[2310] I made them

[philman]

They are all this same robot

Wait, does that mean there was only ever 1 tictoc bird in the first place, displaced throughout time? Is this why we haven't seen one in ages because of the one that died saving Annie?

[justhalf]

So the time travel theory is confirmed! Cookies to Daedalus prediction 7 years ago.

[madjack]

I count 6 of them in the panel 6 cutback. Given she specifically said 'they are all this same robot' would that mean there are at least 5 alternate timelines open?

[artezzatrigger]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Its been so long since I started reading I can't actually remember when I hopped on, but after all these years I'm so glad we're getting the answer to this. And what an answer it's turning out to be!

[theonethatgotaway]

SO casual about FRIKKIN' TIME TRAVEL, KAT! HOW THE WHAT NOW?

[Gotolei]

Interesting to think that the Court wasn't able to make anything of "them" (other than "it's one of those birds"), seems like Kat's made a robot architecture completely separate from what the Court uses? You'd think they'd have some kind of identifying signal otherwise. If they could track Tony to the ends of the Earth but get stumped by a robot made by one of their own... whew.

Also kind of neat how the bird ends up dying once (presumably) it's confirmed that Annie was saved in the fall. Looping time travel machine or not, at least it cleans up after itself (or cleans up itself, rather).

[Dvandaemon]

May 27, 2020 7:09:29 GMT theonethatgotaway said:

SO casual about FRIKKIN' TIME TRAVEL, KAT! HOW THE WHAT NOW?

Of course she is. This is the same girl who made anti-gravity to focus on protein development. This girl loves warping the fabric of spacetime for what she's really trying to figure out.

[ellies]

So my understanding of this panel - Kat makes the original, sends it back in time. Fast forward to the present, she sends it back in time again, so now there are two in the past. When they reach the present, she can send them both back so she has four. Tic-tocs ad infinitum. Each time she does this, she's creating a new timeline.

To be honest, I'm surprised this was so immediate. I figured Kat would show Annie the tic-tocs, learn that they already existed, and reason that she must have sent them to the past - so she then would know it was possible. I'm glad this was so straightforward instead.

EDIT: So this would mean that the Annie that was saved by the tic-tocs is from an alternate timeline, leaving open the possibility that one of the Annies is the "original" one.

[Angry Robot]

May 27, 2020 7:09:29 GMT theonethatgotaway said:

SO casual about FRIKKIN' TIME TRAVEL, KAT! HOW THE WHAT NOW?

She was equally casual about inventing antigravity, so it's in character. [Edit: beaten to the punch by Dvandaemon]

So - knowing that two Annies could coexist in the same timeline gave Kat the flash of insight she needed to create multiple copies of the TicTocs throughout the timeline.

[avurai]

*spits out drink and trips*

[imaginaryfriend]

Welcome to the forum, ellies!

May 27, 2020 7:03:51 GMT madjack said:

I count 6 of them in the panel 6 cutback. Given she specifically said 'they are all this same robot' would that mean there are at least 5 alternate timelines open?

The absolute minimum would be 3.  [edit]Or possibly if you add a loop (hehe) that collapsed on the sixth go-through it could be only one alternate (4 total after Antimony was split again).[/edit] The upper limit is not knowable.  Maybe as many as 1,536 depending on how they progress. Then "Loup" made the upper boundary 1,536² I think.

Is why the idea of self-correction is appealing and there is some evidence of that in the comic (though not proof) in what the Antimonies have been doing.  

[avurai]

May 27, 2020 7:11:48 GMT Gotolei said:

Also kind of neat how the bird ends up dying once (presumably) it's confirmed that Annie was saved in the fall. Looping time travel machine or not, at least it cleans up after itself (or cleans up itself, rather).

I know it’s pronounced ‘loo’ in French, but this is making me consider why he calls himself Loup. Cheeky, Tom.

[philman]

If we're going with the theory that Kat sent these back in time to save Annie in the first few comics. What was the path of this universe supposed to be? What events in Gunnerkrigg would and wouldn't have happened if Annie had died? Jeanne would still be there, Loup wouldn't exist, Robot's CPU would still be stuck in robot jail so the cult would never have started

[wies]

May 27, 2020 7:09:29 GMT theonethatgotaway said:

SO casual about FRIKKIN' TIME TRAVEL, KAT! HOW THE WHAT NOW?

Like others said, when she is fixated on something, she doesn't really pay attention to the circumstances surrounding it or what she is doing to achieve it.

So I think there is still something else coming, likely the news of Annie's supposed death. Kat kinda has to repeat what her older self did, or else Annie would die.

May 27, 2020 7:11:48 GMT Gotolei said:

Also kind of neat how the bird ends up dying once (presumably) it's confirmed that Annie was saved in the fall. Looping time travel machine or not, at least it cleans up after itself (or cleans up itself, rather).

Well, it did considerable damage to the cliff face. Though Ys encouraged it, to be fair.

[chrisjenl]

May 27, 2020 7:16:01 GMT ellies said:

So my understanding of this panel - Kat makes the original, sends it back in time. Fast forward to the present, she sends it back in time again, so now there are two in the past. When they reach the present, she can send them both back so she has four. Tic-tocs ad infinitum. Each time she does this, she's creating a new timeline.

To be honest, I'm surprised this was so immediate. I figured Kat would show Annie the tic-tocs, learn that they already existed, and reason that she must have sent them to the past - so she then would know it was possible. I'm glad this was so straightforward instead.

EDIT: So this would mean that the Annie that was saved by the tic-tocs is from an alternate timeline, leaving open the possibility that one of the Annies is the "original" one.

I dont think so. I think that se make one (one question is when. Before of after the reveal of the Annie didn't belong here at all) and after that. Realizes that she has created something that is impossible. by recognizing that it is the bird that saves Annie or reading the log.

and if it is after the reveal she make it so find (and safe) the real Annie

[wies]

I think ellies is also saying that Kat just made one, but used time mechanics to ensure there were more than enough tic tocs to save Annie.

[philman]

Another thing that just occured to me, the TicTocs most notable interference was when they interfered to save Annie after falling from the bridge. However a few chapters later we see them with Zimmy and she hates them, she can always feel them watching. We also know that Zimmy has weird reality and time distorting powers.

What if method that Kat is using to send the tictocs back in time is by using Zimmy somehow? Kat was intimately involved in The Torn Sea where she saw the robots manipulate Zimmy into distorting time and space for their own means. What if she took that idea, refined it, and has been using Zimmy without her knowledge to send the Tictocs back in time? It would also explain why the TicTocs are often around Zimmy, and why she hates them so much.

[Blitz]

Well the multiple birds could simply be explained by a self-replicating machine rather than the extras coming from other timelines. And perhaps Kat isn't sending the birds themselves into other timelines, but they have a network which allows them to share information across dimensions.

[imaginaryfriend]

We do know Zimmy can distort reality. Not sure if Kat needed to use her to send the bird(s) back but the notion of her piggybacking them using her (and inadvertently peeping at her through them while doing so) entertains me.

[gpvos]

"In a sense, I created one of you."

[Anthony]

Created by Kat, destroyed by Ysengrin.

[madjack]

May 27, 2020 7:35:50 GMT philman said:

If we're going with the theory that Kat sent these back in time to save Annie in the first few comics. What was the path of this universe supposed to be? What events in Gunnerkrigg would and wouldn't have happened if Annie had died? Jeanne would still be there, Loup wouldn't exist, Robot's CPU would still be stuck in robot jail so the cult would never have started

A few of us dived into this in the wildspec thread. One thing we missed was that Shadow would likely still be stuck at the bottom of the gorge, unless he stowed away with Kat when she went to look for Annie.

May 27, 2020 7:53:55 GMT Blitz said:

Well the multiple birds could simply be explained by a self-replicating machine rather than the extras coming from other timelines. And perhaps Kat isn't sending the birds themselves into other timelines, but they have a network which allows them to share information across dimensions.

Oooh, this also makes good sense.

[ruthie]

looks like we know what Muut's business nearby was now...

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=132

[jda]

May 27, 2020 7:23:43 GMT avurai said:

*spits out drink and trips*

*MY EXACT REACTION*
WHAT WHAT IN THE WHAT!?!?!?

[arkadi]

What chills me in this page is Kat's total lack of reaction when Annies tell her that the robot she's been building is the one that saved her all those years ago. Lack of surprise would be expected, since she had probably figured it all out already; but up to this point that would still be just a theory, and you'd expect her to be more excited to have that theory confirmed.

My guess: Kat is well aware of the darker implications (and complications) of this whole thing, and isn't at all pleased.

[arkadi]

May 27, 2020 7:11:48 GMT Gotolei said:

Interesting to think that the Court wasn't able to make anything of "them" (other than "it's one of those birds"), seems like Kat's made a robot architecture completely separate from what the Court uses? You'd think they'd have some kind of identifying signal otherwise. If they could track Tony to the ends of the Earth but get stumped by a robot made by one of their own... whew.

Also kind of neat how the bird ends up dying once (presumably) it's confirmed that Annie was saved in the fall. Looping time travel machine or not, at least it cleans up after itself (or cleans up itself, rather).

Well, Anja pretty clearly states that they have never managed to get their hands on a Tic Toc, so even if they used Court tech, they couldn't know. 

[ellies]

May 27, 2020 7:50:15 GMT philman said:

What if method that Kat is using to send the tictocs back in time is by using Zimmy somehow? Kat was intimately involved in The Torn Sea where she saw the robots manipulate Zimmy into distorting time and space for their own means. What if she took that idea, refined it, and has been using Zimmy without her knowledge to send the Tictocs back in time? It would also explain why the TicTocs are often around Zimmy, and why she hates them so much.

I wonder if it's actually Kat's divine powers. Kat becomes a legend, a god that could control time. Now, like the gods putting the stars in the sky, god-Kat exists before she is created. She has powers in the present because people in the future think she does, and the ether manifested it.

[csj]

She knew

[avurai]

May 27, 2020 8:14:04 GMT ellies said:

May 27, 2020 7:50:15 GMT philman said:

What if method that Kat is using to send the tictocs back in time is by using Zimmy somehow? Kat was intimately involved in The Torn Sea where she saw the robots manipulate Zimmy into distorting time and space for their own means. What if she took that idea, refined it, and has been using Zimmy without her knowledge to send the Tictocs back in time? It would also explain why the TicTocs are often around Zimmy, and why she hates them so much.

I wonder if it's actually Kat's divine powers. Kat becomes a legend, a god that could control time. Now, like the gods putting the stars in the sky, god-Kat exists before she is created. She has powers in the present because people in the future think she does, and the ether manifested it.

The Zimmy connection also makes sense of why Zimmy hates looking at Kat and is terrified of her. The visual of Kat’s ethereal form as Zimmy sees it must signify something in the longterm, and there’s likely a reason it’s mechanical.

Not to mention what this means when the robots call her angel. It is Robot’s doing, but there must be something more here narratively. If Kat can pull robots through time, and can help ascend their consciousnesses, then she is in a sense an angel. She is beyond time and beyond baseline cognition.

Man, this is just buck wild.

[Anthony]

My guess is that the "original" Annie fell from the bridge and died. Since chapter 8 Annie we know is actually Annie from the alternate timeline.