Eddy
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by Eddy on Nov 15, 2010 9:55:03 GMT
Best case scenario: Kat walks in, finds Annie going over her HW, is understanding and offers to tutor Annie in the sciences in exchange for Annie teaching her a little about the etheric world. Nobody gets in trouble and both expand their horizons.
Worst case scenario: Kat walks in. Massive freakout. Problems ensue.
Sucks to be Annie, though. I really hope that she gets some academic help soon.
I wonder if she had any schooling before Gunnerkrigg? Didn't she stay in the hospital with her mom from a fairly early age?
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Post by rafk on Nov 15, 2010 9:59:03 GMT
I really, really hope it's Jones or Parley who catch her doing this (about the only two people besides Kat who I could see entering Kat's room unannounced and surprising Annie).
Cheating on answers in school, depending on how important it is and how often she does it, is one thing. Violation of trust is another- I mean, she's got Kat's book out of Kat's bag in Kat's room to nick the product of Kat's work... and worst of all, I doubt Kat would say no if Annie had actually asked first...
And I think Annie feels bad about doing this (hence the let's-get-this-over-with expression in panel 3) but obviously no so badly as to bother doing her pre-holiday homework "legit".
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:59:44 GMT
But like everyone else pointed at, the fact that Kat is academically inclined, a genius, and probably writes down more than people actually need to on homework thus resulting in some pretty amazing papers or just homework assignments, shows Annie is pretty much stealing ideas, I can't think of another reason to be tempted to cheat off of Kat. If they were at an even playing field she could just as easily ask for Kat for help on homework, but since she isn't, I suspect something more malicious. she was copying answers down during a science lab. To be clear, those aren't essays about the theoretical ramifications of the double-slit experiment, and she is not ripping off Kat's thesis. Those are numbers that are presumably attached to math problems. Since Kat is primarily scientifically inclined, I expect that this is a similar situation. |
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 10:02:00 GMT
There's still the thing point about her not even asking Kat about this. It seems to me to denote a certain lack of respect when someone doesn't even bother to ask for the other person's opinion on the subject before doing something like this. I interpreted it more as a sign that Annie is somewhat ashamed of needing to cheat than a sign that Annie doesn't respect Kat. |
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Post by kalechibki on Nov 15, 2010 10:08:40 GMT
The first three panels are virtually identical to the first three of 796. Cute. edit: Max, I'm pretty sure the expression on her face has nothing to do with Jack I would say that the major difference is that she looks a lot more INTENSE in the third panel of page 800 than she did in 796. Maybe she realizes that she is running out of time? I think this is also the link between the Reynard & Surma flashback (beyond just simply more background material), and the rest of the chapter. In the beginning, we have Surma deceiving Rey, and now, we have Annie going behind Kat's back. This, to me, seems a whole 'nother level than what was done before. The tend to gloss over negative things, and so I know that unless I remind myself of Annie cheating, I forget that those things happened. But, somehow, this still seems far worse than the other cheating incident we know about. This seems to have had far more premeditation than even the stolen photo. Regarding the cheating in the lab comments from others, my AP chem teacher caught me doing this at the end of my senior year...I was very happy that 1) she didn't blame my lab partners and 2) didn't send me to the disciplinarian a month before I graduated from High School. And now that I am a high school teacher (like Mikey), yeah, I see this from a whole new light too. It's especially bad when your students try to cheat off of you as the teacher. Wonder where this is all leading too...it really almost makes me wonder if Annie has been using Kat like Sumra used Rey's affections... |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 10:13:16 GMT
(emphasis mine) One big thing to keep Kat from thinking that is the fact that she's the one who sought Annie's friendship. Another thing that should stop Kat from thinking Annie is just using her for grades is the fact that those kinds of friendships tend to not be nearly as close as Kat and Annie are. If your intention in making a friend is to use that friend to get good grades, he or she won't end up being your best friend with whom you spend most of your time and whom you confide in regularly. Friendships for grades are much more superficial than that. Also, the fact that Kat has never had a friend at the Court before Annie does not make her more likely to want to dissolve that relationship. When you have few friends, you usually try to keep the ones you have. But let me point out another consideration: when you have a few friends, you find that the trust given to such few precious people matters in a quite significant manner. The trust of people with few friends is often not given easily. Which means that they take violations of trust very, very seriously. Just because it was Kat who sought Annie out does not change the fact that Annie still went behind her back, snuck into her room, and is planning to cheat off of her notes without her knowledge. Like it or not, that's a breach in trust. Now, forgive me if I'm making a mistaken assumption here, but you seem not to think it qualifies as such because you, personally, do not find homework that personally important that a friend secretly cheating off of it is a non-issue? If so, fair enough. However, remember that what is considered "personal" varies between individuals. You might not find some equations or whatnot a personal matter, and that's that. However, to people who take pride, even joy, on managing to figure out their science/maths/whatever homework on their own? Those can be quite complex, and figuring them out for oneself can yield a powerful sense of accomplishment for people inclined to think that way. Yes, the mere fact of knowing what F equals can be a very personal matter. Now, consider that and remember that this is Kat. The Kat who takes pride in her technical skills and has repeatedly shown enthusiasm for science and her academic performance. She has shown pride and a sense of accomplishment in the scientific stuff she's managed to achieve. Would she be the kind of person who'd take the matter of knowing what F equals personally? Likely. But, like I said, we won't know how Kat reacts unless we're shown. Kat not making such a big deal out of this is still as much a possibility as her being hurt and angry about this given what we know of her personality. Kat can take a while to let go of her anger. I'm just considering the second possibility. |
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 10:15:25 GMT
Wonder where this is all leading too...it really almost makes me wonder if Annie has been using Kat like Sumra used Rey's affections... ...No, she hasn't. Annie confides in Kat, worries about Kat's well being, and does what she can to make Kat happy because they are extremely close friends. She also seems to copy off of Kat's homework. Surma, on the other hand, (apparently) flirted with Rey in order to set up a honey pot. The two situations are nothing alike. |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 10:28:51 GMT
Wonder where this is all leading too...it really almost makes me wonder if Annie has been using Kat like Sumra used Rey's affections... I wouldn't go that far. This is poor judgement by Annie, to be sure. But her secretly cheating off of a friend does not mean that she's that callous. It's a realistic flaw, and one that's plausible for someone like Annie. But that's just it--a personal flaw. By itself, the flaw doesn't make her a bitch who only uses people for personal gain and doesn't care about them at all. it doesn't even make her a bad person. Just a teenager who made a decision that might not be so good in retrospect. |
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 10:36:30 GMT
But let me point out another consideration: when you have a few friends, you find that the trust given to such few precious people matters in a quite significant manner. The trust of people with few friends is often not given easily. Which means that they take violations of trust very, very seriously. Just because it was Kat who sought Annie out does not change the fact that Annie still went behind her back, snuck into her room, and is planning to cheat off of her notes without her knowledge. This is a good point. Yes and no. You are correct in saying that I don't find homework a very personally important thing, and therefore I do not care about people copying off of me. However, I also tend to see the act of hording notes or answers in scientific and math-based subjects to be absolutely ridiculous on a more philosophic level. You may not have guessed it after reading my posts supporting cheating and decrying homework, but I love science, and I do feel a sense of accomplishment in figuring out problems. That said, I also feel a sense of accomplishment in helping others find the answers to those problems. To me, finding out what F equals isn't as important as sharing what F equals and helping others to understand why F happens to equal that. F isn't a personal thing; Isaac Newton explained what it equaled centuries ago, and there's no reason not to share that information. I don't care if someone looks at my notes or copies my work because that can help them understand physics a little better. The same goes with calculus, algebra, and any of the other hard sciences. If I tell someone the answers to math or science questions, that can help them understand why those are the answers. I never understood those students who guarded their work religiously, since I've always felt that scientific understanding is something to be shared. If someone asks me what F equals, I'm giving them the answer, then explaining why. Of course, if it's not math or science, then it's a different story. Unless it's grammar, which is also something to be shared liberally. And I definitely didn't care if someone copied my answers on subjects that were more about memorization than actual knowledge and comprehension. |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 10:42:39 GMT
Fair enough.
But my point still stands. Some people do get very personal and guarded about hoarding notes. And dislike it if they think other people don't bother to put in as much effort as they do and only take advantage of their own accomplishment. I live with one--my little brother (who Kat reminds me of, admittedly). I've taught several. I'm just saying that given all we know of Kat, she might not take this so well. But it's possible that she might be more understanding. There's support for either possibility, and I'm arguing from the standpoint of the factors that might support the former.
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Post by Alexandragon on Nov 15, 2010 10:57:44 GMT
Oh, Annie... Her "Mask" as always perfect...
And poor, poor Jack.
P.S.: Look at the poster on 6th window.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 10:59:53 GMT
Oh, Annie... Her "Mask" as always perfect... And poor, poor Jack. P.S.: Look at the poster on 6th window. ? EDIT: And now I can't stop humming the theme tune. |
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jandor
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by jandor on Nov 15, 2010 11:02:59 GMT
Strange that the rooms have windows when its perpetually black outside.
Anyone else think that Annie might get away with cheating? That's not too improbable.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 11:05:14 GMT
The only thing I actually find shocking about the idea of Annie cheating off of Kat is the implication that Kat hasn't leapt at the chance to help her friend out in class. I have trouble believing that anyone who enjoys double physics as much as she does wouldn't jump at the chance to talk about it. I guess Annie's too proud to admit that she needs help to Kat.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 11:05:49 GMT
Strange that the rooms have windows when its perpetually black outside. Anyone else think that Annie might get away with cheating? That's not too improbable. Well, she did before, so that's also possible. The previous discussion just bloomed from the possibility of Kat walking in on her since it is Kat's room and all that. The only thing I actually find shocking about the idea of Annie cheating off of Kat is the implication that Kat hasn't leapt at the chance to help her friend out in class. I have trouble believing that anyone who enjoys double physics as much as she does wouldn't jump at the chance to talk about it. I guess Annie's too proud to admit that she needs help to Kat. Oh, I have no trouble believing Kat would quite happily help Annie if she'd ask. Thing is, I don't think she ever did. Other than pride or shame, Annie's never had a friend before and from what we've seen she's highly self-reliant. She might simply find it very difficult to ask for assistance since it goes against every self-reliant bone in her body. Wouldn't be the first time she's tried to go at it alone. And who's to say Kat hasn't talked about it? She's enthusiastic enough to do so about a subject she enjoys. But would Annie understand it? Kat may simply be talking about it with all the enthusiasm she can muster without stopping to explain any technical terms or complicated concepts. Annie being Annie, she'd just politely stay silent and let Kat go on and on even if all she's hearing is "jargon jargon babble babble strange words." |
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Post by joephlommin on Nov 15, 2010 11:33:43 GMT
Is it just me or are the people in the posters looking disapprovingly at Annie?
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Post by lewodarkfluffy on Nov 15, 2010 11:54:06 GMT
Why does every one here look as if cheating is a sin?(I am very smart ,I still cheat of my friends, well I just snatch there paper and say "WHATS NUMBER 14?!?") LAUGHING ON LINE, what I think is going to happen is Kat is going to walk in with annie cheating off her answers.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 15, 2010 12:03:43 GMT
Why does every one here look as if cheating is a sin?(I am very smart ,I still cheat of my friends, well I just snatch there paper and say "WHATS NUMBER 14?!?") LAUGHING ON LINE, what I think is going to happen is Kat is going to walk in with annie cheating off her answers. "Cheating is bad" is not exactly a controversial or rare position. If you want more detailed arguments as to why, the wiki article explains it pretty well. Edit: specifically, the 'effects' section of that article. |
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Post by jayne on Nov 15, 2010 12:22:50 GMT
What if Annie is actually helping Kat with her homework by looking over something for her? Annie is weak in physics but there's more to school than just physics. She could be proofreading a story for Kat?
Yeah, I don't buy that either.
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Post by jayne on Nov 15, 2010 12:47:07 GMT
Why does every one (everyone) here look (act) as if cheating is a sin?(I am very smart ,I (smart, I) still cheat of (off) my friends, well (friends. Well,) I (would) just snatch there (their) paper and say "WHATS NUMBER 14?!?") LAUGHING ON LINE, what (What) I think is going to happen is Kat is going to walk in with Annie cheating off her answers. I would help my friends proofread their papers.  |
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Post by penguinfactory on Nov 15, 2010 12:49:11 GMT
Can I just say how happy I am that Tom put this element into the story? Main characters with flaws- and I mean real, actual flaws, not "oh she's so clumsy, but it actually just makes her more endearing!" are in short supply, especially in webcomics.
I do think some people are reading a bit too much into this, though. To me all this indicates is that Annie is being irresponsible, as people her age are wont to do. I don't think it means that she's using Kat or anything.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 12:58:48 GMT
I do think some people are reading a bit too much into this, though. To me all this indicates is that Annie is being irresponsible, as people her age are wont to do. I don't think it means that she's using Kat or anything. Note that only one poster suggested that Annie might be using Kat. Most of the previous discussion has been on how Kat might react if she found out about Annie secretly cheating from her. |
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 15, 2010 13:01:24 GMT
Can I just say how happy I am that Tom put this element into the story? Main characters with flaws- and I mean real, actual flaws, not "oh she's so clumsy, but it actually just makes her more endearing!" are in short supply, especially in webcomics. I do think some people are reading a bit too much into this, though. To me all this indicates is that Annie is being irresponsible, as people her age are wont to do. I don't think it means that she's using Kat or anything. I don't think anyone here has seriously argued that, though one person has speculated about it. I think the general tone is more along the lines of 'she's making a bad decision here and if kat walked in and found out she could jump to some unfortunate conclusions about the nature of their relationship'. Also, an anonymous poster on 4chan's /co/ had an interesting thought: what if Kat knows about this and Annie opens an otherwise empty notebook with a note telling her to cut it out? Seems unlikely, I know, but I thought it was an interesting idea. |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 13:05:19 GMT
Also, an anonymous poster on 4chan's /co/ had an interesting thought: what if Kat knows about this and Annie opens an otherwise empty notebook with a note telling her to cut it out? Seems unlikely, I know, but I thought it was an interesting idea. How delightfully sneaky. |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 15, 2010 13:15:31 GMT
On how much little Antimony is inclined to play by rules: here's one more link. Well either it's where she actually lives, and not her dorm room, or Annie has a key, since she's a friend. There's also the blinker stone which can probably unlock a door. A key would have to be made by the Court's workshop... though obviously it's trivial for Kat. A blinker? For practice, maybe. Both are superfluous: Annie's used to be skilled with lockpicks, remember?  Seriously? You think their relationship would suffer over something this trivial? Trivial for you? Maybe. But remember: what one person considers trivial is subjective. Of course. And - surprise! - maybe even vice versa. Remember, she's cheating off Kat here. Kat, a person who takes her grades quite seriously. A link? Pretty please? Also, Annie is Kat's closest friend. It's one thing if she asked Kat if she could look at her homework. It's quite another to do it behind her back. That's a violation of trust ...assuming, assuming. since Annie is her closest friend in the Court and the last person she'd expect something like this from. (upon recovering the ability to breathe): or Annie is the first (and only) person she'd expect specifically this from because she's her closest friend? It's a reasonable assumption considering that Annie has been shown cheating off Kat before. ...and Kat was shown mortally offended? Everyone is so sure Annie intends to cheat. And maybe she is. [...] Could something else be going on here? (very naively): i don't know... did you count how many posters in the previous comic's thread were sure that the whole "homework" issue is but a convenient excuse? Oh, wait, right - it's Gunnerkrigg we talk about. This can turn in any imaginable way, and two or three unimaginable ones. It seems to me to denote a certain lack of respect when someone doesn't even bother to ask for the other person's opinion on the subject before doing something like this. ...every single time, as if having MicroSOS Genuine Disadvantage driver stuck in the head. That, or maybe, just maybe, it's not the first time she does this and wasn't going to ask in front of two teachers. Just a thought. I wonder if she had any schooling before Gunnerkrigg? Didn't she stay in the hospital with her mom from a fairly early age? (sigh) ...and no way people can learn anything without hearing a Certified Professional TM reading it aloud!.. ...in a voice other people use to "talk" with puppies, from a pretty stupid textbook they could read on their own. If they weren't taught to read in a way that precludes long reading. Is it just me or are the people in the posters looking disapprovingly at Annie? Haha, yes. "This poster disapproves!" - now that's metahumor. Maybe also a fauxtivator? Why does every one here look as if cheating is a sin? "Cheating is bad" is not exactly a controversial or rare position. If you want more detailed arguments as to why, the wiki article explains it pretty well. News from the front: internet MMO hivemind joins the disapproval of imaginary FBI agents! Our Arthropodhood, however, doesn't see it as notable enough to add on the fauxtivator.  P.S./1: In either case, it's not a public school. P.S./2: Five minutes ago i didn't feel an inexplicable urge to make a thermite candle and burn it under an icon of St. Feynman. Thanks, guys. |
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notacat
Full Member
That's not me, that's my late cat Mimi: I'm not nearly so cute
Posts: 188
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Post by notacat on Nov 15, 2010 13:18:21 GMT
Also the book says Homework but does not define a single subject. So I assume it's for all of her classes, and since Kat did not also specify what kind of homework they needed to do I assume she meant a lot of classes. I'm wondering how many people here are currently students in a Secondary School in the UK, because that book is quite familiar to me as a father of one. The quote above caught my eye for reasons that I shall expound. Has anybody considered the possibility that the "Homework Book" in question is for recording what the homework is? We have such a book in which our daughter records her homework objectives, the teacher can record comments and we can reply or record comments of our own. The homework itself is usually provided on separate sheets of paper, often as not doubling as the answer sheet. It's interesting how so many people jump to the conclusion that Annie "must be about to cheat off her friend", whereas the distinct possibility exists that she is simply looking to see what work she has yet to do before going on holiday with said friend's family. I shall be saddened if I am proven wrong, but I have to point out this alternative interpretation of observation, like the good scientist I pretend to be ;D |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 13:21:47 GMT
What, exactly, are you trying to say TBeholder? Because I'm having trouble figuring it out from all of your snark. (sigh) ...and no way people can learn anything without hearing a Certified Professional TM reading it aloud!.. ...in a voice other people use to "talk" with puppies, from a pretty stupid textbook they could read on their own. If they weren't taught to read in a way that precludes long reading. As a "Certified Professional TM" myself, excuse me? I just want a clarification. As a teacher, I really find it annoying when my profession is so cavalierly dismissed for whatever reason. If that's not your intention, then my apologies for thinking that way. notacat: If that is true, then it's a good fake-out on Tom's part. My reaction was made based on my experience as a teacher in my country, and the lack of knowledge on what "Homework Book" means in the context of UK schools. Of course, it still doesn't mean that that's definitely the case anyway, as I think it reasonable the UK also has differing terminologies and protocols between different schools. But, hey, that's the beauty of speculation. If I'm right, great. If not, also great. I'm never afraid of being proven wrong. |
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Post by binarytears on Nov 15, 2010 13:24:18 GMT
It's a reasonable assumption considering that Annie has been shown cheating off Kat before. It's a reasonable assumption that the author included that previous incident so we'd automatically assume Annie's intending to cheat here too. I did recall that other incident, but also remember I wasn't exactly sure what was going on there either. What was the comic number again? Cheating just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of Annie's character. |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 13:32:33 GMT
It's a reasonable assumption that the author included that previous incident so we'd automatically assume Annie's intending to cheat here too. Indeed it is. We'll find out when we find out. Number 365I disagree. I think it fits with Annie's character. She's mostly self-reliant (you have to be when you escort your mother to the afterlife and then your dad leaves you alone to go off wherever) and has little experience asking other people for help. She's also been called out on her difficultly with asking anyone else, even friends, for help before. She has also broken Court rules several times to aid her investigations. Cheating isn't out-of-character considering those, and it's a believable action for a teenage student. |
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 15, 2010 13:36:10 GMT
<lots of freakin words that broke the forum> Well, Kat didn't know Annie was cheating off her the first time (which was here, for anyone curious). Also you're free to find your own links if wikipedia isn't to your liking. They have plenty of sources cited in that article, after all. Edit: also your post was long, dang. |
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