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Post by Snes on Nov 15, 2010 8:00:20 GMT
[800]For shame, Annie. 800th comic. Good on ya, Tom.
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Post by Max on Nov 15, 2010 8:02:13 GMT
Conceded.
And wow, it looks like it went worse than I thought. ETA: (I mean her meeting with Jack)
And I like that Tom drew in Kat's mask.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 15, 2010 8:02:33 GMT
Cheater-cheater, pumpkin-eater!
I hope she gets caught. :<
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noako
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by noako on Nov 15, 2010 8:03:25 GMT
Oh Annie, I'm sure Jack would love to help you.. with your homework, of course.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Nov 15, 2010 8:03:32 GMT
The first three panels are virtually identical to the first three of 796. Cute.
edit: Max, I'm pretty sure the expression on her face has nothing to do with Jack
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Post by edzepp on Nov 15, 2010 8:06:04 GMT
Oh Annie.
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Post by Elaienar on Nov 15, 2010 8:06:31 GMT
Oh. I was wondering when we were going to see this happen again.
Also I love the way the first three panels here parallel the first three in 796.
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Post by Aurelia Verity on Nov 15, 2010 8:07:23 GMT
This is something that has been bugging me for a while: If Annie really is repeatedly cheating off of Kat then how is she passing her tests and exams? is she cheating on those too? using the Blinker stone perhaps? Homework is one thing but GC must have some kind of examinations in place, Annie is shown to move up grades along with the rest of the class so how behind is she academically? is it only in certain areas?
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Post by Rex on Nov 15, 2010 8:09:04 GMT
Whoa. Before we got a glimpse of Annie cheating, and assumed that was it. This is pretty blatant, and a violation of Kat's trust to boot.
Annie must really be struggling to have to resort to this.
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Post by Snes on Nov 15, 2010 8:09:45 GMT
I think this'll be my last discussion topic for a while. Getting the 800 page milestone is enough to keep me satisfied. At least for the remainder of the chapter.
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Post by Max on Nov 15, 2010 8:12:15 GMT
edit: Max, I'm pretty sure the expression on her face has nothing to do with Jack I don't know. It would sorta fit in with her reaction to Mort, and I can't see what else it would apply to. Plus as you pointed out this mirrors page 796, after she had left smiling and then been upset. I think this'll be my last discussion topic for a while. Getting the 800 page milestone is enough to keep me satisfied. At least for the remainder of the chapter. Dang, the competition made it kinda interesting. I was actually originally shooting for a full chapter.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 8:36:01 GMT
Well, gotta hand it to her, though. She said she was going to do something related to Kat and homework. And, well, she did do something involving Kat and homework. She just... shuffled around one or two minor details. edit: Max, I'm pretty sure the expression on her face has nothing to do with Jack I don't know. It would sorta fit in with her reaction to Mort, and I can't see what else it would apply to. Plus as you pointed out this mirrors page 796, after she had left smiling and then been upset. Well, it could go either way. It could be related to Jack, or it could be her steeling herself for yet another act of cheating off a close friend. A sort of cheating-related "game-face," if you will.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 8:42:28 GMT
Oh my God! She's cheating on homework in grade school! The horror! The horror!Oh wait, I cheated on homework regularly in grade school because it was never really worth my time. I hate busywork, a disposition that only got more extreme over the years, so I'd copy off my friends before class when I was assigned a worksheet (when I bothered to do that much). I'd then go on to get a better grade than those same friends on the tests because I actually understood the material. I graduated third in my class and didn't turn in a single page of homework problems for calculus my entire senior year (got an A in that class). After all was said and done, I aced all my standardized tests, placement tests, and college entry exams (without cheating), and I have enough scholarship money to have a full ride through my university education. In short: Homework doesn't matter, and I don't fault Annie for cheating. If she doesn't understand the material, she'll get bad grades on the tests. If she does, who gives a damn if she trudged through page after page of tedious word problems? She has ghosts to save; she doesn't have time to mess about with covalent bonds.* That said, I think we should address the much more serious problem: Why isn't Kat's door locked? That's not too bright, Donlan. *Chemistry is the only subject in which my ability to comprehend suffered from my slothful work ethic in grade school. I'm willing to admit this. Thankfully, I don't particularly care.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 8:43:40 GMT
Oh my God! She's cheating on homework! The horror! Oh wait, I cheated on homework regularly in grade school. In fact, if I turned in a worksheet of any sort, chances are I'd copied off of a friend because I hate busywork, a disposition that only got more extreme over time. I'd then go on to get a better grade than those same friends on the tests because I actually understood the material. I graduated third in my class and didn't turn in a single homework assignment for calculus my entire senior year. Screw homework. As a high school teacher, I am contractually obligated to disapprove. As a former student who remembers how school is from the student's point of view; yeah, it happens. The teacher in me doesn't like it, but we can't stop it all. EDIT: Back to the comic, it would be very bad if Kat walked in on this. Not to mention how tense that would make Annie's vacation with her and her family.
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Post by Rex on Nov 15, 2010 8:58:25 GMT
Mikey, I think it would rule out her traveling with them over the summer if that happened. That and her relationship with Kat would take a dire blow.
I remember Rey's comment to her when he saw she stole the Donlans' yearbook. Makes me wonder what he'd say to Annie about this.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:00:57 GMT
Seriously? You think their relationship would suffer over something this trivial?
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Post by Zayzie on Nov 15, 2010 9:05:03 GMT
Oh my God! She's cheating on homework in grade school! The horror! The horror!Oh wait, I cheated on homework regularly in grade school because it was never really worth my time. I hate busywork, a disposition that only got more extreme over the years, so I'd copy off my friends before class when I was assigned a worksheet (when I bothered to do that much). I'd then go on to get a better grade than those same friends on the tests because I actually understood the material. I graduated third in my class and didn't turn in a single page of homework problems for calculus my entire senior year (got an A in that class). I also studied very little and slept a lot in class because my mind is a steel trap and half the time teachers spent classes reviewing crap that was taught the previous day. After all was said and done, I aced all my standardized tests, placement tests, and college entry exams (without cheating), and I have enough scholarship money to have a full ride through my university education. In short: Homework doesn't matter, and I don't fault Annie for cheating. If she doesn't understand the material, she'll get bad grades on the tests. If she does, who gives a damn if she trudged through page after page of tedious word problems? She has ghosts to save; she doesn't have time to mess about with covalent bonds.* Unless a lot of their homework consists of essays and it's not worksheet stuff at all, then Annie's strategy results in her going back to cheating because she can't come up with something on her own. Well either it's where she actually lives, and not her dorm room, or Annie has a key, since she's a friend. There's also the blinker stone which can probably unlock a door. I think the other matter of this fact is that Kat is a kid genius, and that Annie's cheating off of her friend may be more than just getting the answers, but providing more explanations and ideas that were her friends but that she stole for her own academic gain, which is plagiarism.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 9:06:05 GMT
Seriously? You think their relationship would suffer over something this trivial? Trivial for you? Maybe. But remember: what one person considers trivial is subjective. Remember, she's cheating off Kat here. Kat, a person who takes her grades quite seriously. I've had quite a few of the more academically-inclined students in my class explode over anyone cheating off of them. Hell, my little brother--though not a student of mine--is exactly that kind of student. Also, Annie is Kat's closest friend. It's one thing if she asked Kat if she could look at her homework. It's quite another to do it behind her back. That's a violation of trust, and would be seen as even more dire by Kat since Annie is her closest friend in the Court and the last person she'd expect something like this from.
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Post by binarytears on Nov 15, 2010 9:12:04 GMT
Everyone is so sure Annie intends to cheat. And maybe she is. But she's just learned something fairly grim about the court, been 'ordered' to not take Reynard on the trip to the forest, and twice recently been seen with a determined look on her face - once *just* before the scene with the homework book.
Could something else be going on here?
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 9:14:45 GMT
Everyone is so sure Annie intends to cheat. And maybe she is. But she's just learned something fairly grim about the court, been 'ordered' to not take Reynard on the trip to the forest, and twice recently been seen with a determined look on her face - once *just* before the scene with the homework book. Could something else be going on here? It's a reasonable assumption considering that Annie has been shown cheating off Kat before.
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Post by Elaienar on Nov 15, 2010 9:15:30 GMT
Seriously? You think their relationship would suffer over something this trivial? Trivial for you? Maybe. But remember: what one person considers trivial is subjective. Remember, she's cheating off Kat here. Kat, a person who takes her grades quite seriously. I've had quite a few of the more academically-inclined students in my class explode over anyone cheating off of them. Hell, my little brother--though not a student of mine--is exactly that kind of student. Also, Annie is Kat's closest friend. It's one thing if she asked Kat if she could look at her homework. It's quite another to do it behind her back. That's a violation of trust, and would be seen as even more dire by Kat since Annie is her closest friend in the Court and the last person she'd expect something like this from. And especially since Antimony is apparently Kat's first friend, too. Given the fact that the other kids shunned her because her parents were teachers, she could feel that there's a lot more to the situation. It could call into question the nature of their entire relationship.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:15:59 GMT
Unless a lot of their homework consists of essays and it's not worksheet stuff at all. If that's the case, then Annie needs to brush up on cheating. Every skilled cheater knows to only cheat on the menial crap; otherwise you're going to get caught. That said, the only other time we saw Annie cheat was when she was copying down Kat's answers during a science experiment (something that was basically a de facto part of group science experiments when I was in high school), so it's probably a safe bet that whatever she's doing now involves similar assignments. That's definitely her dorm room. Those are the dorm exteriors we see in chapter 15, and the dorm interior appears in a few other chapters. And what do you base your assumption that a blinker stone can unlock doors on? Sure, Annie has proven that she can open doors by entering the ether, but not with a blinker stone.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 15, 2010 9:20:36 GMT
Oh my God! She's cheating on homework in grade school! The horror! The horror!Oh wait, I cheated on homework regularly in grade school because it was never really worth my time. I hate busywork, a disposition that only got more extreme over the years, so I'd copy off my friends before class when I was assigned a worksheet (when I bothered to do that much). I'd then go on to get a better grade than those same friends on the tests because I actually understood the material. I graduated third in my class and didn't turn in a single page of homework problems for calculus my entire senior year (got an A in that class). I also studied very little and slept a lot in class because my mind is a steel trap and half the time teachers spent classes reviewing crap that was taught the previous day. After all was said and done, I aced all my standardized tests, placement tests, and college entry exams (without cheating), and I have enough scholarship money to have a full ride through my university education. In short: Homework doesn't matter, and I don't fault Annie for cheating. If she doesn't understand the material, she'll get bad grades on the tests. If she does, who gives a damn if she trudged through page after page of tedious word problems? She has ghosts to save; she doesn't have time to mess about with covalent bonds.* That said, I think we should address the much more serious problem: Why isn't Kat's door locked? That's not too bright, Donlan. *Chemistry is the only subject in which my ability to comprehend suffered from my slothful work ethic in grade school. I'm willing to admit this. Thankfully, I don't particularly care. Cheating on busywork is probably forgivable, and admittedly most grade and high-school homework is busywork. If it's anything more substantial than that, like say an essay, or a set of results from a lab, then she's putting both herself and Kat in considerable danger of serious academic consequences. I don't know what the court's policy is on plagiarism, but I've had classes where they'll fail both people (not just on that assignment, but for the whole course) and write a letter to the head of the department if they can't prove one way or the other who cheated off who. It's also pretty unethical and detrimental to the learning process, as several people have mentioned. There's also the violation of trust issue, which has been mentioned already. It varies from person to person, but I know if I caught a friend breaking into my home to steal information, I'd be pretty mad at them to say the least.
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Post by Amethyst on Nov 15, 2010 9:30:19 GMT
Where IS that black abyss in which their dorm resides? That's like some American McGee's Alice stuff there.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:30:33 GMT
Seriously? You think their relationship would suffer over something this trivial? Trivial for you? Maybe. But remember: what one person considers trivial is subjective. Remember, she's cheating off Kat here. Kat, a person who takes her grades quite seriously. I've had quite a few of the more academically-inclined students in my class explode over anyone cheating off of them. Hell, my little brother--though not a student of mine--is exactly that kind of student. I could name one or two of the more academically inclined students who wouldn't let others cheat on their homework, but all of the more extroverted A-students were fairly open in sharing their answers (including me, when I actually did it). Kat strikes me as the kind of person who wouldn't get too upset about this sort of thing. That said, I'll defer to your experience here. You've probably been around more students than I have, and if you can think of some students who remind you of Kat and would blow up over this sort of thing, I concede the point. I could understand the violation of trust thing if Annie had snuck into Kat's room and looked at... anything more personal than a series of answers to some physics questions. However, I have trouble seeing Kat's first friendship disintegrate because Annie dared to sneak a peak at what F equals.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:35:48 GMT
Cheating on busywork is probably forgivable, and admittedly most grade and high-school homework is busywork. If it's anything more substantial than that, like say an essay, or a set of results from a lab, then she's putting both herself and Kat in considerable danger of serious academic consequences. I don't know what the court's policy is on plagiarism, but I've had classes where they'll fail both people (not just on that assignment, but for the whole course) and write a letter to the head of the department if they can't prove one way or the other who cheated off who. It's also pretty unethical and detrimental to the learning process, as several people have mentioned. That's a good point, though I disagree on the bit about lab results. Most lab experiments in grade school, in my experience, are done in groups. The funny thing about doing lab work in groups is that the people within the groups tend to have the same results because they observe the same incidents and work together on solving the problems. Cheating is remarkably easy to get away with in that environment. Still, plagiarism on essays or similar things would be a very bad idea that could hurt both of them, though the fact that she's cheating off of Kat suggests to me that it's some sort of science homework.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 15, 2010 9:40:49 GMT
I could name one or two of the more academically inclined students who wouldn't let others cheat on their homework, but all of the more extroverted A-students were fairly open in sharing their answers (including me, when I actually did it). Kat strikes me as the kind of person who wouldn't get too upset about this sort of thing. That said, I'll defer to your experience here. You've probably been around more students than I have, and if you can think of some students who remind you of Kat and would blow up over this sort of thing, I concede the point. I could understand the violation of trust thing if Annie had snuck into Kat's room and looked at... anything more personal than a series of answers to some physics questions. However, I have trouble seeing Kat's first friendship disintegrate because Annie dared to sneak a peak at what F equals. Trust me, there are students like Kat who would take cheating off of them badly. Academically-adept students are not a homogeneous bunch. Are there such students who wouldn't mind friends cheating off them (or even encourage friends to cheat off them)? Yes. Are there such students who would get really pissed about a friend cheating off a "trivial" bit of homework? Also yes. Granted, we won't really know Kat's reaction until shown. However, there are also other things to consider--aside from what I pointed out--when thinking about why Kat would take this badly. Like elaienar mentioned, Kat has never had a friend before because she's the daughter of two teachers. It's not unheard of for some students to "befriend" the children of teachers out of the belief that this would make it easier for the befriender to gain access to cheating material. What's to stop Kat from considering that possibility if she finds out Annie's been going behind her back to cheat on her homework? Especially since she had no other friends she learned to trust before Annie?
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Post by Zayzie on Nov 15, 2010 9:44:40 GMT
That's definitely her dorm room. Those are the dorm exteriors we see in chapter 15, and the dorm interior appears in a few other chapters. And what do you base your assumption that a blinker stone can unlock doors on? Sure, Annie has proven that she can open doors by entering the ether, but not with a blinker stone. When pushing the boat for Evil Jack she has shown she can touch and manipulate physical objects. Coyote taught her this. And if it's the dorm room then I'm sure Annie can get in anyway. But like everyone else pointed at, the fact that Kat is academically inclined, a genius, and probably writes down more than people actually need to on homework thus resulting in some pretty amazing papers or just homework assignments, shows Annie is pretty much stealing ideas, I can't think of another reason to be tempted to cheat off of Kat. If they were at an even playing field she could just as easily ask for Kat for help on homework, but since she isn't, I suspect something more malicious. Also the book says Homework but does not define a single subject. So I assume it's for all of her classes, and since Kat did not also specify what kind of homework they needed to do I assume she meant a lot of classes.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 15, 2010 9:52:47 GMT
Cheating on busywork is probably forgivable, and admittedly most grade and high-school homework is busywork. If it's anything more substantial than that, like say an essay, or a set of results from a lab, then she's putting both herself and Kat in considerable danger of serious academic consequences. I don't know what the court's policy is on plagiarism, but I've had classes where they'll fail both people (not just on that assignment, but for the whole course) and write a letter to the head of the department if they can't prove one way or the other who cheated off who. It's also pretty unethical and detrimental to the learning process, as several people have mentioned. That's a good point, though I disagree on the bit about lab results. Most lab experiments in grade school, in my experience, are done in groups. The funny thing about doing lab work in groups is that the people within the groups tend to have the same results because they observe the same incidents and work together on solving the problems. Cheating is remarkably easy to get away with in that environment. Still, plagiarism on essays or similar things would be a very bad idea that could hurt both of them, though the fact that she's cheating off of Kat suggests to me that it's some sort of science homework. Maybe. It depends on he lab experiment, really. What if Annie happened to be a different group one time? If she's cheating because she doesn't know how to do the math, she could end up inadvertently using one of Kat's results in her calculations, which would lead to a pretty off answer compared to her labmates. A keen-eyed and attentive TA or teacher could notice that. There's still the thing point about her not even asking Kat about this. It seems to me to denote a certain lack of respect when someone doesn't even bother to ask for the other person's opinion on the subject before doing something like this.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 15, 2010 9:54:01 GMT
Trust me, there are students like Kat who would take cheating off of them badly. Academically-adept students are not a homogeneous bunch. Are there such students who wouldn't mind friends cheating off them (or even encourage friends to cheat off them)? Yes. Are there such students who would get really pissed about a friend cheating off a "trivial" bit of homework? Also yes. I defer to your experience here. (emphasis mine) One big thing to keep Kat from thinking that is the fact that she's the one who sought Annie's friendship. Another thing that should stop Kat from thinking Annie is just using her for grades is the fact that those kinds of friendships tend to not be nearly as close as Kat and Annie are. If your intention in making a friend is to use that friend to get good grades, he or she won't end up being your best friend with whom you spend most of your time and whom you confide in regularly. Friendships for grades are much more superficial than that. Also, the fact that Kat has never had a friend at the Court before Annie does not make her more likely to want to dissolve that relationship. When you have few friends, you usually try to keep the ones you have.
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