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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 26, 2022 8:30:19 GMT
It's the same: Even if Kat only got the idea of building a Tic-Toc, and not the materials, she built her Tic-Toc because there were already Tic-Tocs around. It's the same closed loop. In some universe, a Kat built the first Tic-Toc and sent it to the past without need of inspiration from watching already existing Tic-Tocs, and started a cycle that closes itself and becomes eternal...
Not necessarily. Time loops assume already closed systems, and we just had it confirmed that the Gunnerkrigg milieu is a "pocket" within a larger contextual domain. You can't time-travel inside a closed dimension. You can only do so by leaving the dimension, traveling, and re-entering it at a different point on its time axis. You can't? That seems highly conjectural even for this |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 26, 2022 8:31:45 GMT
Not necessarily. Time loops assume already closed systems, and we just had it confirmed that the Gunnerkrigg milieu is a "pocket" within a larger contextual domain. You can't time-travel inside a closed dimension. You can only do so by leaving the dimension, traveling, and re-entering it at a different point on its time axis. You can't? That seems highly conjectural even for this physics |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 26, 2022 8:54:14 GMT
You can't? That seems highly conjectural even for this physics q.v. magic.  |
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 26, 2022 10:31:41 GMT
If they manage to land on it, then sure. Even if they forget how they arrived there, they will know there is a planet under their feet, and that knowledge should be enough to sustain it. Well, the question is how many of them are needed to maintain something big enough. The threshold below which it amounts to an attempted escape from madhouse using imaginary ladders. |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 26, 2022 12:03:17 GMT
I don't believe we'll see figures from major existent religions in the comic , though it was a single cameo. While time loops involving just information are fun, time loops involving people (at least, this kind of time loop) don't work so well, because it raises the question of where the Founders originally came from. We already have a time loop like that: Kat's birds, remember? No. todd was talking about actual objects/persons being looped in time. The Tic-Toc has a bounded though nonlinear timeline starting with being assembled by Kat in chapter 76, and its remains being crushed by Ysengrin in chapter 14. And even the information that was passed through the loop wasn't much. Kat knew Annie had been saved by robot birds and that's it. She had never even seen a Tic-Toc before. Even her interest in birds mainly came from meeting Alistair and City Face. |
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Post by todd on Aug 26, 2022 12:36:16 GMT
One other problem with "the Founders are running the Court all along"; we know already that they're dead (or at least the specifically named ones, Diego, Sir Young, and Steadman). (Their deaths were confirmed in the Realm of the Dead chapter.)
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Post by mordekai on Aug 26, 2022 13:49:40 GMT
One other problem with "the Founders are running the Court all along"; we know already that they're dead (or at least the specifically named ones, Diego, Sir Young, and Steadman). (Their deaths were confirmed in the Realm of the Dead chapter.) My theory is that the Founders were born recently, are alive now, will travel to the past and die there. We don't know who started the Court during the first cycle, but in the present recursive loop it is founded by time-travellers born during the late XX century. In short, the Founders are their own great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents... |
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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 26, 2022 16:06:49 GMT
You can't? That seems highly conjectural even for this physics Theoretical physics, sure, and yeah magic but also no actual idea how temporal physics works with multiple connected dimensions involved. It's a pocket dimension sure, but not a closed off dimension, as the transitkon seems seamless. Seems more like a folded space more than anything. A tunnel to shorten a light years long distance that's open on either end. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 26, 2022 16:28:52 GMT
Theoretical physics, sure, and yeah magic but also no actual idea how temporal physics works with multiple connected dimensions involved. It's a pocket dimension sure, but not a closed off dimension, as the transitkon seems seamless. Seems more like a folded space more than anything. A tunnel to shorten a light years long distance that's open on either end. Oh, I see you misunderstood what I wrote. Review it and a couple of recent articles on what time travel would entail in a closed single universe and you'll see what I meant. And no need to resort to handwaving it away as "magic can do anything you want" ; we're doing thinking here, not wishing. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 26, 2022 19:08:56 GMT
The completely memory-wiped people would be almost as problematic from a story-telling view as "everyone dies". Between that and the fact (as I've mentioned above) that if the Court's scheme of permanently isolating itself on another planet succeeds, we'd be left without any resolution of its thread (which would also be unsatisfactory story-telling), I think that the best approach would be to have something dramatic ruin the Court's scheme (maybe in the process visiting a dark fate upon the Court's leadership who've been coming up with all these schemes - the most satisfying one would be to have them all transformed into ordinary forest-animals - mentally as well as physically, thereby stripping them of the human intelligence that they had valued and which led them on to carry out those plans). I don't think it's as problematic as that. Not that I really think this will happen, but if the Ether can remove people's memories, it can restore them too, so it would be a matter of going on some kind of quest to restore everyone's memories. That would be once they realized that there were missing memories to be restored – the Court may miss something. For example, they may be unable to affect Loup's memories, or Renard's. |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 26, 2022 20:39:37 GMT
Theoretical physics, sure, and yeah magic but also no actual idea how temporal physics works with multiple connected dimensions involved. It's a pocket dimension sure, but not a closed off dimension, as the transitkon seems seamless. Seems more like a folded space more than anything. A tunnel to shorten a light years long distance that's open on either end. Oh, I see you misunderstood what I wrote. Review it and a couple of recent articles on what time travel would entail in a closed single universe and you'll see what I meant. And no need to resort to handwaving it away as "magic can do anything you want" ; we're doing thinking here, not wishing. The Ether has repeatedly broken the laws of casualty in the comic, and not in a closed universe, but on regular Earth... |
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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 27, 2022 6:01:09 GMT
Theoretical physics, sure, and yeah magic but also no actual idea how temporal physics works with multiple connected dimensions involved. It's a pocket dimension sure, but not a closed off dimension, as the transitkon seems seamless. Seems more like a folded space more than anything. A tunnel to shorten a light years long distance that's open on either end. Oh, I see you misunderstood what I wrote. Review it and a couple of recent articles on what time travel would entail in a closed single universe and you'll see what I meant. And no need to resort to handwaving it away as "magic can do anything you want" ; we're doing thinking here, not wishing. Except we are. Can't discount magic when it's the bulk of what's being discussed here. Can't reliably cite theoretical physics because, frankly, anything the writer decides can happen will be happening. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 27, 2022 7:36:09 GMT
Oh, I see you misunderstood what I wrote. Review it and a couple of recent articles on what time travel would entail in a closed single universe and you'll see what I meant. And no need to resort to handwaving it away as "magic can do anything you want" ; we're doing thinking here, not wishing. Except we are. Can't discount magic when it's the bulk of what's being discussed here. Can't reliably cite theoretical physics because, frankly, anything the writer decides can happen will be happening. That is true. You neatly ended all speculation there, so you did. 😂 |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 27, 2022 7:45:30 GMT
Oh, I see you misunderstood what I wrote. Review it and a couple of recent articles on what time travel would entail in a closed single universe and you'll see what I meant. And no need to resort to handwaving it away as "magic can do anything you want" ; we're doing thinking here, not wishing. The Ether has repeatedly broken the laws of casualty in the comic, and not in a closed universe, but on regular Earth... |
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