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Post by TBeholder on Jan 6, 2011 5:41:10 GMT
Describe the phoenix's mate. Blasted if i remember its name, but there was a novel about this approach to the phoenix's reproduction. In one word? Fuel.
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Post by warrl on Jan 6, 2011 6:07:57 GMT
One odd thing I really noticed in this page: Coyote is a Slinky.
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Post by christopher on Jan 7, 2011 1:44:39 GMT
WHY wouldn't Surma explain all this to her daughter? She HAD plenty of time. Would you mention that sort of stuff to your child before she hit 11? I wouldn't.
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Post by jayne on Jan 7, 2011 2:06:07 GMT
WHY wouldn't Surma explain all this to her daughter? She HAD plenty of time. Would you mention that sort of stuff to your child before she hit 11? I wouldn't. Lets see... if my 11 year old daughter had cancer, I'd be the one to talk to her about it. If I had cancer and knew she also had cancer, I wouldn't remain quiet even though the news is terrible. So, your turn again. You have a condition that is killing you and your child also has this condition. Would you be the one to explain this to your child or would you remain quiet about it? Or look at it the other way, You and one of your parents has cancer but you don't know it and your parent does. Would you want to hear this from them or find out after they're gone?
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Post by Elaienar on Jan 7, 2011 21:40:07 GMT
If Surma had told her, I'm sure she would have tried to make sure that Antimony didn't blame herself, but there's no knowing if she would have been able to. Kids are always feeling guilty about things their parents do. I imagine the various adults in Antimony's life took that into consideration when they decided not to tell her.
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Post by jayne on Jan 7, 2011 22:07:07 GMT
At some point they had to explain to Annie that Surma was dying. She spent her whole life in a hospital so it would have all seemed very normal to her but at some point, they would have had to talk to her.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 3:29:52 GMT
One problem with telling Annie is that they would have had to explain that Annie won't be taken by a Guide. It's not an easy thing to soften saying that she's the one member of humanity that won't be going to the afterlife.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jan 8, 2011 4:06:28 GMT
One problem with telling Annie is that they would have had to explain that Annie won't be taken by a Guide. It's not an easy thing to soften saying that she's the one member of humanity that won't be going to the afterlife. Surma passed her "flame" on to Annie, but there was still part of her soul left for Annie to escort into the Aether. So Annie can look forward to having her soul's leftovers escorted into the Aether by her daughter.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 4:18:39 GMT
One problem with telling Annie is that they would have had to explain that Annie won't be taken by a Guide. It's not an easy thing to soften saying that she's the one member of humanity that won't be going to the afterlife. Surma passed her "flame" on to Annie, but there was still part of her soul left for Annie to escort into the Aether. So Annie can look forward to having her soul's leftovers escorted into the Aether by her daughter. That's a small condolence when even the lowliest ant gets taken by a Guide. On top of that, it is not known that Surma had taken her mother into the Aether. There is much about that event that Reynardine's comment "There was nothing left to take" puts into question.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 4:27:31 GMT
Perhaps; there's also more gruesome versions where the baby bird or larval phoenix feasts on the decaying carcass of its predecessor. But if it's the case that Antimony consumed Surma just like in the phoenix myth, which is not exactly what Renard said, then I think we have to believe that Antimony didn't take Surma by the hand and guide her to the afterlife like it appears. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to believe Antimony ate whatever was left of her mother? I like this theory.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2011 5:39:13 GMT
Perhaps; there's also more gruesome versions where the baby bird or larval phoenix feasts on the decaying carcass of its predecessor. But if it's the case that Antimony consumed Surma just like in the phoenix myth, which is not exactly what Renard said, then I think we have to believe that Antimony didn't take Surma by the hand and guide her to the afterlife like it appears. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to believe Antimony ate whatever was left of her mother? I like this theory. It's more of a factoid then a theory. It may entertain you to ponder this related factoid: The gender of the phoenix as female isn't as settled as conventional wisdom would have it. Because they immolate and thereby lay eggs or birth themselves as live young, when gendered the phoenix has been assumed to be female EXCEPT when associated with royalty where it is male. Even worse: According to Wiki the Islamic version is hermaphroditic and bilaterally asymmetrical with the gendered traits. Try to scrub that image out of your brain once you've imagined it. Even if Antimony does turn out to be a phoenix descendant I doubt Mr. Siddell would touch on such an iffy topic but it is fun to contemplate an "I absolutely did not expect this" moment for Jack in, say, the latter stage of date #5.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 6:19:21 GMT
I was referring to the speculation about Annie eating her mother, not the factoid about phoenixes.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 9, 2011 2:00:03 GMT
There was something mentioned a while ago by someone else about why Annie had to do the escorting of her mother.
It's possible that the guides didn't come for Surma simply because they didn't want to. Big Bird head said none of them came for her. Not that they absolutely couldn't. Maybe they get something out of the whole soul escort thing? Like something left behind when the person passes on. Annie took it for herself so none of the guides cared. What's in it for them?
I forget where it's mentioned, but it was mentioned on this board that all the dead end up in the same place anyway. Doesn't matter who takes them. Was this a tidbit from tom? I seem to remember.. ugh. Anyway, it could be a clue. Why do the guides care who takes who? Unless the one who takes the person gets whatever they leave behind when they die.
Sorry to make you guys fact check for me [again], but I can hardly remember what day it is. Remembering the thousand different tidbits of this comic is impossible.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jan 9, 2011 2:12:12 GMT
There was something mentioned a while ago by someone else about why Annie had to do the escorting of her mother. It's possible that the guides didn't come for Surma simply because they didn't want to. Big Bird head said none of them came for her. Not that they absolutely couldn't. Maybe they get something out of the whole soul escort thing? Like something left behind when the person passes on. Annie took it for herself so none of the guides cared. What's in it for them? I suspect something very similar. Yup.For future reference, the GC wiki has a nice index of stuff Tom has said, organized by subject.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 9, 2011 2:37:34 GMT
..There is a wiki? Wow.
Well then, it's possible the guides don't do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Which also leaves me wondering what they let move on after they get the life force. Whatever it was that Annie escorted, I imagine. Just raw memory?
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Post by King Mir on Jan 9, 2011 3:02:22 GMT
There was something mentioned a while ago by someone else about why Annie had to do the escorting of her mother. It's possible that the guides didn't come for Surma simply because they didn't want to. Big Bird head said none of them came for her. Not that they absolutely couldn't. Maybe they get something out of the whole soul escort thing? Like something left behind when the person passes on. Annie took it for herself so none of the guides cared. What's in it for them? I forget where it's mentioned, but it was mentioned on this board that all the dead end up in the same place anyway. Doesn't matter who takes them. Was this a tidbit from tom? I seem to remember.. ugh. Anyway, it could be a clue. Why do the guides care who takes who? Unless the one who takes the person gets whatever they leave behind when they die. Sorry to make you guys fact check for me [again], but I can hardly remember what day it is. Remembering the thousand different tidbits of this comic is impossible. Except that Reynardine recently gave the reason no Guides came for her: there was nothing left to take.So the two possibilities as I see it was either she didn't really take her mother to the Aether in place of the Guides or that the Guides were mistaken, just just as Reynardine is mistaken that their was nothing left. It is in my view very likely that the Guides were of the same mind as Reynardine on this issue.
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Post by warrl on Jan 9, 2011 9:16:16 GMT
On top of that, it is not known that Surma had taken her mother into the Aether. There is much about that event that Reynardine's comment "There was nothing left to take" puts into question. Including how thoroughly Rey understands that aspect of the situation.
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Post by Elaienar on Jan 9, 2011 23:21:21 GMT
On top of that, it is not known that Surma had taken her mother into the Aether. There is much about that event that Reynardine's comment "There was nothing left to take" puts into question. Including how thoroughly Rey understands that aspect of the situation. And how much of what he said was a grain of truth soaked in the water of anger until it expanded to the size of a walnut. ...I think I need to work on my metaphors.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 10, 2011 4:44:48 GMT
I see no reason to think he was being deceptive when he said that. Emphasizing the negative, yes. But there was more than a grain there to begin with.
And yes, farming metaphors are somewhat out the scope of the average person's knowledge. Does wheat really expand to walnut size?
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Post by Elaienar on Jan 10, 2011 5:41:43 GMT
I see no reason to think he was being deceptive when he said that. Emphasizing the negative, yes. But there was more than a grain there to begin with. And yes, farming metaphors are somewhat out the scope of the average person's knowledge. Does wheat really expand to walnut size? Haha, I have no idea about wheat. I know corn will expand a lot when soaked, but not to walnut-size -- maybe from the size of a (very small) pea to the size of a marble, though. Anyway, there's probably more than a metaphorical grain of truth in what Renard says, given that he almost undoubtedly has a great deal more experience with the aether than Antimony, but she said herself that she had to help her mother pass on. I'm not terribly eager to believe that she was deceiving herself. Maybe there was enough of Surma left to give Antimony that bit of closure?
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 12, 2011 1:25:41 GMT
There was something mentioned a while ago by someone else about why Annie had to do the escorting of her mother. It's possible that the guides didn't come for Surma simply because they didn't want to. Big Bird head said none of them came for her. Not that they absolutely couldn't. Maybe they get something out of the whole soul escort thing? Like something left behind when the person passes on. Annie took it for herself so none of the guides cared. What's in it for them? I forget where it's mentioned, but it was mentioned on this board that all the dead end up in the same place anyway. Doesn't matter who takes them. Was this a tidbit from tom? I seem to remember.. ugh. Anyway, it could be a clue. Why do the guides care who takes who? Unless the one who takes the person gets whatever they leave behind when they die. Sorry to make you guys fact check for me [again], but I can hardly remember what day it is. Remembering the thousand different tidbits of this comic is impossible. Except that Reynardine recently gave the reason no Guides came for her: there was nothing left to take.So the two possibilities as I see it was either she didn't really take her mother to the Aether in place of the Guides or that the Guides were mistaken, just just as Reynardine is mistaken that their was nothing left. It is in my view very likely that the Guides were of the same mind as Reynardine on this issue. I am fully aware of what Reynard said. However, there is no way to know how accurate his view on things is. He's already been hugely mistaken, and his opinions are not word of god.
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Post by warrl on Jan 12, 2011 21:05:29 GMT
I am fully aware of what Reynard said. However, there is no way to know how accurate his view on things is. He's already been hugely mistaken, and his opinions are not word of god. Or even word of Coyote.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 12, 2011 23:18:31 GMT
I did say it around here somewhere. Everything is filtered through the perception and knowledge of the characters. There are no author avatar info dumps to reveal these things. I just don't think Annie escorting her mom would be symbolic. This comic loves being literal with these things. Down to even the stylized type images that should be symbolic.
Annie eating what was left of her mom despite clearly being shown escorting her would be symbolic.
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