|
Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 22, 2009 6:04:12 GMT
So, acting threatening towards someone is a-okay if your would-be victim can protect themselves? Or are you saying that standing her ground and then judo-flipping Jack for getting too close would have been a better way to handle the situation? Actually, Annie let Zimmy get even closer than Jack got before knocking her to the ground. So I guess if Rey hadn't jumped in, Annie would have made Jack taste linoleum eventually. If Jack were afraid of the giant wolf, then he wouldn't have turned his back on it. Annie has no problem with psychopomps, because she saw those all the time at Good Hope. She has little problem with ghosts, because she dealt with them quite frequently growing up. She had little problem with Coyote, because she knew about him from her mum's stories. She was able to deal with the Nobodies in Zim City solely because she had Zimmy's word that she would be able to "get ridda them, like Gamma does." There's been nothing to suggest that Annie's ever dealt with, or heard about, etheric face-spiders before. And, for the moment at least, there's no one that she can consult for advice about etheric arachnidology. "Is everything okay?"Even through whatever ill-effects he is experiencing, Jack is my favorite character for having the ability to be direct. "Hey Annie what happened that night." None of this "why do you ask?" "oh....no, it's nothing....." malarkey. He's great at asking questions and terrible at waiting for answers. And you know, terrible at framing his questions in a way that doesn't come across as creepy. And terrible at asking questions when Annie isn't apparently alone and defenseless. I do.
|
|
jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jon77 on Sept 22, 2009 6:11:53 GMT
Is it the lighting or has Jack's skin gained a grey-ish tinge? Or is it just me? And grinning!creepy!Jack on last panel is FTW. (and a jarring contrast to cheshire!Kat some time back) I also noticed that. Edit: I meant to refer to the skin color. Sorry for not being clear.
|
|
jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jon77 on Sept 22, 2009 6:19:27 GMT
Jack is scratching his cheek. Almost as if he felt a spider walking across his face. Ok, maybe that belongs in the wild speculation thread... (Has anyone seen Zimmy scratch like that?) Oh, I don't think that's really wildly speculative. I could have sworn I'd seen him doing that before, too, although I can't find it right now. (In his previous appearance he does spend a lot of time touching his face in various places, but that could just be coincidence, I suppose.) How about this: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=596Panel 4. He's touching his right cheek more or less where the right-hand spider web would be www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=614In fact, he does nothing else in this panel, and it's not clear why this panel is necessary (unless it's just to show the passage of a few seconds of time). Maybe the whole point of it is to show him touching his face?
|
|
|
Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 22, 2009 6:24:12 GMT
Didn't Annie berate herself for not helping Jeanne? That is an interesting contrast you bring up. It's possible (I think it's likely) that Annie, due to her unusual childhood, has an easier time empathizing with etheric creatures than with her classmates. Which why Annie's first friends in the Court were a shadow, then a robot. So, when confronted with two people who need her help but express it by threatening her, Annie's more torn up over being unable to help the ghost than over being unable to help Jack. Of course, back when Annie first berated herself for not helping Jeanne, I thought she was being too hard on herself then, too. "Come on, she tried to stab you in the face!" Now it seems she's gone too far the other way.
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 6:27:39 GMT
I know that the idea that Jack is scratching his face because of the invisible spider is very popular. And I'm hesitant to point out the following just because I'm pretty sure it will get blown off. That said, there is a sort of meme, for lack of a better word, in comics and animation, where the scratching of the face is a visible sign of the character thinking "I gotcha". Here's an example for you.
|
|
|
Post by zingbat on Sept 22, 2009 6:54:20 GMT
While I'm thinking about it, is it possible that one reason people are, shall we say... less than enthusiastic about Jack is that even if he's generally unhappy about the after-effects of Zimmyland, he seems to be enjoying his conflict with Annie? Although he's very grim and serious when talking about Zimmy, or fixing the cow, for example, a lot of the other times we see him he has that unsettling grin on his face. It's possible that he's just trying to put on a brave face, or that he really is going 'round the bend, but the perception that he's kind of having fun while his behavior is making Annie obviously uncomfortable could make him seem less sympathetic.
Edit: I, uh, I can't really tell if my posts are actually adding anything to this thread, since I'm not really in the thick of the debate over Jack. I'm just writing down things that might be relevant as they occur to me. So, sorry if I'm annoying people or something (I can stop).
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 7:02:27 GMT
I'm just writing down things that might be relevant as they occur to me. Don't worry... that describes most of everything I say, and I don't think I'm the only one... There shouldn't be a limit on how much a person could potentially contribute to the community IMO.
|
|
jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jon77 on Sept 22, 2009 7:43:20 GMT
I know that the idea that Jack is scratching his face because of the invisible spider is very popular. And I'm hesitant to point out the following just because I'm pretty sure it will get blown off. That said, there is a sort of meme, for lack of a better word, in comics and animation, where the scratching of the face is a visible sign of the character thinking "I gotcha". Here's an example for you.Nonsense, this CLEARLY means that Eglamore is ALSO completely covered in spiderwebs and these spiders are CONTROLLED by Ms. Jones who is in fact YSENGRIN in disguise ever since he fled the forest in SHAME when Coyote caught him trying on women's clothing!!! <gulps medication> You're right, of course - the face-scratching-due-to-cobwebs is a neat idea, but we need to see it one or two more times before accepting it. Also, people scratch a bit more than average while camping, not showering, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 7:50:41 GMT
I would like to point out that Ysengrin is STILL wearing women's clothing.
|
|
jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jon77 on Sept 22, 2009 11:19:31 GMT
That's just 'cause he's a lumberjack and he's ok.
|
|
blue
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 12:36:51 GMT
Is everything ok? Pretty clear by now the answer is "no". Maybe up until now you can excuse Annie's behavior. "She was distracted/Suddenly flappable/busy with her tent". But that all depends on when you think she knew Jack got a trip to nightmare world, presumably without GOP power. Now there are no more excuses, so let us see what she does!
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Sept 22, 2009 12:45:16 GMT
Jack's amazing. Despite whether he's disturbed!Jack or possessed!Jack or jerk!Jack or obnoxious!Jack or creepy!Jack or even evil!Jack, everytime he shows up the forum erupts in controversy and spirited debates. Of course there's someone to truly appreciate for this: Tom, master of suspense, hidden intentions, and totally unexpected turns of events. Hence, my guess is that We Have Been Warned pointed to the ensuing rain of distilled flamebait. And why exactly she "had to" track him and ask him to solve his problems? It's not her job, and she's not his mom or something. Didn't Annie berate herself for not helping Jeanne? Jack has -never- presented himself to Annie as someone who needed her help. To be fair though, neither did Jeanne ...and as far as Annie is concerned, dealing with Jeanne is her duty: ol' girl's stuck. Also, these "lost souls" seems to be disoriented and less than lucid to begin with, as a general rule. While Jack started the dialog in coherent, but strange manner and quickly fell into threatening. Of course, should Annie think of him as of one being in danger of ending up stuck (hopefully before it happens), something might change... Person in need right here! And you're one of the only ones even capable of knowing something is amiss! First, she doesn't exactly looks around for chickens to help them cross the road. Second, while she saw something is wrong with Jack, from her PoV it's still inconclusive whether he suffers from "something" or tries to do "something", or he's just batshit insane... and the latter variant looks the most plausible. It is like the woman attacked in the apartment complex and no one calls the police [off-topic] Note that this presentation of a problem already implies that it's the police who must do something about it and not someone who happened to be right there and then. [/off-topic] because they all think the others will do it. Except it's just Annie, Zimmy, and Gamma which means it's all up to Annie. Funny, but as far as "attacked" goes, the only related case i remember is... oh.
|
|
|
Post by tyler on Sept 22, 2009 12:51:43 GMT
Actually, at this point, I can still excuse Annie's behavior. She's a child.
It's mind boggling to me that there are people who expect every single action taken by a fictional character to be logic driven. A) They're written as emotional characters and B) They're left to the devices of the story-teller writing them.
She clearly learned that Jack's been to Zimmingham in the hallway. Of course, she learned that Jack got scary in the hallway, too. Now she might have some basic human-level compassion toward her fellow man, but no-one's required to stick their hands in a blender to help someone.
I can't speak to what she's thinking, but I imagine right now she'd probably help him if she had any idea how to do that without putting herself and Kat at risk. If they weren't in the woods, largely unsupervised, she'd probably be asking someone about the spider stuff (even in a roundabout way). If she hadn't removed the blinker stone and cut off her own connection to Rey she might ask him.
She can't ask anyone. She has no experience with etheric face-spiders. She has no idea what sort of threat-level (if any) Jack may present. She's practical enough to know that testing such a thing might have dire consequences.
In short, all she knows is Jack's been to Zimmy's world and is starting to act crazy. Crazy in a malignant way. She'd need more information to even begin cooking up a solution, and the patient's kind of hostile.
|
|
|
Post by Rasselas on Sept 22, 2009 14:19:45 GMT
In expectation of the next comic: night is coming and Janet is still missing. The alleged ghost is lurking somewhere. Add all of this to the Jack issues, and there's trouble on the horizon.
|
|
|
Post by the bandit on Sept 22, 2009 14:45:28 GMT
I think you're right, Rasselas. These two quotes make the whole thread worth it: Antimony "Demon-Enslaver Moon-Poke God-Spanker" Carver [Annie's attempts to answer] led to nothing as [Jack] was too busy juggling his rollaway marbles to hear.
|
|
jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jon77 on Sept 22, 2009 15:01:54 GMT
Everyone says that it's the spider's legs that tickle Jack. Sure. But what really creeps me out is that when we see the spider, it's over Jack's left eye. And he scratches the left cheek. When imagining the spider slooooooowly creeping downwards it just feels icky, probably because spiders are horrible horrible creatures. Not really relevant to discussion, just enjoy imagining that. ;D He might be scratching the cobwebs, not the spider. Someone mentioned that possibilitiy on the comments under the comic.
|
|
|
Post by Seth Thresher on Sept 22, 2009 15:36:59 GMT
I am still staying out of what I believe to be an overthought discussion, but I would like to say that Jack is being a meenie meenie bo beanie today. Not cool Jack, not cool. You're going to find yourself on the wrong side of a knuckle sandwich if you're to be keeping that mess up.
|
|
|
Post by pepoluan on Sept 22, 2009 16:42:45 GMT
Let me guess what might happen in the next few pages: - Annie doing another out-of-body experience - The ghost appears - Eggers to the rescue!
Yet there's something I really dread might happen: - Someone dies
Gosh!
|
|
|
Post by pepoluan on Sept 22, 2009 17:04:41 GMT
This page is so surreal... The sky is very nice... Still some light on the horizon, but getting deep blue on top... Stars starting to show... Pretty, but shocked Annie... Angry Kat... Jack grinning mischievously... The night is falling.
I'm totally gonna have a restless sleep decorated by this page, tonight...
|
|
|
Post by idonotlikepeas on Sept 22, 2009 17:26:47 GMT
I'm a little confused as to why people think Annie isn't going to try to help Jack the way she's going to try to help Jeanne. The fact that she's running away from him right now probably has more to do with the fact that she doesn't know what the heck is going on. She didn't yell at him angrily, it was Kat that did that.
It looks to me like she's getting out of dodge because she doesn't want Kat to get hurt in a fight with Jack and God knows what-all; she is presumably going to consult with someone at the earliest opportunity to try to figure out what the spider is and what to do about it. (Likely she would have asked Rey, only of course she can't do that right now.)
|
|
blue
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 17:34:03 GMT
I'm a little confused as to why people think Annie isn't going to try to help Jack the way she's going to try to help Jeanne. The fact that she's running away from him right now probably has more to do with the fact that she doesn't know what the heck is going on. She didn't yell at him angrily, it was Kat that did that. It looks to me like she's getting out of dodge because she doesn't want Kat to get hurt in a fight with Jack and God knows what-all; she is presumably going to consult with someone at the earliest opportunity to try to figure out what the spider is and what to do about it. (Likely she would have asked Rey, only of course she can't do that right now.) Perhaps she will! But all I can pick up so far is that she wants nothing to do with him. Next stop will be finding Janet and then forgetting about him for a while is my guess. Seeing as everyone is enrolled at some kind of paranormal research facility, alerting someone at earliest convenience I think is the right course of action. Of course she hasn't approached anyone about Zimmy who might just have an advanced case of the face-spiders.
|
|
|
Post by Aris Katsaris on Sept 22, 2009 19:52:47 GMT
How and why would Annie "approach" anyone about Zimmy? She doesn't know anything about Zimmy that Zimmy doesn't know about herself -- indeed Annie probably knows much much less about Zimmy than either Zimmy or the school itself does.
And if she just said "I'm concerned about Zimmy. What's wrong with her?" the appropriate response by the school would probably be "She's suffering a condition. It's hard on her. If you're afraid of her, don't get very close to her. Other than that -- it's none of your business". In short nothing that Annie doesn't already know.
The case with Jack is different, because Annie may have information about him that the school doesn't have -- that he got sucked in Zimmingham, that he has an etherial spider on his face, that he showed a possibly unhealth interest in Zimmy's location. And it's only sharing this information with the school that constitutes a duty.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Sept 22, 2009 22:28:20 GMT
Sharing that information could lead to other consequences; Annie would have to admit that she, Jack, and Zimmy were out after curfew (even if she didn't mention the role that the other students played in it) - which could mean more detention (and maybe the school upgrading the security system so that it won't be so easy to sneak out at night).
I reread the scene where Jack's accosting Annie at the end of Chapter Twenty-three, and I think it *could* be interpreted as Jack being so unsettled by his experience that he doesn't realize how he's coming across to Annie; maybe if Annie had found a more tactful way to point it out to him, he'd have apologized and stepped back. Though, as others have pointed out, his cold response to Reynardine suggests that he might not.
The argument is becoming so divisive, though, that I almost hope that Tom will go back to "gag pages" about robot cows or the teachers putting the children through hardships that they don't intend to face for a while, before the forum gets torn apart by warring factions.
|
|
blue
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 22:45:41 GMT
And it's only sharing this information with the school that constitutes a duty. I agree. Sharing that information could lead to other consequences; Annie would have to admit that she, Jack, and Zimmy were out after curfew (even if she didn't mention the role that the other students played in it) - which could mean more detention (and maybe the school upgrading the security system so that it won't be so easy to sneak out at night). Not sharing it I think could lead to far worse consequences for everyone. That's pretty dramatic! But, the last page did have a gag in it - The cow did not detect Jack's incredible insult because it was an ice burn.
|
|
|
Post by idonotlikepeas on Sept 23, 2009 1:25:47 GMT
Ho ho ho!
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Sept 23, 2009 3:55:40 GMT
I have to agree with Blue on this one. In my opinion, that is a severe overstatement of the case. Some people see any level of disagreement or difference of opinion as nothing short of a knock-down drag-out fight. For example one of our dogs starts shaking and cowering if my girlfriend and I are hollering at the basketball game on TV because he can't tell the difference. But then, he also shakes and cowers at the first distant rumble of thunder. We think he suffered some trauma before she adopted him that makes him hyper-sensitive to animated noise. He also runs away if he sees us get out the Wiimote or the Rock Band guitar. I guess for some, any amount of excitement is a reason to cringe and tremble. Now it isn't my place to wonder the reasons why someone else might see the current boards as being as divided as if the Annan River itself ran through the middle of the forum. It's just not so. Ariskatsaris and I, for example, have disagreed significantly on some things in the past, and then another time like today, his words echo my thoughts precisely. If people hated each other when they disagreed, then they would make it hard on themselves to like each other when they agreed. Short reply: The sky is not falling. Don't panic.
|
|
|
Post by Ulysses on Sept 23, 2009 20:11:26 GMT
It seems to me that Jack had no intention of asking Annie about the blinker stone, no matter what he says. All that about "if [she] wasn't such an ice queen I could have just asked her about it" smacks of last-second-thought-of excuse. In my brain the page reads "You stole it!" - "Yeah, well...she wouldn't have explained it any way". Don't know if anyone else feels that way. Also: an advanced case of the face-spiders. Face-spiderFirst thing I thought of at that phrase.
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Sept 24, 2009 19:15:59 GMT
If Jack were afraid of the giant wolf, then he wouldn't have turned his back on it. Ah, he backed away from said wolf, sweating profusely, until he could plainly see that it was defending Annie NOT coming after him...
|
|
|
Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 24, 2009 23:46:50 GMT
And upon realizing that Rey was not coming after him, did Jack resume asking his questions that were so important before Rey showed up?
|
|