|
|
Post by pyradonis on Aug 3, 2017 16:18:16 GMT
In the case of the disruptor, I don't think it's a matter of learning. The robots Donald deactivated were court robots, while the ones Kat failed to disrupt were Seraphs. I guess the intention was exactly to imply their mechanisms are different from regular robots. Indeed, Kat later learns of the Seraphs' impossible coding and that they're built almost like golems. The "regular" simpler robots were actually build by the Seraphs themselves, because even them couldn't repair Diego's designs are built like golems, not only the old Seraphs. And all robots have the code that no human should be able to read. |
|
|
|
Post by hp on Aug 3, 2017 17:17:27 GMT
In the case of the disruptor, I don't think it's a matter of learning. The robots Donald deactivated were court robots, while the ones Kat failed to disrupt were Seraphs. I guess the intention was exactly to imply their mechanisms are different from regular robots. Indeed, Kat later learns of the Seraphs' impossible coding and that they're built almost like golems. The "regular" simpler robots were actually build by the Seraphs themselves, because even them couldn't repair Diego's designs are built like golems, not only the old Seraphs. And all robots have the code that no human should be able to read. Sorry, I mistakenly used "seraph" to mean all the robots built by Diego (in contrast with the "modern" robots). Anyway. There are "old" robots built by Diego, which have the ineffable designs, power sources and programming, are all covered in runes and look like magic to Kat (though Anja has already compared magic to programming). Among those robots he have the Seraphs, who couldn't be switched off by Kat's disruptor. And there are also "modern" robots, created by the "old" ones as simpler versions of Diego's designs after his death (couldn't find the page where that is said). Those have the regular CPUs and such. Among them, we have the B-models (which control student traffic) and were switched of by Mr Donlan's disruptor. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Aug 3, 2017 19:13:23 GMT
Ah, that clears it up.  However, I both have trouble believing that the Seraphs have either built-in disruptor protection or upgraded to it - and still have big red buttons on their heads to deactivate them.  |
|
|
|
Post by hp on Aug 3, 2017 21:50:22 GMT
However, I both have trouble believing that the Seraphs have either built-in disruptor protection or upgraded to it - and still have big red buttons on their heads to deactivate them. In my understanding, Mr. Donlan's disruptor was created for the "regular" Court robots — the simpler and later ones designed by the old robots. It doesn't work in the Seraphs not due to any upgrade, but because their design is a more complex one, created by Diego. Kat didn't know that at the moment, that's why she got mystified (as torontoregonian puts it) because the disruptor didn't work. (When Anja talks to Kat about the old robots in the workshop's dungeon, she says they never got to make them work... Which means they knew they existed but couldn't figure their mechanism) As for the buttons on the Seraphs' heads... If I recall correctly, the old robots stated or implied that their own designs and SO are beyond their understanding. Which is why they had to create simpler models they could repair, after Diego's death. So I guess the red buttons were added by Diego himself. The robots' "upgrade" to stop Annie from pushing the button are simply wearing construction helmets, which is not an actual change in design (but it really shows they are capable of learning and changing their behaviour according to experience) |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Aug 7, 2017 14:37:17 GMT
As for the buttons on the Seraphs' heads... If I recall correctly, the old robots stated or implied that their own designs and SO are beyond their understanding. Which is why they had to create simpler models they could repair, after Diego's death. So I guess the red buttons were added by Diego himself. I guess you meant to write "the red buttons were not added by Diego himself"? The S1 model does not have one.It has a CPU slot, though, which is pretty peculiar when you think that this type of integrated circuit was designed in the 20th century.  |
|
|
|
Post by hp on Aug 8, 2017 21:00:22 GMT
As for the buttons on the Seraphs' heads... If I recall correctly, the old robots stated or implied that their own designs and SO are beyond their understanding. Which is why they had to create simpler models they could repair, after Diego's death. So I guess the red buttons were added by Diego himself. I guess you meant to write "the red buttons were not added by Diego himself"? The S1 model does not have one.It has a CPU slot, though, which is pretty peculiar when you think that this type of integrated circuit was designed in the 20th century. Oh. Actually, I missed that S1 didn't have a button. Despite that, the red buttons might have been added by Diego on later models... What makes me think that is, if the button was added by the robots themselves after Diego's death, then their "countermeasure" to Annie knowing their "weakness"could be simply designing a new head without it instead of using helmets? The way they called the button "their weaness" also suggested some kind of helplessness in regard to it. Then again, maybe they ARE robot-designed models and CAN have the button removed, but for some reason decided against it (even if it's for some weird robot reasoning, or simply Tom deciding to make a gag, LAUGHING ON LINE). Or maybe it is some oversight by Tom while establishing the robot generations. |
|
|
|
Post by hp on Aug 8, 2017 21:07:10 GMT
It has a CPU slot, though, which is pretty peculiar when you think that this type of integrated circuit was designed in the 20th century. BTW, your mention of the CPU interface to the "etherial" technology vs. the robots' point about their own designs being over their heads got me wondering. Are those flashbacks set within some time period in canon? The characters look medieval or modern, judging from their weapons and clothes (though Eglamore and Parley still fight with swords in the current time) . But Diego's work seems pretty advanced for that, even if it's kinda steampunk, with a pinch of magic and the robots are said to be more like golems. |
|
|
|
Post by Druplesnubb on Aug 9, 2017 10:41:51 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Aug 9, 2017 14:14:34 GMT
Dont you mean Annie and robot on the bridge? |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Aug 9, 2017 14:41:19 GMT
I guess you meant to write "the red buttons were not added by Diego himself"? The S1 model does not have one.It has a CPU slot, though, which is pretty peculiar when you think that this type of integrated circuit was designed in the 20th century. Oh. Actually, I missed that S1 didn't have a button. Despite that, the red buttons might have been added by Diego on later models... What makes me think that is, if the button was added by the robots themselves after Diego's death, then their "countermeasure" to Annie knowing their "weakness"could be simply designing a new head without it instead of using helmets? The way they called the button "their weaness" also suggested some kind of helplessness in regard to it. Then again, maybe they ARE robot-designed models and CAN have the button removed, but for some reason decided against it (even if it's for some weird robot reasoning, or simply Tom deciding to make a gag, LAUGHING ON LINE). Or maybe it is some oversight by Tom while establishing the robot generations. My theory for now: Diego did not add the buttons, the original robots did when they constructed their offspring, since they were not able to copy Diego's design anyway (because they lack an Etheric sense?). Why do only the S-models have the obvious button? Because they still use the same models that were designed by the original robots. The revived old robot is not familiar with the designs used by the modern robots, so I interpret it as the robots having refined and changed their designs over the robot generations. But the S-models have always been somewhat outside of robot society, so I think their models were not overhauled and modernized as often as those of the other robots. Hence they still have their buttons, which have been removed in the other robot series. |
|
|
|
Post by fia on Aug 9, 2017 22:45:10 GMT
Call me an idiot... But I just noticed that Annie has not worn makeup a SINGLE TIME since Tony came back, and indeed the most recent page she is shown with makeup on is on page 1559, which is a flashback to this page (1488), the last time Annie wore makeup. I can't believe it didn't cross my mind – some part of my brain must have drawn in the face-paints for me, on the assumption that once she got Rey back, started wearing more colorful clothes again, growing her hair back, and started going to the forest again Annie was fully en route to almost complete return to the status quo. But no!!! We're on page 1868 and I just realized. I guess it was seeing Surma and comparing her to Annie and... anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Aug 14, 2017 14:23:28 GMT
Seems like there is a full Graveyard of Robotic Martyrs, not only one! When the Robotic Revolution reaches its peak, will Kat be charged with multiple robo-cide ? |
|
|
|
Post by mturtle7 on Aug 15, 2017 4:52:26 GMT
Seems like there is a full Graveyard of Robotic Martyrs, not only one! When the Robotic Revolution reaches its peak, will Kat be charged with multiple robo-cide ? On the contrary, her actions will simply prove the holiness and righteousness of mass robo-sacrifice in the name of science. |
|
|
|
Post by faiiry on Aug 15, 2017 12:44:02 GMT
Call me an idiot... But I just noticed that Annie has not worn makeup a SINGLE TIME since Tony came back, Her father has unofficially banned her from wearing it. I mean, he did say makeup is banned from HIS classroom, and Annie isn't in his classroom anymore strictly speaking, but I'd bet "my classroom" also means "if you're my daughter" as well. I'm not so certain if he made her wear ugly lumpy clothing as well, or if that was self-punishment. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Aug 15, 2017 16:58:23 GMT
Well, I always thought she looked better without makeup, so maybe she just compensated by wearing that hospital dress. |
|
|
|
Post by dramastix on Aug 18, 2017 2:16:54 GMT
I don't think I ever registered that Jack was referring to the boat trip in Spring Heeled on this page. I thought he meant he'd done the cruise ship thing once before. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Aug 23, 2017 5:59:27 GMT
Her father has unofficially banned her from wearing it ... I'd bet "my classroom" also means "if you're my daughter" as well. I'm not so sure, you know... Initially yes, but I think it has more to do with the fact that via the blinker stone Annie saw Tony tell Donny that seeing her look so much like Surma almost made him "lose his mind". She's clearly still trying to figure her father out, but she doesn't want to cause him pain. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Aug 24, 2017 6:08:07 GMT
The central tragedy of Annie and Tony at this stage (via some really nifty storytelling) is that the overriding factor standing in the way of the familial relationship they both crave is their shared tendency to take responsibility almost reflexively - and thus blame themselves first and foremost - when things go wrong...
Also, I'm seeing more of a temperamental similarity between Eglamore and Ysengrin - both tend to think in terms of absolutes, and both have made statements which with hindsight could be considered questionable... Also, both have been granted increases in physical strength and power at the expense of their emotional well-being.
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Sept 1, 2017 17:42:55 GMT
I'm curious, what makes you think, James' emotional well-being has been effected by his training? Parley does not seem to suffer any effects of this kind. Except if you want to blame Surma falling in love with Tony solely on James' training?
|
|
|
|
Post by mturtle7 on Sept 5, 2017 20:30:57 GMT
Lots of thoughts about the new page, but I'm especially starting to reinterpret this scene from "Ties". I never thought about it before, but Surma specifically says that ANJA should have "zapped" Hyland, even though it was Surma (along with James) who actually started the fight with him. Like a lot of people, I think I always assumed that Surma had always been at least as skilled as Annie with her powers (if not more), but this seems to have been a very early sign that she was nowhere near as skilled as Anja. |
|
|
|
Post by torontoregonian on Sept 6, 2017 12:34:52 GMT
Lots of thoughts about the new page, but I'm especially starting to reinterpret this scene from "Ties". I never thought about it before, but Surma specifically says that ANJA should have "zapped" Hyland, even though it was Surma (along with James) who actually started the fight with him. Like a lot of people, I think I always assumed that Surma had always been at least as skilled as Annie with her powers (if not more), but this seems to have been a very early sign that she was nowhere near as skilled as Anja. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Sept 6, 2017 12:53:46 GMT
Lots of thoughts about the new page, but I'm especially starting to reinterpret this scene from "Ties". I never thought about it before, but Surma specifically says that ANJA should have "zapped" Hyland, even though it was Surma (along with James) who actually started the fight with him. Like a lot of people, I think I always assumed that Surma had always been at least as skilled as Annie with her powers (if not more), but this seems to have been a very early sign that she was nowhere near as skilled as Anja. Huh. I thought Surma was referring to scientific/mechanical/robotics skills, since they were talking about the old robots on this page. |
|
|
|
Post by Druplesnubb on Sept 8, 2017 11:54:04 GMT
Huh. I thought Surma was referring to scientific/mechanical/robotics skills, since they were talking about the old robots on this page. Yup, that's exactly what it is. |
|
|
|
Post by mturtle7 on Sept 8, 2017 20:06:27 GMT
Huh. I thought Surma was referring to scientific/mechanical/robotics skills, since they were talking about the old robots on this page. It's a really damn awesome parallel, though. Wish I had noticed it! |
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Oct 11, 2017 3:53:09 GMT
|
|
ST13R
Full Member
Quiet little mouse
Posts: 171
|
Post by ST13R on Oct 11, 2017 6:27:38 GMT
Spinach 4 BeanheadI still have no clue what it refers to though. When GreenGuy showed up I thought it might be cute names Jeanne and GG had thought up for eachother, since, green and stuff* There's also an S&B on Annie's desk in the earlier chapters, and on a tree when she sees Ketrak. /*Though that'd mean that the dorms and tables haven't changed for ages...? //Oh my, what if there'll be some weird food-incident happening between Surma and Tony D: ? /// I should go back to the wild spec thread now...
|
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Oct 12, 2017 17:49:23 GMT
Spinach 4 BeanheadI still have no clue what it refers to though. When GreenGuy showed up I thought it might be cute names Jeanne and GG had thought up for eachother, since, green and stuff* There's also an S&B on Annie's desk in the earlier chapters, and on a tree when she sees Ketrak. /*Though that'd mean that the dorms and tables haven't changed for ages...? //Oh my, what if there'll be some weird food-incident happening between Surma and Tony D: ? /// I should go back to the wild spec thread now... Ahaha, intriguing! I was aware of the S&B on the tree but not the others. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Oct 12, 2017 20:45:14 GMT
I'm curious, what makes you think, James' emotional well-being has been effected by his training? Parley does not seem to suffer any effects of this kind. Except if you want to blame Surma falling in love with Tony solely on James' training? Sorry I missed this - how rude of me! I don't think it has to be the "sole" reason, but we've seen in a couple of flashbacks that Surma was starting to voice frustration at Sir Jimmy always being away training. So I reckon in that sense it was definitely a contributing factor to Surma's beginning to have doubts as to whether he was right for her. But over and above that he seems to have taken the whole "Knight Protector" mentality to heart (considerably more than Parley has thus far), and - even if inadvertently - Surma's own growth and development seems to have taken a back seat as a result. This isn't Sir Jimmy's fault as such, but by the flashback at the end of "S1", Surma seems to be aware that their relationship dynamic is allowing her to "coast", and she's starting to chafe at the idea. But the main thing that makes me think Sir Jimmy's emotional well-being has been negatively affected is what happened in the aftermath. We've seen a flashback in which he has returned from training to find that Surma has left him for Tony (consequently finding solace with Jones), and you can almost feel that he wants to point out the unfairness of making himself a *literal* "Knight In Shining Armour" apparently not being enough for Surma to stay with him. Assuming the "old gang" are around 18-19 at the time, that kind of incredulousness is understandable. The problem is that it *still* seems to be eating at him the best part of two decades later; he never got over Surma in the intervening years and in that sense he hasn't grown - he's been in a kind of emotional stasis for far longer than is healthy. Come to think of it, the fact that Sir Jimmy seems to have remained intimate with Jones (unchangingness personified) occasionally is arguably a really clever bit of symbolism on Tom's part! |
|
|
|
Post by theonethatgotaway on Oct 13, 2017 8:07:30 GMT
Call me an idiot... But I just noticed that Annie has not worn makeup a SINGLE TIME since Tony came back, ... Aaaaand we just found out Tony finds make-up sexy, so of course he wouldn't want his daughter to wear it! |
|
|
|
Post by wombat on Oct 18, 2017 12:14:04 GMT
On reread, I noticed that chapter 47 still makes me freaking emotional.
So that's cool.
|
|
