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Post by King Mir on Oct 24, 2012 7:44:13 GMT
Maybe Jones didn't have a beginning. She is a manifestation of the idea of a being who was around since the beginning of time, so from her perspective she was around since the beginning of time. However, she is still the product of human thought, and so had an influence on the world beginning much later. That would be consist4nt with Coyote's claim that she's the perfect example, and Annie's claim that she disproves the process.
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Post by sparky on Oct 24, 2012 7:44:29 GMT
This page makes me curious about her hair. Is it as resilient as the rest of her is? If so, at what rate does it grow? If not, did this fire cause her temporary baldness?
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Post by blackmantha on Oct 24, 2012 7:44:38 GMT
If she's indestructible, I wonder how she cuts her hair.
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 7:47:09 GMT
If we keep going back, at some point (very soon) it's going to start to become questionable why Jones is white. Going back much further than Rome there certainly aren't a lot of ancient white civilizations she could have come from. If her origins are extraterrestrial I would still have a question about why she was modeled by whatever maker after white people since, again, too much further back than Rome and white people are a pretty localized, rustic minority. Yeah, the Egyptians had a skin tone somewhat like Arabs, but they weren't white either, so that puts it into question, unless her skin got bleached or sonething. Still, she doesn't necessarily have to come from a civilization where they had light skin, just a culture of people who did.
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 7:48:53 GMT
Maybe Jones didn't have a beginning. She is a manifestation of the idea of a being who was around since the beginning of time, so from her perspective she was around since the beginning of time. However, she is still the product of human thought, and so had an influence on the world beginning much later. That would be consist4nt with Coyote's claim that she's the perfect example, and Annie's claim that she disproves the process. Still brings up the question of why she has white skin, why not have black skin? After all, the earliest humans had black skin.
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Post by smjjames on Oct 24, 2012 7:50:09 GMT
If she's indestructible, I wonder how she cuts her hair. Maybe her hair doesn't grow? Also, sorry for triple posting, too lazy to copy and paste and edit the thread using iPad.
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Post by King Mir on Oct 24, 2012 8:12:25 GMT
Maybe Jones didn't have a beginning. She is a manifestation of the idea of a being who was around since the beginning of time, so from her perspective she was around since the beginning of time. However, she is still the product of human thought, and so had an influence on the world beginning much later. That would be consist4nt with Coyote's claim that she's the perfect example, and Annie's claim that she disproves the process. Still brings up the question of why she has white skin, why not have black skin? After all, the earliest humans had black skin. I'm not saying she was a myth of early humans. Quite the contrary, I'm saying that she in some sense existed before she was conceived. It's sort of like time travel, but without intent to do so. Someone told stories about her always existing, so she always existed. It's like the trope of running into characters from your own story, except Jones is the character, and the author is unknown.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 8:13:02 GMT
If we keep going back, at some point (very soon) it's going to start to become questionable why Jones is white. Going back much further than Rome there certainly aren't a lot of ancient white civilizations she could have come from. If her origins are extraterrestrial I would still have a question about why she was modeled by whatever maker after white people since, again, too much further back than Rome and white people are a pretty localized, rustic minority. Ooh, you're right. Light-skinned people became prominent during the ancient Scythians (400 - 500 BC), who were considered an inferior culture. In this page where Jones is, however, The Great Fire of Rome (also the day indicating Emperor Nero's fall) occurred in July 19, AD 64. So, Jones is safe in this era. If we see her further back (which we might considering all these flashbacks), then the color of her skin becomes an issue in ancient Greece. Edit: If Jones's flashbacks go further back in history, let's say Ancient Egypt, perhaps we will see her as a slave of the Ancient Egyptians since slaves were lighter-skinned. However, if not light-skinned but still not Egyptian, slaves were still classified as a certain type of slave doing certain kinds of work.
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Post by zgarbas on Oct 24, 2012 8:32:56 GMT
What about the germanic tribes and all that, and the fact that she isn't white-skinned enough to be out of the ordinary in Ancient Greece? She's pretty tanned.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 24, 2012 8:35:40 GMT
Cookie to whoever said Jones was a smokin' hot babe. At least one more jump before secret origin time, methinks. Woooo, that would be me!
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Post by chendzeea on Oct 24, 2012 8:44:38 GMT
You know, Jones' general meh attitude and expression may have more to do with the grim knowledge and perspective of being so damn old. I'd imagine, especially if you've any normal human range of emotions. (Keyword Human) At that age I'd imagine time really flies by.
From her perspective it would feel as though most everyone she meets pretty much dies a few days or even hours after she meets them. Entire nations rise and fall over the course of a few weeks or months.
If it didn't drive you crazy. I'd imagine you would just take a sit back and watch. (Wandering Eye) attitude. Hard to get terribly emotional after enduring such a long life full of fleeting things. It would either break you or you would endure.
Looking at her reactions to attack and lack of damage, she may not even feel anything physically other than vague tactile sensations. Something else that would make things pretty dull. If I didn't go nuts I think I'd be pretty meh about most things too. "Seen it, done it. Oh you're doing that thing again." ect.
Her demeanor makes me think she may not have always been this way. Other beings we would think of as immortal are more animated. Take Coyote, and Mot for example.
This may all be simply due to some horrible curse. Death itself could have turned it's back on her for some reason.
Or she's literally the eye (avatar) of some deity or another.
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leah
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by leah on Oct 24, 2012 8:49:00 GMT
What about the germanic tribes and all that, and the fact that she isn't white-skinned enough to be out of the ordinary in Ancient Greece? She's pretty tanned. Oh sure, there were certainly some white cultures early on (though as smjjames rightly says, the first humans were black). I'm just saying that the majority of humanity and of humanity's civilizations and cultures were (and are) non-white, so I'm wondering if there will be a reason given that Jones is white instead of non-white. Something else I thought about this comic is that maybe we're making a stop in the burning of Rome partly to show that Annie's element is ineffective against Jones. Still wondering if Coyote's tooth could harm her.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 24, 2012 8:52:07 GMT
If we keep going back, at some point (very soon) it's going to start to become questionable why Jones is white. Going back much further than Rome there certainly aren't a lot of ancient white civilizations she could have come from. If her origins are extraterrestrial I would still have a question about why she was modeled by whatever maker after white people since, again, too much further back than Rome and white people are a pretty localized, rustic minority. Hmmm... the genes for white skin may be from about 10000 years ago. You do not need a whole civilization of white skinned people to have one Jones in them. However, that sets the limits there, we are not going to see her in the Savanna at 100000bc. She must have a beginning at some point and we should not be far from that now. Maybe just one more, and then - which would be the next Monday, by the way, which kind of would suite Tom's habits of keeping us in suspence. The alchemist theory, that I personally find exciting, is still within possibilities.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 8:57:08 GMT
What about the germanic tribes and all that, and the fact that she isn't white-skinned enough to be out of the ordinary in Ancient Greece? She's pretty tanned. You're right. Jones does appear tan in several pages, but it all could just be the lighting... or perhaps it's the way Tom inks and colors his pages which makes Jones's skin tone come out differently each time. Because notice how she is tan here and here (both indoors). But then notice how she is lighter-skinned here and here (both outdoors). So, if she's meant to be light-skinned or tan-skinned, we don't know.
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Post by noone3 on Oct 24, 2012 8:57:22 GMT
What about the germanic tribes and all that, and the fact that she isn't white-skinned enough to be out of the ordinary in Ancient Greece? She's pretty tanned. Actually even in Rome she stands out. With her hair she couldn't pose as a native Roman. Some barbaric provinces more likely, Slavic or Nordic... The same with Greece. This under assumption all those examples should be considered according to our own history and anthropology. This is still the Gunnerkrigg-verse, I don't personally remember any pan-historic eternal beings, like Coyote for example, present in our reality... though still I might be wrong.
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Post by chendzeea on Oct 24, 2012 8:58:54 GMT
If we keep going back, at some point (very soon) it's going to start to become questionable why Jones is white. Going back much further than Rome there certainly aren't a lot of ancient white civilizations she could have come from. If her origins are extraterrestrial I would still have a question about why she was modeled by whatever maker after white people since, again, too much further back than Rome and white people are a pretty localized, rustic minority. Hmmm... the genes for white skin may be from about 10000 years ago. You do not need a whole civilization of white skinned people to have one Jones in them. However, that sets the limits there, we are not going to see her in the Savanna at 100000bc. She must have a beginning at some point and we should not be far from that now. Maybe just one more, and then - which would be the next Monday, by the way, which kind of would suite Tom's habits of keeping us in suspence. The alchemist theory, that I personally find exciting, is still within possibilities. HA! perhaps shes a Neanderthal, they had redish hair.
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Post by philman on Oct 24, 2012 9:00:45 GMT
Regarding Jones' white skin, there were white humans before the Romans, but the Romans were the first major white european civilisation, before them most of the ancient civilisations were in the middle east or north africa. While there are certain areas where white skin was more prominent (the Caucasus for example, the region between Russia and Turkey including modern day countries Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan). Interestingly mythologically wise, according to Wikipedia the Caucasus was considered one of the pillars of the world by the greeks, and was where Prometheus was chained up after giving the knowledge of fire to humans. Also was supposed to be where Jason sailed to get the golden fleece from King Aeëtes of Colchis and his daughter Medea. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus#MythologyEDIT: Actually if we are going into it, even modern day and ancient iranians have fairly pale skin compared to many of the countries around them, europe may be the whitest region in the world but there are plenty of regions of the ancient world where pale skin was common.
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Aura
Junior Member
I'm a ninja!
Posts: 79
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Post by Aura on Oct 24, 2012 9:05:36 GMT
What about the germanic tribes and all that, and the fact that she isn't white-skinned enough to be out of the ordinary in Ancient Greece? She's pretty tanned. You're right. Jones does appear tan in several pages, but it all could just be the lighting... or perhaps it's the way Tom inks and colors his pages which makes Jones's skin tone come out differently each time. Because notice how she is tan here and here (both indoors). But then notice how she is lighter-skinned here and here (both outdoors). So, if she's meant to be light-skinned or tan-skinned, we don't know. I think she's definitely supposed to be tan-skinned because you'll notice that compared to the other people in each image she's quite a bit darker than they are (with the exception of that other lady who's name I forgot). The lighter skin in outdoor areas could just be because of lighting/ the sun hitting her face. EDIT: In regards to the actual page, it's likely that in Rome Jones could have been worshiped as a goddess. I mean, she doesn't age and she can't be hurt by conventional means. That must've been the life! She didn't have to move as often and probably got a lot of free stuff =D
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 24, 2012 9:06:24 GMT
The fire's cause is unknown. Maybe, a certain Roman redheaded girl had a temper tantrum.
Instead of Egypt, our next stop could be Crete and the Minoans. Their frescos depicted men's skin as reddish-brown and the women's white. A young Basil could perform a cameo.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 9:08:56 GMT
Oh my gosh. I just realized after posting this. You know how several of you have theorized that Coyote may be associated with Ra of Ancient Egypt? (At least, I think I remember several posts about it.) And you know how some of you said that Jones, aka "Wandering Eye," may represent Hathor or Sekhmet, the " Eyes of Ra?" Maybe we will see a flashback of Jones's and Coyote's first encounter in Ancient Egypt! I'm just jumping to conclusions here, hehe.
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Post by Xan on Oct 24, 2012 9:12:52 GMT
Let's get on with it Tom. We know she's old. We know she's been there for everything. Please kill the suspense, it's killing me. Suppose Jones honesly answers "I don't know", having spent millenia to try to find out? (Maybe this is why she is at the Court) Would THAT kill the suspense?
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 9:15:08 GMT
Let's get on with it Tom. We know she's old. We know she's been there for everything. Please kill the suspense, it's killing me. Suppose Jones honesly answers "I don't know", having spent millenia to try to find out? (Maybe this is why she is at the Court) Would THAT kill the suspense? Annie: "What are you?" Jones: "I don't know." I just got chills.
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 24, 2012 9:20:00 GMT
Suppose Jones honesly answers "I don't know", having spent millenia to try to find out? (Maybe this is why she is at the Court) Would THAT kill the suspense? Annie: "What are you?" Jones: "I don't know." I just got chills. Annie: "What are you?" Jones: "Old." Annie shrugs with a silly smile, "That's Jones!" Sad trombone sound plays. That's how I see it going down.
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Post by dailenna on Oct 24, 2012 9:22:11 GMT
alexh - ah, gotcha! I'll just blame that slip on my cold muddling my head ^^; Jones looks rather emotive on this page. In previous pages you can sort of pick up what she's feeling without much on her face, but either she's not as practiced at keeping her face straight at this point, or the situation (ie. whole city burning in a fire) is serious enough to warrant the slight upturn of the inside of her eyebrows. I wonder if she'll be more emotive in the next page, too.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 24, 2012 9:34:51 GMT
Annie: "What are you?" Jones: "I don't know." I just got chills. Annie: "What are you?" Jones: "Old." Annie shrugs with a silly smile, "That's Jones!" Sad trombone sound plays. That's how I see it going down. Hahaha! I wouldn't know if I'd be furious with Tom or just laugh hysterically. Wouldn't it be funny if Annie hadn't finished her sentence and was like... Annie: "What are you—?" Jones: ... *flashbacks* ... Annie: "—going to be for Halloween?" or Annie: "What are you—?" Jones: ... *flashbacks* ... Annie: "—doing later? Let's grab some lunch." xD
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Post by foresterr on Oct 24, 2012 9:35:04 GMT
For me Jones' face was never really emotionless, but permanently stuck somewhere close to mild annoyance (mild boredom at best). The farther back we get, the stronger the annoyance gets ;D
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Post by dailenna on Oct 24, 2012 9:42:39 GMT
Ay, I didn't mean that she was (or looked) emotionless before - that's one thing that I've never particularly agreed with - just that she didn't give much away. She's less subtle than usual on this page.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 24, 2012 10:07:02 GMT
Regarding Jones' white skin, there were white humans before the Romans, but the Romans were the first major white european civilisation Hmmm... Although this seems a bit counter-intuitive today, the ancient Greeks were depicted, if not predominantly, at least importantly as blonds. In Iliad, for example, they are regularly recognized by their long blond hair. Also their gods and heros tend to be blond. This may have not accurately described their majority, for various reasons. One is that blond/white has been used as a code for good/noble, as opposed to black that even amongst the civilizations that we today call "black" would have signaled bad/death (and that they thus would not use of themselves, and why would they, very few people actually do have white or black skin colour). Another possibility is that the blond colour was in fact more rare, and for this reason considered preferable. While the latter explanation alone seems very implausible, a combination seems good. In any event, apparently there also was a significant amount of actually blond people amongst the Greeks. I get it that it was the second wave of Greek population (Dorians, right?) were more light coloured (which would explain the blonds of Iliad in three nice ways: 1. as the Dorians practically took over the Peloponnese they probably distinguished themselves of the previous population partly by skin colour; 2. as they formed an aristocracy there, their blondness might have been associated with that; 3. the Greek warriors at Troy were for a large part Dorians (Spartans, Cretans, for example). I have also understood that just like in the Apennine Peninsula, also in Greece the darker skin tone only became predominant following the invasions from south. "EDIT: Actually if we are going into it, even modern day and ancient iranians have fairly pale skin compared to many of the countries around them, europe may be the whitest region in the world but there are plenty of regions of the ancient world where pale skin was common." Just noted this. I considered a similar point as well. But contended to mention the (Dorian) Greeks.
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Rymdljus
Full Member
Beautiful songbird
Posts: 207
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Post by Rymdljus on Oct 24, 2012 10:26:17 GMT
One of my favorites books, Arken (The Ark) by Peter Nilson, tells the story of Benjamin, a man who turns out to be immortal, much to his own surprise. The book starts out in the age of myth, where he is among the first humans created by God, and the reader gets to follow him though the ages right up to the end of the universe, when he is the last human alive.
It is never explained what Benjamin is, but it is hinted that he might be a kind of a vessel for humanity, or for all living things. Kind of a backbone for life. He is the only thing that exists in all the ages until the end of time.
This chapter reminds me a bit of Arken. I wonder if Jones is something like that? Probably not, but I might as well say it before the similarities end. ^^
Being immortal must be a terrible fate, and should be enough in itself to wash away the emotions from someone. After a while you might not even remember how to laugh.
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Post by graham on Oct 24, 2012 10:33:59 GMT
I just remembered something. Read the title of this chapter again. What else could she be? Ever notice how the name of this chapter hasn't been touched upon at all?
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