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Post by Gotolei on Nov 26, 2013 3:36:28 GMT
A wild OP-based discussion topic appears! hopefully =P
I'm liking the multiple-ether idea. Makes me wonder how many ethers there might be out there, can there be more than just those two?
If one's abilities don't seem to manifest to another, maybe their ethertypes are just incompatible with each other?
How much might the court be aware of, seeing as most (if not all) the students brought there supposedly have some kind of ability/potential, but a few of them seem quite ordinary as far as we've seen?
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Post by zimmyhoo on Nov 26, 2013 4:49:07 GMT
Well, I imagine the kings that don't do much, but would be important people. There are many endgames wherein material on the board is even, but one side's king activity tips the scales because, for example, a minor piece is denied an important square, or a passed pawn is stopped in its tracks. Likewise, there are many positions that appear lost, but are actually drawn by careful king maneuvers.On the whole, chess symbolism doesn't seem to fit Gunnerkrigg Court very well, if only because that would require Kat and Annie to be placed on opposite sides of the board. More importantly, chess requires several pieces to mirror each other. If we cast Parley as the rook, who would be her partner, Andrew or Eglamore? The former seems a strange choice for a piece that essentially serves as a battering ram; the latter would be identical in strength and hierarchy to his trainee. And who should fill the respective ranks on the Forest side? The chess theory is redeemed, though, by soundly re-establishing Ysengrin's position as the valiant, irreplacable Forest Queen. Oh ho ho. But don't you see? I'm all but dead positive that Annie and Kat will be opposed to each other. I hate it. I really do. But it makes sense from a literary and an emotional sense. Annie may not be entirely manipulated by Coyote yet, but to paraphrase something from above, it's only her natural scepticism and coolness that is keeping her that way. Kat is an gorram genius, and the fact that she's not be noticed by the Court at all has got to raise some heads. You'd have to think somebody, probably Anja, maybe even Jones, is deliberately trying to keep her flying under the radar - so what will happen when that mercy ends? Coyote's Bind, which Zimmy can still see on Annie's wrist, would not be introduced only to be forgotten. That's the perfect Chekov's gun, if I've ever seen one. Chances are, it's going to be used and broken (severing a limb, not just removed as before) on somebody else, probably Kat. Much more, I can't say for sure, but this is what I know is teetering on the edge of breaking down and pulling the plot with it. I just get the sense that Kat's a tragic character. I despise it, but it's beautiful from a literary perspective. don't hurt my katDaedalus What are you talking about? *Clearly*, there is nothing odd about my original post. I call your bluff. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 4:54:03 GMT
Daedalus What are you talking about? *Clearly*, there is nothing odd about my original post. I call your bluff. Two can play this game  there is absolutely nothing odd about my response either. |
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Post by The Anarch on Nov 26, 2013 4:55:39 GMT
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 4:55:44 GMT
A wild OP-based discussion topic appears! hopefully =PI'm liking the multiple-ether idea. Makes me wonder how many ethers there might be out there, can there be more than just those two? If one's abilities don't seem to manifest to another, maybe their ethertypes are just incompatible with each other? How much might the court be aware of, seeing as most (if not all) the students brought there supposedly have some kind of ability/potential, but a few of them seem quite ordinary as far as we've seen? Well, who is ordinary? Many have not been etheric, but nearly all are special somehow. Just looking at the cast page, the only 'normal' one so far is Winsbury. Perhaps he is actually Cthulu, in disguise. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 26, 2013 4:57:47 GMT
That's why I figure she'd be a pancake, not a muffin - she could become almost a living MacGuffin later in the story, though I'd have no clue why... Pardon? ...seconded. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 5:00:34 GMT
There are many endgames wherein material on the board is even, but one side's king activity tips the scales because, for example, a minor piece is denied an important square, or a passed pawn is stopped in its tracks. Likewise, there are many positions that appear lost, but are actually drawn by careful king maneuvers.On the whole, chess symbolism doesn't seem to fit Gunnerkrigg Court very well, if only because that would require Kat and Annie to be placed on opposite sides of the board. More importantly, chess requires several pieces to mirror each other. If we cast Parley as the rook, who would be her partner, Andrew or Eglamore? The former seems a strange choice for a piece that essentially serves as a battering ram; the latter would be identical in strength and hierarchy to his trainee. And who should fill the respective ranks on the Forest side? The chess theory is redeemed, though, by soundly re-establishing Ysengrin's position as the valiant, irreplacable Forest Queen. Oh ho ho. But don't you see? I'm all but dead positive that Annie and Kat will be opposed to each other. I hate it. I really do. But it makes sense from a literary and an emotional sense. Annie may not be entirely manipulated by Coyote yet, but to paraphrase something from above, it's only her natural scepticism and coolness that is keeping her that way. Kat is an gorram genius, and the fact that she's not be noticed by the Court at all has got to raise some heads. You'd have to think somebody, probably Anja, maybe even Jones, is deliberately trying to keep her flying under the radar - so what will happen when that mercy ends? Coyote's Bind, which Zimmy can still see on Annie's wrist, would not be introduced only to be forgotten. That's the perfect Chekov's gun, if I've ever seen one. Chances are, it's going to be used and broken (severing a limb, not just removed as before) on somebody else, probably Kat. Much more, I can't say for sure, but this is what I know is teetering on the edge of breaking down and pulling the plot with it. I just get the sense that Kat's a tragic character. I despise it, but it's beautiful from a literary perspective. don't hurt my katSummarizing: dark times are a'coming. Let's hope this is incorrect. But it's totally consistent and well-thought out. Uh oh. have mercy, Tom |
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 26, 2013 5:07:39 GMT
A Macguffin is an object within a story that becomes absolutely vital to the plot. The Ring from LotR, Boo from Monsters Inc., the Master Sword from all but a few Legend of Zelda games, for instance. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 5:12:15 GMT
A Macguffin is an object within a story that becomes absolutely vital to the plot. The Ring from LotR, Boo from Monsters Inc., the Master Sword from all but a few Legend of Zelda games, for instance. And pancakes and muffins are tasty pastries. So, back to the topic at hand... |
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Post by The Anarch on Nov 26, 2013 5:18:36 GMT
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Post by nightwind on Nov 26, 2013 5:21:17 GMT
I disagree. What we've seen so far is less having cyberspace in the head and more an Adept with a Skill Focus on understanding and building robots.  |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 5:24:34 GMT
To round out the list: Jan is a ridiculously good archer (I've been doing archery recently; new appreciation has been gained) Paz talks to animals (obviously) Zimmy is a reality-bender Gamma is an etheric hat sink (EDIT: heat sink, rofl) Parley teleports and may gain psychic powers in the future Smitty desecrates thermodynamics and is ridiculously photogenic Red and Blue are fairies and do fairy things Jack flies (sort of) and has techno-powers Winsbury does seem the odd one out. In any cliche-loving story, it means he's the one who will destroy the world. (am I missing anyone?) I disagree. What we've seen so far is less having cyberspace in the head and more an Adept with a Skill Focus on understanding and building robots. She appears to be considering mind-machine melds here. But, currently, she seems to have the Spark, to borrow applicable terminology. I repeat my desire for a GirlGenius/Gunnerkrigg crossover. |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 26, 2013 5:32:30 GMT
Janet is also good at archery. (hmm.) And ordinary, meaning, that we haven't seen. Ie. John and Margo, aside from dealing with the haunted mandolin thing, don't seem to have any outward qualities from what I remember seeing. Also Matt. Not that the wiki's particularly quotable but it lists N/A for his special ability..? We haven't really seen much of him, or even know his last name for that matter, but who knows. Edit: there has to be a faster way to quote multiple people Personally I like middle-clicking the "quote" button to get multiple replies in multiple tabs, then copy all the stuff to one tab (10x easier to copy the bbcode, btw). There's also a "select" thingy in the gear menu, then the reply button. Third is some kinda alt-click thing? |
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Post by The Anarch on Nov 26, 2013 5:33:40 GMT
I disagree. What we've seen so far is less having cyberspace in the head and more an Adept with a Skill Focus on understanding and building robots. Ah, but that's only because they don't have a full, comprehensive Matrix network in the Court for her to go mindsurfing. She can still see into the LANs of the various robots and other systems around her, which accounts for her ability to more readily comprehend how they work. It would also explain how she's able to get what of Diego's code she can just by looking at it, because she can access it directly with her mind. She needs a great deal more training up, obviously! If she were an adept, I would think she would have a very bright astral form that Annie would have commented on. Though it may be that the machine mother form that Zimmy sees is that form and it's masked somehow where only super-powerful Zimmy takes notice of it. Still, I think she's much more likely to be a technomancer with a specialty in drone rigging. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 5:35:46 GMT
Janet is also good at archery. (hmm.) And ordinary, meaning, that we haven't seen. Ie. John and Margo, aside from dealing with the haunted mandolin thing, don't seem to have any outward qualities from what I remember seeing. Also Matt. Not that the wiki's particularly quotable but it lists N/A for his special ability..? We've really seen much of him, or even know his last name for that matter, but who knows. Forgot John and Margo. John at least has an awesome name. I don't even remember who Matt is. And yeah, Janet has the Steadman skills. Hitting an arrow in flight (or a tiny target at the bottom of the Annan Waters, for that matter, in Steadman's case) shouldn't be humanly possible. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 26, 2013 5:39:13 GMT
A Macguffin is an object within a story that becomes absolutely vital to the plot. The Ring from LotR, Boo from Monsters Inc., the Master Sword from all but a few Legend of Zelda games, for instance. Some sources (like Alfred Hitchcock, iirc) add that a true macguffin drives the plot by the fact that everyone wants to have it, but doesn't affect the plot otherwise. It's completely interchangeable. For example, the plot of The Maltese Falcon would have played out exactly the same if you had replaced the Falcon with a briefcase full of diamonds, so it's a macguffin. And in Pulp Fiction, the briefcase is such a macguffin that we, the viewers, never discover what's actually in the briefcase. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 5:40:44 GMT
I disagree. What we've seen so far is less having cyberspace in the head and more an Adept with a Skill Focus on understanding and building robots. Ah, but that's only because they don't have a full, comprehensive Matrix network in the Court for her to go mindsurfing. She can still see into the LANs of the various robots and other systems around her, which accounts for her ability to more readily comprehend how they work. It would also explain how she's able to get what of Diego's code she can just by looking at it, because she can access it directly with her mind. She needs a great deal more training up, obviously! If she were an adept, I would think she would have a very bright astral form that Annie would have commented on. Though it may be that the machine mother form that Zimmy sees is that form and it's masked somehow where only super-powerful Zimmy takes notice of it. Still, I think she's much more likely to be a technomancer with a specialty in drone rigging. The Spark is a legitimate ability. And why not both? The ability to tinker naturally leads to building a mind-machine interface, as she is contemplating here. Now, that would be foreshadowing. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 26, 2013 5:41:23 GMT
It's diamonds, but Yeah, that too.
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Post by The Anarch on Nov 26, 2013 5:49:47 GMT
Because you either have Magic or Resonance or neither . . . never both!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 6:13:16 GMT
Oh ho ho. But don't you see? I'm all but dead positive that Annie and Kat will be opposed to each other. I hate it. I really do. But it makes sense from a literary and an emotional sense. Annie may not be entirely manipulated by Coyote yet, but to paraphrase something from above, it's only her natural scepticism and coolness that is keeping her that way. Kat is an gorram genius, and the fact that she's not be noticed by the Court at all has got to raise some heads. (...) Much more, I can't say for sure, but this is what I know is teetering on the edge of breaking down and pulling the plot with it. I just get the sense that Kat's a tragic character. Chess pieces cannot change their colour, so Annie and Kat would have to be either allies or enemies from the get-go. The role of a medium, the creation and existence of Jones and the story of Jeanne all don't seem to fit the confrontational dualism of chess. The »knight and bishop« comment, taken at face value, would reinforce three points without establishing a grand scheme of chess symbolism: 1. Both Antimony and Kat are minor pieces in a larger game. 2. Their abilities and movement style are different, but approximately equal in value. 3. Whoever is the Knight is more effective when placed in the center, and can jump rather trickily over any obstacle. Whoever is the Bishop has a potentially long reach, but may be boxed in by unfortunately-placed allies, and is typically stronger when paired with the allied bishop, if the enemy have lost their pair. (Also, knights tend to fork better than bishops, but are unable to pin anything.) Moreover, knights and bishops seem to imply »wordly« and »spiritual« opposites; a quick look at history disproves that. The Archbishops of Köln, Mainz and Trier were among the Prince-Electors of the Holy Roman Empire, for example, and the Reformation in its earliest stages was notably pushed along by many »worldly« lords, including the Duke of Prussia — formerly the Catholic Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order. The analogy falls apart very fast when we take the early Iranian game into consideration, with the bishops turning into elephants (picture that) and queens becoming near-worthless viziers with the immeasurable power to move one square diagonally. On a different note, the German names for knight and bishop translate as »jumper« and »runner«. I despise it, but it's beautiful from a literary perspective. I don't understand what you mean by that. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 26, 2013 9:48:11 GMT
Oh ho ho. But don't you see? I'm all but dead positive that Annie and Kat will be opposed to each other. I hate it. I really do. But it makes sense from a literary and an emotional sense. Annie may not be entirely manipulated by Coyote yet, but to paraphrase something from above, it's only her natural scepticism and coolness that is keeping her that way. Kat is an gorram genius, and the fact that she's not be noticed by the Court at all has got to raise some heads. You'd have to think somebody, probably Anja, maybe even Jones, is deliberately trying to keep her flying under the radar - so what will happen when that mercy ends? Coyote's Bind, which Zimmy can still see on Annie's wrist, would not be introduced only to be forgotten. That's the perfect Chekov's gun, if I've ever seen one. Chances are, it's going to be used and broken (severing a limb, not just removed as before) on somebody else, probably Kat. Much more, I can't say for sure, but this is what I know is teetering on the edge of breaking down and pulling the plot with it. I just get the sense that Kat's a tragic character. I despise it, but it's beautiful from a literary perspective. don't hurt my katSummarizing: dark times are a'coming. Let's hope this is incorrect. But it's totally consistent and well-thought out. Uh oh. have mercy, TomLet's not, because I can see this scenario in my head too and like hoo said, it is beautiful from a literary perspective. It is also really sad.  But sad is kind of good, too. When literature is really sad it also really touches you. You don't want it to end and you don't want it to go any further. And you want it to continue and you don't want to see anymore and it kills you! ...and that sort of is the best it can get. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 14:24:27 GMT
Summarizing: dark times are a'coming. Let's hope this is incorrect. But it's totally consistent and well-thought out. Uh oh. have mercy, TomLet's not, because I can see this scenario in my head too and like hoo said, it is beautiful from a literary perspective. It is also really sad. But sad is kind of good, too. When literature is really sad it also really touches you. You don't want it to end and you don't want it to go any further. And you want it to continue and you don't want to see anymore and it kills you! ...and that sort of is the best it can get. See, this is my problem: I invest myself way too far into the story. I got really depressed when Coyote turned to his evil self and stole Ys's memory. Took me 3 weeks to get over it, or at least stop obsessing over it. Conversely, when Annie and Ys worked things out recently, I was so happy that I was cheerful for a week. If Kat were to die, or a similarly terrible event were to happen, I would probably stop reading the comic to preserve my sanity. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 26, 2013 15:40:43 GMT
Really? I got oddly giddy when Annie and Ysen made up too.
If Kat were to die... It would probably throw a hurricane through things. Has anyone died during the duration of the comic? That wasn't like... A flashback or something. Like Jeanne doesn't count because she's still there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 16:19:27 GMT
Has anyone died during the duration of the comic? That wasn't like... A flashback or something. Like Jeanne doesn't count because she's still there. Surma has died. Daniel has died. Sivo died once and for all when Reynardine left his body. Ysengrin seems to be dying. The shadow that had possessed Robot was ripped apart by Eglamore's magic sword, and one of the birds that carried Annie to safety suffered fatal damage. The boy in the hospital who had played with fire died along with his family. That creepy robot geezer of the first generation was shut down forever by Kat. A poor watchrobot ate a crowbar to the cranium in Spring Heeled. Hetty might be dead, who knows. The vast majority of people that Jones knows are very much deceased. Edit: I didn't think of this as a dumb question. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 26, 2013 16:42:30 GMT
Has anyone died during the duration of the comic? That wasn't like... A flashback or something. Like Jeanne doesn't count because she's still there. Surma has died. Daniel has died. Sivo died once and for all when Reynardine left his body. Ysengrin seems to be dying. The shadow that had possessed Robot was ripped apart by Eglamore's magic sword, and one of the birds that carried Annie to safety suffered fatal damage. The boy in the hospital who had played with fire died along with his family. That creepy robot geezer of the first generation was shut down forever by Kat. A poor watchrobot ate a crowbar to the cranium in Spring Heeled. Hetty might be dead, who knows. The vast majority of people that Jones knows are very much deceased. Oh... Sorry, that was a dumb question. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 26, 2013 16:53:50 GMT
Surma has died. Daniel has died. Sivo died once and for all when Reynardine left his body. Ysengrin seems to be dying. The shadow that had possessed Robot was ripped apart by Eglamore's magic sword, and one of the birds that carried Annie to safety suffered fatal damage. The boy in the hospital who had played with fire died along with his family. That creepy robot geezer of the first generation was shut down forever by Kat. A poor watchrobot ate a crowbar to the cranium in Spring Heeled. Hetty might be dead, who knows. The vast majority of people that Jones knows are very much deceased. Oh... Sorry, that was a dumb question. Perhaps it would be accurate to say no one has died that we cared about personally. Ysengrin may be dying, though. Which would be sad. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 26, 2013 16:57:44 GMT
Let's not, because I can see this scenario in my head too and like hoo said, it is beautiful from a literary perspective. It is also really sad. But sad is kind of good, too. When literature is really sad it also really touches you. You don't want it to end and you don't want it to go any further. And you want it to continue and you don't want to see anymore and it kills you! ...and that sort of is the best it can get. See, this is my problem: I invest myself way too far into the story. I got really depressed when Coyote turned to his evil self and stole Ys's memory. Took me 3 weeks to get over it, or at least stop obsessing over it. Isn't that just the best?! Conversely, when Annie and Ys worked things out recently, I was so happy that I was cheerful for a week. Every relationship has its ups and downs. Congratulations, you're having them with a web comic, in a totally serious manner. If Kat were to die, or a similarly terrible event were to happen, I would probably stop reading the comic to preserve my sanity. You would not. You just would not. And that's because when it is so good that it can break your heart, you just have to let it break it. Isn't that just the mark of quality: a piece of a stranger's imagination put on paper can break your heart. Ain't that what you are looking for? Don't tell me you aren't. You are by now. |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 26, 2013 17:01:42 GMT
Surma has died. Daniel has died. Sivo died once and for all when Reynardine left his body. Ysengrin seems to be dying. The shadow that had possessed Robot was ripped apart by Eglamore's magic sword, and one of the birds that carried Annie to safety suffered fatal damage. The boy in the hospital who had played with fire died along with his family. That creepy robot geezer of the first generation was shut down forever by Kat. A poor watchrobot ate a crowbar to the cranium in Spring Heeled. Hetty might be dead, who knows. The vast majority of people that Jones knows are very much deceased. Oh... Sorry, that was a dumb question. Just be glad it's not like Homestuck or something, where ~9/10 of the main characters die at least once >.< At least in GKC it's possible to run off a list like that and be pretty sure you haven't missed anyone.. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Nov 26, 2013 18:13:23 GMT
Oh... Sorry, that was a dumb question. Just be glad it's not like Homestuck or something, where ~9/10 of the main characters die at least once >.< At least in GKC it's possible to run off a list like that and be pretty sure you haven't missed anyone.. Wrong, it's 10/10 (+-.02) now. Oh ho ho. But don't you see? I'm all but dead positive that Annie and Kat will be opposed to each other. I hate it. I really do. But it makes sense from a literary and an emotional sense. Annie may not be entirely manipulated by Coyote yet, but to paraphrase something from above, it's only her natural scepticism and coolness that is keeping her that way. Kat is an gorram genius, and the fact that she's not be noticed by the Court at all has got to raise some heads. (...) Much more, I can't say for sure, but this is what I know is teetering on the edge of breaking down and pulling the plot with it. I just get the sense that Kat's a tragic character. Chess pieces cannot change their colour, so Annie and Kat would have to be either allies or enemies from the get-go. The role of a medium, the creation and existence of Jones and the story of Jeanne all don't seem to fit the confrontational dualism of chess. The »knight and bishop« comment, taken at face value, would reinforce three points without establishing a grand scheme of chess symbolism: 1. Both Antimony and Kat are minor pieces in a larger game. 2. Their abilities and movement style are different, but approximately equal in value. 3. Whoever is the Knight is more effective when placed in the center, and can jump rather trickily over any obstacle. Whoever is the Bishop has a potentially long reach, but may be boxed in by unfortunately-placed allies, and is typically stronger when paired with the allied bishop, if the enemy have lost their pair. (Also, knights tend to fork better than bishops, but are unable to pin anything.) Moreover, knights and bishops seem to imply »wordly« and »spiritual« opposites; a quick look at history disproves that. The Archbishops of Köln, Mainz and Trier were among the Prince-Electors of the Holy Roman Empire, for example, and the Reformation in its earliest stages was notably pushed along by many »worldly« lords, including the Duke of Prussia — formerly the Catholic Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order. The analogy falls apart very fast when we take the early Iranian game into consideration, with the bishops turning into elephants (picture that) and queens becoming near-worthless viziers with the immeasurable power to move one square diagonally. On a different note, the German names for knight and bishop translate as »jumper« and »runner«. The thing is, the evidence garnered from a loose metaphor made *not in canon*, and then extrapolated to a larger extent by the fandom should never be taken more seriously than what's right in front of your face, directly in the plot. If GK was Homestuck, and the chess motif was stronger, in the canon, and played plot importance, then that prediction made from that metaphor would be probably important and correct. However, the association between the kings and bishop, and the *worldly* and *spiritual* connotations would be pretty awesome and rather plot evident, if not for everything you listed later about history. Who knows though, perhaps Tom didn't consider that when he made his off-hand comment. I despise it, but it's beautiful from a literary perspective. I don't understand what you mean by that. The fact that these two close friends will end up bitterly opposing each other, *neither by their own violation*, but as unwilling players in a game between Coyote and the Headmaster?, as well as the parallels that they hold for each other, and possibly Kat for Coyote (remember what the OP was, way way back there?) is heartwrenching but a beautiful story. Like I said, I really wish happy endings for everyone, but if you look at the evidence in the plot (my quote) - it's hardly a stretch by any means, I'm just stating what we see, not what we can infer - there's no way that I can see this ending well. To drop all the foreshadowing and write fluff is shoddy writing, and Tom would not do that. There's a dark plot ahead, I'm certain. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Nov 26, 2013 18:15:52 GMT
;_;
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there is absolutely nothing odd about my response either.
