|
|
Post by arf on Jun 26, 2015 12:22:25 GMT
Now that I've gotten over the relief at seeing that Annie still has a level of volition, I join with a few others in wondering at the significance of all this.
- what has caused the separation?
- how is it helping Annie cope?
- how has it affected Annie's personality?
- what is she working towards?
- what are the long-term consequences?
(Is the bonus page going to reveal Anthony arriving home to perform the same ritual? ...Agh! Ninjaed!)
|
|
|
|
Post by sable0aria on Jun 26, 2015 12:28:52 GMT
I don't even know why I am even trying to guess anymore, but Ysengrin was teaching her about her fire elemental side. This may just be something Annie is able to do safely, if only temporarily. So super wild guess that is probably going to be wrong, but maybe Annie is using her hair, and blinkerstone(I don't think we've seen it since the hair cut.) in combination to keep her fire safe/keep herself from getting over emotional around her father?
I would like to add, I am seriously worried this could have negative consequences, possibly severe ones for Annie later.
|
|
|
|
Post by justcurious on Jun 26, 2015 12:29:52 GMT
Wild Mass Guessing time: Anthony tested the same process on himself before returning to cut the elemental off Annie. He is so detached and emotionless because he cut off the part of his soul where his higher emotions reside. And he hadn't yet perfected it, hence the physical scars and missing hand. No, he was this detached in what we've seen of him in flashbacks and in the chapter on the parents when they were in school. Probably severe Asperger's Syndrome or something similar. And from the cut through the elemental's hair this in something that Annie did to her self for reasons that we are speculating on now. |
|
|
|
Post by Incoherrant on Jun 26, 2015 12:33:12 GMT
Wild mass guessing time (not sure if anyone else had same idea): The fire elemental is more of the Annie that we know than the Annie is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alexandragon on Jun 26, 2015 12:44:31 GMT
F* YEAH! So, now Annie is evil mastermind which is behind all this. P.S.: So, Fire is half-separate from Annie. But her Fire is part of her soul, isn't she? I'm half-expecting her to cross her fingers and say "just as planned..." right now. +1 |
|
Bill
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
|
Post by Bill on Jun 26, 2015 12:52:48 GMT
What I want to know is whether the elemental is coming in for a hug or a fusion. Can't say I have the slightest idea what the bonus page will be about.
|
|
arzeik
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by arzeik on Jun 26, 2015 13:03:01 GMT
So, I have to say that the fire protection in the Court's facilities is pretty deficient. That many robots and all that advanced technology and they didn't even think of installing some sprinklers. No wonder they made even more terrible mistakes such as creating Boxbot.
|
|
dreki
New Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by dreki on Jun 26, 2015 13:05:30 GMT
Mmm, yes. Because someone reacting with rage, or crafting some kind of plan to fix the issue means they weren't a victim of abuse. May I snort right back?  Nevermind that this seriously seems like dissociation/splitting herself in two: which is definitely a side-effect of being abused and could be really bad. "Victim" doesn't mean weak. And don't forget that this started when she was a child: most toddlers aren't known for their mental fortitude. We still don't know for sure what's going on. Most survivors of abuse are strong people- some of them got dealt bad hands (raised by abusive parents, like Annie), others just got roped in by a masterful manipulator. Unlike Tony, a lot of abusers are very charismatic people- they convince you that the abuse isn't happening/that you deserve it, and convince everyone around you that they're so great they couldn't possibly be abusive. This way, if you try to reach out for help, you get shot down because no one can imagine that person could possibly be abusive- and probably like them better than you. We really don't know what it means to be separate, if personality becomes split in two, if she gets "weak" if she is away from other part for too long. If she gets pregnant, then her kid may still get the fire portion and she may slowly die. Wait a minute. Surma died because she passed the fire elemental part of herself onto Annie, or after it was removed from her body. So what happens to Annie if the fire elemental part of her is removed? Couldn't, theoretically, the same thing happen to her anyway even if the reason she lost the elemental part of herself was different? A few people are wondering that. And the elemental looks pissed/fractured (the face looks like it's got cracks in it, and that's a @#$@ton of fire) Good grief, I forgot to check the update tonight and then WHOA NELLY I'm not sure that the fire elemental is pissed. It's tough to tell with only the eyes. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=820 reference. Pay more attention to the difference between 820 and today. Yes- it's face is just eyes, but in 820 the face is smooth and pretty much in one piece. A straight line bifurcates it, but that's it. In today's page, there are cracks/lines of some sort going up from the eyes and across the forehead. It's also not just the eyes: it's also pose and fire. Also see: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1259 Again, no cracks. The fire in both 820 and 1259 also seems a bit more controlled, while in today's page it looks more out of control. And the pose in today's page is menacing. The hand behind her is in a stressed pose. If we didn't know this was Annie's fire elemental, I'd think that it was about to grab her. nope  So you're both so obsessed with sex that you see absolutely nothing wrong with perverting the loving quasi-paternal emotional bond between a fox and a young girl for no reason beyond satisfying your own voyeuristic carnal urges. Great. Maybe keep that to yourselves. I also don't see why this is much worse than Renard's desire for Surma. Yes, there was no quasi-paternal bond there, but how old was Surma when they first met? Surma was likely quite young, hopefully over 18 but not necessarily. Yes, she was able to manipulate him- but he was still a very powerful creature, and a fox, going after a young human(ish) girl. Also, shipping is often not just about "voyeuristic carnal urges". Most of the pairings I ship, I'm much more interested in the emotional interplay than anything sexual. I can definitely see finding Renard and Annie a very sweet couple that you just want to see snuggle together because you think they'd make each other happy. If they'd met when she was older- he's sweet and cares about her. Not perfect, but no one is. And she has a good influence on him, I think. I don't ship it, personally. Renard clearly considers himself a father-figure to her. Very squicky to me. Perhaps in a decade or so comic-time, their relationship will have grown and it'll stop being so squicky- but right now? Nope. |
|
erro
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by erro on Jun 26, 2015 13:12:25 GMT
 What. What?What!?WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE!? |
|
|
|
Post by smjjames on Jun 26, 2015 13:17:30 GMT
So, I have to say that the fire protection in the Court's facilities is pretty deficient. That many robots and all that advanced technology and they didn't even think of installing some splinters. No wonder they made even more terrible mistakes such as creating Boxbot. LAUGHING ON LINE on typo! Also, someone on another forum (the GC thread over on Bay12 to be specific) said that it resembles the 'spirit made of rage' face that Jeanne has. Edit: This one www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=778 |
|
|
|
Post by scottjm on Jun 26, 2015 13:26:52 GMT
Anyone else think the "went quite well" is referring to it looking like the donlan's are on her side, so she knows she is not alone. The idea that Annie separated the fire elemental out merely by giving herself a haircut must be one of the looniest theories I've seen gain traction here ... I think her watching Coyote extract the spirits of the animals who were becoming human is probably also a factor. We see him show her once, but there were probably more over the summer, and she might have at least partially learned how it works, in hopes of figuring out how to not die when she has a kid of her own (we all know how badly that knowledge hit her) It is entirely possible that Coyote saw something like this coming (a major emotional attack by the court, probably in an attempt to shift control of Renard to someone who will use him as a tool/slave for the courts ends rather then be his friend) and showed her something to let her handle/cope with whatever they did. |
|
|
|
Post by smjjames on Jun 26, 2015 13:34:54 GMT
4 pages and nobodys realized that the OP is missing the comic number, heh. I didn't notice until someone made a new thread on the same topic which correctly has the page number.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jun 26, 2015 13:36:49 GMT
HODANG, JUST READ THE /CO/ THREAD. WHAT IF SHE USED COYOTE'S TOOTH TO CUT OUT HER FIRE ELEMENT AND NOW IT'S A NEW AND SEPARATE ENTITY LIKE SHADOW? whoa, thank you for the new wildspec... Hm now I've written an over-sentimental novel of a comment for little to no reason other than having had a sad moment in response to a picture on the internet. Fantastic. No shame in that; that's what forum are for, haha! I think the lesson we must learn from all this is that Antimony is still Antimony, no matter how much under her father's thumb she may appear to be. I think we need a LOT more pages before we could assert that. We don't even know if the Fire Elemental was okay with this. We do know, however, that even her father cannot dominate her completely. unless this is his plan, of course.Wildspec: The Ether doesn't work on silly 'rules'. It runs on bullshit symbolism. I don't think that's wildspec, honestly. Mmm, yes. Because someone reacting with rage, or crafting some kind of plan to fix the issue means they weren't a victim of abuse. May I snort right back? Nevermind that this seriously seems like dissociation/splitting herself in two: which is definitely a side-effect of being abused and could be really bad. , even assuming that Annie did this entirely voluntarily (which still needs confirmation), it's damaged her relationship with Kat and with Renard. She could be making plans AND be abused, you know. Pay more attention to the difference between 820 and today. Yes- it's face is just eyes, but in 820 the face is smooth and pretty much in one piece. A straight line bifurcates it, but that's it. In today's page, there are cracks/lines of some sort going up from the eyes and across the forehead. It's also not just the eyes: it's also pose and fire. To me, it looks like the Fire Elemental was always wearing a mask (possibly representing Tony's moderating influence?) and this is what it looks like without it. Something is still very wrong, even though this page seems positive on the whole. Also, shipping is often not just about "voyeuristic carnal urges". Most of the pairings I ship, I'm much more interested in the emotional interplay than anything sexual. I can definitely see finding Renard and Annie a very sweet couple that you just want to see snuggle together because you think they'd make each other happy. If they'd met when she was older- he's sweet and cares about her. Not perfect, but no one is. And she has a good influence on him, I think. I don't ship it, personally. Renard clearly considers himself a father-figure to her. Very squicky to me. Perhaps in a decade or so comic-time, their relationship will have grown and it'll stop being so squicky- but right now? Nope. Seconded. For me, a relationship between Rey and Annie would be very strange-bordering-on-creepy at the moment. Given a LOT of in-comic time for it to develop that way, it could be so, so cute and sweet. That being said, I'm pretty sure Tom has jossed that. Wild Mass Guessing time: Anthony tested the same process on himself before returning to cut the elemental off Annie. He is so detached and emotionless because he cut off the part of his soul where his higher emotions reside. And he hadn't yet perfected it, hence the physical scars and missing hand. My guess is something along these lines as well. No, he was this detached in what we've seen of him in flashbacks and in the chapter on the parents when they were in school. Not as much as he is now. Back then, he at least was open with Donny in private. I would like to add, I am seriously worried this could have negative consequences, possibly severe ones for Annie later. Seconded. I'm also worried that Annie's good personality came from the *fusion* of Tony's cold with Surma's warmth, and that the Fire Elemental alone will be just as bad in the opposite direction. I don't know man, I'm almost getting the vibe of an anorexic looking in the mirror and being happy at how many ribs s/he can count. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY We've moved into Gainax Territory now, my friends. I'm not unhappy about it, but I am very confused. And I still won't forgive Anthony yet without much more explanation, and possibly not even then. ((Also, Blitz, please add the page number in the thread heading when you have a few seconds.)) |
|
|
|
Post by youwiththeface on Jun 26, 2015 13:37:19 GMT
Well, all we can be sure of is that Annie is not as much beaten down and under her father's control as it appeared she was. I'm not sure of that myself. For all we know this is all of Tony's design. Maybe he's figured he can't completely separate Annie from her elemental self without killing her, so this is a sort of compromise. Also remember that Tony was the one who arranged for her to live here; this may be the purpose of the room. |
|
|
|
Post by Deepbluediver on Jun 26, 2015 13:39:17 GMT
Aww man, I was SO certain it was going to be robots.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gulby on Jun 26, 2015 13:40:20 GMT
I CALLED IT ! I CALLED IT ! \O/
|
|
|
|
Post by basser on Jun 26, 2015 13:44:27 GMT
So you're both so obsessed with sex that you see absolutely nothing wrong with perverting the loving quasi-paternal emotional bond between a fox and a young girl for no reason beyond satisfying your own voyeuristic carnal urges. Great. Maybe keep that to yourselves. I also don't see why this is much worse than Renard's desire for Surma. Yes, there was no quasi-paternal bond there, but how old was Surma when they first met? Surma was likely quite young, hopefully over 18 but not necessarily. Yes, she was able to manipulate him- but he was still a very powerful creature, and a fox, going after a young human(ish) girl. Also, shipping is often not just about "voyeuristic carnal urges". Most of the pairings I ship, I'm much more interested in the emotional interplay than anything sexual. I can definitely see finding Renard and Annie a very sweet couple that you just want to see snuggle together because you think they'd make each other happy. If they'd met when she was older- he's sweet and cares about her. Not perfect, but no one is. And she has a good influence on him, I think. I don't ship it, personally. Renard clearly considers himself a father-figure to her. Very squicky to me. Perhaps in a decade or so comic-time, their relationship will have grown and it'll stop being so squicky- but right now? Nope. If you just want to see them snuggle together then why in god's name would you need to "ship" it? He is literally her plush toy. Hugs literally happen. There's absolutely no reason to drag romance into what is already a sweet and touching bond of love within the canon universe. And really that's the main problem I have with the entire concept of shipping. Beautiful, loving relationships exist in all forms of media. Yet the "shippers" will insist on perverting each and every one of them into their own (often deeply flawed and/or horrifyingly pornographic) ideas of what love should look like. What's wrong with just appreciating loving canon relationships for what they are? What need is there to take an expertly crafted literary dynamic and hacksaw it into some appalling literotica stereotype of romance? Not even to mention how hugely offensive and disrespectful the entire practice is to Tom. Also I don't super understand why you'd want to jump to defend someone whose idea of appropriate contribution to discussion was to flippantly insinuate a sexual relationship between a young girl and a canine. |
|
|
|
Post by Fishy on Jun 26, 2015 14:03:13 GMT
I noticed that the flames seem to be forming around Annie in a way specifically indicating the elemental side is either trying to burn Annie, but cannot, or is specifically going out of its way to keep from burning Annie.
I really don't know how to take any of this. It could be good or bad either way.
|
|
|
|
Post by hnau on Jun 26, 2015 14:09:48 GMT
Obviously, the consequences will be revealed over the next 500 or 1000 pages.
But there is one more question that needs to be asked: Where is the rest of her hair and what is it doing now?
|
|
arzeik
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by arzeik on Jun 26, 2015 14:12:27 GMT
So, I have to say that the fire protection in the Court's facilities is pretty deficient. That many robots and all that advanced technology and they didn't even think of installing some splinters. No wonder they made even more terrible mistakes such as creating Boxbot. LAUGHING ON LINE on typo! Yeah, I had already realised and edited it. Joke's on me, anyway. That's what happens when you try to be funny in a language that's not your mother tongue. |
|
Kuraimizu
Full Member
Master Librarian
Posts: 177
|
Post by Kuraimizu on Jun 26, 2015 14:17:59 GMT
to those confused
Annie has decided to separate her spirit from her body
as she learned from the fairy students.
her body is basically running on auto pilot
with the basic form of her personality sans emotion
her actual soul on the other hand is staying home
and as you can see the anger is just building up.
the problem is as she isn't venting her emotions
she is creating a feedback loop of pure anger and hate
basically she is turning into something similar to
Jeanne of the annan waters.
her soul is becoming anger/hate incarnate.
and as a fire elemental, she could cause a lot of damage.
if she doesn't vent how she is actually feeling
she will end up doing something she'll regret.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lightice on Jun 26, 2015 14:18:38 GMT
No, he was this detached in what we've seen of him in flashbacks and in the chapter on the parents when they were in school. Probably severe Asperger's Syndrome or something similar. I know that he was detached in school, but not to this degree. He still did something besides sit in silence when he was alone, had (few) friends, and during Annie's early childhood he spent time with her trying to be a decent parent, aloof as he was. The way he is currently is like a massive exaggeration of his original state, not something that's normal to him, as Donnie's exasperation pretty clearly shows. Something, whatever it is, is not right with Mr. Carver. All jokes aside, a piece of his soul being missing would be an excellent scenario, especially now that we see it's possible to accomplish. |
|
pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
|
Post by pasko on Jun 26, 2015 14:19:09 GMT
So THAT's what she did in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1503. When she drastically changes face, becoming emotionless. Remember that Kat cannot see any of these processes. |
|
|
|
Post by smjjames on Jun 26, 2015 14:20:19 GMT
LAUGHING ON LINE on typo! Yeah, I had already realised and edited it. Joke's on me, anyway. That's what happens when you try to be funny in a language that's not your mother tongue. It's okay, I thought it was something that spellchecker did. |
|
|
|
Post by justcurious on Jun 26, 2015 14:21:56 GMT
People are suggesting that Tony was trying to separate the elemental part from Annie. I think it may have been the opposite, that he was trying to bind it into her so that it cannot leave if she has a child. When the elemental part left her Surma died so cutting it out of Annie does not seem to make sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by pxc on Jun 26, 2015 14:24:02 GMT
A few thoughts, maybe just for myself to collect them. This is a pretty bewildering page. But welcome. Page after page of Annie getting stomped on, Tony being terrible, Kat letting her good intentions interfere with her friendship, the Donlans and other adults being impotent, etc. We finally get something exciting! - I don't buy that Annie is just fine, and has some secret plan. I tend to agree with the "anorexic girl counting her ribs" comment. - Fire Spirit is not happy. That's a rage face, as someone else said. Look.   Furthermore, Fire Spirit's hair is cut too. The pose is aggressive. And Annie seems to have a protective barrier around her keeping FS away. None of this seems like some sort of partnership. - If FS isn't happy, but Annie seems so unaware or uncaring, I'm wondering even more about her emotional and mental state. I don't think this is good for her. Then again, neither is harboring a semi-immortal fire spirit that will kill her if/when she has a child. But the fact that she's keeping Kat and others out of the loop, and doesn't seem remotely bothered by the growing rift between her and Kat, is concerning. This page is not some victory for Annie. It doesn't erase the isolation, humiliation, and warped perspective she's demonstrated thus far. This is her plunging deeper, toward rock bottom. Or maybe she's already hit and this is her digging even deeper. - I absolutely agree she used Coyote's Tooth to do the cutting. Makes perfect sense. - I remember her urging ParSmit to ask Coyote and Ysengrin to be patient. How long has she been planning this? Asking for patience would seem to indicate that she still intends to interact with them in some way, which doesn't seem to fit with a lot of other things this story appears to indicate. So much still to be answered. |
|
Bill
Junior Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by Bill on Jun 26, 2015 14:36:04 GMT
Wait... why were Annie's eyes closed?
Her fire is clearly in the material world. And if she was communicating with it via ether, why would she need to verbally tell it that the coast is clear?
|
|
|
|
Post by darlos9d on Jun 26, 2015 14:38:29 GMT
A few thoughts, maybe just for myself to collect them. This is a pretty bewildering page. But welcome. Page after page of Annie getting stomped on, Tony being terrible, Kat letting her good intentions interfere with her friendship, the Donlans and other adults being impotent, etc. We finally get something exciting! - I don't buy that Annie is just fine, and has some secret plan. I tend to agree with the "anorexic girl counting her ribs" comment. - Fire Spirit is not happy. That's a rage face, as someone else said. Look. Furthermore, Fire Spirit's hair is cut too. The pose is aggressive. And Annie seems to have a protective barrier around her keeping FS away. None of this seems like some sort of partnership. - If FS isn't happy, but Annie seems so unaware or uncaring, I'm wondering even more about her emotional and mental state. I don't think this is good for her. Then again, neither is harboring a semi-immortal fire spirit that will kill her if/when she has a child. But the fact that she's keeping Kat and others out of the loop, and doesn't seem remotely bothered by the growing rift between her and Kat, is concerning. This page is not some victory for Annie. It doesn't erase the isolation, humiliation, and warped perspective she's demonstrated thus far. This is her plunging deeper, toward rock bottom. Or maybe she's already hit and this is her digging even deeper. - I absolutely agree she used Coyote's Tooth to do the cutting. Makes perfect sense. - I remember her urging ParSmit to ask Coyote and Ysengrin to be patient. How long has she been planning this? Asking for patience would seem to indicate that she still intends to interact with them in some way, which doesn't seem to fit with a lot of other things this story appears to indicate. So much still to be answered. Yes, so many darn questions, so few answers. I just stared at this page confused. I'm definitely on board with the notion that this is NOT some indication of Annie actually being completely fine and in control. And, as usual with me, it's for purely narrative reasons. If she's suddenly perfectly okay, then that completely deflates 90% of the drama that's been going around regarding her and her dad. That'd be lame. She NEEDS to be emotionally troubled right now, for the story to be effective. |
|
|
|
Post by smjjames on Jun 26, 2015 14:39:26 GMT
Maybe it's angry because she left it without fuel to consume and so, it's hungry?
|
|
Kuraimizu
Full Member
Master Librarian
Posts: 177
|
Post by Kuraimizu on Jun 26, 2015 14:40:28 GMT
I wonder, why does she refer to the night going well?
is she referring to the fact that the Donlans tried to stand up for her?
or to the fact that none of them have noticed
she has effectively lobotomised the face she is showing the world
while her true self descends into madness.
|
|
