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Post by Midnight Meadows on Oct 24, 2012 11:05:37 GMT
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Post by wanderer on Oct 24, 2012 11:22:38 GMT
Let's get on with it Tom. We know she's old. We know she's been there for everything. Please kill the suspense, it's killing me. This is essentially my response, although I'm approaching annoyance more than eager anticipation. Something along the lines of "yeah, we get it, she's old. If she predates humanity, let's hurry up and get to that. At least that might show us something of interest beyond just "she's really old, guys.""
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Post by ondredea on Oct 24, 2012 11:27:37 GMT
Given her impartiality in most regards, I have a hard time seeing her being a goddess or an object of worship at any point in the timeline. I interpret the "wandering eye" aspect as that she's an observer of events and people, but who doesn't give weight to the events that occur and watches without bias.
I don't think that makes her emotionless (she's clearly fond of Mr. E, although the parameters of that fondness haven't been established), but I think her perspective over millennia would lend itself to just watching -- as a stone mountain observes, changing little over time but for the slow wearing of the wind.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 24, 2012 11:35:09 GMT
I interpret the "wandering eye" aspect as that she's an observer of events and people, but who doesn't give weight to the events that occur and watches without bias. I think this is how most of us interpreted it before this chapter, but there are plausible theories that this interpretation was wrong - for example, that wandering eye was just one of her names, the one that she had when she (last) met Coyote (which would be the time when she was in America). Although the impartiality could suggest no-deity, one should keep in mind that in some cultures, the gods were considered impartial and generally disinterested in human affairs. Again, the Ancient Greeks come in mind. Although a good part of the legends are about them having some affairs with the people, the general idea was that they do not care to intervene. So, she could perhaps have passed for some deity or another. But considering that she should be Tom's own invention, she could not be a deity of some actually known mythology.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 11:40:20 GMT
I just remembered something. Read the title of this chapter again. What else could she be? Ever notice how the name of this chapter hasn't been touched upon at all? Good question! You should read through all the threads that correlate to the pages of this chapter. Plenty of theories about how/why "The Stone" may be linked to Jones—or what she truly is. There's a Galatea theory (associated with The Stone as Galatea was a statue/scupture) and there's the alchemist theory (associated with The Stone or "The Philosopher's Stone"). There's a theory that she's created in the image of Jeanne (see quotes) and there's a theory that she's associated with Ra of Ancient Egypt (or Hathor and Sekhmet). There's plenty of theories that she's a golem (associated with The Stone), clone, a time-traveler, and many many others. It would be redundant to explain everything again, but I say you should read through the threads. Also... Mr. Siddell did say that Jones was an original character of his own creation or words to that effect. ...so we can't really pin-point what she really is, but it doesn't hurt to continue theorizing. I hope that this helps, graham.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 24, 2012 11:45:15 GMT
I think she's definitely supposed to be tan-skinned because you'll notice that compared to the other people in each image she's quite a bit darker than they are (with the exception of that other lady who's name I forgot). This is a nice finding, actually. Hereand the next pageand during the whole chapter, for example here So, though blond, the tone of her skin is a bit darker than that of most people in court.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 24, 2012 12:06:00 GMT
There's a Galatea theory (associated with The Stone as Galatea was a statue/scupture)... ...and there's a theory that she's associated with Ra of Ancient Egypt (or Hathor and Sekhmet). ^I've been using the phrase "Galatea theory" as an umbrella for several interrelated "Jones is a living statue who-" theories. The oldest was "-who was adored by some sort of Pygmalion and brought to life by blonde Aphrodite" but I believe I also originated the "-who was an icon of Hathor often consulted for wisdom" subtheory. I also acknowledge the "-who was a naturally woman-shaped rock, never carved by human hands, brought to life by the veneration and/or adoration of humans in antiquity." That last permutation was not originated by me and frankly is the only one that has me worried because if that's the case then all of the associations I've made can be correct and Jones can be related to the myths I think she is yet I can still be wrong (at least as an origin theory) in the final analysis. Something slightly similar happened to me with the vagota theory regarding Antimony's true nature (though who knows, I may be vindicated someday). But even if that is the case with the Galatea theory and Jones I will clam partial cookie for having her pegged as a living statue for so long.
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Post by tustin2121 on Oct 24, 2012 12:11:08 GMT
Edit: If Jones's flashbacks go further back in history, let's say Ancient Egypt, perhaps we will see her as a slave of the Ancient Egyptians since slaves were lighter-skinned. However, if not light-skinned but still not Egyptian, slaves were still classified as a certain type of slave doing certain kinds of work. Oooo! If she's a slave in Egypt, maybe she's the reason the pyramids are so magnificent! Historians still wonder how exactly the stones of the pyramids got there (I'm sure they have theories, but go with this a moment): maybe Jones was involved in getting those stones up there! She is strong after all!
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 12:17:26 GMT
One of my favorites books, Arken (The Ark) by Peter Nilson, tells the story of Benjamin, a man who turns out to be immortal, much to his own surprise. The book starts out in the age of myth, where he is among the first humans created by God, and the reader gets to follow him though the ages right up to the end of the universe, when he is the last human alive. It is never explained what Benjamin is, but it is hinted that he might be a kind of a vessel for humanity, or for all living things. Kind of a backbone for life. He is the only thing that exists in all the ages until the end of time. This chapter reminds me a bit of Arken. I wonder if Jones is something like that? Probably not, but I might as well say it before the similarities end. ^^ Being immortal must be a terrible fate, and should be enough in itself to wash away the emotions from someone. After a while you might not even remember how to laugh. Hmmm! Interesting! I think I might check Arken out! And Benjamin does seem to be in the same situation as Jones: it is never explained what she is. That is very profound, though, to ponder that Jones, too, may be a "vessel for humanity, or for all living things. Kind of a backbone for life." Speaking of novels with immortal characters, this chapter has reminded me of Tuck Everlasting by Natalie Babbitt. The book is about a young girl who discovers a family of four, the Tuck family, who are immortal because they drank from a spring under a tree. The book doesn't really explain the "magic" behind the spring or the tree, but it contains themes of life, death, and immortality. And like you said, being immortal must be terrible. The Tuck characters in the book convey that, that being immortal pretty much sucks, to sum it up. Jones is always stoic, from what we've seen. Perhaps hardened by all the loss she has experienced throughout her life and all the ages: the death of people she cared for, places she's probably grown attached to gone and destroyed, etc. I would not be surprised if Jones, like the Tuck family, completely despises being immortal.
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
Posts: 168
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Post by quoodle on Oct 24, 2012 12:32:12 GMT
Oooo! If she's a slave in Egypt, maybe she's the reason the pyramids are so magnificent! ... Or the Sphinx. The face of the Sphinx of Giza is not exactly known. It's impassive and seemingly eternal (and made of stone). Is Jones an inspiration for the Sphinx? (anyone for Photoshoip?, LAUGHING ON LINE)
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2012 12:51:01 GMT
Okay, should we declare her impervious to fire? Josh: I'm thinking of firing you. Donna: You fired me twice already tonight. I'm impervious. (...) Josh: You're fired. Donna: Impervious!
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Post by aaroncampbell on Oct 24, 2012 12:53:06 GMT
Two-and-a-half things: 1.) I love the artwork on this page. 1.5) I wonder if the Romans had marshmallows? The recipe is simple enough, especially given that marshmallow has been a common folk treatment for sore throats and whatnot for ages, but I don't know about the sugar-whip which is really what I'm wondering about. Those flames really are begging for a good marshmallow roasting.) 2.) Given what we've found out about Jones in this chapter, it makes the "Jones is a robot!" theory look pretty ridiculous doesn't it? I don't mean to diss the theory at all -- it was a great discussion point and a perfectly valid possibility -- but what we know about Jones now is just that much more impressive, neh? Makes robots look, well lame in comparison. (Sorry, Kat.)
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krael
Junior Member
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Post by krael on Oct 24, 2012 13:52:02 GMT
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 13:59:51 GMT
Don't you mean solidarity?
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
Posts: 168
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Post by quoodle on Oct 24, 2012 14:19:37 GMT
Huh. She actually is. And she's taking it in the usual jones-ish manner, not giving a crap about it. Okay, should we declare her impervious to fire? Maybe she is a true immortal. An artistic note: She is *not* on fire - she's reflecting image of the fire, (Marble has some reflective properties, but I digress) From a practical standpoint, having her clothes burn away would be pretty distracting. "Oh bother"
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Post by OrzBrain on Oct 24, 2012 14:20:14 GMT
Being immortal must be a terrible fate, and should be enough in itself to wash away the emotions from someone. After a while you might not even remember how to laugh. Speaking of novels with immortal characters, this chapter has reminded me of Tuck Everlasting by Natalie Babbitt. The book is about a young girl who discovers a family of four, the Tuck family, who are immortal because they drank from a spring under a tree. The book doesn't really explain the "magic" behind the spring or the tree, but it contains themes of life, death, and immortality. And like you said, being immortal must be terrible. The Tuck characters in the book convey that, that being immortal pretty much sucks, to sum it up. Jones is always stoic, from what we've seen. Perhaps hardened by all the loss she has experienced throughout her life and all the ages: the death of people she cared for, places she's probably grown attached to gone and destroyed, etc. I would not be surprised if Jones, like the Tuck family, completely despises being immortal. You guys might be right that immortality sucks. But you know what? I'd bet anything and everything in the world that it is better by far than the alternative. There's a reason I was unable to finish Tuck Everlasting. The complete idiocy of the basic theme, that immortality would be a bad thing, was just too much for me to swallow. There's a term for that kind of thinking. It's called sour grapes. Yes, if you were immortal everyone and everything you loved would eventually die or be destroyed. But YOU would remember it. And that is better, a million times better, than having no one remember it. And the Tuck Everlasting example is so much worse because in that book immortality isn't a solitary thing, it's something that EVERYONE could conceivably have if the Tuck family weren't trying might and main to keep it a secret. You know what that makes them? That makes them responsible for every death and act of destruction that happened in the world after they decided to keep the spring of life a secret. That makes them the greatest murderers in human history.
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krael
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by krael on Oct 24, 2012 14:21:27 GMT
bad typo (though I was aiming at 'solidair', which isn't english after all, I guess) Anyway, trying to update the graph, I found that the datapoints can NOT be fitted with a simple exponential curve anymore. the last two points go too fast! I had to use a double exponential, which doesn't make much sense except that it fits the points up till now, but we can throw the idea of a predefined pattern out of the window by now. The red line shows the previous prediction. You can see we deviate badly from it. So, Good luck for impatient people! We're leaving documented history pretty fast now.
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 14:32:00 GMT
At this rate, we'll hit the Ice Age on Monday.
Tom could very well slow down, screwing with the graph even further. Also. when we go past recorded history, it'll be much, much, much harder (though not impossible) to pin down a date. At best we'll probably be able to pin down the general period within a few thousand years, unless Tom throws us something extremely specific.
He could throw some kind of clue such as Otzi, which obviously wouldn't have been his name in life.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 24, 2012 15:09:20 GMT
Anyway, trying to update the graph, I found that the datapoints can NOT be fitted with a simple exponential curve anymore. the last two points go too fast! I had to use a double exponential, which doesn't make much sense except that it fits the points up till now, but we can throw the idea of a predefined pattern out of the window by now. I suspect that there is a predefined pattern, but it's linguistic, not mathematical. Several pages were devoted to years, decades and centuries. Millennia was the next logical step. I wonder if we're going to go much further; the Galatea-theory can't survive much longer at this rate...
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2012 15:18:21 GMT
Next: volcanic eruption at Thera. Jones survives it. Then looks up and says evenly: "Not enough gun."
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 15:22:23 GMT
Anyway, trying to update the graph, I found that the datapoints can NOT be fitted with a simple exponential curve anymore. the last two points go too fast! I had to use a double exponential, which doesn't make much sense except that it fits the points up till now, but we can throw the idea of a predefined pattern out of the window by now. I suspect that there is a predefined pattern, but it's linguistic, not mathematical. Several pages were devoted to years, decades and centuries. Millennia was the next logical step. I wonder if we're going to go much further; the Galatea-theory can't survive much longer at this rate... He has been giving us pretty specific dates (outside of the 20th and 21st century, this strip is the most specific) and given the sequence of a few (2,000 years ago probably counts as this) several, and many. However, after that, unless he does a string of many, many, many millenia, he'll have to do tens of millenia and hundreds of millenia. However, Tom knows and understands his audience EXTREMELY well (and his audience knows Tom just as well in that fashion), so he won't drag this out for too long, and he did say he would devote a chapter to Jones, so we have a ways to go yet.
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Post by q3 on Oct 24, 2012 15:32:36 GMT
Kyubey was intrigued when he finally met a human who felt no emotions, so he offered her a contract. After the first century or so he realized his mistake: no despair, live forever. (Has Annie ever met Madoka?)
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Post by legion on Oct 24, 2012 15:39:03 GMT
Jones is where it's at!
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notacat
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That's not me, that's my late cat Mimi: I'm not nearly so cute
Posts: 188
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Post by notacat on Oct 24, 2012 16:04:06 GMT
And the Tuck Everlasting example is so much worse because in that book immortality isn't a solitary thing, it's something that EVERYONE could conceivably have if the Tuck family weren't trying might and main to keep it a secret. You know what that makes them? That makes them responsible for every death and act of destruction that happened in the world after they decided to keep the spring of life a secret. That makes them the greatest murderers in human history. You might want to read around the subject for some ideas about how disastrous it would be for immortality to be generally available (imagine if the likes of Hitler, Dahmer, Kim Il Sung, etc could live for ever) not to mention the unlikelihood of it remaining so without government interference (likewise, imagine who would get to live for ever if it were under state control). Now, do those Tucks really look so bad when you think about it?
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Post by legion on Oct 24, 2012 16:14:30 GMT
And the Tuck Everlasting example is so much worse because in that book immortality isn't a solitary thing, it's something that EVERYONE could conceivably have if the Tuck family weren't trying might and main to keep it a secret. You know what that makes them? That makes them responsible for every death and act of destruction that happened in the world after they decided to keep the spring of life a secret. That makes them the greatest murderers in human history. That's not how responsability works. It's quite typical (but perfectly wrong) of the modern zeitgeist to believe that every bad thing that happens anywhere needs *someone* to blame, accidents and plain bad luck are no longer accepted. It's with this kind of reasoning that you give prison sentences to geologists, on the count of manslaughter, because they didn't correctly predict the occurence of an earthquake.
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Post by Aurelia Verity on Oct 24, 2012 16:26:30 GMT
Let's get on with it Tom. We know she's old. We know she's been there for everything. Please kill the suspense, it's killing me. I understand the impatience but on the other hand these scenes are important. First of all, Tom, as a writer, can't just say "she's old ok?", because that is bad writing. "Show don't tell" applies to sequential art just as it does to books, animation and live-action films. Also, there is more to this then just her age, what we are seeing is that Jones had witnessed the very history of humanity. She saw us first hand at out best and at our worst. This chapter puts into perspective among other things, the exchange she had with Headmaster in "The Fangs of Summertime": Jones: Ysengrin is drawing closer to the brink of insanity. The way he has distorted his body ... I've seen similar, but nothing quite like that. Headmaster: Coming from you that disturbs me greatly. Just think, Jones lived through massive destruction and horrors, she's seen so much: Gods, mystical being, dragons, Valkyries, god knows what else. And if she is surprised at Ysengrin's condition, think of how very bad it must be. I'm starting to doubt that anything good in Ysengrin can be saved.
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Post by exuberancium on Oct 24, 2012 16:31:11 GMT
I wonder if she's fire-resistant too, then - those flames licking at her legs seem a little too friendly. Welp exuberancium called that one yesterday. I love how his avatar made it look like Annie was just nonchalantly saying that over a lunch. "Yep, just gonna finish this pb&j, then set her on fire." Maybe tomorrow I'll make some muffins and send Jones into a black hole
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Post by Alexandragon on Oct 24, 2012 16:40:03 GMT
So, in chapter's end we will see first humans, I guess)
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 16:47:46 GMT
So, in chapter's end we will see first humans, I guess) Or more likely we will see the beginnings of civilization and the first cities and towns in the Fertile Cresent region. Maybe Jones had darker hair and skin deeper in the past, but we shall see,
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maximkat
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Post by maximkat on Oct 24, 2012 17:20:58 GMT
Things that don't hurt Jones: Time Pointy objects I think it's time to try fire. Well, there is your answer.
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