[2459] "I want to take part in life."

[arf]

"Life. Isn't it a good thi-ing..."

(apols. to Elton John)

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

[madjack]

A man in the desert, huh?

And the sky in that panel...

Apr 26, 2021 7:05:01 GMT arf said:

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

It's him, they're on different sides of the bars.

[jda]

Dang. The most anxiety-related post I can relate to.

[Timberwere]

Apr 26, 2021 7:05:01 GMT arf said:

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

I was assuming that is how Tony sees himself in connection with Annie.

Apr 26, 2021 7:06:41 GMT madjack said:

A man in the desert, huh?

And the sky in that panel...

Excellent catch!

And yeah, I can imagine how Tony could lose himself in that sky and not feel lonely or bored.

[imaginaryfriend]

Apr 26, 2021 7:05:01 GMT arf said:

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

Not entirely sure but I think it's supposed to be Anthony on the other side of the bars. There's bars on the other side of Antimony, though, which I guess represents her own mind cage he's projecting on her by thinking she shares the same preferences and issues?

[flowsthead]

He's really laying it all out there. He should at least have offered Jones a seat.

The pink and red colors for the background of Surma+Anthony is a nice depiction of love. It's also nice to see a pregnant image of Surma. And I also just noticed that Tony is only shown wearing bright colors when he's with Surma, on the jungle trip and in this image.

[agasa]

This is by far the saddest comic I ever saw. It made me spill a tear. It hits quite close to home (even if at 30, I managed to work around it. I don't have a social anxiety as big as Tony. It takes me years to be really comfortable around someone still...)

Apr 26, 2021 7:22:53 GMT flowsthead said:

He's really laying it all out there. He should at least have offered Jones a seat.

And Jones needs no seat. They are unending an unending avatar of the concept of life, I guess. Or something. Even if somehow in human form. He knows it well, and probably that's why he offers no seat, and why he opens up so fully.

Would you offer This Guy a seat? Pretty much the same stuff, but Jones's more passive and ain't so creepy.

(Truth, Full Metal Alchemist)

[silicondream]

The theme of ambiguous or impossible figures continues, I think. How many bars are there, and where is Lil' Annie positioned relative to them? Is stylized Tony atop a hill surrounded by a crowd, or trapped inside a cave walled off by a crowd?

Even in the "real world," Tony's appearance has always seemed remarkably variable to me. There's his age and facial injuries, of course, but he also shifts through an unusual range of artistic styles even by Tom's standards. Always represented, never really seen.

[flowsthead]

Apr 26, 2021 7:23:17 GMT agasa said:

Apr 26, 2021 7:22:53 GMT flowsthead said:

He's really laying it all out there. He should at least have offered Jones a seat.

And Jones needs no seat. They are unending an unending avatar of the concept of life, I guess. Or something. Even if somehow in human form. He knows it well, and probably that's why he offers no seat, and why he opens up so fully.

I know this is kind of joke, but she does voluntarily choose to sit on many occasions. Like so www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=977

[wies]

I sympathize with the yearning to take part in life very much, but Tony has to seek help if he wants to accomplish that. He can't open this cage at his own. And that sucks, it really is hard to swallow that you need help for something so many people do seemingly effortlessly. But there are worser ways to start (much worse like going off on a journey at your own to find a mystic solution, to name an example) taking part in life by depending on others to handle life.

Of course, the Court is hardly the most sympathetic place to find such help, to be fair.

[silicondream]

One more thought: part of the reason Tony's debut was so memorable--and so villainous--in The Tree was that his appearance was exceptionally concrete there, while Antimony was the one losing detail and definition around him. We saw him as a threat to her self-concept; now we see her (and any group of people) as a threat to his.

Apr 26, 2021 7:42:13 GMT flowsthead said:

I know this is kind of joke, but she does voluntarily choose to sit on many occasions. Like so www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=977

True, although that particular instance was more about getting down to Shadow's eye level. And while she habitually sits in her office, that might also be a matter of putting other people at ease.

We can certainly assume that the lady with bugged stats and a geological track record doesn't need to sit, in the sense that standing never makes her tired, achy or bored.

[Refugee]

Apr 26, 2021 7:09:43 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Apr 26, 2021 7:05:01 GMT arf said:

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

Not entirely sure but I think it's supposed to be Anthony on the other side of the bars.

Got to be Tony, yes. (I also suspect arf of commenting by asking a question. If so, it's done well enough I can't be sure.)

In any event, note that Tony has no neck--his head is separate from his body. I know that feeling.

I've always been more than a little sympathetic to Tony. His actions towards Annie sometimes seem borderline abusive. And yet--everything he does seems to make her stronger, and not just because she builds up scar tissue. Really stronger, in the athletic/military training/"No pain no gain" sense

I very strongly urge viewing The Accountant (2016), starring Ben Affleck, for insights into Tony's approach to raising his daughter, and into Tony himself. The movie looks like a standard action movie. It's not. It's a psychological study, with a fairly complex narrative structure that can be a bit hard to follow. I suspect it should be watched twice, once cold, as cold as you can (no previews or reviews), and again once you know the secrets.

===

Speaking of the head being separate from the body--am I the last one to notice that Annie being split into two persons mirrors her Father-inspired but self-imposed separation from her fiery self?

[flowsthead]

Apr 26, 2021 7:55:47 GMT silicondream said:

Apr 26, 2021 7:42:13 GMT flowsthead said:

I know this is kind of joke, but she does voluntarily choose to sit on many occasions. Like so www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=977

True, although that particular instance was more about getting down to Shadow's eye level. And while she habitually sits in her office, that might also be a matter of putting other people at ease.

We can certainly assume that the lady with bugged stats and a geological track record doesn't need to sit, in the sense that standing never makes her tired, achy or bored.

She's also sitting when she's by herself, like here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=788

Sure, I agree that she doesn't psychically need to sit, but that doesn't mean she doesn't sit.

[wlerin]

Apr 26, 2021 7:09:43 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Apr 26, 2021 7:05:01 GMT arf said:

Also, who or what is that vague figure next to his daughter?

Not entirely sure but I think it's supposed to be Anthony on the other side of the bars. There's bars on the other side of Antimony, though, which I guess represents her own mind cage he's projecting on her by thinking she shares the same preferences and issues?

I *think* the bars behind Antimony are just the shadow of Tony's cage.

[foxurus]

Apr 26, 2021 7:52:17 GMT wies said:

I sympathize with the yearning to take part in life very much, but Tony has to seek help if he wants to accomplish that. He can't open this cage at his own. And that sucks, it really is hard to swallow that you need help for something so many people do seemingly effortlessly. But there are worser ways to start (much worse like going off on a journey at your own to find a mystic solution, to name an example) taking part in life by depending on others to handle life.

Of course, the Court is hardly the most sympathetic place to find such help, to be fair.

I find it likely his mind cage is much more literal than most people's; a standard therapist may not be any help. He might not have had the chance to ever visit one either way, since we don't know how long he's been with the Court. He doesn't talk about his parents, and the Court trusted him with important secrets when he was still a student. Like you say, the Court does not strike me as a good place to get therapy.

[blahzor]

i'm full speed (actually 90%) in that Kat is responsible for his Mind Cage like someone Wild Spec'd

[guntherkrieg]

Choose disappearing for years. Choose trying to resurrect your dead wife. Choose bargaining with a malignant spirit. Choose chopping your hand off. Choose turning that hand into a machine to pierce the veil. Choose returning. Choose being horrible to your daughter, not explaining why to anyone and getting drunk alone. Choose LIFE.

[guntherkrieg]

Also: wah fucking wah, Tony. You could have explained this to your best mates and let them pick up the slack.

[wies]

Apr 26, 2021 9:04:30 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Choose returning.  [...]getting drunk alone.

I agree that he did choose most of what you summed up, but he didn't want to return. He wanted to die and was forced to return by the Court in order to prevent that they would cut her off from the program (we don't yet know what that is, but Tony thinks that would be bad for her). Still, he did handle that return horribly like you pointed out.

He was also not getting drunk alone. He was getting drunk with his seemingly only friend while he did in fact explain what happened.

[linchie]

Apr 26, 2021 7:34:54 GMT silicondream said:

Even in the "real world," Tony's appearance has always seemed remarkably variable to me. There's his age and facial injuries, of course, but he also shifts through an unusual range of artistic styles even by Tom's standards. Always represented, never really seen.

It looks like Tom is just not that good at drawing realistic males and thus fails to keep his design cohesive. Just look at the first frame of the today's page... meme material

[0o0f]

Apr 26, 2021 10:23:08 GMT linchie said:

Apr 26, 2021 7:34:54 GMT silicondream said:

Even in the "real world," Tony's appearance has always seemed remarkably variable to me. There's his age and facial injuries, of course, but he also shifts through an unusual range of artistic styles even by Tom's standards. Always represented, never really seen.

It looks like Tom is just not that good at drawing realistic males and thus fails to keep his design cohesive. Just look at the first frame of the today's page... meme material

There was also the running joke that no one could recognise Eglamore whenever he appeared. So yeah I think Tom is not as comfortable with drawing men...

[ohthatone]

I wonder if he allowed himself the time to try to bond with his newborn daughter. He was so busy working to help surma and probably had to work as a doctor for other patients from time to time he may have not allowed himself the time, effectively making annie just another person in the room instead of his own flesh and blood.

[oneandoneis2]

Is does kinda beg the question.. Tony, even if it's that hard to talk to Antimony about this.. could you maybe write the poor girl a letter or something? If you're aware of the problem, let her know you know and that it's not her fault. C'mon...

[pyradonis]

Apr 26, 2021 10:58:02 GMT ohthatone said:

I wonder if he allowed himself the time to try to bond with his newborn daughter. He was so busy working to help surma and probably had to work as a doctor for other patients from time to time

Don't forget he also had to research the Omega Device, so he basically had two to three jobs.

[novia]

Apr 26, 2021 7:06:41 GMT madjack said:

And the sky in that panel...

Anthony is Coyote confirmed

[imaginaryfriend]

Apr 26, 2021 10:58:02 GMT ohthatone said:

I wonder if he allowed himself the time to try to bond with his newborn daughter. He was so busy working to help surma and probably had to work as a doctor for other patients from time to time he may have not allowed himself the time, effectively making annie just another person in the room instead of his own flesh and blood.

I sorta suspect that since Surma and Antimony couldn't bear to be apart his opportunities to even hold her when she was teeny may have been very limited.

[jasmijn]

I gotta say, I really relate to Tony here. Being unable to reach out to the people who should be closest to me, feeling like you're just watching other people live their lives, as if you're locked in a mind prison. Sound like how I still feel a lot of the time. It's gotten a lot better since I was a child, but the pandemic really seems to have set me back years if not decades of progress.

[nero]

Annie would have gone through a tough time with whoever had to be her father, not just Anthony. It makes me wonder what this conversation with Jones will lead to. Anthony's story seems like it could end with him becoming a much better father for Annie, or at least for him to hold real conversations with her.

[Gemminie]

Tony's looking a bit off-model in that first panel. But anyway, he confirms that his condition, whatever it is, frustrates him. It's not what he wants.

Then he confirms that alone he can be himself easily, and that he can occupy himself in even the most austere surroundings. Beautiful desert scene, and the sky is full of patterns. There is no Horse with No Name, though. It seems to me that the patterns in the sky are probably the patterns of nature that he knows and can recognize. But he can be himself when alone, which is something that hasn't previously been fully confirmed. Renard said that he worked, ate, and went to bed silently, but then he did have Renard around, and he may have suspected that Renard was watching.

And then there's a depiction of the isolation Tony feels. Most of the time he isn't alone, there's more than one other person, preventing him from taking part. It's already been mentioned that he could either be on top of a hill or inside some kind of shadow or cave here.

When he was with Surma, everything was warm, with warm colors even, and he was happy. Possibly for the only time in his life. But ... "this time would be different?" "This time?" Different from what? Simplest explanation: he knew that with Surma and their child around, there would be two other people, but he thought it would be different because they would be Surma, whom he was comfortable being around, and a child, who would be family. Surely that would be different. But no.

Behind Tony we see a schematic representation of the cage closing around his mind, even when alone with Annie, so worse than ever. There's a transition from the warmer background color to cold monochrome bars. No way out.

So, what we've learned today has basically been confirmation of some suspicions – he doesn't want to be like this; he has no choice in the matter. It's not like a series of gradations between being like an automaton and being a human; it's like a lightswitch, on or off. He can in fact be himself when alone. And Annie is an exception to the rule, an unforeseen exception that torments him. But, as oneandoneis2 has already said, couldn't he write her a letter? One would think that he'd have thought of that, though; perhaps the cage descends around him even at the thought of interacting with her. But ... fine, dictate the letter to someone else, unless it happens then too.

[jda]

Apr 26, 2021 9:03:18 GMT blahzor said:

i'm full speed (actually 90%) in that Kat is responsible for his Mind Cage like someone Wild Spec'd

whoa. What if Tony made a deal/received a reprise from This Other Ancient Guy and interpreter and was mindcaged as Clippy proposed first (panel 3)?

(or will make in the future, and retro-applied by time shenanigans? Like, in some future Annie is at risk of dying, but Tony makes a deal to save her, and the Jailer says "Ok, but then you would never be able to show her love", and ping, Tony as a child is mindfkd, I mean, mindcaged from that day on)