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Post by Señor Goose on Dec 27, 2013 3:36:27 GMT
If your sibling identifies as male, why would you refer to them as your sister, and with "she" pronouns? Habit, I guess. I've gotten used to not calling her "Anna", and even if it slips out once in a while she is not the type to be offended. However, I cannot really bring myself to see her as a "brother" instead of a sister because she is still fairly feminine. It's not that I haven't tried, I just unconsciously call her my sister to other people, and I'm usually not in a position to stop, go back and correct myself without getting people involved in things that aren't my business to be discussing anyway. She is still a minor for another year, and our family is hardly in a position to shell out for a sex change. It's been a weird couple years. Major paradigm shift for me. I always thought of myself as a very progressive person socially and politically, so it was kind of a blow to my self-righteous self-image when I initially greeted her news with uncomfortable disbelief. I still kick myself for insisting it was just a phase at first. I apologized later, but she really could have used me on her side right then instead of squicking out and telling her it was all in her head. It can be kind of a push. One of my close friends came out as transexual to me and my reaction (not to her face, just about it in general) was a little less progressive than I expected of myself. And that was just a friend, not even a brother or sister. |
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Post by warrl on Dec 27, 2013 17:13:38 GMT
2) It's not clear to me what you're referring to when you say "thou". If you merely mean deferential use of plural, most now think it obsolete and awkward and some are absolutely offended by it. Actually, "thee" and "thou" were originally - in Old English - singular while "ye" and "eow" were plural (which you used depended on case). With no connotations of social status. The Norman Conquest had two effects on these words: freedom from the formalities of the royal court allowed Old English to evolve into Middle English, which mostly eliminated cases and declensions, during the course of which "ye" and "eow" got merged into "you"; and the Norman French brought with them the notion that referring to someone with a singular pronoun was somewhat disrespectful, causing "thee"/"thou" to start declining in usage. (French still has, in common usage, an informal-singular second person "tu" and a plural-and-formal-singular second person "vous"; and inappropriately using the informal-singular is seen as insulting.) Incidentally, the use of "ye" in signs and business names - Ye Olde Computer Shoppe - is totally unrelated. It is properly pronounced exactly the same as "the". It came about because Old English used letters not present in other European languages, and therefore not included in standard movable-type sets when those became available; it took a few experiments to find the best replacements for those letters. The letter Y in certain hand-written scripts bears a strong resemblance to the Old English letter Þ, named "thorn", in certain other hand-written scripts, so was one of the longer-lasting of the replacements eventually discarded. |
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Post by Per on Dec 27, 2013 17:39:55 GMT
Actually, "thee" and "thou" were originally - in Old English - singular while "ye" and "eow" were plural (which you used depended on case). Then it's correct: singular address is now standard. More information here. ("Thou" just makes me think of Olde English though.) |
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Post by Lightice on Dec 27, 2013 17:46:46 GMT
Then it's correct: singular address is now standard. Not quite. There is no difference between singular and plural second person pronoun in the standard modern English, any more. The meaning depends entirely on the context. Though in some variations of English "you" is slowly mutating into a singular with expressions like "youse" or "you guys" taking the place of the plural. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 27, 2013 17:54:07 GMT
Let us not forget "y'all".
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 27, 2013 18:02:21 GMT
Let us not forgot "y'all".  |
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Post by Per on Dec 27, 2013 18:14:15 GMT
Then it's correct: singular address is now standard. Not quite. No, I meant in Swedish. We were talking about what freeman wrote on the previous page that I didn't fully understand. |
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Post by alpacalypse on Dec 27, 2013 18:51:58 GMT
Let us not forgot "y'all". I fall on the border of all of those, and use all of them. "Hey y'all," "How are you guys?," "It's youse guys." |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 27, 2013 19:54:53 GMT
Let's not forget as well  |
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Post by warrl on Dec 27, 2013 20:07:14 GMT
Let us not forgot "y'all". Y'all forgot "All y'all". |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 27, 2013 20:10:11 GMT
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Post by Per on Dec 27, 2013 20:21:33 GMT
I took the test and if I were American, apparently I'd be from New England, Michigan, Hawaii or San Jose.
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 27, 2013 20:23:39 GMT
Let us not forgot "y'all". Well, I'm an Arizonan, but I still use y'all. However this is not because it's what I grew up with or what I hear, sino because I find it more awkward to use 'you guys' if the group is composed of people of both genders. I also call everyone 'sir' or 'madame' as a standard form of address, because I can. I use the English language oddly. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 27, 2013 20:30:09 GMT
I took the test and if I were American, apparently I'd be from New England, Michigan, Hawaii or San Jose. This claims I'm from the East Coast. How odd. But I acknowledge that I do not speak English like the other people I know. For that matter, I pick up terms and grammatical constructions from other languages and I often employ them into normal pseudo-English speech. Especially the word 'sino' and the 'gustar' construction from English. Plus other terms from TV Tropes have entered my vocabulary. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 27, 2013 20:40:10 GMT
It claims I'm from the west coast, when I'm Floridian. Huh.
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 27, 2013 20:53:54 GMT
I dunno if it's correct, having me similar to a city that's just 70 miles away, or if I should go to Arizona because Mesa and Chandler are the other two it says.  |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 27, 2013 21:22:47 GMT
It pegged me on a range between Washington and eastern Arizona.
Close enough I guess...
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 27, 2013 23:31:48 GMT
It pegged me on a range between Washington and eastern Arizona. Close enough I guess... I dunno if it's correct, having me similar to a city that's just 70 miles away, or if I should go to Arizona because Mesa and Chandler are the other two it says. Come down to the land of the sun! Señor Goose and I will throw y'all a Gunnerkrigg party. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 28, 2013 2:21:09 GMT
I would, of course, attempt to crash the party uninvited, but knowing my luck I would break down somewhere past Bakersfield.
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 28, 2013 3:53:28 GMT
I would, of course, attempt to crash the party uninvited, but knowing my luck I would break down somewhere past Bakersfield. You were invited. You've got an Arizonan accent, you'll fit here. |
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Post by warrl on Dec 28, 2013 6:40:01 GMT
I was surprised to learn that I'm apparently from Salt Lake City. I've never lived there and I'm pretty sure that none of my parents or grandparents ever lived there. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 28, 2013 7:38:18 GMT
Wow that is fun. And it correctly pinpointed my location in the Pacific Northwest, even naming my city as the first of three possible choices. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Dec 28, 2013 8:02:03 GMT
Well, shoot. My dad's from Denver and I picked up his vernacular.  Also, I am in favor of creating or adopting a new word for the second-person plural. I don't like ye, but yinz is pretty good. Or maybe an adaptation of the German Ihr. |
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Post by fwip on Dec 28, 2013 8:09:07 GMT
The map was fairly accurate for me as well. All three were in the right state, and two were within 60 miles.
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Post by Señor Goose on Dec 28, 2013 8:21:59 GMT
And thus begins the Great Wikipedia Crawl of 2013.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 28, 2013 8:22:54 GMT
Wow that is fun. And it correctly pinpointed my location in the Pacific Northwest, even naming my city as the first of three possible choices. Hahaha, I am so cynical. After seeing so many people saying it got their city just right, I started wondering if it was a prank, just grabbing your IP and naming your location. So I ran it again deliberately giving wrong answers. And it gave me three different cities scattered across the Midwest, far away from me. So I guess is it legit, and surprisingly well designed! I am glad to be proven wrong.  |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 28, 2013 8:51:18 GMT
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Post by Gulby on Dec 28, 2013 10:04:55 GMT
I love that. According to this test, I'm either from San Rose, Providence or New York. Since most of my english learning comes from original versions movies and TV shows, that mainly take place in big cities such as New York, that makes sense !  |
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
Posts: 242
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Post by freeman on Dec 28, 2013 10:34:10 GMT
I love that. According to this test, I'm either from San Rose, Providence or New York. Since most of my english learning comes from original versions movies and TV shows, that mainly take place in big cities such as New York, that makes sense ! Or, these cities have the largest percentage of non-native speakers who choose "I don't have special word or term for this" to most questions. Also, with this pattern Havaiji gets all red due lack of large motorways. Though, I don't think I have a term for half of these thigs even in my native speech; "rainfall when it's sunny", "the grass between the road and the sidewalk", "a drive-through liquor store"?! What is this, are you people mad? |
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 28, 2013 11:20:52 GMT
Hahaha, I am so cynical. After seeing so many people saying it got their city just right, I started wondering if it was a prank, just grabbing your IP and naming your location. So I ran it again deliberately giving wrong answers. And it gave me three different cities scattered across the Midwest, far away from me. So I guess is it legit, and surprisingly well designed! I am glad to be proven wrong. Not nearly cynical enough. IP location could be weighted or switched on/off randomly and still increase probability of correct identification. Before using the word "proven", you had to do it more than once, giving the same answers, with Tor and without, checking for (and destroying, if any) cookies from the site in question. At very least.  |
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