|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 24, 2022 20:24:24 GMT
After the casual revelation that the Court isn't on Earth to begin with, without giving too many details about how exactly that happened, Kat seems to want to change the subject back to the star ocean, which both Aata/Shell and the mystery person have mentioned was partially etheric in nature. Aata tells her that two of its architects were Bud and Lindsey, the Merostomatozons, then casually drops another earthshaking revelation (or confession, perhaps) that they're space aliens. But they're not just space aliens. He seems to be telling us that humans imagined meeting space aliens, and the Ether created them – not just Lindsey and Bud, but their entire planet and its history, all the way back to the origins of life in that solar system, presumably far away. So perhaps there are planets out there where life developed independently from Earth, but the Merostomatozons' home planet isn't one of those – human dreams generated it with the help of the Ether, or so Aata implies. "Make of that what you will," says Aata, so OK, I will. That means that powered by the imaginations of humans, the Ether can reach out across the stars and back in time, making radical, fundamental changes to the fabric of reality. This means that if there's anyone, anyone, left behind on Earth who so much as imagines or dreams about the planet where the Court went, the Ether will embroil the Court's new home in change and wreck the Omega Device's predictive ability again. Remember, Omega's predictive powers are so fragile that a little bit of interference from the Ether sparked the Court to create a star ocean and a plan, centuries in the making, to pull up stakes and move to another planet. The Court will want there to be zero chance of any tendrils of Ether reaching out from Earth to touch their new digs. This is looking more and more like the Court will be mass mindwiping or outright destroying everybody it leaves behind. But Aata and Shell don't seem concerned – unless what they are is resigned, as if they know there's no escaping their fate, so they might as well just enjoy their last moments, during which it doesn't matter how much they reveal, because they'll all be either dead or oblivious soon anyway. Now, I doubt that Tom's going to just have everybody die, end of comic. So we may see a scene soon where everybody sort of wakes up on Earth and wonders where they are and what they've been doing, having forgotten that the Court ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Nah. There is going to be an epic final battle of Annie and friends vs the Court. |
|
|
|
Post by novia on Aug 24, 2022 21:04:58 GMT
I hope we get to see Basil again sometime, though I'd settle for knowing if he's doing alright. He was fine here |
|
|
|
Post by novia on Aug 24, 2022 21:11:07 GMT
Also, Bud and Lindsey are named as they are as a reference The Abyss, a movie which features underwater aliens cookies to Refugee |
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 24, 2022 21:34:56 GMT
...but belief is also a limiter. Probably very few people die actually believing in Batman or Santa Claus; they may love their stories but they don't actually think they're real. A number of people evidently have died fervently believing in aliens, probably many more died without a great deal of resistance to the idea. So, aliens. I would think that Santa Claus stands a good chance of actually existing in the Gunnerkrigg world. He's based on a real, actual saint, he has gone through many different versions over the years (at least since Victorian times), and there's no limit to how many human-invented Santa stories are out there from America to Japan to Russia. We even actively encourage kids to believe in the fat, jolly elf in a sort of Kayfabe for holidays. Perhaps he looks different to different people; he has a lot of different perceptions to satisfy. = On a somewhat unrelated note, the wonderful Douglas Adams book Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul talks about immortal beings who continue to exist even after they have no more believers — we made them immortal, so they are. I don't know if the Gunnerkrigg Ether works that way, but it would be awesome if it did. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2022 22:26:32 GMT
I would think that Santa Claus stands a good chance of actually existing in the Gunnerkrigg world. He's based on a real, actual saint, he has gone through many different versions over the years (at least since Victorian times), and there's no limit to how many human-invented Santa stories are out there from America to Japan to Russia. We even actively encourage kids to believe in the fat, jolly elf in a sort of Kayfabe for holidays. Perhaps he looks different to different people; he has a lot of different perceptions to satisfy. I don't believe we'll see figures from major existent religions in the comic because of the author's preferences but they should exist by extension of the reasoning for the beings that we've seen. However, St. Nicholas existing and granting the occasional miracle isn't the same thing as Santa Claus existing. It's true that Christmas holiday spirit and spending is a big social force (at least in some places) but I just don't think enough kids are dying with the belief in Santa intact. If he'd been around when infant mortality was much higher, then he probably would exist. People are just living too long these days. That said, if you "know the right people" maybe a one-time visit could be arranged with Santa in special circumstances... but I think when that happens (and let's face it, it probably does in the GCU) it's more like visiting the RotD and meeting a "vampire" or "werewolf." There's probably an etheric bureau responsible for such things. They'd probably argue about who's turn it was to don the red suit and fake beard. [edit] And yep you have a good point about the personalities of the entities varying from what they were supposed to be in myths, legends, or what-have-you. The longer they're around the more experiences they'll have and the more they'll develop away from what they originally were. [/edit] On a somewhat unrelated note, the wonderful Douglas Adams book Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul talks about immortal beings who continue to exist even after they have no more believers — we made them immortal, so they are. I don't know if the Gunnerkrigg Ether works that way, but it would be awesome if it did. Yeah, I think we can tentatively cite the arbiter Saslamel as an example of an out-of-work deity finding a new job. |
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Aug 24, 2022 23:06:42 GMT
If this concept extends beyond traditional mythology and folklore into stuff like science-fiction and aliens, then Batman could be real, too. What do you mean? Of course Batman is real!  |
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 24, 2022 23:10:16 GMT
So, there are aliens, but these aliens are in fact etheric creatures created by human mind, no different to fairies or deities...? If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they even notice the difference?. Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?. What if their whole universe is an etheric creation, brought up by the minds of a previous universe? I sort of understand why the Ether scares them; these thought kinda bring existential dread... but they are still selfish assholes... The universe is an etheric creation of itself. |
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 24, 2022 23:12:06 GMT
I think there's an argument that aliens bridge the gap between science fiction and folklore though, what with all the people that are fully convinced of the reality of things like alien abduction, crop circles, "aliens created the pyramids", and suchlike. Not sure if there are enough people who actually believe in Batman's existence to give him etheric form. Yep. I have a book about European fairies that include medieval demons and present day aliens among the fey folk, arguing that these are just updates of the old myths.
Sort of the Celtic Alp-luachra becomes a Christian Incubus, who becomes a Grey Alien. Same tale about a bedroom visitor doing terrifying stuff to people at night, Some people pay good money for that sort of thing! |
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 24, 2022 23:14:47 GMT
If you think about it, fae and many other mythical creatures are literally otherworldy creatures. It's just that we didn't know much about astronomy back then or dreamed that space was traversable. So our "aliens" came from Faery, or from Atlantis, the Underworld, the land of spirits, the land of the dead, etc. We've been dreaming of other worlds likely since before we had a word for "world". Read "Passport to Magonia" by Jacques Vallée. Medieval people already had tales about flying ships bringing hostile visitors, the Stormmen, from an alien country high above the clouds... Medieval folklore was actually weirder and wilder than our "medieval fantasy" novels and games... they had stuff like witchcraft as an infectious disease (kinda like werewolves and vampires), witches shooting beams of poisonous invisible light from their eyes, imps as a hive of invisible bugs who live in symbiosis with a witch (the witch can't die until she willingly cuts her bond with the imps), formulas to create artificial imps and dragons from organic matter, house elves created from aborted fetuses, subterranean schools of dark magic built under Christian colleges, warloks drinking dragon's blood to gain the power to manipulate the weather, wooden housemaid golems,sexy green-skinned bark-clad human-eating nymphs, golden wolves who only eat sinners and thieves, black griffon-riding Amazons...etc. Medieval times were metal AF |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Aug 24, 2022 23:57:06 GMT
Now, I doubt that Tom's going to just have everybody die, end of comic. So we may see a scene soon where everybody sort of wakes up on Earth and wonders where they are and what they've been doing, having forgotten that the Court ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, though. The completely memory-wiped people would be almost as problematic from a story-telling view as "everyone dies". Between that and the fact (as I've mentioned above) that if the Court's scheme of permanently isolating itself on another planet succeeds, we'd be left without any resolution of its thread (which would also be unsatisfactory story-telling), I think that the best approach would be to have something dramatic ruin the Court's scheme (maybe in the process visiting a dark fate upon the Court's leadership who've been coming up with all these schemes - the most satisfying one would be to have them all transformed into ordinary forest-animals - mentally as well as physically, thereby stripping them of the human intelligence that they had valued and which led them on to carry out those plans). |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 0:27:29 GMT
Now, I doubt that Tom's going to just have everybody die, end of comic. So we may see a scene soon where everybody sort of wakes up on Earth and wonders where they are and what they've been doing, having forgotten that the Court ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, though. The completely memory-wiped people would be almost as problematic from a story-telling view as "everyone dies". Between that and the fact (as I've mentioned above) that if the Court's scheme of permanently isolating itself on another planet succeeds, we'd be left without any resolution of its thread (which would also be unsatisfactory story-telling), I think that the best approach would be to have something dramatic ruin the Court's scheme (maybe in the process bringing an unfortunate end to the Court's leadership who've been coming up with all these schemes - the most satisfying one would be to have them all transformed into ordinary forest-animals - mentally as well as physically, thereby stripping them of the human intelligence that they had valued and which led them on to carry out those plans). The way it see it, Annie, Kat and the others will probably fight a desperate battle to save the people left behind, evacuating the pocket dimension. Annie will have to slay Loup, maybe leaving only his Jerrek persona. Coyote will probably reveal that he was both the Seed of Bismouth and Gillitie Wood all along (remember the tale about the dead goose) and leave laughing, probably travelling to the past to do it all again. Kat will have the task of building a new home for the abandoned forest creatures, robots and "freaks" left behind, maybe even using the Court's own etheric tech to create a pocket world where they can live all together...
As for the Court, I am of two minds:
1.-The real reason behind the special suits that block new memories is for Tom to hide from the readers that the inner circle of Gunnerkrigg Court are... the original founders. They will erase their own memories of the Ether, of Earth and of Gunnerkrigg Court and Gillitie Forest, and they will make themselves believe that they are running from a war. They will land on the new planet, and start building a new Court... and when the Gillitie Forest natives appear, they won't realize that thay have travelled back to the past of their own Earth because of the memory erasure they subjected themselves, and they will discover again the Ether, become astonished at its limitless possibilities, and start the task of mastering it yet ever again...
2.-They arrive to the new planet, and start the long, grueling task of terraforming it without etheric technology, using only normal tech. They live in cramped caves and work endless shifts slowly building a subterranean city while they labor to change the atmosphere into something that can sustain Earth's lifeforms. Then, one day, as Jonathan Llanwellyn lies dying in his bed, Antimony the Psychopomp appears to claim his soul; Llanwellyn doubts she's real, but when she convinces him that she is, he freaks out, because that means the Ether still exists in that planet. Antimony sighs and shows him that the whole world is an etheric creation, an extension of the Sea of Stars created by the Court's leadership's dreams and hopes... the Sea of Stars didn't bridge the space between worlds, it merely created the illusion of other worlds...
|
|
|
|
Post by justcurious on Aug 25, 2022 0:32:04 GMT
The Merostomata is a real biological class. The remaining members of that group are the Xiphosura, the horseshoe crabs. The are not crustaceans but rather are more closely related to arachnids.
Lindsey and Bud are giant intelligent arthropods and not members of a group alien to life on Earth. They have to be creations, at least in part, of the human imagination.
|
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Aug 25, 2022 0:37:08 GMT
If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they even notice the difference?. “And then there are those strange creatures living in their burrows and convinced anything outside is not real”? Coyote most likely could tell, of course. How exactly would the confirmed-as-etherically-blind humans do it? Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?. In which case the important question is whether it’s self-sustaining after everyone else forgets about it. Nah. There is going to be an epic final battle of Annie and friends vs the Court. It would fill up at least 4 volumes of a manga ? |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 0:51:53 GMT
Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?. In which case the important question is whether it’s self-sustaining after everyone else forgets about it. If they manage to land on it, then sure. Even if they forget how they arrived there, they will know there is a planet under their feet, and that knowledge should be enough to sustain it. |
|
caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by caber on Aug 25, 2022 6:04:44 GMT
I hope we get to see Basil again sometime, though I'd settle for knowing if he's doing alright. He was fine hereI'm not sure how I forgot about that. Thanks! |
|
heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
|
Post by heranje on Aug 25, 2022 7:49:42 GMT
I don't believe we'll see figures from major existent religions in the comic because of the author's preferences but they should exist by extension of the reasoning for the beings that we've seen. Well, we already have - buddhism is a major world religion, though Aata doesn't necessarily seem to be one of the named Bodhisattva in real life buddhism. I guess he mainly prefers to avoid the abrahamic religions. |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 11:49:56 GMT
I don't believe we'll see figures from major existent religions in the comic because of the author's preferences but they should exist by extension of the reasoning for the beings that we've seen. Well, we already have - buddhism is a major world religion, though Aata doesn't necessarily seem to be one of the named Bodhisattva in real life buddhism. I guess he mainly prefers to avoid the abrahamic religions. It has been mentioned that Aata may be in fact Devadatta, a failed disciple of Buddha who went evil. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Aug 25, 2022 12:52:13 GMT
1.-The real reason behind the special suits that block new memories is for Tom to hide from the readers that the inner circle of Gunnerkrigg Court are... the original founders. They will erase their own memories of the Ether, of Earth and of Gunnerkrigg Court and Gillitie Forest, and they will make themselves believe that they are running from a war. They will land on the new planet, and start building a new Court... and when the Gillitie Forest natives appear, they won't realize that thay have travelled back to the past of their own Earth because of the memory erasure they subjected themselves, and they will discover again the Ether, become astonished at its limitless possibilities, and start the task of mastering it yet ever again... While time loops involving just information are fun, time loops involving people (at least, this kind of time loop) don't work so well, because it raises the question of where the Founders originally came from. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 25, 2022 14:22:46 GMT
I don't believe we'll see figures from major existent religions in the comic because of the author's preferences but they should exist by extension of the reasoning for the beings that we've seen. Well, we already have - buddhism is a major world religion, though Aata doesn't necessarily seem to be one of the named Bodhisattva in real life buddhism. I guess he mainly prefers to avoid the abrahamic religions. We've also got the generic concept of angels in the comic. As a "beautiful failure" I'm unsure where exactly Aata falls but I think he's an exception because he's sort of generally-Buddhist (probably). |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 17:53:57 GMT
1.-The real reason behind the special suits that block new memories is for Tom to hide from the readers that the inner circle of Gunnerkrigg Court are... the original founders. They will erase their own memories of the Ether, of Earth and of Gunnerkrigg Court and Gillitie Forest, and they will make themselves believe that they are running from a war. They will land on the new planet, and start building a new Court... and when the Gillitie Forest natives appear, they won't realize that thay have travelled back to the past of their own Earth because of the memory erasure they subjected themselves, and they will discover again the Ether, become astonished at its limitless possibilities, and start the task of mastering it yet ever again... While time loops involving just information are fun, time loops involving people (at least, this kind of time loop) don't work so well, because it raises the question of where the Founders originally came from. We already have a time loop like that: Kat's birds, remember? So I see no reason to not do it again. I guess the original Founders may really have escaped a war in another timeline, but as now, they have trapped themselves in an endless loop... |
|
|
|
Post by sebastian on Aug 25, 2022 19:23:05 GMT
So, there are aliens, but these aliens are in fact etheric creatures created by human mind, no different to fairies or deities...? If they ever meet "natural" aliens, will they even notice the difference?. Is the new planet even "real"? How can they be sure it isn't their own etheric creation?. What if their whole universe is an etheric creation, brought up by the minds of a previous universe? I sort of understand why the Ether scares them; these thought kinda bring existential dread... but they are still selfish assholes... That put the Court's opinion under a different light. How can you make 'true' science when the ether change the world based on what you believe? That is less scientific method and more Genius: the transgression (a fan-made RPG based on the "World of Darkness" system, where you play as a Mad Scientist which the ability to twist the physical laws to make his theories works no matter how absurd they are - It is also free, if you want to check it out.) |
|
|
|
Post by Isildur on Aug 25, 2022 20:31:59 GMT
Quoth Aata: "Using human thought as the seed, the ether can bring to life all manner of creatures and beings, not just their form, but their origin." ...but belief is also a limiter. Probably very few people die actually believing in Batman or Santa Claus; they may love their stories but they don't actually think they're real. A number of people evidently have died fervently believing in aliens, probably many more died without a great deal of resistance to the idea. So, aliens. As Alex Jones coincidentally said, "IT'S BASICALLY AN INTER-GALAXTIC INVASAION THROUGH PEOPLE!" Perhaps they should have been observing the orientation of frogs, not slugs. More challenging is the idea that some fictional characters can be real even though nobody really believed in them (as such). Renard and Ysengrin are/were examples of this, and I think the key to their existence is/was that they were representatives of social forces that undeniably existed (and were fronted by real animals people were familiar with). So while the Easter Bunny probably isn't real there just may be an Uncle Sam. Antimony has escaped Ysengrin's jaws, survived a fall into the Annan, gopped Nobodies, foiled Whitelegs, blasted Wisps, overcome attacks by Shadow People, but can our heroine conquer subjectivity and resolve the ethereal tenet? Nope. Kids can heartily believe various fictional characters in children's stories are real, and child mortality is a thing, unfortunately. I'm also still not certain that dying with a belief (p. 1072) is the only way for people to create etheric creatures, though. Zimmy clearly can create creatures while alive (the whitelegs) and while obviously she's very unusual, the difference between her and others may, at least partly, be a matter of degree. That is, others living might be able to faintly leak into the ether while alive, to a far lesser degree, requiring the collective belief of many, many before those beliefs coalesce into an etheric being. Btw, I mentioned the preceding in a previous thread, and I think I meant to answer a question I think someone (was it you?) asked me about it in response, but I didn't get around to it soon enough and lost track of the thread, so I apologize to whomever I failed to answer. (Also, an aside regarding collective thought, here's a short film with some likely-familiar actors that's a little bit related. Warning: Unsettling.) Another thought: For obvious reasons, I certainly have never blamed Tom for avoiding strolling into the following minefield in the comic, and I don't recall if there was ever WoG* (via old Formspring or otherwise) on it (though I doubt there has been such word -- again, for obvious reasons), but it seems like various currently-believed in gods probably would have manifestations in the world of GC, assuming the GC world has all our religions. (I'm sure this has already been brought up a bunch of times, though, by other readers.) _______ *"WoG" taking on added (or in a way, partly original) meaning here. |
|
|
|
Post by davidm on Aug 25, 2022 21:51:06 GMT
I may have gotten coyotes big joke... Just like the aliens are produced by human imagination, so is the new world... Get rid of magic and that magic world disappears
The new world isn't any more real than coyote. The illusion is good enough to fool them, they can calculate their supposed position from night sky compared to Earth but that's just a fake night sky. It's possible that Annie touching the Moon and leaving your fingerprint is also just an illusion created by magic.
For Forest creatures, getting rid of magic would be like genocide or ethnic cleansing of all magic creatures, and only way do so is purge the real world because magic alternative world quits existing without magic.
Star Trek has holodeck... The holodeck magic bullets can be made to kill real people but power down the holodeck and everything created by the holodeck disappears
There is anime grancrest senki where at end of story the Heroes get rid of magic to get rid of evil monsters and allow scientific progress, and everything built upon magic disappears from world... And instead they get science and progresses and risk of world war 3 ending world like before magic existed...
|
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 23:09:16 GMT
I may have gotten coyotes big joke... Just like the aliens are produced by human imagination, so is the new world... Get rid of magic and that magic world disappears The new world isn't any more real than coyote. The illusion is good enough to fool them, they can calculate their supposed position from night sky compared to Earth but that's just a fake night sky. It's possible that Annie touching the Moon and leaving your fingerprint is also just an illusion created by magic. For Forest creatures, getting rid of magic would be like genocide or ethnic cleansing of all magic creatures, and only way do so is purge the real world because magic alternative world quits existing without magic. Star Trek has holodeck... The holodeck magic bullets can be made to kill real people but power down the holodeck and everything created by the holodeck disappears There is anime grancrest senki where at end of story the Heroes get rid of magic to get rid of evil monsters and allow scientific progress, and everything built upon magic disappears from world... And instead they get science and progresses and risk of world war 3 ending world like before magic existed... Ah! Grancrest Senki! The anime where monarchs, feudal lords, church and Mage Association base their right to rule on their ability to use magic, and get tens of thousands of magicless commoners killed in their selfish, petty wars (seriously, they were about to reach unification of the continent at the beginning of the series, and they chose to start a war instead because... reasons...), only to renounce all magic at the end, and we are supposed to believe that means the end of all wars and happiness for everybody forever... 
Seriously, they shouldn't worry about the rediscovery of science and technology, that will take hundreds or thousands of years for a society that has been actively trying to uproot and wipe them... what they should worry is the collapse of their society when all these resentful commoners and suddenly unemployed war veterans realize that 1.-all the carnage, destruction, rape and looting was meaningless, and 2.-all these smug, arrogant crest-bearing nobles, their tattooed bodyguards and their mage advisors have lost their power and they no longer have the might to crush the commoners at will...
Theirs is a society whose hierarchy and stability is based on raw power... a society in which people are used to the idea that, if you defeat a noble, you get their title, wealth, lands and social position... And now every soldier knows that their lord isn't stronger than any of them...
We need a sequel: "Grancret Senki: Global Revolution".
|
|
|
|
Post by todd on Aug 25, 2022 23:41:29 GMT
While time loops involving just information are fun, time loops involving people (at least, this kind of time loop) don't work so well, because it raises the question of where the Founders originally came from. We already have a time loop like that: Kat's birds, remember? In their case, the time loop applied only to the idea or conception. Kat didn't build the Tic-Toc out of the remains of the Tic-Toc that Ysengrin brought to the Court in Chapter Fourteen. |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Aug 25, 2022 23:49:52 GMT
We already have a time loop like that: Kat's birds, remember? In their case, the time loop applied only to the idea or conception. Kat didn't build the Tic-Toc out of the remains of the Tic-Toc that Ysengrin brought to the Court in Chapter Fourteen. It's the same: Even if Kat only got the idea of building a Tic-Toc, and not the materials, she built her Tic-Toc because there were already Tic-Tocs around. It's the same closed loop.
In some universe, a Kat built the first Tic-Toc and sent it to the past without need of inspiration from watching already existing Tic-Tocs, and started a cycle that closes itself and becomes eternal...
|
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 26, 2022 2:30:15 GMT
1.-The real reason behind the special suits that block new memories is for Tom to hide from the readers that the inner circle of Gunnerkrigg Court are... the original founders. They will erase their own memories of the Ether, of Earth and of Gunnerkrigg Court and Gillitie Forest, and they will make themselves believe that they are running from a war. They will land on the new planet, and start building a new Court... and when the Gillitie Forest natives appear, they won't realize that thay have travelled back to the past of their own Earth because of the memory erasure they subjected themselves, and they will discover again the Ether, become astonished at its limitless possibilities, and start the task of mastering it yet ever again... I look forward to the final page of this version of the comic, where Steadman is leading a horse along the beach, when he suddenly comes to.... no, it can't be.... something.... which makes him drop to his knees and shout. YOU MANIACS!!!! YOU BLEW IT UP! |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 26, 2022 2:57:51 GMT
Kids can heartily believe various fictional characters in children's stories are real, and child mortality is a thing, unfortunately. This is true, but many more people die after losing their beliefs in Santa and other fictional characters. I suspect getting massively ratio'd gives an etheric veto. I'm also still not certain that dying with a belief (p. 1072) is the only way for people to create etheric creatures, though. Zimmy clearly can create creatures while alive (the whitelegs) and while obviously she's very unusual, the difference between her and others may, at least partly, be a matter of degree. That is, others living might be able to faintly leak into the ether while alive, to a far lesser degree, requiring the collective belief of many, many before those beliefs coalesce into an etheric being. Btw, I mentioned the preceding in a previous thread, and I think I meant to answer a question I think someone (was it you?) asked me about it in response, but I didn't get around to it soon enough and lost track of the thread, so I apologize to whomever I failed to answer. I don't think that was me. Regarding Zeta, I don't think she consciously creates the Whitelegs... I think they're more of a psychic toxic waste byproduct of Gamma bombarding Zeta with positive thoughts to keep Zeta's psyche intact. The "spent" thoughts coagulate in her subconscious with the raw power leaking through her and, shazam, a spider. That's why they love her so much. How they leak out into reality probably relates to Zeta not having a complete grip on her own mind and emotions. She's probably an inattentive turnkey from time to time. Why spiders I'm unsure except that spiders are predatory, kinda dangerous, and creepy to many people; it was a great character design choice to associate Zeta with spiders. I agree Zeta almost certainly has the power to create etheric beings of a lesser sort like shadow men but I don't think she has enough control to do so consciously. If she has the power to create more complex and powerful beings is unclear but she just might. Another way etheric beings can be created without belief/dying humans is by necessity, methinks. My suspicion is that Jones exists for basically the same reason Antimony survived the fall into the Annan. Because Kat would eventually use time travel to save her one way or another, she didn't die in the first place (from the perspective of this Kat). To boil down my etheric flow theory into a single sentence, ether is naturally inclined to flow but requires people/stories to do so, rocks shaped by natural processes can sometimes look like other things, so human-ish rock long predating humans necessitated and permitted a one-time flow which resulted in the oxbow-lake now called Jones. On that note, I think the Court has really dropped the ball by not studying Jones enough. Of all etheric beings in the Comic I think she's third only to Coyote and/or "Loup" as a potential source of answers about retroactive creation. Also, an aside regarding collective thought, here's a short film with some likely-familiar actors that's a little bit related. Warning: Unsettling. I do believe a failed and divorced Grunzer was my temp faculty advisor many years ago when I transferred institutions of higher learning. I've met a few more of them over the years. For obvious reasons, I certainly have never blamed Tom for avoiding strolling into the following minefield in the comic, and I don't recall if there was ever WoG* (via old Formspring or otherwise) on it (though I doubt there has been such word -- again, for obvious reasons), but it seems like various currently-believed in gods probably would have manifestations in the world of GC, assuming the GC world has all our religions. (I'm sure this has already been brought up a bunch of times, though, by other readers.) It's been Formsprung that he might add characters from Christianity or Hinduism (and presumably others) but only if it was necessary and added to the story. In another post he said he didn't think it would be necessary/would not add to the comic. I think he said something similar in the Q2T threads but am too lazy to check. The mechanism for avoiding aforementioned minefield is having the people of the Court largely be atheist/agnostic/whatever by dint of realizing that belief and/or magic wasn't strictly necessary for scientific progress. Since the population of the Court isn't that big and the topic of gods rarely comes up it works pretty well. |
|
|
|
Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 26, 2022 8:24:21 GMT
I'm only just realizing the semi metaphoric travel is probably a literal instance of "sailing the stars" on this Star Ocean.
|
|
|
|
Post by speedwell on Aug 26, 2022 8:28:43 GMT
In their case, the time loop applied only to the idea or conception. Kat didn't build the Tic-Toc out of the remains of the Tic-Toc that Ysengrin brought to the Court in Chapter Fourteen. It's the same: Even if Kat only got the idea of building a Tic-Toc, and not the materials, she built her Tic-Toc because there were already Tic-Tocs around. It's the same closed loop.
In some universe, a Kat built the first Tic-Toc and sent it to the past without need of inspiration from watching already existing Tic-Tocs, and started a cycle that closes itself and becomes eternal...
Not necessarily. Time loops assume already closed systems, and we just had it confirmed that the Gunnerkrigg milieu is a "pocket" within a larger contextual domain. You can't time-travel inside a closed dimension. You can only do so by leaving the dimension, traveling, and re-entering it at a different point on its time axis. |
|
