not working for you. Your gender isn't really about what you like or how you behave. You can be a a guy who likes feminine stuff and crossdresses and still totally be a guy. And you can be a girl who was assigned male at birth and like wearing idk t-shirts and playing video games and still totally a lady! This still raises questions - like, why do some people feel dissonance and others not? What would make a person feel that dissonance? What is gender? When does it start? How did it develop? What exactly is its relationship to our sex organs? I'm a gender dork and not an expert, and I'm still learning. But this is my understanding of it. Anyway gender systems can differ from society to society so I'm just talking about the one that I grew up in and that I assume I share with most of you...blah blah disclaimers yeah. Did this make any sense? This may be one of the most brilliant explanations I have ever read! Well said! I want to add that being cis-gender doesn't always mean feeling 100% comfortable with the gender you were assigned at birth, it means identifying publicly and or privately with the gender you were assigned at birth for whatever reason. For example, in my case I consider myself a cis-female because most of the time female feels like the best fit for me, however, being female is often an uncomfortable thing for me for a variety of reasons. (Institutionalized oppression, street harassment, social pressure to conform with expectations of female behavior that I don't fit with or agree with, strangers who feel obliged to comment on my body and what I wear in public, wishing it was easier to build muscle mass, etc...) |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 7, 2014 7:37:01 GMT
wishing it was easier to build muscle mass Ugh tell me about it. My problem isn't my biological sex; it's that I'm lazy bah |
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 7, 2014 13:39:56 GMT
wishing it was easier to build muscle mass Ugh tell me about it. My problem isn't my biological sex; it's that I'm lazy bah That plays into it, too. Heck, even though I'm not as active as I'd like to be right now (I haven't climbed a mountain since June! June I tell you!) I've always been more muscular than most girls and that presents it's own problem with finding clothing that wasn't designed for someone with stick figure arms. Ugh! |
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Post by philman on Aug 7, 2014 15:20:24 GMT
GK Sierra Daedalus lit fwip warrl keef (and everyone else who I may have forgotten, apologies) much thanks for your well-wishes and congratulations ^_^ it feels great! Sometimes scary and unsure and such but overall pretty great! I always feel a bit odd saying 'congrats' to someone for just, well, being themselves, but I suppose it makes sense in some ways. It's great that you feel more comfortable in yourself now at any rate! The cis thing I sort of get, and the above explanation by lit is pretty good, but it does throw up a lot of anomalies I guess. there is more to assigning gender than just what genitals you have, there are the X and Y genes involved (although that creates complications too in some people with extra chromosomes or genitalia not matching their XX or XY allocation), but it seems a pretty concise explanation. One thing that does interest me though, is the higher proportion of non-cis-gendered people on this board, and on other boards I've been on, than I would have suspected. Given that amongst all the people I know in real life, I know quite a few gay people, but no-one who is non-cis (or at least, is openly non-cis), but on here we have 15 people out of 78 votes who are non-cis (perhaps more but some of the definitions I am unsure on. Womyn??). Is this just because it is a self-selecting survey? as in, a lot of cis people just glance over it and don't bother to vote while non-cis people are more interested in contributing? Or is it just showing how many more non-cis people there are, who are more comfortable talking about it anonymously than in real life? I have no idea what this means, just interested to see what others thought. |
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lit
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Post by lit on Aug 7, 2014 16:43:00 GMT
This may be one of the most brilliant explanations I have ever read! Well said! I want to add that being cis-gender doesn't always mean feeling 100% comfortable with the gender you were assigned at birth, it means identifying publicly and or privately with the gender you were assigned at birth for whatever reason. For example, in my case I consider myself a cis-female because most of the time female feels like the best fit for me, however, being female is often an uncomfortable thing for me for a variety of reasons. (Institutionalized oppression, street harassment, social pressure to conform with expectations of female behavior that I don't fit with or agree with, strangers who feel obliged to comment on my body and what I wear in public, wishing it was easier to build muscle mass, etc...) Hey, thanks! You're right. I didn't mean to imply that in order to be female you had to be comfortable with every aspect of being female like institutionalized oppression etc. That would be a totally unreasonable expectation, because street harassment is the worst. I'll look into clarifying my wording in the future. The cis thing I sort of get, and the above explanation by lit is pretty good, but it does throw up a lot of anomalies I guess. there is more to assigning gender than just what genitals you have, there are the X and Y genes involved (although that creates complications too in some people with extra chromosomes or genitalia not matching their XX or XY allocation), but it seems a pretty concise explanation. Yeah? Are chromosomes generally tested at or before birth? I honestly don't know. One thing that does interest me though, is the higher proportion of non-cis-gendered people on this board, and on other boards I've been on, than I would have suspected. Given that amongst all the people I know in real life, I know quite a few gay people, but no-one who is non-cis (or at least, is openly non-cis), but on here we have 15 people out of 78 votes who are non-cis (perhaps more but some of the definitions I am unsure on. Womyn??). Is this just because it is a self-selecting survey? as in, a lot of cis people just glance over it and don't bother to vote while non-cis people are more interested in contributing? Or is it just showing how many more non-cis people there are, who are more comfortable talking about it anonymously than in real life? I have no idea what this means, just interested to see what others thought. I am not out as agender to the majority of people in my life and I think a lot of trans people choose to stay "closeted" or "stealth" because of the stigma. It's often not safe to be out as trans. People just don't understand, and some are actively hostile to certain trans identities. So yes, trans people might be more open online, since it's fairly anonymous and safe. The other thing that might affect the results is that I think the people who you meet in online communities such as these tend to have access to other online communities and resources. It was online communities where I learned about trans identities and met other trans people. I didn't know there was a name for how I felt. I didn't know it was possible for me to not be a woman. People who have access to information about trans identities are more likely to realize it fits, and that information is overwhelmingly online. People who don't have access to that information or those communities might take longer to identify what they are feeling, or they might feel too isolated to begin to transition. Finally, you might be right in that cis people ignore this thread or don't take the survey since it's not as important to them. |
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 7, 2014 16:49:41 GMT
This may be one of the most brilliant explanations I have ever read! Well said! I want to add that being cis-gender doesn't always mean feeling 100% comfortable with the gender you were assigned at birth, it means identifying publicly and or privately with the gender you were assigned at birth for whatever reason. For example, in my case I consider myself a cis-female because most of the time female feels like the best fit for me, however, being female is often an uncomfortable thing for me for a variety of reasons. (Institutionalized oppression, street harassment, social pressure to conform with expectations of female behavior that I don't fit with or agree with, strangers who feel obliged to comment on my body and what I wear in public, wishing it was easier to build muscle mass, etc...) Hey, thanks! You're right. I didn't mean to imply that in order to be female you had to be comfortable with every aspect of being female like institutionalized oppression etc. That would be a totally unreasonable expectation, because street harassment is the worst. I'll look into clarifying my wording in the future. Thanks for the response! I did not take your post to mean that you thought that all cisgender people were 100% comfortable identities at all! I was just chiming in because particularly with recent political decisions and high profile news coverage about violence against women it has been on my mind lately. You're wording was lovely and eloquent and really resonated with me. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Aug 7, 2014 19:29:40 GMT
That plays into it, too. Heck, even though I'm not as active as I'd like to be right now (I haven't climbed a mountain since June! June I tell you!) I've always been more muscular than most girls and that presents it's own problem with finding clothing that wasn't designed for someone with stick figure arms. Ugh! Try looking at athletic cut mens' shirts. |
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 7, 2014 20:22:54 GMT
That plays into it, too. Heck, even though I'm not as active as I'd like to be right now (I haven't climbed a mountain since June! June I tell you!) I've always been more muscular than most girls and that presents it's own problem with finding clothing that wasn't designed for someone with stick figure arms. Ugh! Try looking at athletic cut mens' shirts. The problem doesn't arise for exercise clothing nearly as often as it does the quest to find flattering shirts that are office appropriate, don't show too much cleavage, don't gape in inconvenient places, and don't cut off circulation to my arms. I've been lucky a few times but shopping is generally a horror story for me. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Aug 7, 2014 20:36:37 GMT
The problem doesn't arise for exercise clothing nearly as often as it does the quest to find flattering shirts that are office appropriate, don't show too much cleavage, don't gape in inconvenient places, and don't cut off circulation to my arms. I've been lucky a few times but shopping is generally a horror story for me. That's because clothes are evil. Or cursed, I'm not sure which. (ETA: I know the reality is that they make clothes to measurements that don't fit the majority of us, but it's more fun to say the clothes are cursed.) |
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 7, 2014 20:42:18 GMT
Cloths are cursed and designers are evil!
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Post by warrl on Aug 7, 2014 21:28:23 GMT
One thing that does interest me though, is the higher proportion of non-cis-gendered people on this board, and on other boards I've been on, than I would have suspected. Given that amongst all the people I know in real life, I know quite a few gay people, but no-one who is non-cis (or at least, is openly non-cis), but on here we have 15 people out of 78 votes who are non-cis (perhaps more but some of the definitions I am unsure on. Womyn??). Is this just because it is a self-selecting survey? as in, a lot of cis people just glance over it and don't bother to vote while non-cis people are more interested in contributing? Or is it just showing how many more non-cis people there are, who are more comfortable talking about it anonymously than in real life? I have no idea what this means, just interested to see what others thought. Well, in ordinary circumstances, most people choose to present as just one sex all the time. The genderfluid, I suspect (not being aware of actually knowing any, so not asserting any factual knowledge or much confidence in my speculation) will mostly choose one sex for any given context - if they get hired while presenting male, they will present male while at work no matter what they do at other times. And in most circumstances it really doesn't matter whether or not the sex they present as corresponds with the contents of their underpants. So why would they reveal discrepancies? On the forums, on the other hand, there is the benefit of an anonymous poll layered on a semi-anonymous ID plus the fact that telling such things in the poll can be educational about just how rare (or not-rare) various components of the LGBTetc (I won't use an asterisk on that unless it's for a footnote) population are. But I haven't answered the poll. Why not? First because there are a lot of what I think are duplicate categories with different names. What's the difference between "Cis male", "Cis man", "Cisgender male", "Cisgender man", and "Male"? Second because after likely duplicates are eliminated there are only two categories for people who see themselves as clearly-predominantly of the gender conforming to the normal genitalia they were born with, but at least a dozen categories for others. Guess what: the variations may not be as easy to notice nearer the ends of the spectra, but they still exist. Some people are aware of them. Some other people would gain a better understanding of themselves if they were informed that it is possible to be, for example, a TINY bit genderfluid or transgender or homosexual or asexual or.... And maybe some people would become more tolerant if they learned that these things are really not binary or even trinary. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2014 1:43:38 GMT
Unfortunately, proboards gives no option to create a sliding-bar poll.
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Your new avatar! It's awesome!
