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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2022 7:04:17 GMT
Of course there were aliens. But real aliens? With the ether working as it does, who can say? The answer to this and other probing questions... remains to be seen? |
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Post by Isildur on Aug 24, 2022 7:12:46 GMT
From the 2525 thread: Is that a "gray" alien at the left edge of panel 2? I guess they could count as mythical creatures, of sorts.  |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 24, 2022 7:15:41 GMT
If this concept extends beyond traditional mythology and folklore into stuff like science-fiction and aliens, then Batman could be real, too. |
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Post by madjack on Aug 24, 2022 7:18:31 GMT
No wonder the Court dress like the Men in Black.
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Post by novia on Aug 24, 2022 7:19:12 GMT
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Post by jda on Aug 24, 2022 7:52:54 GMT
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caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by caber on Aug 24, 2022 8:00:40 GMT
I hope we get to see Basil again sometime, though I'd settle for knowing if he's doing alright. |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 24, 2022 8:27:28 GMT
Human imagination
What a concept!
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Post by speedwell on Aug 24, 2022 8:29:04 GMT
I had a fleeting thought that Aata might have been obliquely describing his own origin story.
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Post by mordekai on Aug 24, 2022 8:45:04 GMT
So, there are aliens, but these aliens are in fact etheric creatures created by human mind, no different to fairies or deities...?
If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they even notice the difference?.
Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?.
What if their whole universe is an etheric creation, brought up by the minds of a previous universe?
I sort of understand why the Ether scares them; these thoughts kinda bring existential dread... but they are still selfish assholes...
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Post by basser on Aug 24, 2022 9:26:53 GMT
A bodhisattva is explaining how a pair of eldritch space crabs emerged from the nebulous collective of human imagination to help build a trans-dimensional magic ocean and pull a few shifts overseeing student dorms.
Kat: gosh golly aliens
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
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Post by heranje on Aug 24, 2022 9:36:18 GMT
So, there are aliens, but these aliens are in fact etheric creatures created by human mind, no different to fairies or deities...? If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they ever notice the difference?. Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?. What if their whole universe is an etheric creation, brought up by the minds of a previous universe? I sort of understand why the Ether scares them, but they are still selfish assholes... Relatedly, I'm beginning to wonder how they can be sure their Omega Device is actually 'just' a very powerful machine, and not something which has been powered by generations of Court folks' belief in it or at least in what it represents. I suppose we don't have confirmation that they plan to bring it along to the new world, but I've been assuming they do because the whole plan to leave seems partially motivated by removing etheric interference from its prediction engine. Then again, Omega also seems to rely on etheric sources to function (re: the scene where they pull ether from that lake), so maybe not. |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
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Post by heranje on Aug 24, 2022 9:39:15 GMT
If this concept extends beyond traditional mythology and folklore into stuff like science-fiction and aliens, then Batman could be real, too. I think there's an argument that aliens bridge the gap between science fiction and folklore though, what with all the people that are fully convinced of the reality of things like alien abduction, crop circles, "aliens created the pyramids", and suchlike. Not sure if there are enough people who actually believe in Batman's existence to give him etheric form. |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 24, 2022 10:21:09 GMT
If this concept extends beyond traditional mythology and folklore into stuff like science-fiction and aliens, then Batman could be real, too. I think there's an argument that aliens bridge the gap between science fiction and folklore though, what with all the people that are fully convinced of the reality of things like alien abduction, crop circles, "aliens created the pyramids", and suchlike. Not sure if there are enough people who actually believe in Batman's existence to give him etheric form. Yep. I have a book about European fairies that include medieval demons and present day aliens among the fey folk, arguing that these are just updates of the old myths.
Sort of the Celtic Alp-luachra becomes a Christian Incubus, who becomes a Grey Alien. Same tale about a bedroom visitor doing terrifying stuff to people at night, adapting to the culture of the time...
The Vanishing Hitchhiker is modern version of an ancient myth too, from ancient fairy to medieval ghost to modern ghost.
Cattle mutilation is another myth that is constantly updated, from monsters to vampires to witches to aliens to "mysterious helicopters" to Chupacabras...
Rain-stealing airplanes is another myth that has been updated, from evil witches or demons stealing the rain (or the opposite, causing hailstorms and floods) to evil government conspiracies...
Basically, every modern urban legend about aliens and similar stuff is just an old myth updated...
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Post by rafk on Aug 24, 2022 10:32:12 GMT
Any sufficiently advanced life form is indistinguishable from an alien.
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Post by yellowb on Aug 24, 2022 11:04:46 GMT
From the 2525 thread: Is that a "gray" alien at the left edge of panel 2? I guess they could count as mythical creatures, of sorts. It seems weird now that this didn't draw more attention. |
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Post by Bo No Bo on Aug 24, 2022 11:43:43 GMT
Wow, I can't believe the Ether knew I wanted to meet SPACE LOBSTERS! Incredible! Thanks, Ether!
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Post by davidm on Aug 24, 2022 12:14:18 GMT
If this concept extends beyond traditional mythology and folklore into stuff like science-fiction and aliens, then Batman could be real, too. "Batboy picks Bigfoot for his 2020 running mate" - weekly world news |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 24, 2022 12:37:18 GMT
I think there's an argument that aliens bridge the gap between science fiction and folklore though, what with all the people that are fully convinced of the reality of things like alien abduction, crop circles, "aliens created the pyramids", and suchlike. Not sure if there are enough people who actually believe in Batman's existence to give him etheric form. Yep. I have a book about European fairies that include medieval demons and present day aliens among the fey folk, arguing that these are just updates of the old myths.
Sort of the Celtic Alp-luachra becomes a Christian Incubus, who becomes a Grey Alien. Same tale about a bedroom visitor doing terrifying stuff to people at night, adapting to the culture of the time...
The Vanishing Hitchhiker is modern version of an ancient myth too, from ancient fairy to medieval ghost to modern ghost.
Cattle mutilation is another myth that is constantly updated, from monsters to vampires to witches to aliens to "mysterious helicopters" to Chupacabras...
Rain-stealing airplanes is another myth that has been updated, from evil witches or demons stealing the rain (or the opposite, causing hailstorms and floods) to evil government conspiracies...
Basically, every modern urban legend about aliens and similar stuff is just an old myth updated...
Okay, now I'm really worried. That means if those conspiracy theories stick around long enough, eventually all the Earth's leaders will pull off their masks and reveal their lizard faces.  |
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Post by Per on Aug 24, 2022 12:40:51 GMT
If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they even notice the difference?. They will have old stories about humanlike aliens and be like, "Hi, it's kinda our fault you retro-exist. Have you by any chance created any others in turn" |
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Post by pylgrimm on Aug 24, 2022 13:35:57 GMT
I think there's an argument that aliens bridge the gap between science fiction and folklore though, what with all the people that are fully convinced of the reality of things like alien abduction, crop circles, "aliens created the pyramids", and suchlike. Not sure if there are enough people who actually believe in Batman's existence to give him etheric form. Yep. I have a book about European fairies that include medieval demons and present day aliens among the fey folk, arguing that these are just updates of the old myths.
Sort of the Celtic Alp-luachra becomes a Christian Incubus, who becomes a Grey Alien. Same tale about a bedroom visitor doing terrifying stuff to people at night, adapting to the culture of the time...
The Vanishing Hitchhiker is modern version of an ancient myth too, from ancient fairy to medieval ghost to modern ghost.
Cattle mutilation is another myth that is constantly updated, from monsters to vampires to witches to aliens to "mysterious helicopters" to Chupacabras...
Rain-stealing airplanes is another myth that has been updated, from evil witches or demons stealing the rain (or the opposite, causing hailstorms and floods) to evil government conspiracies...
Basically, every modern urban legend about aliens and similar stuff is just an old myth updated...
If you think about it, fae and many other mythical creatures are literally otherworldy creatures. It's just that we didn't know much about astronomy back then or dreamed that space was traversable. So our "aliens" came from Faery, or from Atlantis, the Underworld, the land of spirits, the land of the dead, etc. We've been dreaming of other worlds likely since before we had a word for "world". |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 24, 2022 13:39:38 GMT
That couple is on the "nicer?" side of the Lovecraftian spectrum, along C Is For Cthulhu.
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Post by mordekai on Aug 24, 2022 13:46:55 GMT
Yep. I have a book about European fairies that include medieval demons and present day aliens among the fey folk, arguing that these are just updates of the old myths.
Sort of the Celtic Alp-luachra becomes a Christian Incubus, who becomes a Grey Alien. Same tale about a bedroom visitor doing terrifying stuff to people at night, adapting to the culture of the time...
The Vanishing Hitchhiker is modern version of an ancient myth too, from ancient fairy to medieval ghost to modern ghost.
Cattle mutilation is another myth that is constantly updated, from monsters to vampires to witches to aliens to "mysterious helicopters" to Chupacabras...
Rain-stealing airplanes is another myth that has been updated, from evil witches or demons stealing the rain (or the opposite, causing hailstorms and floods) to evil government conspiracies...
Basically, every modern urban legend about aliens and similar stuff is just an old myth updated...
If you think about it, fae and many other mythical creatures are literally otherworldy creatures. It's just that we didn't know much about astronomy back then or dreamed that space was traversable. So our "aliens" came from Faery, or from Atlantis, the Underworld, the land of spirits, the land of the dead, etc. We've been dreaming of other worlds likely since before we had a word for "world". Read "Passport to Magonia" by Jacques Vallée. Medieval people already had tales about flying ships bringing hostile visitors, the Stormmen, from an alien country high above the clouds... Medieval folklore was actually weirder and wilder than our "medieval fantasy" novels and games... they had stuff like witchcraft as an infectious disease (kinda like werewolves and vampires), witches shooting beams of poisonous invisible light from their eyes, imps as a hive of invisible bugs who live in symbiosis with a witch (the witch can't die until she willingly cuts her bond with the imps), formulas to create artificial imps and dragons from organic matter, house elves created from aborted fetuses, subterranean schools of dark magic built under Christian colleges, warloks drinking dragon's blood to gain the power to manipulate the weather, wooden housemaid golems,sexy green-skinned bark-clad human-eating nymphs, golden wolves who only eat sinners and thieves, black griffon-riding Amazons...etc. |
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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 24, 2022 14:04:01 GMT
Have we already discussed the concept of tulpas here?
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Post by liminal on Aug 24, 2022 17:55:27 GMT
...we are only twelve pages into a volume-ender, folks.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 24, 2022 18:22:24 GMT
If I'm interpreting Aata's monologue correctly, Lindsey and the other aliens and etheric creatures we've seen in the Court were ultimately created by human imagination, via the ether. Powered by the ether? This is almost consistent with things Coyote has said in the past. So... even if only Court members that have no etheric affinity are taken, wouldn't they still have their imaginations? Also, when people die, we've been shown their energy (souls) enter the ether and have no reason to believe that wouldn't happen off earth. Or is the idea that people with no etheric affinity do not go into the ether on death and don't generate energy using their imaginations? That doesn't seem right... This, in short, is a doomed effort, even if it goes as planned. Not that it matters - I still believe it's a scam anyway.  |
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Post by alevice on Aug 24, 2022 18:36:54 GMT
Intelligent ship: Hey lindsay, are you from space? 'Cuz that ass is out of this world!
Lindsey: YES THAT IS CORRECT THANK YOU
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Post by maxptc on Aug 24, 2022 18:40:19 GMT
Also, when people die, we've been shown their energy (souls) enter the ether and have no reason to believe that wouldn't happen off earth. Or is the idea that people with no etheric affinity do not go into the ether on death and don't generate energy using their imaginations? That doesn't seem right... You know, that's actually a simple answer that makes this whole plan a lot more plausible. Doesn't explain why people who are related to magic folk are invited. If it's not genetic but random then it seems impossible to escape. I guess the ether in individuals could also be something primarily generated by belief and magic people dying, which would mean children of people in this society can't randomly be magic. Aside from Annie I guess I have no reason to think it's genetic. Edit: Also makes the unfair argument a lot more logical, if magic is the difference between an afterlife of some kind and nothingness... |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 24, 2022 19:02:45 GMT
After the casual revelation that the Court isn't on Earth to begin with, without giving too many details about how exactly that happened, Kat seems to want to change the subject back to the star ocean, which both Aata/Shell and the mystery person have mentioned was partially etheric in nature. Aata tells her that two of its architects were Bud and Lindsey, the Merostomatozons, then casually drops another earthshaking revelation (or confession, perhaps) that they're space aliens.
But they're not just space aliens. He seems to be telling us that humans imagined meeting space aliens, and the Ether created them – not just Lindsey and Bud, but their entire planet and its history, all the way back to the origins of life in that solar system, presumably far away. So perhaps there are planets out there where life developed independently from Earth, but the Merostomatozons' home planet isn't one of those – human dreams generated it with the help of the Ether, or so Aata implies.
"Make of that what you will," says Aata, so OK, I will. That means that powered by the imaginations of humans, the Ether can reach out across the stars and back in time, making radical, fundamental changes to the fabric of reality. This means that if there's anyone, anyone, left behind on Earth who so much as imagines or dreams about the planet where the Court went, the Ether will embroil the Court's new home in change and wreck the Omega Device's predictive ability again. Remember, Omega's predictive powers are so fragile that a little bit of interference from the Ether sparked the Court to create a star ocean and a plan, centuries in the making, to pull up stakes and move to another planet. The Court will want there to be zero chance of any tendrils of Ether reaching out from Earth to touch their new digs. This is looking more and more like the Court will be mass mindwiping or outright destroying everybody it leaves behind. But Aata and Shell don't seem concerned – unless what they are is resigned, as if they know there's no escaping their fate, so they might as well just enjoy their last moments, during which it doesn't matter how much they reveal, because they'll all be either dead or oblivious soon anyway.
Now, I doubt that Tom's going to just have everybody die, end of comic. So we may see a scene soon where everybody sort of wakes up on Earth and wonders where they are and what they've been doing, having forgotten that the Court ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2022 19:23:38 GMT
Quoth Aata: "Using human thought as the seed, the ether can bring to life all manner of creatures and beings, not just their form, but their origin." ...but belief is also a limiter. Probably very few people die actually believing in Batman or Santa Claus; they may love their stories but they don't actually think they're real. A number of people evidently have died fervently believing in aliens, probably many more died without a great deal of resistance to the idea. So, aliens. As Alex Jones coincidentally said, "IT'S BASICALLY AN INTER-GALAXTIC INVASAION THROUGH PEOPLE!" Perhaps they should have been observing the orientation of frogs, not slugs. More challenging is the idea that some fictional characters can be real even though nobody really believed in them (as such). Renard and Ysengrin are/were examples of this, and I think the key to their existence is/was that they were representatives of social forces that undeniably existed (and were fronted by real animals people were familiar with). So while the Easter Bunny probably isn't real there just may be an Uncle Sam. Antimony has escaped Ysengrin's jaws, survived a fall into the Annan, gopped Nobodies, foiled Whitelegs, blasted Wisps, overcome attacks by Shadow People, but can our heroine conquer subjectivity and resolve the ethereal tenet? Nope. |
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