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Post by hal9000 on Jan 9, 2011 9:10:46 GMT
You know, I'm not sure about that. We haven't seen the possession or the circumstances surrounding it, we've just heard second-hand accounts of what transpired. I'm wondering if they didn't somehow create a dangerous situation trying to lure him over. Also, if someone else had stolen his heart, it's possible they would have defected to the Forest instead of having it the other way around. On that same note, we haven't seen the entirety of Surma's deception of Renard, just second-hand accounts of what transpired. Yes, but my point was that his reasons for what he did may have been a result of the circumstances created by the Court's attempt to get him over to their side, and therefore not necessarily the probable outcome in all similar situations. While he has made some bad decisions in the past (that possesion included), for the most part he hasn't expressed any desire to threaten the court or its interests. Based on that, I don't think their mistrust of him is entirely reasonable.
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Post by warrl on Jan 9, 2011 9:26:31 GMT
...i made an account just to say this... ... i cannot believe what i'm reading here. I read some thread here because i was interested in the speculation, but it looks like i'm almost the only one here who actually read the comic. The Court is the very reason why Jeanne is stuck down there. They killed her/her lover. Maybe you need to read the comic to understand this. Yes, a very long time ago the Court put Jeanne down there... and destroyed or buried all record of her. Except for the bit that Diego put in his robots, and that in turn was carefully concealed and protected by the robots. Those people, who were the Court at that time, are all dead. Long ago. The people who are the Court today, know nothing about Jeanne except what Annie has discovered, and didn't know it before Annie told them. (Or at least, this is true as far as we have been shown. Not once has Annie learned anything about Jeanne from another living human. She has specifically inquired at least once, too.)
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Post by todd on Jan 9, 2011 11:34:17 GMT
Maybe you need to read the comic to understand this. While I also find it frustrating when someone posts something here which suggests they hadn't been following the story too closely, let's remember a few things: 1. This is a long complex story with many threads; many people might find it hard to keep track of everything. 2. It also contains enough distractions (Boxbot, the Spacemonaut simulations, pop culture references, etc.) to draw readers' attention away from the main story. Look at how often discussion of a page focuses on these matters rather than on how the events on it advance the plot or our understanding of the characters.
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Post by warrl on Jan 9, 2011 13:04:45 GMT
Your direct evidence is Coyote saying that Ysengrim - not Coyote - hates humans in general - not the Court specifically. Your hint, I find no hint in. Coyote's most blatant overt act (that we know of) was to protect the Forest and the Court from each other. He then chose to stay on the Forest side - but he'd hardly have been welcomed on the Court side, considering that he was (and probably still is) more powerful by himself than the entire Court combined. Further, as the Court became firmly established, it would need less protection from the Forest - and be more of a threat to the Forest. Coyote, by his mere presence on the Forest side and the fear of what he might do, makes the Court respect the boundary. Despite what the Court thinks, I don't believe Coyote bears them any ill will at all. Sure, if they encroach on the Forest he'll slap them down - and the next day teach one of their kids how to fly. He gave Reynard a power, not so that the latter could infiltrate and undermine the Court on Coyote's behalf, but so that he could enter the court on Reynard's own errand (which was the chasing of a foxy tail - hardly something unfamiliar or nefarious). Maybe you need to read the comic to understand this. While I also find it frustrating when someone posts something here which suggests they hadn't been following the story too closely The only reason I said that was because the person I was quoting was essentially claiming to be the only one who read and remembered the comic...
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Post by hifranc on Jan 9, 2011 22:06:56 GMT
Your direct evidence is Coyote saying that Ysengrim - not Coyote - hates humans in general - not the Court specifically. [...] Despite what the Court thinks, I don't believe Coyote bears them any ill will at all. Sure, if they encroach on the Forest he'll slap them down - and the next day teach one of their kids how to fly. I agree mostly with that but, considering that Ysengrim is, in effect, the number 2 in the forest, he does hold a lot of power. Not only that but there are hints that the other members of the forest also hold similar attitudes (for example, I think the shadow was shocked to find that the other shadows in the forest had similar views). No, he had been offering his powers to Reynard for a while. It was only after he fell for Surma that he decided he wanted something: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=794www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=495www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=497We don't know why Coyote wanted to give his powers to Reynard.
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Post by jayne on Jan 9, 2011 22:59:12 GMT
I've a theory that Coyote wanted to give Rey powers so Coyote would have someone more of an equal, (but not THAT equal of course) He just wanted a peer.
Then Rey goes and spoils it all by using his power to get Surma... he was supposed to stay and instead he goes off chasing a skirt and gets himself caught!?
Coyote: "HA, serves him right... I'll give just give a power to Ysengrin... lets see... he's always been fond of trees... he sniffs around them enough!"
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jan 10, 2011 4:36:51 GMT
On that same note, we haven't seen the entirety of Surma's deception of Renard, just second-hand accounts of what transpired. Yes, but my point was that his reasons for what he did may have been a result of the circumstances created by the Court's attempt to get him over to their side, and therefore not necessarily the probable outcome in all similar situations. While he has made some bad decisions in the past (that possesion included), for the most part he hasn't expressed any desire to threaten the court or its interests. Based on that, I don't think their mistrust of him is entirely reasonable. Well, I was trying to bring the discussion back to an earlier point of the derail. If we can't be too certain about what exactly went down when Surma led Rey on, then we also can't be absolutely certain that the Court intended to preemptively imprison Rey. Which means that we can't assume that the Court's current administration would hold a similar attitude of brutal pragmatism towards Jeanne's predicament.
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