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Post by Snes on Sept 21, 2009 18:02:02 GMT
I'm thinking Annie's expression is actually one of pity. I think she's trying to get Kat to lay off because she understands that Jack is suffering some sort of ailment. My though was that she just wanted to avoid confrontation. Kat I think makes up for Annie's usual lack of emotion. On this page, we see Kat acting as the emotion of the two of them with Annie acting as the reason, holding her back. Tom seems to be doing a good job of keeping us on our toes about Jack's true intentions. One comic we see him in a rather sympathetic light, then he turns around and antagonizes Annie and Kat.
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Post by warrl on Sept 21, 2009 18:38:01 GMT
Usually, when someone's very introverted, they tend to think nobody wants to talk to them. Speaking only for myself, I'll emphatically disagree with this. I probably do seem standoffish, and if someone asks for help with a problem I tend to focus on the problem and forget about the person... [/quote]Too bad we won't get a revealing little chat out of this scene, argh. [/quote] Yeah, Jack just gratuitously insulted and belittled one of the few people with ANY competence to deal with his situation. Probably the one who would have otherwise been most accessible and sympathetic. I wonder if that spider-thing is trying to protect itself. Granting that we haven't seen a whole lot of Jack before, I don't recall him being so rude prior to being tossed into Zimmingham.
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Post by the bandit on Sept 21, 2009 19:34:11 GMT
Is it the lighting or has Jack's skin gained a grey-ish tinge? I think it's the twilight.
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Post by tyler on Sept 21, 2009 19:56:55 GMT
Is it the lighting or has Jack's skin gained a grey-ish tinge? I think it's the twilight. He's a vampire? It might be up to Zimmy to find a solution - and since she doesn't like anyone except for Gamma, I don't see much hope of her cooperating. If there's any connection between the spiders on Jack's face and the Moneyspider from the City Face comments (and even likely if there isn't), I'm going to guess that the intentions of Jack, the entity assaulting Jack, or both towards Zimmy are not going to be kind. If she has any way of helping, she might do it out of self-preservation. Zimmy's one of the few student characters I would actually consider capable of killing out of self-preservation. That would be a bad thing for Jack. And if he's being ridden by a spirit that doesn't care, it could be bad for lots of folks.
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CameoAppearance
New Member
Do... do they all think I am stupid and ugly?
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Post by CameoAppearance on Sept 21, 2009 20:04:42 GMT
I'm pretty sure Jack is deliberately antagonising Annie and Kat, but I'm not sure if he believes what he's saying or if he's just trying to think up the most hurtful things he can say. (I don't like jumping to conclusions, so I'm not going to throw my lot in with either possibility just yet.)
It's possible that he's just doing it to get a reaction out of them for his own amusement, but I prefer to believe that he's trying to drive them away. It's quite a stupid thing to do if he wants to get rid of his affliction (which would seem the sensible reaction), but perhaps he's trying to alienate them because he wants to keep it (for whatever reason) and expects Annie to interfere with that?
Also, while possession is certainly a possibility, I'd rather believe that Jack's acting of his own volition. Assuming that he's not in control of his actions seems too easy an answer. I do think his personality's being twisted by supernatural forces, but I don't like the idea of outright mind control being involved.
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unctuous
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doesn't usually get such compliments
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Post by unctuous on Sept 21, 2009 20:09:52 GMT
I'm rather surprised that he's perceived as making a legitimate point.
In the aforementioned recent page it's mentioned that Annie's awkward, but that doesn't equate to being an ice queen. It's not cruelty or feigned superiority on her part; anyone who grew up in a hospital without talking to peers and then was left alone in the world would be expected to be socially awkward...
I mean, his intent is clearly malicious, he's purposely striking where it will hurt. I bet that spider is driving a wedge between Annie and others, it seems to have an easier time with people when they're alone...
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Post by wynne on Sept 21, 2009 20:10:08 GMT
Etheric-spiders and true intentions aside, I think we can all still count this as the day Jack became a Creepy McCreepster beyond a doubt. As well as a jackass. It may indeed be like father, like son.
That said, is it possible Jack's father is the boy Reynardine took over? That would explain at least part of his animosity to Annie today. Though that could also be wild speculation.
This page is going to give me nightmares.
Edit: Plus, those twilight-y grey colors are really starting to creep me out by themselves. Maybe it's the way they suck the color out of everything else, or maybe it's because it's that time of year when everything starts to go gray and freezing until March, which makes me really depressed, and so this makes me really cold and depressed. Whatever the reason, I will be glad when they are gone. Somehow the dark corridors of the school never seemed as creepy or as depressing as the cold, grey campground.
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Post by tyler on Sept 21, 2009 20:12:37 GMT
That said, is it possible Jack's father is the boy Reynardine took over? That would explain at least part of his animosity to Annie today. Though that could also be wild speculation Funnily enough, it's come up in the Wild Speculation thread. General consensus is that the facts as have been presented so far indicate that it couldn't have been Jack's father because he'd have died before siring Jack. That and the flashback shows someone in a formal school uniform, teacher-like. However, I'm going to pop over there right now because something just occurred to me.
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CameoAppearance
New Member
Do... do they all think I am stupid and ugly?
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Post by CameoAppearance on Sept 21, 2009 20:14:36 GMT
I don't like the "like father, like son" theory, because Jack showed zero signs of being a creepy jerk before Zimmingham. In Power Station, he seemed like a nice kid. Mischievous, but in a harmless prankster-y sort of way. How he's acting now bears absolutely no resemblance to his original personality.
Also, I think I will take my wild speculation to the wild speculation thread. It's not really relevant to this page.
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 21, 2009 20:20:29 GMT
Oh, great, now Jack is jealous. That's a heavy comeback. The problem is, it doesn't improve his situation at all, on both counts. Jack is scratching his cheek. Almost as if he felt a spider walking across his face. Even if not, it looks like Annie got the same suspicion. Heh, but isn't Tom a master of tension-controlling ambiguity? Well the way I read it was this: He said "Maybe if Carver wasn't such an ice queen I could have just asked her about it myself" (emphasis mine)... the unspoken corollary being "But she is an ice queen, so I couldn't have asked her myself, so therefore I had to steal it." Others might see the same sentence differently though... Yeah, You Read Too Much Between The Lines. And she did warned... it doesn't appear to me that Jack is acting as if he's been unjustly maligned. He acts as if he's been annoyed to the point of disregard of all other sides of the situation. Say! How does Jack know that it was Annie who made the blinker stone disappear? So, he saw her, not just noticed someone's presence. I'm thinking Annie's expression is actually one of pity. I think she's trying to get Kat to lay off because she understands that Jack is suffering some sort of ailment. In panel 5? I read it as an attempt to stop the meeting since everyone really needs to cool down... maybe including herself. I think we're losing Jack. The cool guy we met on the roof is disappearing, and I don't like what's taking his place. That spider is too suspicious to be a coincidence, and while I don't know what it's doing to him, I'm afraid it's getting worse. Either that, or he's just became paranoid a bit and tense a lot, and now also pissed off, while the spider thing is a product of unsafe handling of a blinker. I liked this page, Annie can get a little... "Mary Sue-y" at times, so this is a good thing for her character. Not only she makes mistakes, there's also such thing as Mary Sue Vaccine. I refer to the one and only character with Level of Detail consistently higher that the protagonist's. It's just a spotlight -- try to count how many interesting things were mentioned but never shown.
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Post by Rasselas on Sept 21, 2009 20:22:11 GMT
Usually, when someone's very introverted, they tend to think nobody wants to talk to them. Speaking only for myself, I'll emphatically disagree with this. I suppose it is a broad statement, and it also applies better to insecure people than introverted ones. However, in society today, introversion and insecurity tend to coincide, at least in the early stages of growing up. It takes a while to become okay with being introverted and that it doesn't mean you're socially incapable - just that you prefer keeping to yourself. So it can be a complicated set of motivations to dig through. I agree that a mature introverted person would probably not have this problem. Annie does seem like she's happy the way she is, much like we saw from Anthony in what little he was shown. However, being accepted in company is a two-way mechanism, you have to reach out in order for others to reach out to you. That's why she'd be very wrong in thinking Jack's words are true, because she's the one not reaching out. I have to say that I like it better this way. I love the way Annie is portrayed and it's maybe one of the nicest portrayals of non-dysfunctional introversion.
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mike
Junior Member
"Fighting evil improves the children's moral character."
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Post by mike on Sept 21, 2009 20:30:15 GMT
Here is another question for you guys to talk about (because I'm going to bed). On this page, is Annie being astute and wise beyond her years and using her skill in mediation to realize that the best solution to the confrontation is to remove themselves from it because it cannot be won and therefore it is best not to engage Jack's behavior, or, is she running away from confrontation because she is introverted and socially awkward and standoffish? (It's probably obvious that I think the former.) Another possibility is that she's trying to reign in Kat because she's afraid of Jack-- she thinks Jack is intentionally trying to provoke them into a confrontation. (Perhaps physical?) As someone mentioned, that might be the intent of the etheric spider-- provoke a response, so that it can do... something...
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noako
New Member
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Post by noako on Sept 21, 2009 21:10:11 GMT
Everyone says that it's the spider's legs that tickle Jack. Sure. But what really creeps me out is that when we see the spider, it's over Jack's left eye. And he scratches the left cheek. When imagining the spider slooooooowly creeping downwards it just feels icky, probably because spiders are horrible horrible creatures. Not really relevant to discussion, just enjoy imagining that. ;D
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Post by Goatmon on Sept 21, 2009 23:15:32 GMT
I'm pretty sure Jack is deliberately antagonising Annie and Kat, but I'm not sure if he believes what he's saying or if he's just trying to think up the most hurtful things he can say. (I don't like jumping to conclusions, so I'm not going to throw my lot in with either possibility just yet.) I'm pretty sure he's deliberately giving them both a hard time, although that leaves the question of why he's doing it in the first place. I suspect he is partially acting on his own feelings, which are being worsened by a malignant force that will probably drive him completley mad if something isn't done. Also note that Annie saw a spiderweb right where he's scratching. Not entirely sure what that means. All in all, however, I can't blame him for being pretty cold to Annie. Say what you will about his bad approach in the beginning, but he did get a giant rabid wolf was sicced on him for getting a little too close while asking a few questions, without actually laying a hand on her. I can't blame Annie for being defensive around him, but I don't see why he should trust her, either. I do hope that Annie is able to pull him out of whatever horrible mess he's gotten himself into, though. Poor Jack's seen some pretty horrific stuff, without knowing how or why. That'd drive a lot of people crazy. Say! How does Jack know that it was Annie who made the blinker stone disappear? Because he is obviously spirituaully sensitive, and looked RIGHT AT HER when she took it? This is not complicated.
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Post by todd on Sept 21, 2009 23:24:35 GMT
I think that Annie initially seems to be Mary Sue-ish because the first two chapters make her seem extremely competent and able to handle anything. But then later on, we find that her plan to get Shadow2 across the bridge was disastrous - leading to Robot getting possessed, then turned into paper-clips, Annie being knocked off the bridge, and diplomatic relations between Gunnerkrigg and Gillitie worsening. And her making friends with Basil is quickly countered by Reynardine, who seems another case of a noble monster being threatened by a bullying warrior, but who turns out to be a scheming trickster who tries possessing her, while the "bullying warrior" rescues Annie.
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Post by digikitty on Sept 21, 2009 23:33:47 GMT
Except that Annie didn't tell Reynardine to scare him away, Reynardine did it on his own because he seemed to think Jack posed a threat to Annie, whether Jack actually laid a hand on her or not.
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Post by tyler on Sept 21, 2009 23:49:16 GMT
I'm sure Jack's clear-headed enough to see the difference there.
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 1:28:22 GMT
A lot of talk over whether or not Jack is a jerk! Jack - Forcefully asked Annie a lot of questions - Picked up a magic rock off the ground - Saved everyone's lives by narrowly repairing a certainly nuclear explosion bound laser cow. I don't know about you guys but when I lend people something valuable I expect them to just leave it on the ground when they're done with it. =/
Outside of Zimmy who is the worst and Gamma who doesn't speak English, Annie is the only person who knows that Jack was sucked into crazy demon land and now has some kind of ethereal infection on his face and gosh he looks terrible and man he seems to be acting somewhat differently. Guess I'll just make no attempt to help and also avoid him on purpose or attack him with my giant wolf.
Maybe Antimony "Demon-Enslaver Moon-Poke God-Spanker" Carver is intimidated by him. I mean just look at how tired he looks.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 22, 2009 1:48:54 GMT
Outside of Zimmy who is the worst and Gamma who doesn't speak English, Annie is the only person who knows that Jack was sucked into crazy demon land Which she didn't know until Jack told her himself during their conversation last chapter. Which she didn't learn about until this morning. Threatening and obsessive would be somewhat different, I guess. She attempted to answer his questions, but he interrupted and started advancing ominously. She asked Kat to stay away from him; she said nothing about staying away from Jack herself. And let's face, Kat's not very good at most conflict resolution, so it's unlikely she would be able to help Jack anyway. Rey intervened without Annie asking him to. All he did was position himself between Jack and Annie, to make it very clear that his behavior was unacceptable. Jack could have continued his prior line of inquiry at this point, yet decided it was no longer worth pursuing for some reason. I don't think fear of Reynardine was his reason, considering his snide remark and his turning his back on Rey before leaving. Maybe Annie hasn't had a real chance to do anything for Jack. Or maybe she's afraid--like a bunch of the readers are--because she knows now that she's dealing with something she's never seen before, and she has no idea what to expect.
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 2:27:09 GMT
Which she didn't know until Jack told her himself during their conversation last chapter. So she can't hear more than three feet awayShe attempted to answer his questions, but he interrupted and started advancing ominously. Annie is an accomplished martial artist!She asked Kat to stay away from him; she said nothing about staying away from Jack herself. My prediction is that she is certainly going to. Alternatively, she wants to date him and wants no interference from Kat. Haha, for some mysterious reason that couldn't be the giant wolf. He only then realized the flowers, which he in fact does not think are nice at all. She seemingly does that every day and has spanked a god. Man all she has to do is express even a little concern. "What happened to you that night?"
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Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 3:24:56 GMT
Man all she has to do is express even a little concern. "What happened to you that night?" Good point, in fact, the very fact that she -didn't- ask him that would be a good indication of just how much he was hounding her and pressing her and interrupting her and closing on her and oh my god everything is happening so fast and what's this wall behind me is he going to pin me to the wall why is he doing thi-- oh, thank you, Reynardine. BTW, maybe I'm the last person who should be casting stones, but, is the sarcasm I detect in your last few posts necessary?
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Post by tyler on Sept 22, 2009 3:26:00 GMT
Which she didn't know until Jack told her himself during their conversation last chapter. So she can't hear more than three feet awayOf course, if you look at the page before and the page after the one you're linking to (The ones that actually show Annie and Kat up close and provide context) you can see that maybe Annie was distracted and shaken herself. She might have heard that exchange, but all indications are that she didn't.
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Post by zingbat on Sept 22, 2009 3:27:18 GMT
You know, regardless of what we think of Jack, I sort of feel like we need to see *just* Annie and Jack interacting before we can actually draw conclusions about Annie's intentions toward Jack and his problems. In the only instances where they've had any sustained interaction (I'm not counting that glance in the woods here) since leaving Zimmingham, they've been interrupted by someone or something before any discussion or anything can really happen: -when Annie first meets Jack in the hallway, Jack starts in with a barrage of questions and then Reynardine jumps in before Annie can answer (or tell Jack to cool down/back off); -when Annie's (etherically) watching Jack examining the blinker stone, suddenly ZAP! glowy spider! and Annie kind of freaks and blinks the stone back; -in the most recent scene, before Annie can even talk to Jack, Kat calls him a creep and a thief, he responds in kind, and then both Jack and Kat are on the defensive and in no mood to have a productive conversation. I don't know if we're likely to see Annie and Jack get a chance to talk any time soon, since she's apparently creeped out by him, but I think it's too soon to say if Annie wants to help him, if she thinks he's just a jerk and not worth the effort, if she's too scared of him, if she's not sure she can actually help, etc.
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 3:40:15 GMT
BTW, maybe I'm the last person who should be casting stones, but, is the sarcasm I detect in your last few posts necessary? I am merely quite tired of this kind of sentiment: Indefensible, Jack. Dude must not really care that much about getting help from Annie, if he's willing to be so rude to her now. Even through whatever ill-effects he is experiencing, Jack is my favorite character for having the ability to be direct. "Hey Annie what happened that night." None of this "why do you ask?" "oh....no, it's nothing....." malarkey. First a laser cow, next he fixes Zimmy. Man of action. Jack for president. Also I don't really recall Annie as being so easily frightened as she is being made out to be.
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 22, 2009 3:59:51 GMT
Alternatively, she wants to date him and wants no interference from Kat. Already picked. Man all she has to do is express even a little concern. "What happened to you that night?" And why exactly she "had to" track him and ask him to solve his problems? It's not her job, and she's not his mom or something. When he asked "what the hell", she tried to give some answer ( panel 2), but this led to nothing as he was too busy juggling his rollaway marbles to hear.
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Sept 22, 2009 4:31:46 GMT
I should have specified. All she had to do to not make me think poorly of her. To me, shovel's glance in the woods is a pretty deliberate cold shoulder. Didn't Annie berate herself for not helping Jeanne? Person in need right here! And you're one of the only ones even capable of knowing something is amiss!
It is like the woman attacked in the apartment complex and no one calls the police because they all think the others will do it. Except it's just Annie, Zimmy, and Gamma which means it's all up to Annie.
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Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 5:25:37 GMT
To me, shovel's glance in the woods is a pretty deliberate cold shoulder. That is interesting, because to me, that look was one of a mild sense of dread at being stuck out in the woods with the guy who tried to pin her to the wall. The way I see things, Jack has -never- presented himself to Annie as someone who needed her help. He only presented himself as someone who intended to use her to get to Zimmy. And who was prepared to menace and threaten her in order to forcibly get that information from her. But then again, I think these are clear indications that a person takes from a scene whatever they go into the scene already believing.
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Post by pepoluan on Sept 22, 2009 5:27:39 GMT
Jack's amazing. Despite whether he's disturbed!Jack or possessed!Jack or jerk!Jack or obnoxious!Jack or creepy!Jack or even evil!Jack, everytime he shows up the forum erupts in controversy and spirited debates. Of course there's someone to truly appreciate for this: Tom, master of suspense, hidden intentions, and totally unexpected turns of events. Tom, you're plain awesome. Yessir! :-) (And to prevent misunderstanding - somewhat common lately in the forum - this is not sarcasm nor satire nor criticism. Tom is awesome, and I just want to express my respect to Tom. All hail the Tom! )
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Post by Casey on Sept 22, 2009 5:33:57 GMT
Man all she has to do is express even a little concern [...] to not make me think poorly of her. Is that sufficient?
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Post by hal9000 on Sept 22, 2009 5:55:56 GMT
The way I see things, Jack has -never- presented himself to Annie as someone who needed her help. To be fair though, neither did Jeanne, unless you count slashing someone's face with a vorpal sword to be a cry for help. In which case, certainly Jack's somewhat forward behavior in the hallway would probably count as a similar thing.
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