alexh
Full Member
Posts: 113
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Post by alexh on Oct 25, 2012 18:31:56 GMT
Theory 1) The theme in this chapter is obviously that we're moving farther and farther back, which means that the ultimate destination is the beginning of time (provided we go back that far). What if Jones was once a regular woman, or a stone (as this page may be foreshadowing) or perhaps the stars in the night sky even. And people then saw her and formed a myth about her (just like how people formed myths about coyote). But this particular myth was that she was present at the beginning of time. Perhaps she's something like a guardian figure or maintainer. This would cause Annie to say "You can't be right, because then Jones couldn't exist, because she was around before her myths ever existed." to which Coyote would say "But that's just it, the mind of man is so powerful and hungry for answers that if it can believe someone existed at the beginning of time, then they can make it so" I think this is the only reasonable theory involving Jones being alive sice the beginning of time. She needs to have human input or she can't exist, so she needs to have been created after humans were evolved/created. Actually, i wonder if in a universe like this... Is there evolution?
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Post by tustin2121 on Oct 25, 2012 20:40:27 GMT
Aside: Jones stands there and looks at the horror that is Rome burning. "Dammit, this is all Bobo's fault..."
[We now return you to your regularly scheduled serious discussion.]
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Post by 123456789blaaa on Oct 25, 2012 20:43:29 GMT
You might want to read around the subject for some ideas about how disastrous it would be for immortality to be generally available (imagine if the likes of Hitler, Dahmer, Kim Il Sung, etc could live for ever) not to mention the unlikelihood of it remaining so without government interference (likewise, imagine who would get to live for ever if it were under state control). Now, do those Tucks really look so bad when you think about it? I fail to see the problem with Hitler, Dahmer, Kim Il Sung, etc living forever. Because, if they live forever, then so do the people they control. And there is a reason that organizations like the Hitler Youth and the Brownshirts were so essential to Hitler acquiring power. A political movement like that thrives on the ignorance of the young. Give the people Hitler was trying to control a few hundred years of experience, and I don't see him having a chance in hell of doing more than talking himself hoarse. Besides, immortality, even of the indestructible Jones variety, does not preclude execution. Put immortal Hitler in a block of concrete and drop it in a deep ocean trench and I'd imagine that by the time plate subduction brings him to shore he'd be... harmless. I'd like to see some references to what you would suggest reading on the subject, because I have never read anything talking about the wonders of mortality that didn't sound like someone trying to convince themselves that their terminal disease is really a good thing. That's not how responsibility works. It's quite typical (but perfectly wrong) of the modern zeitgeist to believe that every bad thing that happens anywhere needs *someone* to blame, accidents and plain bad luck are no longer accepted. It's with this kind of reasoning that you give prison sentences to geologists, on the count of manslaughter, because they didn't correctly predict the occurrence of an earthquake. That's not how responsibility works? Really? So you're saying that if, hypothetically, everyone on earth were suffering from a deadly plague and had at most a year to live, and I had unlimited quantities of a drug that could cure them, and I said, "No, to hell with them, let them die," that I wouldn't be responsible for the death of everyone on Earth? And that I also wouldn't be responsible for the rioting and property damage which might potentially occur when everyone realized they had less than a year to live? Do you see how this is exactly like the situation that Tuck Everlasting is based on, with the only exaggeration being that some of the people in the book had more than a year to live? What, exactly, does this have to do with imprisoning geologists because they failed to predict an earthquake correctly? How does that relate in any way? I don't think we have enough information to really have a definite opinion on the subject. Immortality is a word that encompasses a very wide variety of things with many factors and variables involved. For example: there are many different types of immortality from the "living forever but also growing older" immortality from the red circled forehead people in Gulliver's travels to the tuckers family immortality in that book. Without having more information, we can't devise solutions to the many problems that crop up (overcrowding for example). I have faith in the ability of humankind to circumvent those problems. For example: when the car was first invented most people thought it wouldn't catch on because of the many problems with it. As time went on however, humankind was able to fix many of those problems and now the car has completely replaced the horse and carriage. I just think we need more data. (apologies if anything I just said didn't make sense. I sometimes have trouble putting my thoughts to text).
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Post by Amethyst on Oct 25, 2012 20:44:03 GMT
Ah yes, Nero Burning ROM. I mean Rome.
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Post by Marnath on Oct 26, 2012 0:21:55 GMT
If she's indestructible, I wonder how she cuts her hair. She doesn't. She just changes the style up so that it looks different. go back and you'll see that all her hair-dos would come down to the same spot if undone.
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Post by legion on Oct 26, 2012 0:26:27 GMT
That's not how responsibility works? Responsability is to assume the consequence of your actions. You cannot be responsible for something that happens independently of your existence —something that would happen exactly the same way if you didn't exist. Arguing otherwise pretty much means that everyone is responsible for everything bad that happens everywhere in their lifetime that they didn't do a thing about. Which is exactly what you're doing with the immortality example (not to mention that this and the plague example are based on the sophism of extremities: you posit impossibly unlikely situations, and then use these situations to draw generic conclusions about everyday life).
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Post by sparky on Oct 26, 2012 0:35:21 GMT
I think she cuts it. She tried letting it grow out once when she was living in Germany, but then there was an unfortunate incident involving a tower.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 26, 2012 0:56:21 GMT
Responsability is to assume the consequence of your actions. You cannot be responsible for something that happens independently of your existence —something that would happen exactly the same way if you didn't exist. Responsibility is a pretty complex affair. In this particular point I have to disagree with you, and so does the law. If you see a person drowing, your responsibility is to interfere. If you see a murder in progress, you don't act like you're not even there. You're not required to act personally, but not even trying to report is an act of criminal negligence. It can be argued that if you have the means to save millions with no cost to yourself but don't, it's the same deal on a larger scale. Inaction can also be an action.
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Post by Rhuarc on Oct 26, 2012 1:16:56 GMT
Responsibility is a tricky subject. You should not be held responsible for actions or inactions that you could have no reasonable way to accomplish, but in the example of plague and cure, the one with the cure is most assuredly responsible for the lack thereof. Now if he could not distribute it to anyone outside of his sept, then he should not be held responsible for anyone outside his sept.
But, if you can do something and do not, it is your choice and your responsibility.
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Post by warrl on Oct 28, 2012 3:22:19 GMT
I think she cuts it. She tried letting it grow out once when she was living in Germany, but then there was an unfortunate incident involving a tower. I played that character in a D&D game. Well, the Disney/Pixar version of that character.
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