Miri
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Posts: 211
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Post by Miri on Mar 25, 2015 14:58:43 GMT
I'm still holding out hope for a Tree of Tears-fruit-driven hallucination here. The cartoonish evil as the first sign of Anthony since...well, in the present storyline, /ever/...is just a little too abrupt.
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Post by machival on Mar 25, 2015 15:07:43 GMT
Did anyone bring up the point of Anthony's message in Microsat 5? It looks like he was getting surgical tools. Do you think his hand could have been...uh...gone (for lack of a better word) by then? And if you look closely at the pic of Zimmy punching Anthony in Divine, you can see a blood stain on the side of his jacket-thing and also no hand. Interesting no? In short, I don't think Zimmy is responsible for the missing hand. (Also a bit of devil's advocate here: has anyone considered the possibility that Anthony is autistic? I see a lot of hate towards him in the comments, but autistic people have difficulty expressing emotions and considering the feelings of others etc. Sure he's a total Lord Farquaad, but maybe that could explain his behaviour?) I doubt he's on the autism spectrum. Honestly his character comes off as being a lot like gendo ikari of NGE. Even the circumstances are similar, with both characters having wives who were killed by the power of metaphysics, an only child they've abandoned and act coldly towards, and mad science ambitions. Hell, they both even have fucked up right hands. There's also the surprise other characters express at who they married, with eglamore unable to understand why surma chose Anthony and fuyutsuki surprised by yui choosing gendo. |
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Post by xtinas on Mar 25, 2015 15:14:07 GMT
Exactly. It is only after she states it the second time that he starts to look annoyed. Annie should get her act together. If he was able to just that easily talk about things that he experienced during his leave, maybe he would have also mentioned some in a post card. That he never sent a one might signal something. is the adult here, and who is the teenager? |
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Post by fwip on Mar 25, 2015 15:18:20 GMT
Can't wait to see this finish playing out. I'm not sure about Anthony, but I'm leaning towards "is actually a total ass"
*removes Anthony Supporter from his signature and status*
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Post by xtinas on Mar 25, 2015 15:20:59 GMT
I believe I may be Team Kat in this. Yes, he's Annie's father. He is also being a douche, to his daughter, in public. There may be explanations for his behaviour, but there's no excuse, and I find that distinction to be rather meaningful.
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Post by November on Mar 25, 2015 15:37:43 GMT
No cookies yet, please! Not until we know if it's burned and/or bony! |
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Post by mordekai on Mar 25, 2015 15:50:40 GMT
The loss of the hand may explain why he's Mr. Carver instead of Dr. Carver now. Tough to be a surgeon with a prosthetic hand, If he can't be surgeon he should be able to dedicate himself to another branch of medicine. He would have to study to bridge specialties, but he doesn't look like the man that would leave medicine to avoid some academical study. though the Court might be able to do something about that and that may offer an alternate explanation on why he's back. Although, a new hand might be the bribe that got him back to rein in Antimony or something, since the two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive. If they brought him to rein in Antimony, he's doing an awful job at that. Every person, furry, shadow or robot who cares for Annie will encourage her to not to care what he says. Just to be a contrarian I'll mention that one theory I've had on where Anthony Carver has been all this time... at a Doctors without Borders or similar volunteer outpost. I understand...Was he stealing organs from poor children? Or maybe he has adquired a taste for human flesh and went to a place where corpses could be easily taken without nobody noticing? Because I don't think the went there to help people, honestly. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 25, 2015 15:55:52 GMT
Oh, there is something with his hand. I thought he just liked to keep it in his pocket.
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werrf
New Member
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Post by werrf on Mar 25, 2015 16:14:33 GMT
I'm rather puzzled.
When has any adult in the Court turned out to be exactly what they appeared at first sight? Everyone is playing wheels within wheels, schemes within plans - why should Anthony be any different when he finally appears?
There must have been something Surma saw in him, after all, and it's hard to imagine that whatever that was is totally gone. I suspect that for whatever reason, he's deliberately driving Annie away, sacrificing his relationship with her for her good. What good that may be, we can't say yet: perhaps he never wanted her in the Court to begin with, but couldn't openly break with them by not sending her there after Surma died; Perhaps he needs her closer to Coyote for some reason; Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.
It just seems that in a story as subtle and layered as this, taking the surface reading of what's going on is a little...short-sighted.
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Post by wombat on Mar 25, 2015 16:22:01 GMT
At least we got to see the hand. Well yes and no, we now know he wears a glove. True, I meant as opposed to cutting away to Kat in the hallway or something for that panel while still getting the same dialog. |
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Post by calpal on Mar 25, 2015 16:24:07 GMT
Did anyone bring up the point of Anthony's message in Microsat 5? It looks like he was getting surgical tools. Do you think his hand could have been...uh...gone (for lack of a better word) by then? And if you look closely at the pic of Zimmy punching Anthony in Divine, you can see a blood stain on the side of his jacket-thing and also no hand. Interesting no? In short, I don't think Zimmy is responsible for the missing hand. (Also a bit of devil's advocate here: has anyone considered the possibility that Anthony is autistic? I see a lot of hate towards him in the comments, but autistic people have difficulty expressing emotions and considering the feelings of others etc. Sure he's a total Lord Farquaad, but maybe that could explain his behaviour?) Actually, I think you're seeing an illusion of a blood-stained shirt when it's really background space. His arm sticks down from the right side of his body, which is hard to tell at first when you're looking at the image of him being punched by Zimmy. You have to look at it from a certain angle to see that it's actually just the background and not, in fact, a bloodied coat. |
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on Mar 25, 2015 17:00:22 GMT
Exactly. It is only after she states it the second time that he starts to look annoyed. Annie should get her act together. If he was able to just that easily talk about things that he experienced during his leave, maybe he would have also mentioned some in a post card. That he never sent a one might signal something. is the adult here, and who is the teenager? And on that note, who is the parent and who is the child? It's not Antimony's job to tread extra carefully to avoid hurting an adult man's delicate fee-fees. If Anthony didn't want to talk about what he experienced during his leave, then he shouldn't have disappeared without explanation for years. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 25, 2015 17:18:29 GMT
There is something about Anthony's face in the second panel that makes me wonder if he was going to try and explain/connect with Annie and then got annoyed when she started blurting on about his hand. It looks a bit softer, and possibly slightly anxious, compared to some of the other panels, especially later on that page where he once again looks very stern and cross. I'm hoping that that won't turn out to be their one chance to reconnect gone for good. Exactly. It is only after she states it the second time that he starts to look annoyed. Annie should get her act together. If he was able to just that easily talk about things that he experienced during his leave, maybe he would have also mentioned some in a post card. That he never sent a one might signal something. Sorry but "Annie should get HER act together"? Perhaps this is merely projecting, but in my experience, people tend to express concern at the sudden revelation that a family member (their ONLY family in Annie's case) has been maimed to the degree of apparent loss of limb. The man vanishes for X years without speaking to Annie, materializes without notice during a class and as far as we have seen has only maintained a distinctly unfamilial attitude. Okay, sure, don't want to waste time with family matters when there's a whole class to teach; makes sense to hold her back a moment when his teaching duties aren't taking precedence. And so after these years of absence she discovers her father has possibly been seriously injured. I can't imagine the person who wouldn't be so shocked as to make comment of their kin missing an entire hand from sheer concern. Anthony's rebuff of that concern only shows to me that he didn't hold her to make any measure of reconcillatory motions or to even talk on a personal level. If he did intend to finally talk about "them" and their relationship, he would have been prepared for his own daughter to be concerned about his dismemberment. He may not neccessarily tell her every last detail of what happened, but a simple "I understand how this must look to you and make you feel, but now's not the time or place to tell you" would have more than sufficed. The flat "this doesn't concern you" is a response I do not see from a man who wants or cares about Annie worrying about his health, and does nothing but further distance him from the notion in my mind of someone who has any interest in trying to heal their relationship. I -absolutely- refuse to place blame on Annie here. If there is a need to getting her act together, it seems to be for her to begin preparing herself for the possibility that her father is a runaway jackwagon and that that reality may not ever change. |
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Post by xtinas on Mar 25, 2015 17:24:40 GMT
I -absolutely- refuse to place blame on Annie here. If there is a need to getting her act together, it seems to be for her to begin preparing herself for the possibility that her father is a runaway jackwagon and that that reality may not ever change. Agreed entirely. Entirely. Also "runaway jackwagon" is my new favourite term. |
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 25, 2015 18:01:04 GMT
What if he cut off his own hand?
Maybe, he found away to "cure" Annie of being a fire elemental, but the etheric workings required "material". So he asks for medical supplies, and "gets to work"... with unexpected results.
Like others, I thought for a second, that he'd been hiding his hand, while passing out books. It would explain his singling her out to leave, and not giving a book to her. Then he opened his mouth, and called everything into question. Oh, silly awkward(or cruel) Anthony.
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Post by speedwell on Mar 25, 2015 18:03:23 GMT
The loss of the hand may explain why he's Mr. Carver instead of Dr. Carver now. Tough to be a surgeon with a prosthetic hand, though the Court might be able to do something about that and that may offer an alternate explanation on why he's back. Although, a new hand might be the bribe that got him back to rein in Antimony or something, since the two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive. Surgeons are historically referred to as "Mr" rather than "Dr", though "Dr" is more common today. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Apropos of nothing, if his hand is indeed a nonfunctioning or low-functioning prosthetic, I call Kat's involvement in developing a replacement, though how Kat might be induced to do such a thing, I can't know at this point. If anything, it would involve trying to help Antimony impress/help/prove her good faith to her father. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 25, 2015 18:04:28 GMT
I don't think the went there to help people, honestly.  As far as we know, he has dedicated his whole life so far to help people. |
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lit
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Posts: 201
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Post by lit on Mar 25, 2015 18:04:56 GMT
Who is the adult here, and who is the teenager? And on that note, who is the parent and who is the child? It's not Antimony's job to tread extra carefully to avoid hurting an adult man's delicate fee-fees. If Anthony didn't want to talk about what he experienced during his leave, then he shouldn't have disappeared without explanation for years. Or he could just have simply said "I would rather not discuss that right now." The way he handles it here, he is lashing out, trying to make Annie feel that she was in the wrong for showing any concern. She will always be second-guessing her instincts around him, and I think it's likely this is intentional on his part. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 25, 2015 18:21:58 GMT
I don't think the went there to help people, honestly. As far as we know, he has dedicated his whole life so far to help people. Gave out all his love and cheer to help the needing of the world, leaving none for his precious daughter? Nah, I'm still betting on dedicated lifetime practitioner of Tossery. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 25, 2015 19:22:02 GMT
Loving concern from your child? Can't be having none of that now. By now it's more of - hey, at least he's not too far out of it to notice and restate. Wait a second, is his hand some sort of prosthetic because of the gleam? It's either a clumsy thick piece of solid plastic, or a thick glove - which combined with not using that hand most likely means that what's underneath isn't in much better shape than "replaced with a piece of plastic". Yeah, at this point I don't care about the why behind his behavior. Whatever the sob story that your pain is understandable doesn't make your behavior acceptable. And, amusingly, that's precisely what he does not do. See, it's amusing because it's one more instance of the forum spontaneously roleplaying events and characters on screen. In this case, the role seems to be "being too far down one's own rabbit hole for paying attention to the obvious things outside of it". I remind everybody, once again, of this. That may have been related to Anthony being a part of the same group as Surma and James. Renard apparently possessed that guy on the forest side of the bridge, so it looks like at this point tension was relaxed. Tough to be a surgeon with a prosthetic hand, though the Court might be able to do something about that Yes. Unfortunately the one who would do that is Kat. Okay, much more likely she just didn't bother to find out who already does bionics in the Court, because she treats "robot bodies" thing as a personal challenge. And now, about to find out. Now I wonder if Anthony may have already written off Annie as beyond hope... Why? He apparently wants her to be the bestest student. I assumed that Anthony came back to save Annie from her fire-elemental self. Why, and if not, what of it? But after the events in Divine he may have realized that Annie didn't want to be saved and therefore could not be saved. Why and how? Because he could mistake Zimmy for her and think she talks about herself in 3rd person? If Annie has embraced her etheric self, then she's dead to him. What. And if you look closely at the pic of Zimmy punching Anthony in Divine, you can see a blood stain on the side of his jacket-thing and also no hand. No. I don't see any stains on his shirt. But the page only shows his right arm from the elbow up, yes. |
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Post by Fishy on Mar 25, 2015 19:26:41 GMT
As much as I love Zimmy and I would love for her to pop in at any moment and maybe smack Tony around a bit or even just stand there bein' spooky, I don't think she caused this. Then again, actually looking back at Divine, Tony's right hand is hidden in the page where he gets falcon punched. Just droppin' my two cents. I doubt it was her just based on feeling, but also based on feeling I'd love it if it was her. Also sorta worries me if Tony's aware of Zimmy's presence in the Court, relationship with Annie, and her condition.
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Post by antiyonder on Mar 25, 2015 19:32:53 GMT
Yeah, "none of your business/concern" is for gossip mongers or sleazy reporters. Not for a relative being worried about an injury/decapitation.
Even then, a simple "I prefer not to discuss it (right now)" would send the message better.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Mar 25, 2015 19:36:35 GMT
There are five bones stuck to Annie in the Divine, and these bones do look like phalanges - and it would make sense that if he was operating her through some etheric science, he had his hands on her. This concreteness of operating her also explains the anaesthesia that the "coma", which always effectively was just being asleep, would have been. She had to be asleep to be operated. I wish we'll learn what he tried to do. This is getting very interesting. If this were indeed what was happening, it begs three questions: - What was he trying to do?
- How far did he get?
- What is the impact to Annie of it having been interrupted?
I am interested in #3 in particular. In the physical world, just stopping a surgery would very likely make things much worse than they were before. |
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Post by sidhekin on Mar 25, 2015 19:47:00 GMT
But after the events in Divine he may have realized that Annie didn't want to be saved and therefore could not be saved. Why and how? Because he could mistake Zimmy for her and think she talks about herself in 3rd person? A "Zimmy" with red hair, flaming fist, and a bleeding gash on her left cheek? Yeah, I rather think he could mistake her for Annie. |
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Post by scalesandfins on Mar 25, 2015 19:50:35 GMT
Because I don't think the went there to help people, honestly. Yeah, I'm doing a reread and something creepy jumped out at me from A Ghost Story p. 336-- Muut shows up to take a soul, claiming he's there for "a visit," and Annie recognizes the room number: "Mrs. Tolikna? You are just in time! My da- father said she is leaving tomorrow. She's kind of old, though. She's probably asleep right now." There's no way a surgeon should be saying that any patient is going to die the next day with that amount of certainty. Even a very old woman in what I'm assuming is a palliative care ward. Not, "she'll be leaving any day now" or "soon,", but "she is leaving tomorrow." I guess it's possible that Mrs. Tolikna had a living will in place and had slipped into a state where the hospital would be pulling the plug at a set time, but... ugh. On a less morbid note, I'm getting really paranoid that Anthony is going to pull Annie from the Court or otherwise try to leverage his legal guardianship to fuck up her life (and probably make more attempts to violate her body/soul.) If this happens I am hoping so, so hard that the robot cult steps in and puts him down, because their credo is "She died and we did nothing," the wild girl who loved the Forest pinned by the cold scientist like a butterfly to a page either with an arrow or bone fingers from the sky, and they can't allow that to happen again. Either that or there's going to be a big thematic parallel between Anthony and Jeanne; both miserable, dessicated shells of the people they once were, consumed with loss and hate, both leaving scars on Annie's spirit. Ugh, just, fuck this guy. |
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Post by jasmijn on Mar 25, 2015 19:53:01 GMT
Apropos of nothing, if his hand is indeed a nonfunctioning or low-functioning prosthetic, I call Kat's involvement in developing a replacement, though how Kat might be induced to do such a thing, I can't know at this point. If anything, it would involve trying to help Antimony impress/help/prove her good faith to her father. If that happens, I call Paz being the one to convince Kat that it's The Right Thing To Do. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 20:26:56 GMT
Yeah, I'm doing a reread and something creepy jumped out at me from A Ghost Story p. 336-- Muut shows up to take a soul, claiming he's there for "a visit," and Annie recognizes the room number: "Mrs. Tolikna? You are just in time! My da- father said she is leaving tomorrow. She's kind of old, though. She's probably asleep right now." There's no way a surgeon should be saying that any patient is going to die the next day with that amount of certainty. Even a very old woman in what I'm assuming is a palliative care ward. Not, "she'll be leaving any day now" or "soon,", but "she is leaving tomorrow." I guess it's possible that Mrs. Tolikna had a living will in place and had slipped into a state where the hospital would be pulling the plug at a set time, but... ugh. I think it makes more sense to interpret that as her already being dead at the time of Muut's visit. Doesn't he only collect the souls of dead people, not almost-dead people? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 25, 2015 20:32:24 GMT
There are five bones stuck to Annie in the Divine, and these bones do look like phalanges - and it would make sense that if he was operating her through some etheric science, he had his hands on her. This concreteness of operating her also explains the anaesthesia that the "coma", which always effectively was just being asleep, would have been. She had to be asleep to be operated. I wish we'll learn what he tried to do. This is getting very interesting. If this were indeed what was happening, it begs three questions: - What was he trying to do?
- How far did he get?
- What is the impact to Annie of it having been interrupted?
I am interested in #3 in particular. In the physical world, just stopping a surgery would very likely make things much worse than they were before. Don't wish to come out as pedant, but it does not beg these questions, but raises them. This may be a good point to take that note, so you know later. Anyway, these are questions to which I hope we'll get answers. At the moment it seems that nothing happened to Annie, however. Or has anybody noticed any effect after that? To me it seems that at least the fire-head side that you'd expect to be the one that was worst affected has at least not grown weaker since that, the opposite if anything. That of course can be reversed to a question: if the operation in Divine left had no effect to Annie after the interruption, then how could it have been a concrete hands on operation on Annie? |
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werrf
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Post by werrf on Mar 25, 2015 20:40:32 GMT
Gave out all his love and cheer to help the needing of the world, leaving none for his precious daughter? Nah, I'm still betting on dedicated lifetime practitioner of Tossery. You think Surma would have married a dedicated tosser? When she had other choices available? I'm telling you, there's more to this than meets the eye. Tony is deliberately pushing Annie away. Why, we don't know, but I suspect it is, or at least he strongly believes it is, for her benefit. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 25, 2015 20:43:32 GMT
But there is nothing relaxed about Ysengrin mentioning Anthony Carver. On the contrary, the idea that Anthony Carver was there seems to make this a particular threat or attack against the Forest. So the connection between him and the Forest must have been of a particularly negative nature. |
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