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Post by niklink on Mar 7, 2011 18:02:48 GMT
IDEA:
At the end of chapter 13, Alistair goes away to live in Gillitie Forest. You know, where Annie just spent three months? It also says that Kat never sees him again, but is it possible that Annie brings some sort of message from him?
Yay wild mass guessing!
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Post by joephlommin on Mar 7, 2011 18:06:12 GMT
gah kat cmon lighten up.
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Post by smjjames on Mar 7, 2011 18:18:47 GMT
IDEA: At the end of chapter 13, Alistair goes away to live in Gillitie Forest. You know, where Annie just spent three months? It also says that Kat never sees him again, but is it possible that Annie brings some sort of message from him? Yay wild mass guessing! I dunno, in Toms formspring archive (http://chrysoprax.org/gunnerkrigg/results?term=animal), he didn't specifically say whether people who transform into animals in Gillitie forest retain their sentience or not. However, Alistair seems to have retained his memories and sentience throughout the transformation, even when he could no longer talk. There are many reasons why Kat would no longer see him again, including the fact that Gillitie forest is suppoused to be huge.
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Post by paxjax123 on Mar 7, 2011 18:47:11 GMT
Gah, the more I read this page the worse I feel. I think I might actually cry. I hope they make up quickly...
Although I have to say I dig Kat's haircut.
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Mar 7, 2011 18:58:59 GMT
I dunno, in Toms formspring archive (http://chrysoprax.org/gunnerkrigg/results?term=animal), he didn't specifically say whether people who transform into animals in Gillitie forest retain their sentience or not. However, Alistair seems to have retained his memories and sentience throughout the transformation, even when he could no longer talk. There are many reasons why Kat would no longer see him again, including the fact that Gillitie forest is suppoused to be huge. hrrrn I have a memory of Tom saying that Alistair transformed completely into a bird with a bird brain and everything that implies. Of course I cannot now find where he said that, so.
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Post by smjjames on Mar 7, 2011 19:13:59 GMT
I dunno, in Toms formspring archive (http://chrysoprax.org/gunnerkrigg/results?term=animal), he didn't specifically say whether people who transform into animals in Gillitie forest retain their sentience or not. However, Alistair seems to have retained his memories and sentience throughout the transformation, even when he could no longer talk. There are many reasons why Kat would no longer see him again, including the fact that Gillitie forest is suppoused to be huge. hrrrn I have a memory of Tom saying that Alistair transformed completely into a bird with a bird brain and everything that implies. Of course I cannot now find where he said that, so. In the archive that I linked to, Tom actually answered a bunch of questions related to the animal transformation and he consistently gave vague answers to all of them, so it's really inconclusive right now. Also, just because he has the brain of a bird doesn't neccesarily imply loss of intelligence, there are birds who rank pretty high in intelligence, crows, ravens, their kin, and parrots among them.
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Post by scatter on Mar 7, 2011 19:17:23 GMT
For some reason, I am strongly reminded of the break in friendship between the fairies, Red and Blue.
All Annie has to do is make her hair go up!
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Post by niklink on Mar 7, 2011 19:32:07 GMT
For some reason, I am strongly reminded of the break in friendship between the fairies, Red and Blue. All Annie has to do is make her hair go up! I want to see the haircut montage this time around!
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Mar 7, 2011 19:49:54 GMT
All Annie has to do is make her hair go up! man it just about is, the way it's flipping all over the place
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Post by paxjax123 on Mar 7, 2011 19:57:47 GMT
Ugh. I found a troll in the comments.
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Post by kelseyg on Mar 7, 2011 20:03:49 GMT
Oh Noo! A sad update! The saddest update! D:
That said, Kat's haircut is awesome.
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Post by hargharg on Mar 7, 2011 20:08:04 GMT
I sure as hell hope they will start getting over this quickly. They should discuss this with each other, confront the problems, and carry on with the story. It's not good when someone makes assumptions based on second-hand information. Of course, Wednesday is only one and a half day away, so we don't have to wait much to find out which way this will go. : D ED: Kat's new hairdo is .
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Post by Eversist on Mar 7, 2011 20:15:54 GMT
I thought that the treatise was a summary of what had happened in THAT book, it doesn't foreshadow the future. So the newest one with Annie and Kat standing back to back doesn't necessarily imply that they'll make up, because that's representing what happens in the third book (which ended last chapter). I'm sure they will, but the treatise can't be used as proof.
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Post by Amethyst on Mar 7, 2011 20:22:32 GMT
Either Anja did a very poor job of explaining what happened to Annie, or Kat's just being a selfish jerk. Annie was basically crushed under the guilt of supposedly having killed her own mother and ran away in tatters. No sympathy Kat? Really? "I'm butt-hurt because we were supposed to go to Scotland together." Seriously.
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vollie
Junior Member
oh, triple wow!
Posts: 76
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Post by vollie on Mar 7, 2011 20:53:33 GMT
I thought that the treatise was a summary of what had happened in THAT book, it doesn't foreshadow the future. So the newest one with Annie and Kat standing back to back doesn't necessarily imply that they'll make up, because that's representing what happens in the third book (which ended last chapter). I'm sure they will, but the treatise can't be used as proof. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tom say somewhere it does both (summarize the past and foreshadow the future)?
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Post by hargharg on Mar 7, 2011 21:01:03 GMT
Either Anja did a very poor job of explaining what happened to Annie, or Kat's just being a selfish jerk. Annie was basically crushed under the guilt of supposedly having killed her own mother and ran away in tatters. No sympathy Kat? Really? "I'm butt-hurt because we were supposed to go to Scotland together." Seriously. She's butthurt because Annie didn't say a word to her about this. And we don't know what else Kat learned from others... Though it seems to be a bit of an overreaction. At this time.
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Post by Eversist on Mar 7, 2011 21:06:40 GMT
I thought that the treatise was a summary of what had happened in THAT book, it doesn't foreshadow the future. So the newest one with Annie and Kat standing back to back doesn't necessarily imply that they'll make up, because that's representing what happens in the third book (which ended last chapter). I'm sure they will, but the treatise can't be used as proof. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tom say somewhere it does both (summarize the past and foreshadow the future)? From the FormSpring Archives: "If there will be a 'Treatise' page after this chapter, will it both reference past events and foreshadow future ones in the comic? yes" "Is there stuff in the third treatise that has yet to be referenced, or is it all about stuff that happened before you made it? No, there is stuff in there that hasn't happened yet." You're absolutely right. My bad. D:
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 7, 2011 21:08:26 GMT
What's past is prologue.
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anisky
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by anisky on Mar 7, 2011 22:07:58 GMT
Lots of interesting insights here! Like a lot of you, I'm not entirely sure how to interpret Kat's behavior. But even though it's cold-shoulder-y, it doesn't strike me as angry, nor as an "I'm done with this girl" thing. I think it's the "Hey, Annie." Yes, she's all stoic when she says it, but if I were in Kat's place and I were trying to send the message that I didn't want anything to do with Annie, why not go with "Hello, Antimony"? Other people have mentioned that she called her "Annie" instead of "Antimony", but I also find the "Hey" rather significant. "Hello, Antimony" would send a pretty clear message. It's technically polite, and it's not instigating a fight, but it still says "I am not relating to you as a friend" pretty loudly. I know I'm reading a lot into a single word and a nickname. But her greeting along with her blankness strikes me more as trying unsuccessfully to hide hurt than anything. That or an internal conflict... or both. Yeah, she's had all summer to work through her feelings about what Annie did. But no way she achieved actual indifference about her best friend (and kind of only friend) of two years. She doesn't seem to be attempting to rub anything in Annie's face at this point; "Hello, Antimony. / Hi, Rey! How are you?" would do that, but Kat greets Renard as coldly as she does Annie. Possibly Kat is upset with Rey as well, or perhaps she's been dreading seeing Annie again and is just trying to get through it as quickly as she can. My vote is that Kat's trying to cover up hurt feelings with forced casualness. I also agree with previous posters that it would be interesting if Kat and Annie don't make up right away. It's kind of bothered me a little that neither of them really has any other friends, and I've been hoping that as they get older they'll meet more people they click with and develop a wider social circle. A somewhat prolonged estrangement would push both of them to find new people to hang out with, and with Annie's shiny new outgoing manner, now seems like a pretty good time for her to make some new friends. Then, when they make up, hopefully they'll both be a bit more well-adjusted. Plus, Kat's likely to keep working on the robots and finding out the Court side of the mystery, and Annie's learned about things from the Forest side (and presumably will continue to do so). So it would be cool if each of them has a piece of the puzzle when they become friends again.
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snuggly
New Member
The last man on earth sat in a room. There was a knock upon the door.
Posts: 28
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Post by snuggly on Mar 7, 2011 22:22:02 GMT
I have a thought. What if Kat was simply trying to maintain the distance that antimony injected into their relationship? I mean, if you are willing to simply leave without a word to your best friend, how solid of a relationship do you think there is? I think Kat may be relating that principle directly and is trying to make an effort to stay distant as it was "proved" that antimony does not take the relationship seriously.
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Post by Refugee on Mar 7, 2011 22:24:14 GMT
We've seen about, what, two or three minutes? I'm not willing to put too much on that.
However, not only is Annie the guilty party, if guilt there is, but again, I'm getting a vibe of, "I'm back! Your life is once again complete!".
She really needs to press how glad she is to see Kat, how interested she is in Kat's summer, what's the latest gossip, and damn, I'm so sorry I ran out on you like that; not a day passed I didn't think of you.
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Post by hal9000 on Mar 7, 2011 22:26:09 GMT
Either Anja did a very poor job of explaining what happened to Annie, or Kat's just being a selfish jerk. Annie was basically crushed under the guilt of supposedly having killed her own mother and ran away in tatters. No sympathy Kat? Really? "I'm butt-hurt because we were supposed to go to Scotland together." Seriously. Seriously? They're 14-year-old girls, and Kat almost certainly doesn't have perfect information about just exactly what went down or why. The amount of factionalism here over what amounts to a minor snub (not even an outburst, just a slightly less than enthusiastic greeting) is getting ridiculous.
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Post by theheroineseven on Mar 7, 2011 22:40:12 GMT
Hey, a question: Have we seen Annie actually apologizing to anyone so far? She didn't apologize to Renard, she just admitted she had been wrong and then "wished she hadn't been so cruel". Carver, you are missing the "I'm sorry Renard" part. Now I didn't have the time to check for other situations like this (is there a GC-transcript anywhere? ctrl+f would work a lot faster, haha). But I suspect that Annie is one of those people who have a hard time apologizing. And that character trait sucks! (I now that, I'm one of those people myself) I hope to see Annie overcome this. A serious "I'm sorry" would work a lot better than boot-bribery. (The boots are awesome though! I'm looking forward seeng Kat wearing them!) I think she apologized once here,EDIT: and here, but she didn't have the same relationship with Zimmy that she has with Kat. In this scenario I think it'll be much harder for her to apologize because she hasn't encountered this kind of situation before. Before coming the Court and meeting Kat, Annie's only friends, if you call them friends, were the psychopomps--and it's not like she's having super close relationships with any of them at the moment. Kat is her first real friend, and having not have had too many friends before her, this is a completely new conflict that will not be so easy for Annie to solve, especially given how she usually resolves things quite rationally. The boot bribery may be her somewhat clumsy, but eager way to show how sorry she is and how much she really cares for Kat. Because she does care for Kat a great deal, even if her taking off may seem to indicate otherwise. For all her eloquence, Antimony seems to lack skills at communicating how she feels with others, which is more than understandable given her background. In that regard, she seems to be channeling her dad. However, like many have already said, I do think the forest has really helped her open up emotionally, so that may help her resolve things with Kat, be it sooner or later.
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Post by hawkeye on Mar 7, 2011 22:40:56 GMT
I wonder if Kat is just worn down from a fairly lonely holiday. *shrugs* She was expecting to go on a fun holiday with her best friend, instead she spent it with her parents. All the things they did, she would have been thinking about how much more fun it would have been if Annie had been there.
This might have also brought it home to her that she doesn't have too many other close friends, which would have made the holiday, as I said, fairly lonely and resulted in a more withdrawn Kat, at least temporarily.
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Post by todd on Mar 7, 2011 23:37:41 GMT
Zimmy and Gamma, if you consider them friends, also probably won't. They don't seem interested in whatever goes on with the Court and the Wood unless it affects them directly; their relationship with each other and Zimmy's problems with her nightmare world are more important to them. (Which might be a metafictional reflection of their having been originally conceived indepentently of "Gunnerkrigg Court"; they really seem more designed to be the leads of their own web-comic - if Tom ever makes that spin-off - rather than supporting characters in this one.)
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Post by rafk on Mar 8, 2011 1:20:57 GMT
Kat being cold to Annie makes me sad.
Annie's going to need to explain to Kat why she ran out on their planned summer together without a word and valued staying in the forest over spending time with Kat. Kat may or may not have had news of Annie via Jones, but it's not the same thing.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Mar 8, 2011 1:48:24 GMT
A thought with potentially disturbing implications occurs to me: Where, in the forest, did Annie obtain the leather to make boots?Also, Jones was asked to report what happened to Kat, but who knows if she did or what she actually said or how it was taken. Version 1: Jones says to Kat, "Carver decided to stay in the forest over the summer," walks off leaving Kat standing there. Version 2: Jones says to Kat, "Antimony had a fight with Rey where he accused her of killing her mother, and let her know everyone knew about it but just never bothered to tell her. Oh, and this was right after he railroaded her about copying your homework. In tears, she ran off to the forest to get verification from Coyote and in the process nearly killed Mr. Eglamore by accident* because she couldn't control her powers. When she got the forest, she found out she wasn't human, and that this had something to do with how badly she lost her temper. She needed some help learning her powers and so she decided to stay on over the summer to help avoid causing future issues. She said she sends you her love." If I had to guess, I would say Version 1. From the comic you linked, we see that Jones was not happy with Annie's decision to stay in Gillitie; Jones will have little inclination to go out of her way to minimize the consequences for Annie. That, and patching things up with her best friend will be excellent practice for a Medium candidate. Boots: Interesting choice of gift considering that Antimony is unshod. Self-imposed penance? I think Annie prefers to go barefoot.
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Post by smjjames on Mar 8, 2011 2:08:49 GMT
A thought with potentially disturbing implications occurs to me: Where, in the forest, did Annie obtain the leather to make boots?A deer maybe? As we all know, the laws of nature rule there, predator vs prey, tooth and claw, survival of the fittest and all that. More than likely, it's from some animal that the Anwyn hunt. We have to realize that the forest is huge (if not vast) and before she spent the summer, the inhabitants were hiding from her, so we didn't see much else besides Ysengrim and Coyote.
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Post by theheroineseven on Mar 8, 2011 2:32:45 GMT
Mezzaphor: I agree, I think Jones probably didn't say more than was necessary--we've seen that she does like let to people learn and figure things out on their own, and fixing things up with Kat would certainly qualify if not, like you mentioned, help Annie become a better medium. rafk, yeah they do need to talk about it. It may not fix everything but it would explain a lot and it would probably clear some things up between them. I was just thinking that perhaps instead of an instant reconciliation or a prolonged estrangement, perhaps what might happen is that they talk, sort of reconcile (or make a truce), but that the issue won't have completely resolved itself for a while and some awkwardness will remain.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Mar 8, 2011 3:55:45 GMT
I wonder if Kat is just worn down from a fairly lonely holiday. *shrugs* She was expecting to go on a fun holiday with her best friend, instead she spent it with her parents. All the things they did, she would have been thinking about how much more fun it would have been if Annie had been there. This might have also brought it home to her that she doesn't have too many other close friends, which would have made the holiday, as I said, fairly lonely and resulted in a more withdrawn Kat, at least temporarily. That's what I'm hoping for. Kat is emotionally fragile also, so she may just be expressing a combination of weariness and wariness, given both her own long summer and the circumstances surrounding Annie's sudden departure. She doesn't know what has happened to her friend, but obviously something significant, so she's being reserved (while still expressing a little of her resentment) until she has a better feel for what the status of their relationship is. I think once she knows where things lie, she'll be more vocal about things. Kaboom....
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