[1532] That went quite well!

[fish]

This page answers one, maybe two questions:

• Whom did Annie call down from the ceiling? Her fire element.
• How does the haircut affect her etheric form? That's how.

But it raises 20 new ones:

SPOILER: Click to show

• Is the fire element a sentient being completely independent from Annie now?
• Was the haircut essential the the separation process or just symbolic? Or both?
• And if it's not just symbolic, did the same happen to Surma when she cut her hair back in the day?
• Since Annie's clothes are not grey, she has no cut on her face and the fire element has no crown/fire spike symbol, we can assume this is not the ether; does that mean there is a literal fire in Annie's room right now?
• Would someone not affected by the ether, like Kat, Anthony or Jones for example, see the same thing we do observing this scene?
• The fire is forming a circle around Annie. Is that a conscious command on her part or is it an effect of the separation?
• Is the separation permanent or temporary? (I'm thinking/hoping it's temporary.)
• Annie's "Everything's Going According To Plan™ Smirk" is rather unsettling. Whom is she trying to deceive here?
• Is it Anthony? That would be the obvious answer.
• But she has been so cold towards Kat lately. Is she trying to mislead Kat in some way?
• And what was it that "went well"? "Father didn't scold me today" or "Father doesn't suspect anything, yet"?
• Is she just happy her coping mechanism works? Or is she actually up to no good?
• Will the cut in her fire-hair disappear once her hair has grown longer?
• Will her hair suddenly grow longer once she merges with the fire again?
• In "Divine" her fire element was holding The Mask. Now it is not and instead Annie wears The Mask almost constantly. Did she separate the mask from the fire element maybe?
• Is the fire element angry? Or just eager to be a part of Annie again?
• Is the fire element's mood a representation of her bottled up anger and fury towards her father?
• Is Annie keeping the fire element in her room whenever she goes to class?
• If the answer is yes, what is this fiery part of her doing all day long?
• And most importantly: is it Monday, yet?!

edit: more quetions

• How hot is that fire? It looks pretty hot; is it commanded not to burn anything?
• I wonder about the sound in this scene. Does it sound like Annie is surrounded by flame throwers? Fwhhhh!

[csj]

Jun 26, 2015 7:01:53 GMT Chancellor said:

I THINK WE'VE ALL BEEN TAKEN ON A RUSE CRUISE AND ANNIE IS PILOTING THE SHIP.

you could say it's a






tom cruise

[Sadie]

Whoa, wow! Props to all those who guessed it! I was... rather hoping it wasn't going to specifically be the fire elemental, actually. Annie popping her spirit out of her body to cope isn't a fully positive way to manage her emotions, but it at least implies a temporary state.

This, with the cut ring of hair around the fire elemental's head, the clearly delineated circle between her and Annie-in-body, those clenched firey-eyes and curled claw-hands, all seems really permanent and unwanted.

The big thing giving me doubts over this being a plan on Annie's part is her room. The fact that it was commented on no less than twice in-comic means that there's a very good reason for it to be so huge and empty, and more than one commenter on the forum noted that it would be a great place for Annie to practice some serious fire bending. Now, here, we have a largely disembodied fire elemental seething flames in all directions.

Anthony was the one responsible for giving her that dorm room, which leans heavily toward him having a prosthetic hand in what lead to this situation.

[ctso74]

Jun 26, 2015 7:53:13 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jun 26, 2015 7:25:37 GMT Chancellor said:

HODANG, JUST READ THE /CO/ THREAD.

WHAT IF SHE USED COYOTE'S TOOTH TO CUT OUT HER FIRE ELEMENT AND NOW IT'S A NEW AND SEPARATE ENTITY LIKE SHADOW?

Then she's I believe she's screwed. She'll get weaker and eventually expire. The tooth should be with Renard. So I'll guess that's not what happened.

She cut her hair between class with her father and when Kat came to see her. She could have used the Tooth, before telling Rey to be quiet. I don't think it's the case, though. Rey would know what she did, and I don't think he'd be obligated to keep the secret from Kat. Also, I'm guessing a cut from the Tooth might be permanent, and Surma showed us how that narratively turns out.

I originally thought Tony might want the Tooth for "surgery". The thought of Annie doing it herself is awfully close to cutting (and deeply disturbing). Comments have mentioned anorexia, in regards to Annie saying things went "quite well", but cutting might be a better analogy. We know she'll eventually die without her Fire. The two of them probably tend to merge back. If she's separating her Elemental side on purpose, she may need to redo it. If so, how often is she redoing this?

[speedwell]

I don't know, everyone. Some good theories floating around here. I just don't know.

What hits me is that if Annie is in Annie's body, and the fire elemental is separate from her but is still her, I just don't think she would need to call reassuringly up to get the fire elemental part of herself to come down.

Instead, I think the fire elemental is ALL of Annie but her body, and someone is wearing her body as a mask. I am thinking as one such possibility that she and Renard have figured out some arrangement where she can etherically leave the body for him to take, thus bypassing the weakness in Renard's body-snatching powers that kills the true tenant of the body when he exits. After all, we have never seen him use his power in a body that was voluntarily and temporarily vacated by an entity capable of re-entry.

Less dramatically, it could be that some other shapeshifter is copying Annie's form, and Annie herself is just staying in fire elemental form in order to make it easier for her to hide. Zimmy has "become" Annie before, for example, and could potentially make "shadow copies" like the ones in "Zimmingham". We note from other pages that the shadow copies can act and speak until they are dispelled.

[smjjames]

Jun 26, 2015 15:00:39 GMT speedwell said:

I don't know, everyone. Some good theories floating around here. I just don't know.

What hits me is that if Annie is in Annie's body, and the fire elemental is separate from her but is still her, I just don't think she would need to call reassuringly up to get the fire elemental part of herself to come down.

Instead, I think the fire elemental is ALL of Annie but her body, and someone is wearing her body as a mask. I am thinking as one such possibility that she and Renard have figured out some arrangement where she can etherically leave the body for him to take, thus bypassing the weakness in Renard's body-snatching powers that kills the true tenant of the body when he exits. After all, we have never seen him use his power in a body that was voluntarily and temporarily vacated by an entity capable of re-entry.

Less dramatically, it could be that some other shapeshifter is copying Annie's form, and Annie herself is just staying in fire elemental form in order to make it easier for her to hide. Zimmy has "become" Annie before, for example, and could potentially make "shadow copies" like the ones in "Zimmingham". We note from other pages that the shadow copies can act and speak until they are dispelled.

You'd think Rey would want to test that first before actually trying that on Annie. As far as he knows, his body snatching power kills the host (if you will) on exit every time, 100%.

Besides, Rey is in Tonys house, so it can't be Rey and the range that he can jump is limited by his own physical vision....

*just had a thought*

What would happen if Rey jumped into something that was blind? I don't mean eyeless, I mean sightless. Then again, the wolf toy pretty much already answers that I think.

[hnau]

If we assume that we see the equivalent of a Multiple Personality (or DID), communication between the personalities is a step towards re-integration.

[nero]

I agree that it seems that the fire elemental can't touch Annie and is angry at her. I don't know who is responsible for the separation but this isn't the Annie we know anymore. The human one had her personality become twisted. The fire elemental holds all her anger, and it should be a part of Annie's conscious. She's always been independent but I don't see her friends forgiving her so quickly. You are giving them and all the readers so much to worry about. Her plan involves making it seem like she only changed because of Anthony. She steps back and will watch how things go down between Anthony and the Donlans. While she gets ready to leave them behind, perhaps even leave the forest behind.

[fish]

Jun 26, 2015 15:22:49 GMT nero said:

I agree that it seems that the fire elemental can't touch Annie and is angry at her. I don't know who is responsible for the separation but this isn't the Annie we know anymore. The human one had her personality become twisted. The fire elemental holds all her anger, and it should be a part of Annie's conscious. She's always been independent but I don't see her friends forgiving her so quickly. You are giving them and all the readers so much to worry about. Her plan involves making it seem like she only changed because of Anthony. She steps back and will watch how things go down between Anthony and the Donlans. While she gets ready to leave them behind, perhaps even leave the forest behind.

That is an interesting point I didn't think of before. Maybe she is happy about somebody finally making attempts to find out more about her father, something she can't do herself, it seems.

[jda]

Idea: use Coyote's tooth to separate them and set a Match:
FireElemental & MechaKat
VS
Jeanne

[jda]

I think.the circle of no-fire goes trough from some of the first chapters, when she helped the ghost kid on the hospital so he could go with a Psychopomp.

[sherni]

OK, just what the hell happened here?!

This page is an even worse cliffhanger than the last one. And a chapter end, no less! We won't get the next page until Wednesday! AAAGGHHH!!

I was actually elated when I saw this page. Annie is smiling! She's looking happy and confident and so much like her old self! But then I began to wonder just what it means if she has separated the Fire from herself. And just how did she do that? Did she do it at all? And as others have pointed out, the Fire Elemental doesn't look too happy. But it did come down when she called it, so does that mean that it is now a separate sentient being? Is it angry at Annie, or her (their) father? Or is it under her control?

I don't think I can wait until Wednesday.

[fish]

Jun 26, 2015 15:42:13 GMT jda said:

Idea: use Coyote's tooth to separate them and set a Match:
FireElemental & MechaKat
VS
Jeanne

I was reminded of this particular fanart.

[justcurious]

Jun 26, 2015 14:53:56 GMT ctso74 said:

I originally thought Tony might want the Tooth for "surgery". The thought of Annie doing it herself is awfully close to cutting (and deeply disturbing). Comments have mentioned anorexia, in regards to Annie saying things went "quite well", but cutting might be a better analogy. We know she'll eventually die without her Fire. The two of them probably tend to merge back. If she's separating her Elemental side on purpose, she may need to redo it. If so, how often is she redoing this?

Tony does not know anything about the tooth. No one in the forest except Coyote knows. Inside the Court only Annie, Kat Parley, Smith, Robot, Shadow and Renard know.
Similarly Jeanne has been deliberately forgotten by the Court. It's hard to know what Coyote knows, Probably not much if anything. Inside the court only those mentioned above plus the robots know. Jones has an inkling but not most of the story. Outside the Court and the Forest the Psychopomps and the Realm of the Dead know.
People are forgetting what the Court does not know.

[fish]

Jun 26, 2015 15:51:01 GMT sherni said:

[...]

This page is an even worse cliffhanger than the last one. And a chapter end, no less! We won't get the next page until Wednesday! AAAGGHHH!!

[...]

Bonus page on Monday.
Title page on Wednesday.
No next page until Friday, I'm afraid.

[darklingthrush]

I agree with those who are a bit worried.

None of this seems healthy. If I had to guess, she was so angry with her father she separated her elemental self to stay in control. But that amount of emotional packaging seems deeply unhealthy. Like a self-lobotomization.

I could be completely wrong. A lot of stuff is afoot that I clearly have no clue about. But the fire elemental is a part of herself, and for it to be cut and separated away from her for any reason does not bode well, in my opinion.

[Gulby]

... Ooooor... A child is the combination of two DNAs, father's and mother's, right ? In real world, we never split like that. But in the Gunnerverse, and more precisely in Annie's case, maybe the Annie we've seen through this chapter is the father's side, while, as we already know, the fire elemental part is Surma's side. That means that both ARE Annie, actually, but they gained individuality.

[karl]

On the thread for the last page there was all sorts of speculation about who or what will be in the room with Antimony. I was especially amused by the then-crackpot theory of it being Antimony's fire-elemental. Haha, such fools, you can't separate Antimony from her fire-elemental, I though.

I guess I'm the fool now.

I'm also guessing that fire-elemental and Antimony are not fully separated and they do share some sort of a permanent connection even now. If not, then why couldn't Surma do it when she had Antimony? Did she miss the timing or is the process not-that-simple? Also what exactly did Antimony do to achieve this? I don't think just a haircut is going to cut it - after all we've seen Surma with short hair and she probably had her elemental inside or near her then (the elemental was definitely inside Surma when she had Antimony and that was after the short-haired time).

Here is my theory - Antimony's fire elemental lives inside her hair (not sure if that was true for Surma though). The elemental we're seeing here is the hair she cut off. On those last two pages she is "with all her hair" and hence all together. Confident and in control. And on the bonus page she is going to play basketball with the fire elemental who is still unfortunately unnamed.

[sapientcoffee]

So, Annie is (biblical) Sampson?

[Per]

Jun 26, 2015 15:58:07 GMT fish said:

Bonus page on Monday.
Title page on Wednesday.
No next page until Friday, I'm afraid.

Then suddenly: City Face 4.

Jun 26, 2015 13:34:54 GMT smjjames said:

... pages and nobodys realized that ...

Nope, wrong. How come nobody's ever right when they post something like this?

[Sadie]

Coming back here just to fling all my thoughts and doubts in the other direction of my previous post --

Someone in the page comments pointed out how confident and self-assured Annie looks in this page, and another thought she looked cruel.

I was suddenly reminded of her behavior toward Jack in "Faraway Morning", where in order to get revenge, she pretended to like him just so she could emotionally gut-punch him at the key moment. Moreover, this act of manipulation was performed while she had her hair tied back, and prior to issuing a genuine apology, she untied and shook it free. She also didn't think twice about letting Kat, her most trusted friend and confidant, assume she liked Jack, either.

Antimony, we've seen, reacts with EXTREME prejudice to male figures she thinks are trying to control her (re: her fit over Mort giving her the Blinker Stone), or who harm/threaten Renard (Eglamore, Jack) or abandon her (Jack). Her father is pretty much the embodiment of all three issues, and undoubtedly the source and cause of them in the first place.

If her "that went quite well, I think!" isn't born of massive denial of how the evening really went, then it could be in reference to a long-game she's playing. Prevent her intense anger and true nature from lashing out, let everyone see her as the meek, accommodating, obedient daughter so that they're on her side and Anthony Carver just digs himself deeper and deeper into the hole of his one jerkish making. Beg for the scraps of his approval so that at the exact moment he finally gives them, she can just look back at him and go "I don't think I like you very much". Finally hurt him with the same thing that he's hurt her with for years. A strange idea of revenge, indeed.

Of course, this still leaves my initial question about the room open.

[fwip]

Jun 26, 2015 17:20:56 GMT Sadie said:

[see previous post]

Good greif.  The worst part is that this seems plausible to me, mostly because of the hair up/down thing...  If this is what Annie's doing, she certainly drew the forumgoers in.

[brilliantgrey]

She's gonna make it I think

[Sky Schemer]

I WAS RIGHT.

SPOILER: Click to show

[Refugee]

The zone around Annie reminds me of this, in the story about Annie volunteering to help Martin choose between psychopomps.

===

The elemental is not Annie's spirit, I think. She (I take the elemental to be a she) is a separate etheric being, possibly a parasite rather than a symbiont. She may be angry, yet Annie still commands and constrains her. Or she is a symbiont, Annie's actions have freed her as well as Annie, and she is now angry on Annie's behalf. She does not embrace Annie too closely because she does not wish to burn her former host.

Or Tom could have something else entirely up his pencil case.

In any event, I think this is pretty great.

===

To answer several folks answering my comment about Annie not being a victim: I could have phrased that better. Tom's story is not about Annie being a victim. Her Father may be everything people say he is, but Annie has her own strengths, her own goals, and her own plans. Her Father's treatment of her may be one of the trials she has to overcome along the way, but she is not the sort to let someone like him define who she is.

She is not an anorexic. She may be starved in certain ways, but she focuses on what she can do nevertheless, not on what is being done to her, and when she looks at herself, she sees a being of great power. Imprisoned, perhaps, but not helpless, and perhaps not as closely shackled as her Father would like to think.

Anthony may be trying to victimize her, but she refuses to let him make her a victim. She's not beaten yet.

[Refugee]

Jun 26, 2015 17:20:56 GMT Sadie said:

If her "that went quite well, I think!" isn't born of massive denial of how the evening really went, then it could be in reference to a long-game she's playing.

A long game indeed, and a subtle one.

[fish]

Regardless of all the questions, the positive and the negative implications this page raises, I'm just giggling with excitement looking at Fire-Tamer-Annie and thinking about Donny's last quote: "There are some things even he can't control".
s

Edit: Around the cut the fire-hair has almost the same colour as Annie's actual hair. And the fire element's expression looks more pained than angry to me. I hope the haircut didn't hurt her too much...

[artemis]

I signed up for this forum because of this page. So here's my theory.

A lot of people are saying Annie did something to sever herself, that she's plotting against her dad secretly, etc. I don't think that's the case. I think her father did this to her, and that her rebellious attitude, sassiness, etc. are currently removed from her and in the fire elemental.

If we remember back to the chapter when Annie was in the hospital after randomly losing consciousness, when Zimmy went into her subconscious, something that looked like a fire elemental was trapped in bone-like spires. When Zimmy followed the spires, Anthony was on the other end.

I think Anthony has been plotting ways to remove the fire elemental from Annie so she doesn't die like her mother did. He failed the first time, but I think this was his second attempt and that he succeeded. I think that's why she's so complacent and distant, because this part of herself has been ripped out of her.

It felt like as the story was progressing, Annie was becoming more and more like her mother (who also had the fire in her): strong-willed, attitude, a little conceited. But now she's regressed to be more like she was at the very beginning of Gunnerkrigg Court: very docile, very quiet. And I think she was like that then because she had recently been living under her strict father, so now she's back to how she was because of his influence AND because the part of herself that was like her mother is gone.

My theory doesn't explain why it seems she's keeping the fire being secret from her father. But I think "That went quite well, I think" refers solely to the fact that she was a good girl today and stayed on her father's side and was well behaved. The fire elemental looks like she's in so much pain, that I don't think she and the current Annie are cooperating. I don't know.

Since this theory doesn't really explain everything, I'm still open to the idea that Annie somehow did this to herself. But I don't think it's coincidence that Anthony tried this before.

[ctso74]

Jun 26, 2015 15:57:46 GMT justcurious said:

Jun 26, 2015 14:53:56 GMT ctso74 said:

I originally thought Tony might want the Tooth for "surgery". The thought of Annie doing it herself is awfully close to cutting (and deeply disturbing). Comments have mentioned anorexia, in regards to Annie saying things went "quite well", but cutting might be a better analogy. We know she'll eventually die without her Fire. The two of them probably tend to merge back. If she's separating her Elemental side on purpose, she may need to redo it. If so, how often is she redoing this?

Tony does not know anything about the tooth. No one in the forest except Coyote knows. Inside the Court only Annie, Kat Parley, Smith, Robot, Shadow and Renard know.
Similarly Jeanne has been deliberately forgotten by the Court. It's hard to know what Coyote knows, Probably not much if anything. Inside the court only those mentioned above plus the robots know. Jones has an inkling but not most of the story. Outside the Court and the Forest the Psychopomps and the Realm of the Dead know.
People are forgetting what the Court does not know.

I'm not sure why you focused on an old theory invalidated 10 weeks ago, about Tony and the Tooth. The above was brought up then. Perhaps, I wasn't clear enough. My bad.
My point was, many of us were convinced he had come to finish his surgery. It would seem terrible, if it turns out she did it herself. Whether she used the Tooth or not, it seems to me to be a supernatural version of cutting yourself.


Now, I'm wondering if Anthony came back, because he thought the "Bone Lasers" were a success. Due to her ruse, maybe he still does.

[Sky Schemer]

Jun 26, 2015 19:49:05 GMT ctso74 said:

Now, I'm wondering if Anthony came back, because he thought the "Bone Lasers" were a success. Due to her ruse, maybe he still does.

I'm not sure I'd count any surgery that gets interrupted with a punch to the face and the loss of a hand as a success, but maybe my success indicators are different than yours.