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Post by fwip on Apr 6, 2015 15:05:42 GMT
3. Maybe Annie already set Rey free and Anthony is in for a surprise. This seems improbably, but it does allay one fear. The "okay" did not transfer control to Anthony. Either the system does work that way and Renard was freed the moment Annie told Renard that she would allow him to return to the forest, or the system requires more than a vague verbal acknowledgement to transfer control and Annie has time to come to her senses (and hopefully release Renard as soon as possible so that he won't be used as a bargaining chip against her. Although, release inside the court would probably eventually just result in recapture.) |
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 6, 2015 15:19:46 GMT
No. Just no. Tom has placed Annie in a situation where she can only obey completely or disobey somehow. Since the comic can't continue with her being robotically and flawlessly obedient, clearly the only question we are left with is how and when she will disobey. Yup. No simple "okay, but it will backfire" variants. Even if Anthony has absolute power over Antimony, he doesn't have power over Kat at all. Especially since the Donlans can and will stand up to him, probably even in Annie's case. Also, there was the whole class performing Deathglare Array. They only need an excuse to start an untold crapstorm. That extra page after Mort said "See ya" only with Antimony sitting in the empty class, alone - that is what will happen if she does not say anything to voice her complaints. To whom exactly, and what "voice her complaints" could possibly accomplish? |
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unrequited
Junior Member
Tormentor of the Heart, close friend of the Spleen
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Post by unrequited on Apr 6, 2015 15:22:43 GMT
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quark
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by quark on Apr 6, 2015 15:34:08 GMT
Even if Anthony has absolute power over Antimony, he doesn't have power over Kat at all. Especially since the Donlans can and will stand up to him, probably even in Annie's case. Also, there was the whole class performing Deathglare Array. They only need an excuse to start an untold crapstorm. I'm looking forward to that. So, so much. That extra page after Mort said "See ya" only with Antimony sitting in the empty class, alone - that is what will happen if she does not say anything to voice her complaints. To whom exactly, and what "voice her complaints" could possibly accomplish? It's a magical world, and Reynardine is bound by her words. She can release control, or transfer it to Anthony. On a more 'real' topic: those who care about her need to know what happens - they may guess that a suddenly quiet or withdrawn Antimony has something to do with her father returning, but even Kat doesn't know everything. People who don't know her that well may think she would just prefer to spend time with him after she hasn't seen him that long instead of guessing that he isolates her from everybody. They may just leave her alone. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Apr 6, 2015 15:39:42 GMT
Wake up Annie, please wake up...
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 6, 2015 15:52:10 GMT
This is how I think it to work too. But to what extent does that really transfer the custody? Rey has to obey Annie because of being trapped in a doll with her symbol on it. If they do not change that, then would that transfer be cancelled simply by Annie saying so again? So that Anthony would only be in control of Rey because and as long as Annie says so? But if he can gain the full control that is independent of Annie upholding it for him, then this makes very much sense for the cover page of the treatise 6, where Rey and Annie are standing on different sides. I have been wondering whether Rey would stay in Court if Annie jumped on the other side, but it may be that he has no choice. Well, the role of the symbol is interesting. Rey does say that the contract exists because of the Antimony symbol, but it is also established that the main reason he is under Antimony's control is because the doll is hers.. So is it enough that Annie gives the doll to her father? "It's now yours." But it's the symbol that establishes the doll as Antimony's. So maybe the most she can do is just say that "You have to obey my father", other would count as taking the doll from her and setting Rey free. Anyway, I think that the "okay" was enough to do anything it does, but that remains to seen, too. The magic is instant: right before Annie ran to the Forest, Rey couldn't say things that were false as soon he had heard the truth. (+ 1 point for "after Annie said okay, Rey is now Tony's") However, he apparently had to first to hear it before the "can't lie" clause would apply, so he apparently could say things that were untrue if he didn't know better. (+1 for "Annie must tell him first". Or maybe it suffices that Tony just comes and says "Annie gave you to me", but until Rey doesn't know, he doesn't have to obey Tony.) (In other words, that would mean we also couldn't use him as an tool to revolutionize theoretical mathematics just asking things like "is the Riemann hypethesis true". Dang.) Also, we don't know if Annie or Tony know all the intricacies of the deal that was made when Rey entered the body, and even if Annie would know, she isn't exactly currently thinking straight. Maybe if Annie says "I give this doll to my father" or maybe even this "okay" she already said, it actually nullifies the ownership contract and sets (or already set) Rey free, unbeknownst to Annie and Tony. Ans anyway, Tony just lowered himself to the level of taking her daughter's plushie that her mother made for her (maybe didn't take by force, but by persuasion and intimidation). Even if the transfer is valid, Rey is going to call him out on that. I always read it so that it was the symbol that established that meaningful ownership. However, I recall that Hetty's owner passed on the ownership of her doll to her younger brother who did not even know about it, and apparently didn't Hetty either before she found out that she's still trapped in the doll. So, maybe it's just like that. However, Tony has not requested the "plushie", but Rey. One way to perform the transfer would be that Annie commanded Rey to take control of a doll with Anthony's symbol on it. Wonder what that would be... imaginaryfriend proposed one possibility.  |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 6, 2015 15:52:35 GMT
God, this comic was painful to read. Annie doesn't even think of not complying. It is painful to watch, yes. I like Annie, I don't like Anthony. Annie's Father (you'll notice I haven't been calling him her "Dad") is causing her considerable distress. I wish that didn't have to happen. I wish Annie had not been cheating and plagierizing and in general running around like she owns the place, because if she hadn't, her Father probably wouldn't be isolating her from possible bad influences--i.e., her circle of friends. I am shaking my head here. Annie is stronger than that. She is defined by her character, and not by the people she has collected around her. I must disagree. Annie's greatest strength is making friends out of enemies. Bingo. Bingo exactly. She will get through this. She will not lose contact with, at least, her human friends, including Eglamore and the Donlans, plus Wandering Eye, Robot, and Shadow, and whoever the rabbit turned into. Her Father has, after all, not forbidden contact with them; he has only moved Annie back a year, and provided new housing. She will, in addition, make new friends among the Eighth year students. If, that is, she can keep from using her size and age to lord it over them, and I personally have absolutely no doubt she'll fall intoavoid that trap. She has been humbled, and needed that badly. Finally, there is one important "enemy" she can use her, ahem, people skills on, a dictatorial control freak known to the world as Her Father. That is the crucial test: Will her resentment lead her to evade him? Or will her fundamental good nature, something that goes far beyond the people skills so beloved of human resource managers, lead her to make amends with her Father? To earn his respect, if not his love and affection. |
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Post by lunaleaf on Apr 6, 2015 15:57:56 GMT
Annie! I never wanted this for you, mate. I knew this page was coming, but I was hoping you'd show a little spark when it came down to this moment. Don't allow yourself to be isolated- it's not healthy for you. Not to mention how important it is for Reynard to be free of court influence. D':
If Rey gets hurt from this...
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 6, 2015 16:05:42 GMT
3. Maybe Annie already set Rey free and Anthony is in for a surprise. This seems improbably, but it does allay one fear. The "okay" did not transfer control to Anthony. Either the system does work that way and Renard was freed the moment Annie told Renard that she would allow him to return to the forest, or the system requires more than a vague verbal acknowledgement to transfer control and Annie has time to come to her senses (and hopefully release Renard as soon as possible so that he won't be used as a bargaining chip against her. Although, release inside the court would probably eventually just result in recapture.) If Rey can posses Anthony in private and makes no hostile threats towards the Court, would anyone really know? And if some knew, would they keep a secret? I like the idea of Rey possessing Anthony and taking his place as Annie's father, but I know Rey won't be able to teach Year 10 Biology. So I don't know how he could keep up appearances for long. The theory that this is a nightmare, or the effect of another etheric assault on Annie, is probably more realistic. |
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Post by juxander on Apr 6, 2015 16:06:07 GMT
I wonder if Headmaster Jonathan/the court is behind this. They have tried to remove Annie from the forest and take Reynard before (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1155). Jones speculated that Surma worked for the court due to Anthony's influence on her, which would not make it unreasonable to conclude that Anthony is loyal to the court and still serving the court's goals.
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 6, 2015 16:07:41 GMT
No, the transfer of custody won't happen until Annie tells Reynardine to obey her Father. This is how I think it to work too. But to what extent does that really transfer the custody? Rey has to obey Annie because of being trapped in a doll with her symbol on it. If they do not change that, then would that transfer be cancelled simply by Annie saying so again? So that Anthony would only be in control of Rey because and as long as Annie says so? But if he can gain the full control that is independent of Annie upholding it for him, then this makes very much sense for the cover page of the treatise 6, where Rey and Annie are standing on different sides. I have been wondering whether Rey would stay in Court if Annie jumped on the other side, but it may be that he has no choice. To my mind, this gives a suggestive evidence that the Court may have called Anthony back, because they have already twice tried to get Rey from Annie, and in the end, it was as simple as this when they just got some authority to take him from her - the Headmaster also claimed he didn't want Annie to be the Forest medium, which I doubt was honest, but if it was, again, this would have been a good plan. Anyway, this fits that storyline (Anthony was away on Court mission and now called back) quite perfectly. However, I wonder how much Anthony is an independent agent. This is all a guessing game, but if, as it has seemed, the Court has not been aware of his doings (although we know hardly anything about what the headmaster or "the Court" knows), but he has still been in Court's service somehow, he might be somewhat unreliable agent for them, someone they have to turn to in order to get their plans advanced, but who also uses them to advance his own plans. And so, a possibility remains that even if he's playing for Court now, he is not really in their control and may betray their plans at some point. So, this is not necessarily the optimal way for the Court to gain the control of Rey. Why would the headmaster's desire that Annie not be the forest medium not be honest? He made a point of saying, after giving Smitty the job as Court medium, that Annie would not need to go to the forest anymore. That seems like a big indicator that the dude does not want Annie hanging out there for any reason, so being the forest medium (a job that requires Annie to frequently travel to the forest) would logically be something he wouldn't want. And I don't see why Anthony would be someone they'd have to turn. Jones says he never had patience for things that didn't fall into a scientific category. And Renard, remember, is the forest creature that took over a man's body (eventually killing him) to court the woman he ended up marrying. A creature who is now in the possession of his daughter, and spends a great deal of time with her, the way he did with Surma in the forest. Depending on how Anthony took that whole thing, he might not have needed any excuse or any convincing at all to take up the job that would put Renard under control of the court. Now that I think about it...considering Surma apparently used her wiles to manipulate Renard...is it possible she never loved Anthony, either? Was she using him because she wanted a kid, and she thought maybe that if anyone could let her do that and maybe not die in the process it would be him? Tony still doesn't know about the Coyote Tooth. Stabby doom, Annie. Stabby doom time. I'm wondering if Anthony lost his hand because he carried a similar binding, either from Coyote or a similar being. I'm thinking he was given an order that he regarded as unethical and refused to carry it out. If it were something like that (and not something that happened to him because of the bone surgery) I'd bet money on it having to do with his apparent control issues. He might've just had to do things his way and, well... I did enroll. I had a chat with my academic advisor last month. He said, "Your grades are among the highest I've seen for a first-year. Your essays could have been written by an Industrial-Age philosopher. Why did you not go into engineering when you were in your 20s?" I told him why. He swore like only an Irishman can swear. He said my father was a fool, a jerk, and several of the other nice things we've been saying about Anthony. Every one of his curses fell on my spirit like rain on a wheat field in July. I needed so badly for someone to finally fight in my corner. I'm going to fight in yours now. I'm going to tell you what someone should have told me all those years ago: Your father is wrong. Your father has a worldview colored by his expectations for you that he has not re-evaluated since you were young. Your father's opinions are only that, his opinions. They are hurtful opinions and he is wrong to hold them. You are an adult. I'll say that again; you are an ADULT. You are absolutely entitled to--REQUIRED to--meet him as his equal, and when it comes to your dreams and hopes, his superior. He does not have the right to issue orders anymore. His lack of respect for you must not translate into your lack of respect for yourself. No other adult who cares about you would belittle you or your dreams. I wouldn't even think of doing so. When your father, or another adult upon whom you depend (like your boss, your spiritual leader, or another authority figure), issues you an order, take two seconds to think, "They are not perfect. They could be wrong. They are expressing their opinion based on what they think is right. They have their own reasons for doing so." What is true? (You have the right to evaluate reality for yourself.) What is right? (You have the right to evaluate morality for yourself.) What do I want? (You have the right to decide this for yourself, and the right to change your mind.) What sort of treatment do I deserve? (Respect and kindness, at minimum.) You are the most beautiful kind of person. Thank you for writing that. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 6, 2015 16:33:03 GMT
I told my father many times that I wanted to be an engineer. He would respond, "you're too talented to give up your music". That is not yet the situation Annie is in. This is happening because Annie violated a fundamental rule of ethics. She has for years now taken the easy way out instead of doing the hard work, and she's apparently been misbehaving in other ways. She's not being punished because she's pursuing academic goals her Father doesn't approve of, but because she's fallen into bad habits and bad company. And that is well within the purview of parents and teachers, and deserves strong, unpleasant discipline. Once again, this scene and its immediate consequences have not played out, nor do we know what Mr. Carver's been doing since Surma's death, or what was happening in "Divine", or how much approval he has from the Court (I bet lots). Annie's cheating threaten her friend Kat--we still have to see how Kat feels about Annie, once she gets past her anger at Mr. Carver. (And I bet anything that part of her anger with Mr. Carver is really anger at Annie that she can't quite face.) I am not looking forward to what the Donlans think about that--they could well back up Mr. Carver and forbid Kat to hang out with Annie, because Annie's a bad influence on their daughter. For all we know, Reynardine will be waiting in Annie's room ready to go with her Father because he, too, disapproves of what Annie's been doing. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 6, 2015 16:38:20 GMT
This is how I think it to work too. But to what extent does that really transfer the custody? Rey has to obey Annie because of being trapped in a doll with her symbol on it. If they do not change that, then would that transfer be cancelled simply by Annie saying so again? So that Anthony would only be in control of Rey because and as long as Annie says so? But if he can gain the full control that is independent of Annie upholding it for him, then this makes very much sense for the cover page of the treatise 6, where Rey and Annie are standing on different sides. I have been wondering whether Rey would stay in Court if Annie jumped on the other side, but it may be that he has no choice. To my mind, this gives a suggestive evidence that the Court may have called Anthony back, because they have already twice tried to get Rey from Annie, and in the end, it was as simple as this when they just got some authority to take him from her - the Headmaster also claimed he didn't want Annie to be the Forest medium, which I doubt was honest, but if it was, again, this would have been a good plan. Anyway, this fits that storyline (Anthony was away on Court mission and now called back) quite perfectly. However, I wonder how much Anthony is an independent agent. This is all a guessing game, but if, as it has seemed, the Court has not been aware of his doings (although we know hardly anything about what the headmaster or "the Court" knows), but he has still been in Court's service somehow, he might be somewhat unreliable agent for them, someone they have to turn to in order to get their plans advanced, but who also uses them to advance his own plans. And so, a possibility remains that even if he's playing for Court now, he is not really in their control and may betray their plans at some point. So, this is not necessarily the optimal way for the Court to gain the control of Rey. Why would the headmaster's desire that Annie not be the forest medium not be honest? He made a point of saying, after giving Smitty the job as Court medium, that Annie would not need to go to the forest anymore. That seems like a big indicator that the dude does not want Annie hanging out there for any reason, so being the forest medium (a job that requires Annie to frequently travel to the forest) would logically be something he wouldn't want. This has been discussed plenty before, do a search on the forum, or check the page threads. The point is, Coyote and Jones are both calling him out for his game not recognizing what it is. If he was playing a game of some sort, hiding something, well, guess what: his words may have not been honest! Oh my, he couldn't ever have lied, could he... It could well have been a trap for Coyote (who could obviously do the opposite than what Headmaster seems to want) to take Annie to be the forest medium so the Court would have the mediums of both sides from their side. Obviously, if Anthony's command to Annie to get out of the Forest was part of his plan too, then Annie's Forest mediumship was not planned. We know very little of headmaster's intentions. And I don't see why Anthony would be someone they'd have to turn. Jones says he never had patience for things that didn't fall into a scientific category. And Renard, remember, is the forest creature that took over a man's body So, I repeat my words a little bit differently: They tried to get Rey from Annie, and failed. Anthony tried, and succeeded. I let you do the math on where they needed Anthony. Hope it goes bit better this time. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 6, 2015 16:44:57 GMT
Wake up Annie, please wake up... I kinda think that's exactly what her Father is trying to do--wake her up from the complacency she's fallen into. === Now we get a closeup of Mr. Carver's face. Those aren't just age lines, he's scarred. Cut on his lip, yeah, I got that. But the bridge of his nose, and a long scar down the side of his face...I suspected, but now it's clear. If Zimmy did that damage, via a link to his daughter, he's got damn good reason to want to isolate her from her friends, at least until he has a chance to find out what's going on with her. |
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Post by Eversist on Apr 6, 2015 16:52:52 GMT
I wonder if the makeup was protecting her somehow from Anthony's influence, and that's why he had her take it off at the beginning of class.
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Post by ih8pkmn on Apr 6, 2015 17:10:55 GMT
Just like that, a decade of character development, gone.
And yes, it seriously has been a decade. Gunnerkrigg Court's first page was uploaded April 4th, 2005. So, happy anniversary? Yaaay?
If this is Tom's idea of a Tin Anniversary, I'd hate to see what he would do for the Crystal or Silver anniversaries.
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quark
Full Member
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Post by quark on Apr 6, 2015 17:11:56 GMT
God, this comic was painful to read. Annie doesn't even think of not complying. It is painful to watch, yes. I like Annie, I don't like Anthony. Annie's Father (you'll notice I haven't been calling him her "Dad") is causing her considerable distress. I wish that didn't have to happen. I wish Annie had not been cheating and plagierizing and in general running around like she owns the place, because if she hadn't, her Father probably wouldn't be isolating her from possible bad influences--i.e., her circle of friends. I must disagree. Annie's greatest strength is making friends out of enemies. Bingo. Bingo exactly. She will get through this. She will not lose contact with, at least, her human friends, including Eglamore and the Donlans, plus Wandering Eye, Robot, and Shadow, and whoever the rabbit turned into. Her Father has, after all, not forbidden contact with them; he has only moved Annie back a year, and provided new housing. She will, in addition, make new friends among the Eighth year students. If, that is, she can keep from using her size and age to lord it over them, and I personally have absolutely no doubt she'll fall into that trap. She has been humbled, and needed that badly. She has a lot of difficulties relating to her classmates. Remember when they wouldn't even ask her to make fire with her blinker stone, but instead asked Kat? At the beginning, she was very withdrawn and Kat brought her out of her shell; being separated from Kat would very likely make her retreat again. She needed to be called out for her behaviour, ages ago. She didn't need to be humbled, she needed help. As previously stated, I'm not sure if she ever got a formal education at all, since the only courses she's doing her own work in are things she could have picked up in the hospital, and somebody - her teachers, the Court needed to figure out the reasons for her behaviour and stop it. There's also the 'new housing' - she already moved in with Kat, so why force her to move out again? She can't copy Kat's work anyway, so why not let her live with a highly smart friend who could (and would) tutor her? There is no reason except that he wants her distanced from her friend. Finally, there is one important "enemy" she can use her, ahem, people skills on, a dictatorial control freak known to the world as Her Father. That is the crucial test: Will her resentment lead her to evade him? Or will her fundamental good nature, something that goes far beyond the people skills so beloved of human resource managers, lead her to make amends with her Father? To earn his respect, if not his love and affection. I'm sorry - a parent who thinks their love and affection and respect has to be 'earned'.. doesn't deserve that kind of effort. They don't deserve that kind of consideration, actually. They have to earn the love and respect of their child, when they have treated them that badly. A parent does not own a child. They have the privilege of showing the way, of preparing another human being for the world outside, show them how it works and help them as well as they can. And then letting them go their own way. Nothing, none of that has been offered by Anthony. He is barely a father; he withdrew all love and affection and presence from his daughter the moment her mother died. How would he expect her to find a moral compass? How would he expect her to know fairness? He knew all about her while remaining absent, and will not give her any information on him. How would he expect her to deal with her fire elemental side? Or choose her friends? He could have told her what happened, all about Ryenardine, why her mother died, what would happen to her. She had to rely on herself and herself only to figure those things out, of course she doesn't trust authority figures. |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 6, 2015 17:16:48 GMT
This seems improbably, but it does allay one fear. The "okay" did not transfer control to Anthony. Either the system does work that way and Renard was freed the moment Annie told Renard that she would allow him to return to the forest, or the system requires more than a vague verbal acknowledgement to transfer control and Annie has time to come to her senses (and hopefully release Renard as soon as possible so that he won't be used as a bargaining chip against her. Although, release inside the court would probably eventually just result in recapture.) If Rey can posses Anthony in private and makes no hostile threats towards the Court, would anyone really know? And if some knew, would they keep a secret? I like the idea of Rey possessing Anthony and taking his place as Annie's father, but I know Rey won't be able to teach Year 10 Biology. So I don't know how he could keep up appearances for long. The theory that this is a nightmare, or the effect of another etheric assault on Annie, is probably more realistic. Outsource his procedural and declarative intelligence to Boxbot, then put Rey in his body, overwriting his personality. Problem solved! Ethically justifiable, no. Satisfying, yes. Next day: "HELLOOOO, class!" |
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Post by Freedomfiend on Apr 6, 2015 17:17:18 GMT
Nope. That's not the real Anthony. However, I also don't believe this is a dream sequence. Instead, I think that's some sort of doppelganger that took the rough visage of her father to catch her off guard, and has been focusing on isolating her to prevent her or anyone else from realizing what it's doing.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 6, 2015 17:26:11 GMT
As it goes for the idea of Rey possessing Anthony and secretly becoming her new dad, there's two things that make me conclude such aren't likely.
First, Rey's personal objections. After Quicksilver, I get the impression that even if given the opportunity, even in spite of how much he probably still hates the guy, I doubt he could bring himself to take Another life through possession, even if he beat Carver fairly in some way or another, as he had with Sivo.
Secondly, if the flashbacks relating to his possession of Daniel are to be trusted, possessing a human would leave some physical warping, not to mention the difficulty that must ensue in any attempt to mimic Anthony well enough to avoid notice.
Hell, thirdly is the probable reality that even if Annie snaps out of it and sees daddy for the jank, broken down Jackwagon he is, it's certainly not in her displayed nature to just accept the KILLING of Anthony as a solution, and I don't think Rey would be able to do that to her.
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Post by puntino on Apr 6, 2015 17:37:25 GMT
I say the least I want to do to this guy is punch him.
LIKE, A WHOLE TERRITORIAL LOT.
I'M SO ANGRY JFC
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Post by Refugee on Apr 6, 2015 17:38:18 GMT
I'm sorry - a parent who thinks their love and affection and respect has to be 'earned'.. doesn't deserve that kind of effort. Love, yes, a parent should give that unconditionally. Respect, though, is meaningless if it is not earned. Look at what I said: "To earn his respect, if not his love and affection." That is, if Annie's Father has no love or affection for her, she can at least earn his respect. That would be tragic, but it might be all he's capable of. |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 6, 2015 17:40:16 GMT
Paging zimmyzims to defend this amazing and perfect father who is clearly doing nothing wrong and why would any of us be worried. Paging zimmyzims. Here you go: zimmyzimsSpoilered for length: Sweetheart, I'm 48. My father was an engineer and I was also the artsy type. He was totally behind me going to school to be a musician. It fit with his idea of me being ladylike and cultured and decorative. I had piano lessons as soon as I was tall enough to reach the keys and literate enough to understand the note names and read a staff. My curse was that I was gifted at it. Now you're thinking, why was that a curse? Because I didn't want to be a pianist. I wanted to be an engineer like Daddy; I wanted to solve problems with machinery and make things that lasted and that other people would associate my name with every time they used... if you asked me at the time, I would say I wanted to make stuff. That's creativity, too, and my father was a gifted inventor but denied his creativity.
I told my father many times that I wanted to be an engineer. He would respond, "you're too talented to give up your music". Or, he'd say, "your mother and I bought you that grand piano and years of lessons and you want to throw it away now". Or, he'd say, "don't be ridiculous, you're only saying that because you think I go to work for fun". When I was 17 and considering universities, he said the thing that broke my spine. "You're not enough of a b*tch to be an engineer." In other words, he was saying he didn't respect me enough as a person to admit me to the sacred fraternity of People To Take Seriously. He was making light of my intellect and my ability to relate to people. What I should have said was, "Well, goddamn it, you're my father, teach me to be a b*tch." What I actually said, Antimony-like, was, "Oh." And I went on to fail... fail at being a pianist because it wasn't what I wanted to do... fail at work because my heart wasn't in it... fail at relating to people because I was told I wasn't able to stand up for myself.
When I was 35, I was a temp. The agency sent me to be the office manager for a small office consisting of an engineer and his sales guy. The engineer had a college-age daughter who was studying to be a doctor in a prestigious university. He told me I had an engineer's mindset and I should think about becoming an engineer. "Oh, no, Mr. Jankiram, but thank you very much for saying so; it really means something that you should say so." After the contract was over, I was next sent to be the assistant for an engineering department of a large corporation. "You really get it. You love this stuff," said the staff engineers. "Thanks, guys, I love working with you," I would say. I became a trainer for engineering software. I travelled around the world. The managers would all say, "You understand this. You love it. Why did you never become an engineer?" I would say, "Well, I am grateful that you think I get along well with you. Do you really think I would have made a good engineer?"
My father died. I worked with a therapist who helped me understand that my father's opinions died with him. But his opinions had become my opinions for 30 years and I just didn't know what other opinions to have. I was laid off from my job last year. My husband told me I should take some of my severance pay and go to school to be an engineer. "Oh, I couldn't do that. We need the money and it's not realistic," I said. His response was unprintable and ended with, "You WILL follow your dream or I will lose my respect for you." I did enroll. I had a chat with my academic advisor last month. He said, "Your grades are among the highest I've seen for a first-year. Your essays could have been written by an Industrial-Age philosopher. Why did you not go into engineering when you were in your 20s?" I told him why. He swore like only an Irishman can swear. He said my father was a fool, a jerk, and several of the other nice things we've been saying about Anthony. Every one of his curses fell on my spirit like rain on a wheat field in July. I needed so badly for someone to finally fight in my corner.
I'm going to fight in yours now. I'm going to tell you what someone should have told me all those years ago: Your father is wrong. Your father has a worldview colored by his expectations for you that he has not re-evaluated since you were young. Your father's opinions are only that, his opinions. They are hurtful opinions and he is wrong to hold them. You are an adult. I'll say that again; you are an ADULT. You are absolutely entitled to--REQUIRED to--meet him as his equal, and when it comes to your dreams and hopes, his superior. He does not have the right to issue orders anymore. His lack of respect for you must not translate into your lack of respect for yourself. No other adult who cares about you would belittle you or your dreams. I wouldn't even think of doing so. When your father, or another adult upon whom you depend (like your boss, your spiritual leader, or another authority figure), issues you an order, take two seconds to think, "They are not perfect. They could be wrong. They are expressing their opinion based on what they think is right. They have their own reasons for doing so." What is true? (You have the right to evaluate reality for yourself.) What is right? (You have the right to evaluate morality for yourself.) What do I want? (You have the right to decide this for yourself, and the right to change your mind.) What sort of treatment do I deserve? (Respect and kindness, at minimum.) All of the respect. All of it. I respect you so much for your decision to not let your (dead) father's choices define yours, and to choose to change who you are now to become what you want to be. That's inner strength most of us will never have, or may never develop. attiem, you can do the same, eventually. Your choices are your own - you're an adult. But don't let those small actions of resistance and independence you spoke of become something you put off until tomorrow and tomorrow and... ...it's certainly not in her displayed nature to just accept the KILLING of Anthony as a solution, and I don't think Rey would be able to do that to her. Although your other points are quote correct (he couldn't fool anyone) and Annie wouldn't kill him, I don't agree with the portion in red. Quoth Tom: |
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 6, 2015 17:40:52 GMT
I told my father many times that I wanted to be an engineer. He would respond, "you're too talented to give up your music". For all we know, Reynardine will be waiting in Annie's room ready to go with her Father because he, too, disapproves of what Annie's been doing. That flies in the regal face of every sensible notion we have about Reynard. Least of all considering his surely still boiling contempt for the man, in all of the time since he transitioned from half comical sorta charming comic relief/half somewhat serious threat to someone who genuinely cares for Annie and has served as something of a role model, have you seen anything that indicates he would consider going into the custody of Carver (who sure as hell isn't going to let him see her again) as the best way to show his disapproval? If he felt leaving her was the only way to snap her out of the cheating streak, would he not capitalize on Annie's assurance that she'd let him leave to the forest, where at least he'd be able to see her if he desired when she was in the forest as well? And you'll note that among the reasons he declines her offer of freedom is because he sees himself as having the role of watching over her. Considering his feelings for Anthony, that's not a duty he's just going to happily relinquish to him. |
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Post by buzzybuzz on Apr 6, 2015 17:41:10 GMT
Oh my god I hate Anthony.
Waiting for the next update is going to kill me.
Also for those saying that the last couple panels prove dream, it doesn't. Tom has used this before to show mental state, look at when she ran to the forrest after her fight with Reynardine.
Just ugh Anthony..... fuck him.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 6, 2015 17:43:38 GMT
DaedalusEep, that's rather ominous now with currently unfolding events.
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 6, 2015 17:45:15 GMT
DaedalusEep, that's rather ominous now with currently unfolding events. I specialize in ominous. Have you read my theory? |
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 6, 2015 17:47:00 GMT
DaedalusEep, that's rather ominous now with currently unfolding events. I specialize in ominous. Have you read my theory? Which one? |
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karl
New Member
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Post by karl on Apr 6, 2015 17:49:19 GMT
That extra page after Mort said "See ya" only with Antimony sitting in the empty class, alone - that is what will happen if she does not say anything to voice her complaints. To whom exactly, and what "voice her complaints" could possibly accomplish? To the person she is talking to right now - her father. What I mean by "voice her complaints" is to stop accepting the "punishments" being given out. Although they will likely be overruled, it will at least be a step forward. Yes, "voicing her complaints" was a poor choice of words (should have been "protests" or something. Need to look at the dictionary) likely caused the misunderstanding and for that I apologize. "No, father, I have duties in the forest that I cannot just abandon" seems like a reasonable protest and "I would prefer to keep my ownership of Renard however I could give you custody of him" would seem like a reasonable compromise. Repeating a year is a normal punishment (or a consequence) for cheating, moving out seems to be pushing it but since it seems there is no other choice, well fine. I can understand the rationale in stopping her from going to the forest - more study time, which she definitely needs, but taking away Renard? What would that achieve? Less distractions from a creature that says "your homework is shambles"? Way more than just a punishment. And it seems like most of the conversation had been steering towards it (or maybe it was just another item in his mental checklist of "things I need to set Antimony straight on"). |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 6, 2015 17:52:16 GMT
Paging zimmyzims to defend this amazing and perfect father who is clearly doing nothing wrong and why would any of us be worried. Paging zimmyzims. Here you go: zimmyzimsPaging thelaurent to do some background work before roaming around with straw men on both hands. |
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