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Post by pyradonis on Dec 7, 2022 13:46:24 GMT
Did we ever find out how Shadow 2 got back in the court? A shadow man took over Robot and controlled him, trying to kill Annie, but Eglamore took care of that when he sliced up Robot and the shadow man. Where was Shadow 2 in all this? We later see him in the court, with no comment or explanation. I can't believe Eglamore would have allowed him to enter if he saw him, and he couldn't cross the bridge without someone providing shade! He approached Annie shortly after she had landed at the riverbank and stayed after the hollow fairies had translated for him that he was innocent regarding S13's possession. When Kat came to pick Annie up, Annie smuggled Shadow 2 back into the Court in her shoe. |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 7, 2022 16:03:32 GMT
Did we ever find out how Shadow 2 got back in the court? A shadow man took over Robot and controlled him, trying to kill Annie, but Eglamore took care of that when he sliced up Robot and the shadow man. Where was Shadow 2 in all this? We later see him in the court, with no comment or explanation. I can't believe Eglamore would have allowed him to enter if he saw him, and he couldn't cross the bridge without someone providing shade! I understand that (our) Shadow was conceived and born in the Court. I dont remember the page, where he said that he does not hate the Court, he has lived all his live there. Right, but he left! Robot carried him out! |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 7, 2022 16:04:18 GMT
Did we ever find out how Shadow 2 got back in the court? A shadow man took over Robot and controlled him, trying to kill Annie, but Eglamore took care of that when he sliced up Robot and the shadow man. Where was Shadow 2 in all this? We later see him in the court, with no comment or explanation. I can't believe Eglamore would have allowed him to enter if he saw him, and he couldn't cross the bridge without someone providing shade! He approached Annie shortly after she had landed at the riverbank and stayed after the hollow fairies had translated for him that he was innocent regarding S13's possession. When Kat came to pick Annie up, Annie smuggled Shadow 2 back into the Court in her shoe. Ahhh you are correct, I totally forgot the shoe incident.  Thanks! |
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 8, 2022 1:13:05 GMT
Did we ever find out how Shadow 2 got back in the court? A shadow man took over Robot and controlled him, trying to kill Annie, but Eglamore took care of that when he sliced up Robot and the shadow man. Where was Shadow 2 in all this? We later see him in the court, with no comment or explanation. I can't believe Eglamore would have allowed him to enter if he saw him, and he couldn't cross the bridge without someone providing shade! In chapter 8, Annie brought him back hidden in her shoe. Edit: Whoops, didn't see that pyradonis beat me to the punch. |
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Post by saardvark on Dec 8, 2022 1:54:48 GMT
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Post by Georgie L on Dec 9, 2022 14:03:32 GMT
That's cause of the boat chapter |
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Post by saardvark on Dec 9, 2022 16:40:38 GMT
That's cause of the boat chapter Well, they mention ether connected peeps find the ocean "difficult" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2662but that they are not *allowed* passage, not that they can't manage it (Zimmy survived the trip, after all, and it seemed to have no effect on Gamma or Annie at all). So Kat could infer that Loup might find the ocean "difficult/painful/repellant" but with god-like powers, it doesnt seem impossible that he could overcome its irritating effects.... |
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Post by Runningflame on Feb 5, 2023 5:56:47 GMT
Page 1271: In the panels where Kat is trying to be all suave, Paz looks startled or confused; but in the panels where Kat forgets to be suave and reverts to her usual enthusiastic nerdy self, Paz smiles. I see echoes of Annie's advice to Kat way back in chapter 13.
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Post by blazingstar on Feb 14, 2023 21:15:47 GMT
Definitely before meeting Kat, because he only met her after being paperclipped. so further supporting that Robot all this time has known things well in advance and was instructed by Alt timeline Kat who set off this loop so that Annie lives Thanks to you guys, I'm re-reading a bit, and I'm pretty sure Robot didn't get in trouble for spreading the myth that Kat is an Angel - it was for spreading the myth of the Divine-Created Tic-Tocs. |
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Post by Corvo on Feb 14, 2023 22:53:49 GMT
so further supporting that Robot all this time has known things well in advance and was instructed by Alt timeline Kat who set off this loop so that Annie lives Thanks to you guys, I'm re-reading a bit, and I'm pretty sure Robot didn't get in trouble for spreading the myth that Kat is an Angel - it was for spreading the myth of the Divine-Created Tic-Tocs. Well, we saw all the interactions the Tic-Toc had in its time travel, and it never met Robot. So unless Kat sends the Tic-Toc back again, this sounds off. Plus, Robot said the "angel will usher [the robots] into a new realm of existence". How did he came up with that from the Tic-Toc? |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 15, 2023 0:59:54 GMT
so further supporting that Robot all this time has known things well in advance and was instructed by Alt timeline Kat who set off this loop so that Annie lives Thanks to you guys, I'm re-reading a bit, and I'm pretty sure Robot didn't get in trouble for spreading the myth that Kat is an Angel - it was for spreading the myth of the Divine-Created Tic-Tocs. Doubtful. The Tic-Toc was prominently displayed on the banners carried by the robot king's retinue, and obviously a well-known myth among robotkind. |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 15, 2023 5:06:54 GMT
so further supporting that Robot all this time has known things well in advance and was instructed by Alt timeline Kat who set off this loop so that Annie lives Thanks to you guys, I'm re-reading a bit, and I'm pretty sure Robot didn't get in trouble for spreading the myth that Kat is an Angel - it was for spreading the myth of the Divine-Created Tic-Tocs. He is talking about Kat without knowing it is Kat because once, she doesn't exist yet, hasn't been named, and saying her name might put undo attention to her once she exist in this myth building |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Feb 15, 2023 12:35:22 GMT
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Post by blazingstar on Feb 15, 2023 16:27:37 GMT
Well, we saw all the interactions the Tic-Toc had in its time travel, and it never met Robot. So unless Kat sends the Tic-Toc back again, this sounds off. Plus, Robot said the "angel will usher [the robots] into a new realm of existence". How did he came up with that from the Tic-Toc? He is talking about Kat without knowing it is Kat because once, she doesn't exist yet, hasn't been named, and saying her name might put undo attention to her once she exist in this myth building No it was specifically him talking about the angel that got him into trouble.... Well damn. So many good arguments so quickly! Look, either we missed something crucial, or this is a case of Occam's Razor (Kat was just the first person Robot saw when he woke up, if it were Annie she would have been the Angel instead), or this is a WildSpec-level Xanatos Gambit by future-Mecha-Goddess-Kat, or we're all overthinking and it's just a plot hole. I don't know which to believe anymore. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 15, 2023 20:55:13 GMT
My personal theory on why Robot predicted an angel and recognized Kat as an angel or the angel: Some have speculated that perhaps the Seraph series has something transcendental about it but that's never been shown in the comic. Robot said that the Seraphs' predecessors were designed to fight, so what I think happened is simple mission creep; the Seraphs took over their predecessors' role but over time this expanded from just physical threats to the robots and the Court. Like the rest of the robots they were concerned with progress, they formulated thoughts on what was necessary for progress along with all the other robots, and at some point those thoughts hardened into dogma. I think they began to police the other robots and each other for thoughts that were crazy or heretical from the perspective of that dogma. Now they think they have to oversee everything robot-related. We saw a number of deactivated and dismantled robots, relegated to spare parts status and stored with deceptive label similar to the 113 warehouse, very early in the comic. Some may have just been worn out old bodies, but at least one (#13) was probably there for his prediction of an angel and the trouble that caused. Why predict an angel? Well, we did see Seraphs employing paper talismans so there's a chance they could have employed other magic as well, like trying divination or scrying, and that could be the source of the prophesy and part of the trouble Robot caused... but I don't think that's needed to explain how things went down. I think "the angel" was what Robot decided was necessary, therefore would eventually come to pass in the Court given enough time. A generic angel could be someone who would have the skills to bring about the next leap in robots becoming more like their ideal. The Court gathers lots of smart people; it's actually a pretty safe bet as long as you don't set a time limit or get specific. Just that might be enough to get Robot deactivated, as it would be a distraction from the robots striving to bring about their own improvements, but maybe not so I theorize Robot probably also included some particulars in his prophesy that made him a potential threat to robot orthodoxy. To be specific, I suspect he predicted the angel would have an angelic appearance... and yes I know that may seem obvious but actually it isn't necessarily so. If a human did appear who was capable of helping the robots but who wasn't attractive then the prophesy would be a hinderance to the robots' progress. Additionally, it's in the comic that Robot long predicted the angel, which should place it not merely prior to his deactivation but for some time before that, which puts it at least prior to Antimony coming to the Court, possibly much further back. What does attractive mean in this context? What's an angelic appearance? I'm not going to bother to link it because this post has already eaten enough time but we all know that robots in the Court are given to becoming infatuated with particular humans. Why? Well, I think it's because Diego was attracted to at least one woman and the robots were made by very sophisticated golems who's minds were modeled on Diego's. Presumably without intentional programming the "Jeanne" "she died and we did nothing" challenge/response was passed down, so I think other more subtle things were passed down also. Robots also may want to become closer to humans by forming relationships not just to be closer to becoming human but because their model also desired such, so that may be an end in itself. The robots who are attracted to humans may not be able to explain why someone's appearance or mannerisms are attractive to them (with one exception which I'll address later) but some people just fit the bill. Maybe Diego's personal preferences are involved but there's been a lot of dilution and I think there's also some conflation of angelic appearance and physical attractiveness. Kat's female, cute, and has a nice personality; that can be said to be angelic by itself. If Diego was a kid Kat's age I think he'd be into her both physically and on an intellectual level and she's more "achievable" than Jeanne. Angels are frequently depicted so the robots should "know" what they look like but Kat lacks wings and halo; what she does have is a lab coat when Robot first asks if she's an angel. She's looking down on him as he is on the slab, and that relative position may have triggered a primal memory (in a manner of speaking) connecting Kat and Diego. Even if it didn't, how people dress does suggest their role in society. Then Kat's technical abilities (like bringing robots back from the dead) reinforced the notion over and over go without saying, so I'll skip over that part to save myself some typing. I feel her abilities would be attractive to robots in and of themselves (and they make for an easily explainable angelic-trait) as their predecessors would have been programmed to respond positively to their creator, but with all these things together Kat is a key that perfectly fits the lock. They couldn't have built a better angel even with Court tech. Partly that's because I think they aren't aware or can't express why Kat is the angel but they know it when they see it. Final thot: The Seraphs and Robot do not seem to be above trying to manipulate Kat, so maybe their idea of an angel isn't something exactly holy, and maybe doesn't match up with a human idea of what an angel is... though humans do have a long history of trying to manipulate their angels/gods/goddesses/spirits/whatever. |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 15, 2023 22:32:19 GMT
The pomps didn't know Jeanne's name the entire time until Annie and Kat's intervention but www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=649The robot king and them knew from the toy recording. Shows how limited the rotd and them know about things unless it really only in their scope. Which is much smaller than I realized |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Feb 16, 2023 9:23:29 GMT
I assume Kat's time travel shenanigans will cause Robot to become programmed with knowledge of her before he actually meets her.
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 16, 2023 13:59:16 GMT
Why predict an angel? Well, we did see Seraphs employing paper talismans so there's a chance they could have employed other magic as well, like trying divination or scrying, The talismans (as well as information about students and their abilities) can be simply taken from the Court’s reserves, and we did not see any evidence that their activation is anything but touch-reactive. Beyond that, there’s no indication whatsoever that the Seraphs or any other robots have any etheric presence or abilities beyond being golems and sapient. This certainly counts for something, but the only observable result so far was… being warped while in Zimmingham, much like the ship and its remotes, which suggests their bodies count as “inanimate objects guided by will” or something, rather than “creatures” proper. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 16, 2023 17:14:51 GMT
Why predict an angel? Well, we did see Seraphs employing paper talismans so there's a chance they could have employed other magic as well, like trying divination or scrying, The talismans (as well as information about students and their abilities) can be simply taken from the Court’s reserves, and we did not see any evidence that their activation is anything but touch-reactive. Beyond that, there’s no indication whatsoever that the Seraphs or any other robots have any etheric presence or abilities beyond being golems and sapient. This certainly counts for something, but the only observable result so far was… being warped while in Zimmingham, much like the ship and its remotes, which suggests their bodies count as “inanimate objects guided by will” or something, rather than “creatures” proper. I agree but by the same token if they have access to the Court's reserves (or wherever the paper talismans came from) what else do/did they have access to that they might be able to use regardless of their status? This could include non-magical fortune telling and divination stuff that Robot may have used to create the prophesy he wanted to hear, or a genuine etherically-talented individual helping. |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 8, 2023 21:35:41 GMT
i've re-read this page at least 10 times www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=466just noticed the little army men in a guard line protecting Gamma |
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 9, 2023 1:50:57 GMT
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 17, 2023 15:30:06 GMT
Simple, but in Treatise 7: Annie looks back at Anthony on the left balcony. His right hand is hidden behind a pillar. No spoilers! |
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Post by bedinsis on Mar 24, 2023 18:00:20 GMT
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Post by Isildur on Jul 11, 2023 22:26:31 GMT
Not exactly "only" noticed on reread, but I was just reminded that it was predicted that Antimony would "soon" be able to levitate her body. Even with her flame on, that hasn't happened yet, has it? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=681Also, Red later blamed Annie for putting others in danger, but it was Parley who first requested they let her confront Jeanne again without telling the Court. Before that, Annie had only sent herself down. I'm not saying Annie is blameless, but it's another way I don't think that Red's castigation of Annie was entirely fair. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=782(This may be an over-reading, but it seemed that Red's accusation against Annie, by extension, could have been a bit of an intentional "gotcha" played on the readers themselves for rooting for Annie's perhaps-reckless-by-real-world-standards-but-kinda-par-for-the-course-in-the-genre plan; Tom seems to occasionally like to poke at the readers for their assumptions and judgments -- a phenomenon seen also with the impression readers were given of Anthony. Or you could consider these "attempts to challenge readers to examine their assumptions".) |
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Post by Eily on Jul 14, 2023 8:34:53 GMT
As I noticed we were (kind of) approaching chapter 100 I wondered if there was anything significant about chapter 50. It starts by explicitly mentioning that Coyote has never met Kat, and then goes on to show that the Court had been doing something similar to her work with the new people all along, except in a creepier and slightly incomplete way. Incomplete because they need Coyote's help for the Life component, where it's implied that she turns Life of Clay into Real Life™, which seems to be why she is seen as a new goddess, whereas Coyote only saw the Court as humans pretending to be gods.
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Post by blahzor on Jul 14, 2023 10:20:54 GMT
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jul 17, 2023 16:09:34 GMT
I think he's calling the wisp a liar.
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Post by Isildur on Jul 19, 2023 16:27:16 GMT
I think he's calling the wisp a liar. Yes, I always interpreted that as Coyote whispering through the ether. |
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Post by Isildur on Jul 19, 2023 16:52:18 GMT
As I noticed we were (kind of) approaching chapter 100 I wondered if there was anything significant about chapter 50. It starts by explicitly mentioning that Coyote has never met Kat, and then goes on to show that the Court had been doing something similar to her work with the new people all along, except in a creepier and slightly incomplete way. Incomplete because they need Coyote's help for the Life component, where it's implied that she turns Life of Clay into Real Life™, which seems to be why she is seen as a new goddess, whereas Coyote only saw the Court as humans pretending to be gods. And ends with that "Friends" homage, of all things. I'm not expecting any further takes on random '90s sitcoms, but who knows? Maybe somewhere among the exiled forest creatures there'll yet turn out to be a Murphy Brown Bear, a Paul Buck-man and a Jamie Doe-Woman, a Raymond Barn Owl, and an elusive creature known only by its tracks, the Fresh Prints. |
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Post by ysenfrown on Jul 28, 2023 2:05:22 GMT
Something I just noticed when rereading the last few chapters: in the last page of page 2747, Annie's smile is EXACTLY the same as Paz's smile on page 2769.
I initially just thought that perhaps it was a drawing idiosyncrasy, but now I'm starting to wonder—Paz's smile strikes me as reading as false, or someone who is pretending that everything is OK, given the context of her and Annie's conversation right before, where she says that she's going to Spain and weeps. Therefore, I think it could be reasonable to assume that Annie's smile, the same close-eyed, close-mouthed expression, is also her pretending that everything is OK. Maybe you could interpret it as general unease over what happened between her and Paz—and I think that's a very reasonable interpretation!—but I've been turning Annie's crush over in my head for, oh, the years since Court!Annie confirmed that there WAS a crush. And I think now that perhaps she's been secretly pining after Kat & that they're perhaps endgame.
Do I have anything ELSE to support this? No, not really; I gave up the idea of Kat being Annie's secret crush around the time of the cruise, when Annie seemed so genuinely supportive of Kat and Paz. But I'm just stuck on that smile !
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Thanks!
