lit
Full Member
Posts: 201
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Post by lit on Jul 25, 2014 14:25:53 GMT
Going with Definitely Not Zimmy. When I first saw the page, I was like "Oh, Jack got a gothy girlfriend as a substitute for Zimmy!" and then when I saw Tom's caption I was like "oooOOohH? Have we met her?" still not even occurring to me that it could possibly be Zimmy.
I don't think we have met her though. I think Tom's comment is referring to someone that Annie knows from things that happened offscreen. Just as some of the development of Paz's relationship with Kat happened off screen and caught readers by surprise, I have a feeling that this relationship between Jack and MAL has been something ongoing over the year that Annie has noticed and that's been bugging her but that hasn't really had a place in any of the chapters. Until now.
He's not saying "these guys" as if *we* know them. He's saying "these guys" as if Annie does.
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 14:28:44 GMT
I could agree that most things, instead of everything, suggest that it is Zimmy and Jack, but it is tough to see what there is that not only suggests but even goes against that hypothesis. Diregarding the fact that it would be a giant 180° from Zimmy's chracter as we last saw her, in both style and attitude, the black eyes are the most obvious example, but there's also that chest that bursted in a few months. Other than that, the comic didn't make a habit of completely changing characters off-screen with no foreshadowing whatsoever. It's not a few months ago that we last saw Zimmy. It was in Divine, which took place most likely about one year, if not longer, since. In any case, a long enough time that it can make a huge change in teenagers, and long enough that all the other characters have changed a lot. A lot. They have not only matured, but also the drawing style has become increasingly more realistic. It's highly improbable that Zimmy would have remained the way she was when we last saw her. Therefore, that this looks different to the Zimmy we saw years ago does not in itself speak against it being Zimmy. She's close enough - the face shape, the hair, the pale or almost grey skin, that it could well be Zimmy, if she has gone through quite a big change in her personal condition between now and when we last saw her. Which, as said, is in fact likely thing to happen in her age. Hormons and related possible change of her etheric functioning along with mental growing up and learning to better deal with her particular relation to ether, and perhaps change in her social relations, namely getting a boyfriend, could well combine for changes of this magnitude - very clearly many amongst us think she, if she's Zimmy, is recognizable at least to the extent that we ask "is that Zimmy?" Of her attitude we do not know that much in whole. Only that she is dating, and dressing differently. The signs that she is Zimmy are: 1. The guy looks like Jack; 2. Jack has strange, though explicable crush to Zimmy; 3. She looks like Zimmy in many ways; 4. Tom hints that we already know "these guys", both of them, which also further suggests that the guy is Jack which in turn reinforces other signs; 5. Annie's reaction to them, she clearly feels awkward about meeting them, talking to them, and while that does not confirm that it must be Jack and Zimmy, that surely would explain her reaction. Anyway, as I said, there's the chance that this is Jack's Zimmy-look-a-like. Or that this is not even Jack. That is possible, but there are no real signs telling that this would not be Zimmy, in particular. That would explain Annie's reaction too. As noted before, Jack may be just kind of annoying by himself without there having to be Zimmy there. But who is she then? |
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Post by Marnath on Jul 25, 2014 14:38:27 GMT
Are you guys serious? Pull up divine and compare Zimmy to this girl. There is a profound difference in skin tones between the two girls. Not to mention the eyes and everything.
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 14:40:32 GMT
Daddy dearest trying again? If he figured out it's Zimmy that intervened the last time, this could be a dream specifically set up to drive a wedge between them and prevent that from happening again. edit: But not Real Life Zimmy in any case, if this closeup is any indication. Dat nose I like this one. The panels 2 have certain resemblance, and isn't there a bit of feel of walking into a dream there. My first interpretation was that Annie is so ignorant of outside world that it makes everything a bit dreamy and confusing to her, as if she was in another world, and that still is a plausible explanation, but this one's clearly possible too, and more interesting one, maybe. The Zimma (Zimmy and Gamma merged) idea is good too. Are you guys serious? Pull up divine and compare Zimmy to this girl. There is a profound difference in skin tones between the two girls. Not to mention the eyes and everything. I'm re-reading Divine as I write. There's the strange grey shade of pale, though, and this time they're in sun not in hospital and the drawing/coloring has developed generally. For example, Annie had a different tone of skin color in hospital too. And as somebody noted, if she has progressed mentally and etherically, that could and maybe should affect her physical appearance - aside of the fact of hormones. Suppose she would now fare way better than she used to. Could she not look like that? And the teeth... we don't see them yet. Her mouth is shut. Why does everybody keep on supposing she doesn't have those razor teeth? |
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Post by Elysium on Jul 25, 2014 15:01:25 GMT
It's not a few months ago that we last saw Zimmy. It was in Divine, which took place most likely about one year, if not longer, since.[/quote] It's denitely LESS than a year, since the current year started with From the Forest she came. In any case, a long enough time that it can make a huge change in teenagers, and long enough that all the other characters have changed a lot. A lot. They have not only matured, but also the drawing style has become increasingly more realistic. It's highly improbable that Zimmy would have remained the way she was when we last saw her. Therefore, that this looks different to the Zimmy we saw years ago does not in itself speak against it being Zimmy. First, it's been months, and second, since when puberty changes iris color ? Of her attitude we do not know that much in whole. Only that she is dating, and dressing differently. And the comic went YEARS without her interacting with no one else other than Gamma and looking the same, and all of a sudden she goes through a complete change of persona ? The signs that she is Zimmy are: 1. The guy looks like Jack; 2. Jack has strange, though explicable crush to Zimmy; Those things concern Jack, not Zimmy. 3. She looks like Zimmy in many ways; She doesn't look in many ways too. 4. Tom hints that we already know "these guys", both of them, which also further suggests that the guy is Jack which in turn reinforces other signs; You see a hint, I see an interrogation point, which doesn't tell anything. 5. Annie's reaction to them, she clearly feels awkward about meeting them, talking to them, and while that does not confirm that it must be Jack and Zimmy, that surely would explain her reaction. It's Jack and his GF, of course she'd feel awkward meeting them, regardless of who the GF is. A new character. |
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Post by mordekai on Jul 25, 2014 15:02:28 GMT
Is that Zimmy? She has changed a lot, and looks better even, eyes aren't red though? Jack has changed a good deal since we last saw him too. I wonder how Gamma is doing though, now that Zimmy no longer needs her symbiotic relationship? I have suspected from the beginning that Gamma is just a figment of Zimmy's imagination given existence as an emotional crutch. She may still dwell in Gamma's head, watching the outside world through her eyes. |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 25, 2014 15:05:28 GMT
I seriously hope it's Zimmy and Jack. Assuming it is, I wonder what Gamma is doing. I would like to see her tagging along with Annie so she can communicate.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jul 25, 2014 15:13:38 GMT
Court is a place that maintains diplomatic relationships with Keters and lets Euclids run completely without guard to "study" them, so why not? Fits on their previous record of risk management. For people who, like me, don't follow the various SCP websites: Keeter = harmful to human life Euclid = unknown species and hard to classify |
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Post by eyemyself on Jul 25, 2014 15:14:48 GMT
I have suspected from the beginning that Gamma is just a figment of Zimmy's imagination given existence as an emotional crutch. She may still dwell in Gamma's head, watching the outside world through her eyes. That is an interesting theory! Now you have me thinking... Oh man, Zimmy and Jack though? I just can't see it. |
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Post by Lightice on Jul 25, 2014 15:17:57 GMT
Hardly, but (heterosexual) romance curing an incurable curse is far too Disney for Gunnerkrigg Court. The implication being a homosexual romance would? No, just that Zimmy has already been in a relationship that can be construed as either romantic or deeper than romantic without any change to her condition. I was just digging at the Disney conventions that people are expecting to be at work here. I am fairly certain that Zimmy's condition is an irreversible part of her; you can't take it away from her any better than you could take the fire elemental out of Annie. And just mitigating her symptoms ought to be a major plot element, not an off screen afterthought. EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure that Tom's "It's those guys" is just a joke. He's commented "it's that guy" or "mystery solved!" in strips with completely new characters or even more questions, before. |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 15:23:28 GMT
I seriously hope it's Zimmy and Jack. Assuming it is, I wonder what Gamma is doing. I would like to see her tagging along with Annie so she can communicate. Gamma has been (rather selflessly, I think) sticking with Zimmy when everyone else would have run away, putting her life on hold and even sacrificing her health (seriously, going without sleep for that long is not good) to help Zimmy not have constant nightmares, hallucinations, or trips to extra-dimensional horror-land, or whatever they are. If Zimmy no longer needs her as much, then maybe she's just taking some well-deserved alone-time. Probably napping. |
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Post by espional on Jul 25, 2014 15:28:26 GMT
I guess I picked a good update to finally join the forums. Hey all!
Personally, I'd be surprised if this girl was Zimmy. It seems like a dramatic change, and while it's entirely possible Zimmy's become much more stable since we saw her, I don't think that kind of change would happen off-panel. Still, stranger things have happened, so I'm keeping an open mind.
Hypothetical: what if MAL was created by Zimmy? Perhaps she's some kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy given life by Zimmy's reality warping? Just a thought.
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Post by Eversist on Jul 25, 2014 15:30:24 GMT
Like many others, I think Jack just found a Zimmy replacement in a goth girl.
Besides, Divine was not too long ago (less than a year, since it happened during this school year). I'm not sure how that transformation would have taken place in such a short time.
And yeah... wrong iris color.
Annnnd a tweet from Tom:
Not to say that this couldn't be a prequel, or concerning what is currently happening right here... just seems unlikely.
P.S. I just hope it's not her.
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Post by agentletrush on Jul 25, 2014 15:32:43 GMT
Is that Zimmy? She has changed a lot, and looks better even, eyes aren't red though? Jack has changed a good deal since we last saw him too. I wonder how Gamma is doing though, now that Zimmy no longer needs her symbiotic relationship? I have suspected from the beginning that Gamma is just a figment of Zimmy's imagination given existence as an emotional crutch. She may still dwell in Gamma's head, watching the outside world through her eyes. I was thinking this at one point, but there's one thing that I just couldn't explain if it was true. In Dobranoc, Gamma, when the court agents approach Zimmy for the first time, they seem to know who Gamma is, referring to her by surname. Considering that Zimmy and Gamma communicate telepathically, I can't imagine that any details about Gamma could be overheard, so I can't see how the court could identify her without her being a real person. Also, there's nothing in the comic or word of Tom that seems to foreshadow this, even when I specifically tried looking for it. I really like the idea, but I don't think it's true.  |
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Post by Señor Goose on Jul 25, 2014 15:33:26 GMT
I have a thought. What if it's both Gamma and Zimmy. We're not sure how their connection works. If Gamma's the only thing that keeps Zimmy together, what would happen if they somehow merged. "Torn" could be about that union being pushed apart by their internal differences (Jack?), among other things.  |
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Post by The Anarch on Jul 25, 2014 15:33:55 GMT
Seven pages? Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! I'm just going to assume that every single post so far has been some kind of variation on "Is that Zimmy or is that ain't?" and add my own "That ain't Zimmy, but Jack sure wants her to be."
Jack also wants himself to be Shaggy Rogers.
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 15:36:26 GMT
And yeah... wrong iris color. I'm a little confused on why people are so wrapped up in the eye-color thing; personally I think that, if this IS Zimmy, then it could be either a sign of her improving condition, or just an artistic choice. Annie has grey-green eyes or something (kinda hard to tell) but in panel 3 on this page they look all-black, like Kat's, and in panel 4 they are just little dots. The girl might not be Zimmy; Annie could just think things are still awkward with Jack (assuming that's Jack). However, I think it would be awesome if it was. It's called character-development. |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 25, 2014 15:37:13 GMT
I though that this could be useful...  |
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Post by Eversist on Jul 25, 2014 15:41:10 GMT
ZIMMY WOULD NEVER SMILE (without her spiky teeth showing). -- And yeah... wrong iris color. I'm a little confused on why people are so wrapped up in the eye-color thing; personally I think that, if this IS Zimmy, then it could be either a sign of her improving condition, or just an artistic choice. Annie has grey-green eyes or something (kinda hard to tell) but in panel 3 on this page they look all-black, like Kat's, and in panel 4 they are just little dots. The girl might not be Zimmy; Annie could just think things are still awkward with Jack (assuming that's Jack). However, I think it would be awesome if it was. It's called character-development. I think it's such a defining characteristic for Zimmy, since the few times we HAVE been able to see her eyes, the irises have always been depicted as red (even when drawn small; I agree that Tom often does that, but not with Zimmy). I will go find an example now. Edit: She is drawn MUCH smaller here, yet her eye color is depicted. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=739www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=740We'll agree to disagree on this part. |
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Post by eightyfour on Jul 25, 2014 15:42:37 GMT
If Tom had only just drawn her from a slightly different angle so that Jack's arm wouldn't obscure that spot on her chest where Zimmy always sports her omminous circle no matter what she's wearing...  |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 15:43:00 GMT
I'm with the "it's clearly not Zimm" crowd, although I'm not entirely sure on the "clearly" part. For one there's Tom's comment using the plural "guys", which implies we know both of them, and who else could the girl be if not Zimmy? Also, this is Jack we're talking about. Next to Kat he's the closest thing we have in the comic to a genius kid, and he might actually have found a way to "fix" Zimmy. I have a thought. What if it's both Gamma and Zimmy. We're not sure how their connection works. If Gamma's the only thing that keeps Zimmy together, what would happen if they somehow merged. "Torn" could be about that union being pushed apart by their internal differences (Jack?), among other things. Interesting...personally I'd call this wildspec, but I like it  he might actually have found a way to "fix" Zimmy. With no foreshadowing at all, though? Speaking off subject, there's one more argument why that's unlikely to be Zimmy: MAL is too busty. Idk, it's been at least half a year since we've seen her, and Jack's certainly changed drastically. |
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Post by Eversist on Jul 25, 2014 15:48:34 GMT
Dedalo, consider consolidating your posts. |
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Post by The Anarch on Jul 25, 2014 15:51:26 GMT
Speaking off subject, there's one more argument why that's unlikely to be Zimmy: MAL is too busty. Idk, it's been at least half a year since we've seen her, and Jack's certainly changed drastically. He grew a goatee and everything!But I suppose this does raise the question . . . is that really Jack?! |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 15:52:43 GMT
Dedalo, consider consolidating your posts. I know - multiple tabs are tricky to manage, so when it's early in the morning and I'm tired, I just quote each individually and edit them together. You caught me in the process Plus, usually when I do that someone's posted between my responses anyway, nipping the problem in the bud. |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 15:53:46 GMT
It's called character-development. We'll agree to disagree on this part. What exactly are we disagreeing on here- that characters undergo development or change (like aging) that might alter their personality and/or physical appearence? That Zimmy would undergo character development, because everything must stay the same forever and ever and ever? Or that Zimmy undergoing character development is a good thing? Something else? I want to make sure I'm clear on this point before I start ranting. Idk, it's been at least half a year since we've seen her, and Jack's certainly changed drastically. He grew a goatee and everything!But I suppose this does raise the question . . . is that really Jack?!We never really got a clear answer on who/what Zimmy is or what's causing her freakiness. I consider it entirely possible that something magical is involved with this here. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 15:54:35 GMT
It's not a few months ago that we last saw Zimmy. It was in Divine, which took place most likely about one year, if not longer, since. It's denitely LESS than a year, since the current year started with From the Forest she came. In any case, a long enough time that it can make a huge change in teenagers, and long enough that all the other characters have changed a lot. A lot. They have not only matured, but also the drawing style has become increasingly more realistic. It's highly improbable that Zimmy would have remained the way she was when we last saw her. Therefore, that this looks different to the Zimmy we saw years ago does not in itself speak against it being Zimmy. First, it's been months, and second, since when puberty changes iris color ? [/quote] 1. Changes iris color? What we have ever seen of Zimmy's eyes has been very very shadowy, and the best that we've had of her iris color, has been black. Now, it just happens that the iris color of the girl, be it Zimmy or pseudo-Zimmy, or Zimma or Gammy or whoever, seems to be black. 2. In a sense, it has been months, since anything longer than one month is also "months". But it has been long enough period that we wouldn't usually say it's "months". Let's see. It is now stated it is summer, more precisely the students are moving into year ten, i.e. they are at the very end of their academic year. In Changes, it was stated that "winter's here" indicating that winter was about to begin. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1129 Indeed, after it, in Catalyst, Annie was wearing a warm jacket, whereas in The Great Secret her clothing was suggestive of early or mid Autumn at latest www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1058, not yet cold for sure. Which makes sense, because not a lot of time had been wasted in or between the chapters between Faraway Morning, where the academic year started, and The Great Secret: chapters Red Gets a Name and Microsat 5 took place in time of one day, and the continuity from Parley and Smitty are in this one suggests they took place very shortly after that chapter, whereas Divine is arguably, and at least in the interpretation I'm familiar with, caused by what happened in Microsat 5 by Tony's interference. Thus, it has definitely been almost a whole academic year that started only in Faraway Morning - or apparently in Give and Take, maybe that take's place in weekend, seems like they're not yet in school. According to Wikipedia, in England and Wales, school opens in early September and is closed in late July. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_year#United_Kingdom Thus, it is now July. In Changes, it was November, or at best, early December. The Great Secret took most likely place in October. Divine was about in last September or very early October. That is, indeed "months", you're right about that, more precisely about 10 months, which also is close enough to be called "about one year". |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 25, 2014 15:57:05 GMT
But I suppose this does raise the question . . . is that really Jack?!Cover his chin and look at the picture. While you're at it you ca do so with Zimmy's eyes, but it's still more ambiguous. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 15:57:45 GMT
He grew a goatee and everything!Some words of wisdom from EOL#35: I will not grow a goatee. In the old days they made you look diabolic. Now they just make you look like a disaffected member of Generation X. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 15:58:29 GMT
Idk, it's been at least half a year since we've seen her, and Jack's certainly changed drastically. He grew a goatee and everything!But I suppose this does raise the question . . . is that really Jack?!That's a good question. To my mind, he didn't really look like Jack until someone said it and found the opportunity to draw that goatee to Jack. |
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Post by Eversist on Jul 25, 2014 15:59:15 GMT
Dedalo, consider consolidating your posts. I know - multiple tabs are tricky to manage, so when it's early in the morning and I'm tired, I just quote each individually and edit them together. You caught me in the process Plus, usually when I do that someone's posted between my responses anyway, nipping the problem in the bud. Oopsie poopsie. Sorry for that, then. |
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