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Post by Molly the Sleepless on Sept 27, 2010 20:11:02 GMT
This is more of a point of confusion than a wild speculation... but it sort of sounds as if Jeanne's spirit is speaking from Green Elf's point of view. "My heart was run through and left to die on the riverbed."OK, I can see how that *might* mean that Jeanne's heart was broken from seeing Green Elf die, and that the edge of the Annan Waters is the riverbed. Or: 'my heart' refers to Green Elf (since he's the one she loved) and that he died on the bottom of the river (which makes more sense as the riverbed). "The useless shell of my body was ensnared by the green light and discarded over time."Well... I really can't see how the green light interacted with Jeanne's body. It clearly hit Green Elf, and the previous page definitely looks like it ensnared him. And yes, Jeanne's body *could* have been 'discarded over time' simply because it had decayed, but that phrase makes a lot more sense for Green Elf's body, which would have been carried away by the river and eventually decomposed. Jeanne's skeleton and clothes are still in the position she died in, even after a bunch of generations. I don't have a clue why Green Elf would be speaking through Jeanne, unless... (a) his spirit... entered her body? (b) Jeanne and Green Elf were etherically linked (this could happen with something as basic as being in love- who knows when it comes to the ether), and so Jeanne experienced Green Elf's green-light-death, and so she describes it as if it was her own. Alternatively, maybe the green light/arrow *did* kill Jeanne, and we just haven't seen that part yet. Hmm... now that I look at the page again, Jeanne's body fading into a ghost at the top looks like it has a green tinge... or am I just seeing things? I have to disagree with Jeanne's suggestion that only her fury/anger/hate is left in her spirit. As we've seen in the last few pages, she has memories of good times with Green Elf - how could she remember them if she had only hate left? I guess those memories are fueling bitterness, but still, that's different than pure hate. This must be weird for Parley. One moment, she's watching a movie; a few moments later, she's getting this blast of etheric sadness-bitterness. Also, I wonder if this is the first time Jeanne (her ghost that is) has spoken since she died? Perhaps she is just speaking poetically or passionately. Lots of people do it and it occurs all the time in various books, and what not. 1. Elf boy could have been her heart and soul to her. She obviously didn't feel complete without him, and when he died she lost the will to live. She was bitter, and angry, and full of hatred, but without him she simply couldn't live anymore. He was her reason for carrying on, and when he died she laid down to die. 2. Ensnared by the green light could simply mean she trapped herself there, let her body rot away, and her spirit remained fueled by bitter hatred of the court and the forest, and all of that is because of the green light of the arrow that killed Elf boy.
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Post by Molly the Sleepless on Sept 27, 2010 20:16:14 GMT
Anyone else finds this insufficiently explained? Why does she become a sentinel instead of, I don't know, a ferrywoman guiding an arrow-proof roofed boat? To prevent further Gilliteans to be treated as pincushions like Danny? Because sentinel was her day job in the court? Is something she decides or it is a firmware Diego transferred to her etheric casket? I think it was because she felt so much hatred towards the curt and forest. Sure, some people would take their horrible experiences and use them to help others or make things better, but there are many who would just easily make everybody else as miserable as they are. She probably wants the court and forest to suffer for everything they did to her.
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Post by hifranc on Sept 27, 2010 20:17:44 GMT
[...] Biggest problem-- Jeanne appears to be in full possession of her memories and mental faculties, so after what the Court did to her, why is she defending it? With the information we've been given so far, this makes the exact opposite of sense. Granting Jeanne speech might have been a mistake. A mindless, indiscriminate ball of concentrated rage would be more plausible as a reliable defense system. I listen to a lot of news, current affairs, documentaries, etc. I understand why she is the way she is. The following is going to cover child soldiers and other things like that so may not want to read it. Lots of child soldiers are "recruited" by killing their parents in front of them (or worse). Sometimes they are forced to commit the deed themselves. Following that they experience a mixture of emotions: powerlessness, confusion, guilt, loss, fear, anger, rage, etc. The "army" doing the recruiting then harness those emotions to make them fight. Come to think of it I don't even think the magic has to do that much. If there was an arrangement between them to meet, and the court used that, then Jeanne probably blamed herself for her lover's death.[1] In a sick way, Diego was right, Jeanne was the best one suited for the task: - She loved someone enough to risk losing her position at the Court (one gets the impression that she was high enough in Court circles for the Governing people to all know her, personally).
- She was known to have a capacity to hate (note her interactions with Diego and his robots).
- Given the fact that she was on the verge of running away to the forest, her disappearance would be easy to explain to inquisitive people (especially as her rage was preventing anyone crossing the river).
In a way, Diego's offer would have saved her because, had she been willing to put love on hold for duty to the court, she would have lacked fire and their plan would not have been as effective (so there may have been more suitable candidates). However, I can't shake the suspicion that Diego delibrately arranged things that way so that he could tell himself that his offer was genuine. [1] Guilt is common in survivors of disasters beyond a person's control. Imagine if you had some control over events (it doesn't have to be much), then your guilt would be much more. After all, she trusted their go between
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Post by evilanagram on Sept 27, 2010 20:20:05 GMT
I don't think Parley's heart is glowing because she's in love. I mean, is that supposed to be a normal thing? Do all people in love have big glowing hearts? If not, then why does Parley's glow down there? She's in her etheric form, so symbolism isn't that strange. After all, there are very few times when anyone, in love or not, walks around with a glowing heart in their chest. The fact that it's symbolic of love seems pretty obvious since roughly half of her involvement in the plot relates to her feelings for Smitty in some way. Also, her love for Smitface isn't exactly the truest love ever. Neither of them are open about it or want to address it. And they're both still in high school for Pete's sake. I think it's a bit early to say what they have is all that amazingly pure. It might not be open, but they definitely have the desire to address it. And who says that only "true" love can have a large effect on a person? Even an adolescent crush can dramatically change a person's behavior and outlook, and Parley seems quite smitten. - Annie's first encounter with Jeanne was physical. Not really. Annie can see ghosts, so she could see Jeanne, and Jeanne's sword swipe only left an aetheric cut. This raises the question of how useful a guardian is whose sword only deals aetheric damage. I'm willing to bet that if Jeanne stabs your soul in the chest with her ghost-sword, you'll die.
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 27, 2010 20:25:52 GMT
And yet, Kat crossed the river (twice!) with zero interference from Jeanne. So we're being given conflicting information.
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Post by hifranc on Sept 27, 2010 20:31:35 GMT
I don't know what will happen but what I hope happens is something like this:
Parley: No, I came to see if Annie was in trouble. Annie: I came here to help you. If Parley offends you, I'll get her to go but I'll stay. AA [To Parley] Go get, Kat. Ask her to bring the witness with her.
or, from point AA, a sequence showing what Kat and Annie discovered.
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Post by jayne on Sept 27, 2010 20:47:15 GMT
And yet, Kat crossed the river (twice!) with zero interference from Jeanne. So we're being given conflicting information. Well, Coyote said nothing could cross... but the people who became birds flew across... so I suppose Coyote means no one could cross without flying. After they had the bridge, they could cross by walking. Jeanne didn't interfere with those on the bridge either. Maybe it has to do with lights. Jeanne didn't attack until the fire burned out.
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Post by shouqi on Sept 27, 2010 20:52:06 GMT
I wonder if Tom has the balls to kill off Parley?
Probably not, but it's still an intriguing thought. It'd put a real message out that the etherium isn't something with which you can trifle irresponsibly.
EDIT: not a Jack story, but he could play a minor role in seeing what's actually happening vice Smitty and Kat watching empty bodies. Although I'm sure that in a page or two that will work itself out.
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 27, 2010 22:04:43 GMT
I wonder if Tom has the balls to kill off Parley? Probably not, but it's still an intriguing thought. It'd put a real message out that the etherium isn't something with which you can trifle irresponsibly. If anything happens to Parley, Annie's looking at expulsion at the very least. I can't even imagine her punishment if Parley were to actually die here, but it would almost have to involve some sort of incarceration or institutionalization. She's fresh out of a million detentions from her (mis)handling of events in Spring Heeled, and this is very next adventure, confronting a known-hostile etheric being once again off of school grounds? She'd better tie up this whole situation cleanly, put it in a box with a nice bow on it. The Court has been exceptionally lenient with her up until this point...
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Post by todd on Sept 27, 2010 22:41:36 GMT
When Shakespeare needed a villain, he just created one. Don John was a plain-dealing villain, without much explanation as to why. You can guess why but Shakespeare never explained. I remember my college English teacher saying that Don John was just a plot device to get the story to work, and that the real threat was Claudio's insecurity about Hero. But he'd look like too much of a jerk (some of the audience probably see him as enough of a jerk as it is) unless given mitigating circumstances into jilting her, so Don John and his scheme to frame Hero have to get in to make Claudio a simple dupe.
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Post by todd on Sept 27, 2010 22:47:32 GMT
If anything happens to Parley, Annie's looking at expulsion at the very least. I can't even imagine her punishment if Parley were to actually die here, but it would almost have to involve some sort of incarceration or institutionalization. She's fresh out of a million detentions from her (mis)handling of events in Spring Heeled, and this is very next adventure, confronting a known-hostile etheric being once again off of school grounds? Of course, the problem with expulsion is that if she takes Reynardine with her, the Court can't keep an eye on him any more, and if they take Reynardine away from her before expelling him, then he'd be able to escape his doll body. (Unless, of course, they tried trapping Reynardine again, and then expelling Annie while he's in that state - followed by destroying the doll body before he can get loose, hoping that he'd die with it.)
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Post by todd on Sept 27, 2010 23:35:42 GMT
As a side-thought - Parley's death might lead to even bigger troubles; the Court might decide that the location is too dangerous for schoolchildren, and close down the school, planning to found a new court outside the Court grounds in some other part of Britain, to only bring the students to the Court after they've graduated. Or at the least, put the school under a maximum security lockdown, with the students under constant watch - even on week-ends - so that they can't get into any more adventures. (Which would bring the comic to an abrupt end - or else, all the stories afterwards would have to be Spacemonaut simulations, recreationals, and high school drama.)
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Post by warrl on Sept 27, 2010 23:41:02 GMT
I don't think Parley's heart is glowing because she's in love. I mean, is that supposed to be a normal thing? Do all people in love have big glowing hearts? If not, then why does Parley's glow down there? I don't think it's "love" per se that is setting Jeanne off... I think it's intense romantic/sexual passion. Which often is accompanied by love, and even more often mistaken for love - particularly by characters who are Parley's age.
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Post by christopher on Sept 28, 2010 0:41:54 GMT
Hm... She "speaks" mental by Parley and she really threatens by her sword only to Parley... But why? Any ideas? Because she loves Smitty. She may or may not admit this to herself, but it's been lead up to it pretty obviously. Even to the point that she teleports TO HIM whenever something vaguely romantic happens.
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mechagai
New Member
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Post by mechagai on Sept 28, 2010 0:54:46 GMT
Maybe it has to do with lights. Jeanne didn't attack until the fire burned out. I concur with this idea. Jeanne is most certainly afraid of light. At the very least, she's afraid of it because the light, or any flame, reminds her of her lost love. It's funny that since the forest creatures, which primarily consist of Coyote's glass-eye creatures, can't cross without shade, then they're at the mercy (or lack thereof) of Jeanne, and the only time that Jeanne wouldn't attack, which is high noon, they can't cross because of the lack of shade. That's genius.
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Post by Hyru Wachai on Sept 28, 2010 0:57:59 GMT
"What remained of my spirit, my anger, my hate, was forged, white hot, into the sentinel of these waters."
This reminds me a lot of how AI's were created in Red vs Blue. The Alpha, effectively a human mind, was tortured until it fragmented into "purified, compartmentalized emotion". One of these, Omega, was Alpha's rage.
Is it more probable that Jeanne is something like Omega, or that she is just overwhelmed by emotion at the moment?
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Post by evilanagram on Sept 28, 2010 2:31:36 GMT
I wonder if Tom has the balls to kill off Parley? Probably not, but it's still an intriguing thought. It'd put a real message out that the etherium isn't something with which you can trifle irresponsibly. I don't think it's a question of balls so much as a question of what it would accomplish. Tom has laid down the foundation for a great side story with Parley, but it hasn't really gone anywhere yet. Killing off Parley here would be a cheap way to make a statement that would make all the time he's dedicated to building her character up to this point utterly useless. It would be a hack move.
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Post by jayne on Sept 28, 2010 12:01:59 GMT
This might be why Jeanne nicked Annie in etheric form. She didn't actually cross the river, she traveled etherically, like Annie is doing now.
If so, she wouldn't have been able to harm Kat since she didn't have an etheric form.
It's early, does this make sense?
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Post by chelonianmonk on Sept 28, 2010 12:59:18 GMT
This might be why Jeanne nicked Annie in etheric form. She didn't actually cross the river, she traveled etherically, like Annie is doing now. If so, she wouldn't have been able to harm Kat since she didn't have an etheric form. It's early, does this make sense? Doesn't everything have an etheric form? (even if it's gray) I'm wondering if Jeanne was created not to stop forest creatures from coming to the court, but court people from leaving it. After all, she doesn't have any reason to be bitter at the forest. edit: except for Coyote, I guess
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Post by evilanagram on Sept 28, 2010 13:13:35 GMT
This might be why Jeanne nicked Annie in etheric form. She didn't actually cross the river, she traveled etherically, like Annie is doing now. If so, she wouldn't have been able to harm Kat since she didn't have an etheric form. It's early, does this make sense? Doesn't everything have an etheric form? (even if it's gray) I'm wondering if Jeanne was created not to stop forest creatures from coming to the court, but court people from leaving it. After all, she doesn't have any reason to be bitter at the forest. edit: except for Coyote, I guess Regardless of whether or not we see a reason for her to be bitter at the people of the forest, Jeanne has successfully kept them from crossing.
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 28, 2010 14:21:03 GMT
This might be why Jeanne nicked Annie in etheric form. She didn't actually cross the river, she traveled etherically, like Annie is doing now. If so, she wouldn't have been able to harm Kat since she didn't have an etheric form. It's early, does this make sense? No, it doesn't make sense. Jeanne is a ghost-- she does everything etherically.
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Post by jayne on Sept 28, 2010 15:35:21 GMT
This might be why Jeanne nicked Annie in etheric form. She didn't actually cross the river, she traveled etherically, like Annie is doing now. If so, she wouldn't have been able to harm Kat since she didn't have an etheric form. It's early, does this make sense? No, it doesn't make sense. Jeanne is a ghost-- she does everything etherically. Annie could see ghosts as a child before she learned how to use her blinker stone. Whatever form Annie is right now, she's not a ghost. Jeanne is a ghost but she is able to do whatever it is that Annie is doing right now. Its a human in etheric form and a ghost in etheric form as opposed to normal ghost form. Its subtly different.
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 28, 2010 15:46:56 GMT
No, it doesn't make sense. Jeanne is a ghost-- she does everything etherically. Annie could see ghosts as a child before she learned how to use her blinker stone. Whatever form Annie is right now, she's not a ghost. Jeanne is a ghost but she is able to do whatever it is that Annie is doing right now. Its a human in etheric form and a ghost in etheric form as opposed to normal ghost form. Its subtly different. Hm...I'm not so sure. First, Anja suggested that a blinker stone isn't necessary at all, it's just a focus. Second, Mort is a ghost, and Jones called him a being 'of the etherium.' Third, Annie asked Ketrak and Muut to show themselves to Kat. Together, I think this means that just as (some) material beings can project their consciousness onto the ethereal plane, (some) ethereal beings can project their physicality onto the material plane. That's the balance I see forming, anyway - those of the physical realm have a physical presence on the etheric plane, but no consciousness without effort - while etheric beings appear to have an easier time projecting consciousness to the physical realm, but not necessarily a physical presence (whitelegs, for instance).
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Post by jayne on Sept 28, 2010 16:03:29 GMT
Annie could see ghosts as a child before she learned how to use her blinker stone. Whatever form Annie is right now, she's not a ghost. Jeanne is a ghost but she is able to do whatever it is that Annie is doing right now. Its a human in etheric form and a ghost in etheric form as opposed to normal ghost form. Its subtly different. Hm...I'm not so sure. First, Anja suggested that a blinker stone isn't necessary at all, it's just a focus. Second, Mort is a ghost, and Jones called him a being 'of the etherium.' Third, Annie asked Ketrak and Muut to show themselves to Kat. Together, I think this means that just as (some) material beings can project their consciousness onto the ethereal plane, (some) ethereal beings can project their physicality onto the material plane. That's the balance I see forming, anyway - those of the physical realm have a physical presence on the etheric plane, but no consciousness without effort - while etheric beings appear to have an easier time projecting consciousness to the physical realm, but not necessarily a physical presence (whitelegs, for instance). We're on the same page... for Jeanne to kill someone she'd have to project her presence into the physical realm to do them physical harm. In Annie's case, she didn't cause any physical harm so perhaps Jeanne didn't feel the need to project her presence. It would explain the nick, "Can I cut you like this? Oh yes, I can..." then she goes in for the kill.
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Post by theweatherman on Sept 28, 2010 18:47:32 GMT
Wow, Jeanne, you can slice Annie's face, destroy a bunch of innocent robots in a rage and might be about to kill a important character, but calling her a "Coddled child"... bit mean?
So who thinks Smitty will jump in to save the day, or Kat will do something so awesome that Jeanne's head will explode in the presence of kat's almighty epic awesomeness of win.
All in all, whether Jeanne is a super-ghost or has reached Ghost Level 2, she's still now just a threat, and needs to be dealt with quickly.
*also Kat rocks, alot, seriously.
Edit: And who here thinks Kat will simply jump down and punch Jeanne? After all she's had experience.
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 28, 2010 19:13:25 GMT
Edit: And who here thinks Kat will simply jump down and punch Jeanne? Nobody.
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Post by jayne on Sept 28, 2010 19:29:20 GMT
Wow, Jeanne, you can slice Annie's face, destroy a bunch of innocent robots in a rage and might be about to kill a important character, but calling her a "Coddled child"... bit mean? So who thinks Smitty will jump in to save the day, or Kat will do something so awesome that Jeanne's head will explode in the presence of kat's almighty epic awesomeness of win. All in all, whether Jeanne is a super-ghost or has reached Ghost Level 2, she's still now just a threat, and needs to be dealt with quickly. *also Kat rocks, alot, seriously. Edit: And who here thinks Kat will simply jump down and punch Jeanne? After all she's had experience. I forgot about the robots!! Maybe they were more like figurine robots and never felt the need to call her "Mommy"
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Post by theweatherman on Sept 28, 2010 19:29:32 GMT
Edit: And who here thinks Kat will simply jump down and punch Jeanne? Nobody. It was a joke but ok.
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Post by mephysto on Sept 28, 2010 19:38:56 GMT
I wonder if Tom has the balls to kill off Parley? Probably not, but it's still an intriguing thought. It'd put a real message out that the etherium isn't something with which you can trifle irresponsibly. If anything happens to Parley, Annie's looking at expulsion at the very least. I can't even imagine her punishment if Parley were to actually die here, but it would almost have to involve some sort of incarceration or institutionalization. She's fresh out of a million detentions from her (mis)handling of events in Spring Heeled, and this is very next adventure, confronting a known-hostile etheric being once again off of school grounds? She'd better tie up this whole situation cleanly, put it in a box with a nice bow on it. The Court has been exceptionally lenient with her up until this point... If anything happens to Parley, i'm off. And i'm not going to be the only one, well, at least for a while...
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Sept 28, 2010 19:47:42 GMT
Tom certainly has the, uh, balls to kill off Parley if he believes it to be good for the story. I'd bet that isn't going to happen right now, though.
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