lit
Full Member
Posts: 201
|
Post by lit on Dec 9, 2013 21:56:28 GMT
SO guys how about that on-topic subject, yeah? I think we're all done discussing Kat's sexuality. (Gasp! Can you imagine?  ) Hang on oooone sec. - - - Insecure? In front of Annie? People can be insecure even with their best friends. Kat hid her feelings about Paz from Annie for several chapters because she was insecure.A hint that she's insecure, maybe. I just think she thought it would be cute and make people like her if she portrayed herself as boy-crazy. She knows everybody thinks she's weird, so maybe she thinks the boy-crazy trope will make people find her more accessible. All of this would have been on a subconscious level.The story dwells on Annie a lot more than it dwells on Kat. I think Kat's sexuality as a child was given proportional weight to how much time was spent on her in the story.Except that's not what happened. - - - Okay. That's that. Now I'm done discussing Kat's sexuality. |
|
|
|
Post by Señor Goose on Dec 9, 2013 22:29:48 GMT
I don't know, I guess I'm just abhorrent to leaving a paper trail. That's really the only thing keeping me from printing everything I want to read that's over two pages long. The only thing I hate more than reading things off of a computer screen is wasting money (or single-handedly destroying our world's forests, which are so dear to me). I don't know dude, forests are assholes. What I meant was that I would hate for my parents (or god forbid, my sister) to find a discarded fanfiction I was reading. If they knew of my secret life... God. |
|
|
|
Post by freeformline on Dec 9, 2013 22:44:55 GMT
That's really the only thing keeping me from printing everything I want to read that's over two pages long. The only thing I hate more than reading things off of a computer screen is wasting money (or single-handedly destroying our world's forests, which are so dear to me). I don't know dude, forests are assholes. What I meant was that I would hate for my parents (or god forbid, my sister) to find a discarded fanfiction I was reading. If they knew of my secret life... God. Ah, yes. I understand. |
|
|
|
Post by brightside on Dec 10, 2013 5:24:05 GMT
I think we're all done discussing Kat's sexuality. (Gasp! Can you imagine? ) Ook, I would have liked to end everything but well, there are some questions here , so...I can't resist. I'm not sure if others are reading too much into your words (I mean aside from the one that clearly did back there), but I personally have never been of the opinion that you were advocating a change in the story, merely saying what changes would have had to happen in the story for you to feel differently about Kat than you currently do. Exactly. Of course, I said that for all the possible (I think) outcomes of this subplot (for every one is different). You've claimed to feel that the characterization is wonky because of how Kat was very hetero-romantic throughout the early parts of the story. There was some solid counter-claims about how there were hints and how others feel differently about the hints than you do, and they were more or less claiming "that hetero-romantic crushes are common enough in gay & bi pre-teens that Tom's inclusion of Kat's crushes on men & man-like birds are not actually exclusive with Kat being attracted to Paz & girl-like birds creatures" But I guess that was lost in the big posts and talk about stereotypes or something. My point was about crushes being romantic crushes or presented as a sign of general attraction to boys. Both, as I have recognized, doesn't mean Kat could not still like Paz or some other girl. It's just a matter of where she is on the Kinsey Scale. For example, geminisun made me think about the "pure aestethic" point of view, so everything it's even more complicated now. Those were some of my posts about that:
"And someone can be interested in a social issue without wanting to see it always and everywhere, especially if that could mean a loss of quality in a work of art and EVEN MORE if it's preaching (BTW I don't think Tom has become a preacher, but maybe he was influenced by what's happening in other webcomics)". ("he" is another user) See the thing that I don't like about this is the claim that "maybe Tom changed his writing in a way that I don't like because it's trendy" undercurrent of the parenthetical statement. No good evidence is presented to support this supposition, and if I were to press it, I'd be amazed to find a defense of it that didn't boil down to intuiting vague patterns. Well I tried to say about why thatguywiththename could think that. It was a response to the "if you are interested in a social cause, you have to be ok with finding it forced everywhere" implied in Momo's posts (I if misunderstood, let me know). I don't know about what he (thatguywiththename) thinks, but if Tom just ipothetically changed all his characters to gay ones, even the ones that are not (not likely to happen) it would be not necessarily because it's "trendy", he could just have the same ideas as Momo (that I don't share at all, for example). "Tom doesn't need to create a story to modify society, but a good story" This is something that I think is heavily subjective. I don't think that Tom is altering society any more than any artist does simply by expressing their art. I think that what does change society is how people react to it. To a lot of us, Tom is telling a story that doesn't clash with our perceptions enough for us to change our tune, for others the story breeds resentment at imagined slights due to its lack of their particular brand of narrow-mindedness. And for others still, there is this feeling that the story doesn't reflect what they think and this is a matter of taste, not beliefs. Well yes, what a work of art does to you is subjective. But expressing your art always gives a different point of view to life to those who watch/listen to it. To people having clear ideas (of any kind) in that aspects it can be irrelevant, but there are some that maybe could start to think about things thanks to a story (always good) or base some of their ideas on it (sometimes it happens, not so good). Of course, it depends how the work of art is done. Everything about the stereotype-thing: well, I agree. The thoughtful introspection would be cool, but it would need another thread and a different impostation of the discussion (also, of course, is very difficult to do). I expect to eventually respond to your words regarding this discussion, but for now I ought to study anatomy & the treatment of sports injuries. Procrastinates anywayAhaha ok, no problem! Good work! Insecure? In front of Annie? People can be insecure even with their best friends. Kat hid her feelings about Paz from Annie for several chapters because she was insecure. Well, but she was still insecure about herself and what kind of relation was her one with Paz, there was also this motivation. A hint that she's insecure, maybe. I just think she thought it would be cute and make people like her if she portrayed herself as boy-crazy. She knows everybody thinks she's weird, so maybe she thinks the boy-crazy trope will make people find her more accessible. All of this would have been on a subconscious level. Maybe, but she used to joke nearly always with Annie (that never did jokes like that) and it was a lot more "weird" then her. She almost (camp exeption) never was being with more """normal """ (from her point of view) people when doing that. At least for what we saw. But still yes, we never saw her in class very often, so it could be different (she does that all the time, but we only see her with Annie). The story dwells on Annie a lot more than it dwells on Kat. I think Kat's sexuality as a child was given proportional weight to how much time was spent on her in the story. Yes, but it's not about giving it a lot of time, but using it in a different way. Except that's not what happened. Ok, I was talking to warrl about exactly this (in Kat 's case) so I thought your answers were about this possibility. So this closes the argument, I think. Okay. That's that. Now I'm done discussing Kat's sexuality. Hehmmm... sorry. But I think we are going into the subjective zone more then ever now, so maybe it is done. |
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on May 15, 2014 10:44:17 GMT
Now that Kat/Paz is canon, well, I really want to find out more about Paz! Other than that, I'm not one for shipping, but I think they're cute and they get along, end of. What more could you want?
|
|
|
|
Post by philman on May 18, 2014 9:00:28 GMT
Oh god, what a thread to Necro!
|
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on May 18, 2014 13:05:42 GMT
Oh god, what a thread to Necro! What's wrong with having necro'd that thread? It's not like Kat/Paz excludes all possibilities. She might be straight but still attracted to Paz, gay or bi. That's not even counting things like romantic attraction. |
|
|
|
Post by Toloc on May 18, 2014 16:23:27 GMT
Oh god, what a thread to Necro! What's wrong with having necro'd that thread? It's not like Kat/Paz excludes all possibilities. She might be straight but still attracted to Paz, gay or bi. That's not even counting things like romantic attraction. This thread... This thread was war, man. I don't know if you followed it a few months back, but for an otherwise quite pleasant board this one was ugly. Might even have resulted in some bans if memory serves right. Plus the usual problems with reopening a very old, very long thread with a post that doesn't add much to a discussion long over. That being said, you're absolutely right, more info about Paz would be really interesting; I've been hoping for some more background on her for the last couple of chapters. But that might be better discussed in a new thread. |
|
lit
Full Member
Posts: 201
|
Post by lit on May 21, 2014 14:16:23 GMT
I hope I didn't contribute too much to the unpleasantness.
I don't think there were any bans as a result of this thread, though. Just some around the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on May 23, 2014 1:25:38 GMT
What's wrong with having necro'd that thread? It's not like Kat/Paz excludes all possibilities. She might be straight but still attracted to Paz, gay or bi. That's not even counting things like romantic attraction. This thread... This thread was war, man. I don't know if you followed it a few months back, but for an otherwise quite pleasant board this one was ugly. Might even have resulted in some bans if memory serves right. Plus the usual problems with reopening a very old, very long thread with a post that doesn't add much to a discussion long over. That being said, you're absolutely right, more info about Paz would be really interesting; I've been hoping for some more background on her for the last couple of chapters. But that might be better discussed in a new thread. Oh, I see! Yeah, sorry about that; I'm used to necroing being fine on another board (with long-since finished canon) and didn't think. I'll have a look around for some newer discussion. I joined here a while ago and have been reading GC since last year, but I forgot about the forums till just recently, so I wasn't aware of the heated discussion.  |
|
|
|
Post by fwip on May 23, 2014 1:28:05 GMT
If this was war, what do you call what happens on other forums?
|
|
|
|
Post by Toloc on May 23, 2014 11:10:18 GMT
Granted, here it was war, on other boards it's Tuesday...
|
|
|
|
Post by Ophel on May 23, 2014 11:49:49 GMT
Well, as this board persists, my two cents:
I don't mind. Tom can do whatever he wants with the story as he sees fit.
After all, only Tom will tell. (heh. heh. see what I did there? eh? eh? heh.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 13:05:37 GMT
Wasn't there talk of Tom working on a side-comic in the vein of Annie in the Forest that would focus on Paz at home with her family in Galicia? I think there was.
(I hope she's going to be revealed as a Celta Vigo fan)
|
|
|
|
Post by KartoffelnMcNugget on May 23, 2014 16:03:26 GMT
Wasn't there talk of Tom working on a side-comic in the vein of Annie in the Forest that would focus on Paz at home with her family in Galicia? I think there was. (I hope she's going to be revealed as a Celta Vigo fan) Seems more like a Deportivo La Coruña fan...  Anyway, I think Tom confirmed a spin-off comic in his Twitter... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 17:11:13 GMT
I can never forgive Deportivo (and especially not Aldo Duscher) for defeating my AC Fiorentina 3-2 (with two goals by Aldo Duscher during the last five minutes) in an UEFA Cup final in Championship Manager 01/02.
Such is the power of childhood memories and/or being defeated by chance and computers (and Aldo Duscher).
|
|
|
|
Post by KartoffelnMcNugget on May 23, 2014 20:14:07 GMT
you lost against Deprotivo? DISHONOUR ON YOU (althought it was still a decent team over that years)
|
|
|
|
Post by skihemulen on Jul 22, 2014 17:48:32 GMT
Hi all,
I'm new(ish) to Gunnerkrigg court and just finished archive-binging on the whole thing (to explain the "ish", I actually read and enjoyed the early chapters many years ago, up to chapter 12 or thereabout, and then lost track of the comic and actually forgot most of it, so while rereading it was mostly new to me).
Sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead, but I really liked this subplot, and found it to be both engaging and a brave choice for the first major romance in this largely YA comic.
I have read most of this thread (right, can you believe it?) and here are some of my thoughts:
First: I've found Kat's reactions in the scene where Paz asked her out to be very convincing. It was really sweet to see how her confusion turns into a smile and then to a "yeah, okey". take notice that I thought it was convincing by itself. I didn't really notice the extensive foreshadowing this scene had in my readthrough. I know much of the discussion here was about the foreshadowing being too short, but I really didn't feel a thing like exploring your sexual orientation when you're 15 needs much foreshadowing. When reading on this thread how far back the foreshadowing goes my mind was blown!
And Paz is amazingly brave and eloquent in her confession of love. Go Paz!
Second: My feeling about Kat possibly being gay and about PazKat specifically? Great! They are adorbs, and I really like the way they tread carefully the line between "just hanging out" and being romantically involved, an ambiguity that seems super real to me.
Third: much of the discussion here was about the probability of Kat being a lesbian after her obvious crushes on guys. Well, several lesbian participants in the thread have stated that this portrayal reflects their experience, so there you have it.
Other than that, it's always good to remind people: Bisexuals Exist! So it really isn't an either/or situation at all.
I'm really interested to see where this will go, and also curious how it'll impact Annie.
Go Tom!
|
|
|
|
Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 22, 2014 18:21:49 GMT
Double Necro!!
I might as well add something. The whole Kat liking boys and Paz going after that one guy seemed extremely forced and unnatural. And anyway, did anyone actually think Kat was attracted to birds? Although I am hetero I can still relate, when I was eleven and twelve (just before puberty when several of my peers were already in the midst) I pretended to like girls. I pretended until I actually started liking girls at thirteen. Can't Kat do the same?
I suppose what this forum lacks in trolls, flame wars, ad general nastiness it makes up for in necromancy.
|
|
|
|
Post by skihemulen on Jul 22, 2014 18:52:53 GMT
I'm no necromancer! Just a humble insensitive Hemulen!  |
|
|
|
Post by GK Sierra on Jul 23, 2014 2:47:37 GMT
Knowing what we know now, this thread title makes me smile.
Good. We feel good about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Jul 23, 2014 2:55:08 GMT
Since this thread has been resurrected, it seems an appropriate place to plug another webcomic I have discovered recently and really like (in fact, having archive-binged it a few days ago, I'm now archive-binging it backward): Rain! Warning: if you are one of the strange people who decided that an exploratory same-sex relationship starting on page 1200 of Gunnerkrigg Court means the entire comic is all about lesbians and thus ruins the whole story, I don't think you'll like the story of Rain at all. You probably shouldn't even bother clicking the link. |
|
|
|
Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 23, 2014 3:30:55 GMT
^ Just flipped through that a bit, and it reads less like a story and more like a PSA on queer awareness.
|
|
|
|
Post by skihemulen on Jul 23, 2014 7:05:39 GMT
Since this thread has been resurrected, it seems an appropriate place to plug another webcomic I have discovered recently and really like (in fact, having archive-binged it a few days ago, I'm now archive-binging it backward): Rain! Hey, that's a cool webcomic! Binging! (gosh golly so much work to do. Gotta stop binging on webcomics and web serials...). |
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jul 23, 2014 7:13:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Señor Goose on Jul 23, 2014 7:43:20 GMT
Whoa, I thought this thread was long dead! Funny how that never really works out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jul 23, 2014 7:59:16 GMT
Whoa, I thought this thread was long dead! Funny how that never really works out. Yeah, it's kind of been limping along over time bah Also. |
|
)
