[2917] "a life taken by her own hand"

[imaginaryfriend]

I didn't agree with that when Robot said it and while I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's aged badly I agree with it even less now.

Sidenote: No barnacles on the flight feathers this page?

[madjack]

Mar 20, 2024 7:04:57 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Sidenote: No barnacles on the flight feathers this page?

Looks like they're just being used to break up the page rather than be an accurate depiction of what Robot looks like right now.

[imaginaryfriend]

Mar 20, 2024 7:13:34 GMT madjack said:

Mar 20, 2024 7:04:57 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Sidenote: No barnacles on the flight feathers this page?

Looks like they're just being used to break up the page rather than be an accurate depiction of what Robot looks like right now.

Flipping back a few pages the current-day feathers in #2915 and before didn't have barnacles, just the panel dividing ones in #2916 so far.

[Cori]

I'm glad Annie is finally becoming privy to Robot's fanaticism. Wait until she learns he was responsible for the Torn Sea incident.

Though I don't think there's much she can do to roll back his influence now.

[silicondream]

Mar 20, 2024 7:04:57 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I didn't agree with that when Robot said it and while I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's aged badly I agree with it even less now.

I don't think it's objectively wrong, though.  Kat destroyed a tool while trying to impress Paz and didn't regret it.  Of course she wouldn't feel the same way if that tool was sentient, but robots are designed and trained to value their utility over their personhood.  From that perspective, the fact that they have minds and the cyber-wing doesn't is a minor detail.  (And it's not as if the Court disagrees.)

They always want to know how best to serve, and Kat's act showed that some tools are made to be broken.

[rafk]

Unfortunately this bit gives me flashbacks to Jupiter Ascending and Eddie Redmayne's infamous ""I CREATE LIFE!!! ...and I destroy it" line read which always gives me the giggles.

Then I remember Mila Kunis' "I've always loved dogs!" in the context of coming onto Channing Tatum's character after he said he had more in common with dogs than with her, and where were we again?

[bicarbonat]

Mar 20, 2024 8:21:06 GMT rafk said:

Unfortunately this bit gives me flashbacks to Jupiter Ascending and Eddie Redmayne's infamous ""I CREATE LIFE!!! ...and I destroy it" line read which always gives me the giggles.

Then I remember Mila Kunis' "I've always loved dogs!" in the context of coming onto Channing Tatum's character after he said he had more in common with dogs than with her, and where were we again?

You've entered the lower layers of the Wachowski 'verse – if you drift into Speed Racer, we need somebody to give you the kick.

[tibert]

Mar 20, 2024 7:42:34 GMT Cori said:

I'm glad Annie is finally becoming privy to Robot's fanaticism. Wait until she learns he was responsible for the Torn Sea incident.

Though I don't think there's much she can do to roll back his influence now.

Can Robot himself roll back his own influence by now?

I look forward to:

- the Torn Sea's preparations (with hyper-frowning Annie)

- Mommy's scolding (if Robot still thinks of Annie like that). Will Annie acknowledge she was herself not above playing the angel card?

- how all this will be convoyed to Kat, if someone decides to do so.

- Kat's reaction
How much was she aware Robot started and cultivated the angel-calling trend? She might even have thought of him as one of the rare robots not being swayed by the religious thinking.
Did Kat ever read, watched or played Dune? "Not in my name!"
Though, she has been mostly accepting that the robots' compliance was above the call of duty.

***

There have been so many fun suggestions for distorted Robot's face, but I don't think anyone guessed "Flashbacks". There may be a more physical face yet to see, perhaps (forked tongue! televangelist!).

[blahzor]

Annie: wait a second...how did you not invite me into this cult?!

[tibert]

Mar 20, 2024 9:02:30 GMT blahzor said:

Annie: wait a second...how did you not invite me into this cult?!

Renard: I fail to see any inaccuracy in these teachings.

[guntherkrieg]

This is a bit of a weak pay-off, if I'm being honest. Annie is just being told about the Robot Cult via etheric flashback, like the story is just going, "oh hey, so there was this big plotline running that you didn't know about, now deal with it".

Up til now, only Shadow and Loup knew Robot was acting like Jim Jonesbot and neither of them have informed the main cast (in Loup's case he wouldn't directly, but could have let something slip inadvertently).

Might have been better for Annie to suspect at something was amiss much earlier through her own observations. Or, you know, through Shadow actually telling her about what he's seen.

This is sort of the in-universe equivalent of Tell, Don't Show, which seems to happen in-lieu of realistic communication happening between characters who should rightfully talk to each other.

[arf]

I always thought this scene demonstrated how the slightest whim of gods becomes ardent doctrine.

I don't blame Robot for this one: when we am like gods, we need to pay attention to how our slightest whims are picked up and used.

[ctso74]

What till Robot starts to remember the Hymnals of Mathematics. Annie will be lost and less pleased.

[morrahadesigns]

Mar 20, 2024 8:21:06 GMT rafk said:

Unfortunately this bit gives me flashbacks to Jupiter Ascending and Eddie Redmayne's infamous ""I CREATE LIFE!!! ...and I destroy it" line read which always gives me the giggles.

Then I remember Mila Kunis' "I've always loved dogs!" in the context of coming onto Channing Tatum's character after he said he had more in common with dogs than with her, and where were we again?

The thing I remember most about that film was listening to the RoosterTeeth podcast talking about how no one had cosplayed that film. I'm sure some have cropped up here and there, but at that point it was all crickets which never happens for new films in the genre. A lot of times there are fans making costumes based off the trailers alone.  
You've got to be pretty bad to be ignored by the cosplay community. 

[morrahadesigns]

Mar 20, 2024 10:06:16 GMT guntherkrieg said:

This is a bit of a weak pay-off, if I'm being honest. Annie is just being told about the Robot Cult via etheric flashback, like the story is just going, "oh hey, so there was this big plotline running that you didn't know about, now deal with it".

Up til now, only Shadow and Loup knew Robot was acting like Jim Jonesbot and neither of them have informed the main cast (in Loup's case he wouldn't directly, but could have let something slip inadvertently).

Might have been better for Annie to suspect at something was amiss much earlier through her own observations. Or, you know, through Shadow actually telling her about what he's seen.

This is sort of the in-universe equivalent of Tell, Don't Show, which seems to happen in-lieu of realistic communication happening between characters who should rightfully talk to each other.

I see your point but I also wonder if this is meant to be pay-off or just groundwork for something more. 
Shadow isn't a liar or secretive but he is technically young and naive. I think maybe he didn't know what to do or didn't realize the depth of it in order to tell anyone. Or possibly Robot leveraged his relationship with Shadow to have him keep the secrets.  

Loup does seem more likely to be the one to let it slip, but maybe Coyote didn't want it slipped for some reason? 

All conjecture still, but I am willing to wait and see. Though I do wish Tom would speed it up a bit. This is definitely starting to feel like a bunch of filler/recap.

[Gemminie]

The style is similar to the previous page, although there's a notable lack of barnacles; the "panel" "borders" are made of feathers (possibly metal feathers) and those antennae things. Robot's been going through his memories about convincing other robots to believe in the Angel, and he continues here, going through this incident from chapter 45, where Robot had a sort-of-funeral for Kat's sort-of-bird-wing.

Amid the recollections we see Annie, looking somewhat irritated. Tom's comment, "Annie's not liking the sound of this," implies that until now she didn't know that any of this happened. Of course, at the time, Annie had her own things to deal with. The life of a protagonist is a busy one. But at the rate this is going, Robot's going to hit chapter 49 pretty soon – you know, where Robot was in cahoots with the seraph bots in a plan that endangered a whole ocean liner full of students, not to mention Kat and Annie herself? If Annie doesn't like the revelations so far, what's she going to do when that one comes? Hoo boy. Annie might give Robot a new form by melting this one.

Annie and the others don't seem to be reacting in as surprised a way as they would if they were actually seeing these flashbacks as visions or distortion recreations, so Robot's probably just telling them about these incidents, and it's only we readers who see them as images.

How long has Robot been a barnacle cilia angel? Since the distortion hit? But Shadow came running up to Annie a little while after she and Renard arrived at Kat's workshop with Sam's body. Was Shadow running around in a panic from the end of chapter 90 until he found Annie? Or perhaps when he found Annie he'd only just discovered Robot's transformation. I'm wondering this because part of me is suspicious that Robot's only using these revelations as a way to distract Annie from something that's happening to Kat right now. Perhaps he's instigated the final transformation of Kat into the Angel somehow (Diego's arrow remains a conspicuous Chekhov's gun), or perhaps Kat's inadvertently done so herself by holding a funeral service for Sam (why have we looked away from that?).

[pyradonis]

I like Annie looking more and more annoyed. Though I'm really hoping it won't continue with her getting exactly one kind of "What the frack were you thinking?" question out, which will not be answered and she'll let it drop because something else grabs her attention.

Mar 20, 2024 7:04:57 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I didn't agree with that when Robot said it and while I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's aged badly I agree with it even less now.

Sidenote: No barnacles on the flight feathers this page?

I agree with your disagreement, this burned proto-wing was never alive, let alone sentient. Neither a machine nor an organic body. But a convenient next step for the cult.

Mar 20, 2024 10:06:16 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Up til now, only Shadow and Loup knew Robot was acting like Jim Jonesbot and neither of them have informed the main cast (in Loup's case he wouldn't directly, but could have let something slip inadvertently).

Did Loup actually know this? Without re-reading everything I only remember Loup seeing S13 as a more mundane leader type, some kind of second-in-command. Another cast member however who actually knows about all this was Arthur (he had been explicitly shown to be present during sermons), but he didn't ever seem to talk about it to our protagonists about it. Did he tell Juliette, I wonder, when they were still doing their jobs as Shadow Men?

Mar 20, 2024 15:32:11 GMT Gemminie said:

I'm wondering this because part of me is suspicious that Robot's only using these revelations as a way to distract Annie from something that's happening to Kat right now. Perhaps he's instigated the final transformation of Kat into the Angel somehow (Diego's arrow remains a conspicuous Chekhov's gun), or perhaps Kat's inadvertently done so herself by holding a funeral service for Sam (why have we looked away from that?).

"Do it? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."

[mturtle7]

Mar 20, 2024 10:06:16 GMT guntherkrieg said:

This is a bit of a weak pay-off, if I'm being honest. Annie is just being told about the Robot Cult via etheric flashback, like the story is just going, "oh hey, so there was this big plotline running that you didn't know about, now deal with it".

Up til now, only Shadow and Loup knew Robot was acting like Jim Jonesbot and neither of them have informed the main cast (in Loup's case he wouldn't directly, but could have let something slip inadvertently).

Might have been better for Annie to suspect at something was amiss much earlier through her own observations. Or, you know, through Shadow actually telling her about what he's seen.

This is sort of the in-universe equivalent of Tell, Don't Show, which seems to happen in-lieu of realistic communication happening between characters who should rightfully talk to each other.

I always kinda had the impression that Robot's arc was leading up to a big climactic moment where he'd finally go too far in an extremely public way, and the main cast would have to confront him and fight him and/or persuade him to change his ways, all the while grappling with the emotional turmoil his betrayal caused. 

I'm also pretty sure that the main reason that is NOT how that arc is getting resolved now is because the comic has been in a dead sprint for the last 5 years to get through all the major plot points necessary for it to end, and letting Robot's cult stuff resolve at a sensible pace would just be wasting too much time  that could instead be spent on what is now the "main plot".

Now that I think about it, I guess you could say that the real "Great Distortion" that Zimmy created is actually in narrative pacing – this entire arc has felt simultaneously too fast and too slow, because Tom is trying to fit several years' worth of story build-up and resolution into a few chapters. Coyote's plan for Loup, revealed and thwarted? DONE. Kat becomes a psychopomp? DONE. Robot's cult revealed, and his character redeemed? DONE. I'm now all but sure that the secret of Omega will be revealed in the next chapter or two, and Loup will be killed or otherwise taken out of the plot somehow. Wonderful.

...You know, I think I might just take a break from the comic for a few months, again. I'm getting way too frustrated with all this, and that's a bad sign.

See y'all in...May, I guess? I'll probably be ready to have fun again by May.

[eyemyself]

Mar 20, 2024 10:06:16 GMT guntherkrieg said:

This is a bit of a weak pay-off, if I'm being honest. Annie is just being told about the Robot Cult via etheric flashback, like the story is just going, "oh hey, so there was this big plotline running that you didn't know about, now deal with it".

Up til now, only Shadow and Loup* knew Robot was acting like Jim Jonesbot and neither of them have informed the main cast (in Loup's case he wouldn't directly, but could have let something slip inadvertently).

Might have been better for Annie to suspect at something was amiss much earlier through her own observations. Or, you know, through Shadow actually telling her about what he's seen.

This is sort of the in-universe equivalent of Tell, Don't Show, which seems to happen in-lieu of realistic communication happening between characters who should rightfully talk to each other.

Because in real-life people always talk to each other about difficult things and they never have quandaries over torn loyalties, conflicts of conscience, or overlooking small signs that something might be going on they may need to pay attention to.

Annie is not the most perceptive when it comes to other people’s feelings under the best of circumstances. In her experience, Robot has always been very childlike and innocent. Even now, her driving motive to this point stemmed from her protective feelings towards him.

And Shadow, well, Shadow is a youngster in love. As far as we know, Robot is Shadow’s first love. Shadow has been worried about Robot’s fanatic behavior and trying to address it directly for a very long time. People tend to want to shield those they love from judgement and potential negative consequences even when they are worried about them. Even when you know that they need help, bringing other people in to address the problem can often feel like a betrayal of that special relationship. Happens all the time with addiction, eating disorders, domestic violence and other potentially harmful circumstances.

For all his childlike behavior, Robot is one of the oldest members of our little group. He’s potentially older than Reynard and has shown significant skill at matching his behavior to the expectations of whoever he is talking to based on his own agenda. Shadow, Annie, and Kat are all children. Even Reynard doesn’t have nearly the same level of experience observing and interacting with human society. Robot is a capable lier, a skilled manipulator, and an adept spy.

I’ve had people in my life with far less sophistication hide far bigger things than this from the people closest to them, including a dear friend who so successfully masked severe anorexia she was on death’s door before those around her stepped in, including me. We were roommates and I was one of two people who had a hunch about how much danger she was in. We agonized about whether or not to call her parents for more than a month, we were almost too late, she went into cardiac failure less than 24-hours after they checked her in to the rehabilitation program and had to be admitted to urgent care to stabilize before beginning treatment.

Another dear friend was in a cult for three years before they realized they needed to get out and get helped. None of us, not me or their other close friends, not their partner, not their roommate, not their parents had any clue until they told us what was going on.

And for my part, I spent three years in a severely abusive relationship and was in such deep denial I couldn’t even acknowledge it to myself until the mentor who was helping me with my memoir gently and persistently nudged me into taking an honest look at my life. It took several months for him to get through to me.

Having been in Shadow’s position more than once, working in addiction treatment & recovery settings for years, and disentangling myself from my own denial about being in a bad situation, I find Shadow’s reluctance to involve others in his concerns about Robot until there was an acute crisis totally believable. Love, loyalty, guilt, and fear are all very powerful emotions.

Our relationships are often filled with hidden knowledge that complicates our life’s and impairs our ability to make informed decisions. These days, I’m a seasoned communications professional and if there is one universal truth I’ve learned about interpersonal communication it’s that everyone, including me, is really truly terrible at it. It’s hard. It’s messy. It’s complicated. It’s so much easier to see things like this clearly from the outside or after the fact than it is to sus them out while they are happening.

Going back to the plot at hand, I think there’s a non-zero chance Kat already knows at least some, if not all of Robot’s hidden agenda. Kat’s been keeping secrets from the people she is closest to, too, including her decision to revive Diego’s originals to help w/NP conversations and the scope of her computational infrastructure. There’s a very good chance she’s been more open with Robot about her work w/the new people than she has been with Annie, especially since she and Robot share a deep investment in this particular goal, whereas to Annie it’s just a nice thing Kat is doing.

My suspicion is that Kat’s relationship with Robot and this project was the driving force behind the dark path the Norns spoke of that motivated OG Kat to break time to save Annie from her fall off the bridge and that this is where Annie’s presence provides a crucial check on Kat’s natural inclination to throw herself fully into her research, damn all the consequences. We’ve had a lot of contextual hints that without Annie’s influence, Kat would most likely surrender herself fully to the machine and in doing so undermine her own link to humanity.

* /As far as we, the readers, are aware/, only Shadow, Loup, the Seraphs, and all the Robots/NP recruited into Robot’s congregation…

Which is actually quite a lot of people in the know, when you think of it.

[Isildur]

The thing I don't get (and have long wondered about) is, why were they never weirded out by all the "Angel" stuff before? It deserved a serious talk with the robots long, long ago.

Yeah, Annie and Kat may have been accustomed to robots getting infatuated and worshipful about humans (like that guide warned), but that should have made them all the more alert. The intensely religious character of the robots' reverence should have been clear to both Kat and Annie many, many chapters ago, yet Kat was just being all "haha jeez" about it or at worst annoyed at unnecessary flowers, when it was clear for a long, long time that it was turning into something cultlike.

Is Annie just disappointed that it was Robot leading the worship? Because it was already clear that worship was happening.

[Igniz]

Mar 20, 2024 17:00:24 GMT pyradonis said:

"Do it? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."

You reminded me of this.

P.S. The story actually kinda went down that route.

[Corvo]

Well, she did say it.

[arf]

Mar 20, 2024 18:34:23 GMT Igniz said:

Mar 20, 2024 17:00:24 GMT pyradonis said:

"Do it? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."

You reminded me of this.

P.S. The story actually kinda went down that route.

Reminds me of this. Clearly a common meme.

Ever since we saw their veneration of Jeanne in Skywatcher, the robots' approach to religion has always been portrayed as naive. It's an approach that can twist tolerant amusement into shock, as when Kat and Annie discovered *why* they venerated Jeanne.

Viewed objectively, Robot has only been following that tradition, picking up partly understood phrases and using them out of context.

I think the shock value will come on Friday, when Annie sees "It was worth it" repeated by the seraphs following the ship incident. Having grown up a bit since the last time, I think her reaction this time will be more assertive.

[justhalf]

When people mentioned the Torn-Sea incident caused (directly/indirectly) by Robot, which chapter was it?

[imaginaryfriend]

Mar 21, 2024 4:31:56 GMT justhalf said:

When people mentioned the Torn-Sea incident caused (directly/indirectly) by Robot, which chapter was it?

Chapter 49 was Torn Sea. It was revealed at the end of the chapter that Robot was at the very least working with the Seraphs and potentially (I'd say probably) behind the whole incident. Recent developments provide more evidence but it hasn't been absolutely proven yet. That may change by the end of this chapter, though.

[storyteller]

Mar 20, 2024 17:00:24 GMT pyradonis said:

I like Annie looking more and more annoyed. Though I'm really hoping it won't continue with her getting exactly one kind of "What the frack were you thinking?" question out, which will not be answered and she'll let it drop because something else grabs her attention.

Honestly if that happens it is going to be everyone else's detriment. This is honestly probably in the too late to prevent category if Zimmy is right that Annie needs to keep an eye on Kat. Zimmy and her fear of Kat Angel has been repeatedly shown for over a decade I think. And Annie saw Kat Angel and said nothing long ago (freeing Jeanne and her Elf).

There's a ton of set up for Robot and Kat and Zimmy's view of it has been very much set up as possibly incorrect on the details but not wrong to be worried

[storyteller]

Honestly I think the reason I'm not as shook by the speed of events here is ... This house of cards hasn't ever been stable.

The ongoing element with Annie and Kat has been in regards to the Kat Angel Plot has been Kat being oblivious and not trusting Zimmy and Annie not been following up on sightings nor Zimmy flat out telling her that things are up.

I don't like Robot. I came into the comic later when he was much more cult leader so I never got attached. So I don't see him as someone who HAS to come back into the fold.

See between Coyote, The Court and Robot there's been three sets of machinations going on for the girls' entire childhood. And when one started the others also continued going - and Annie was caught off guard with Coyote with all the warnings. Her being surprised by Robot... Expected the entire time. Robot is a cult leader - them being allowed free reign is not a good thing and I'm not sure why people are surprised that things went badly quickly?

The entire comic has been the setup for the status quo being untenable and then unstable. This isn't a controlled demolition this is collapse.

I'm expecting devastation of the status quo and possibly straight on tragedy if Annie doesn't figure out what the hell is going on.

[drmemory]

We are finally seeing Annie find out about some of Robot's manipulation of Kat. The question is, is that stuff what he feels remorse about, or just part of the explanation of some much bigger/older stuff? I'm guessing that he's going to explain WHY he did that crap at some point. Or at least hoping!

[Igniz]

Mar 20, 2024 21:02:46 GMT arf said:

the robots' approach to religion has always been portrayed as naive. [...] Viewed objectively, Robot has only been following that tradition, picking up partly understood phrases and using them out of context.

Just as the Nora, Carja, Banuk, Oseram, Utaru, Tenakth and Quen.

Big plot revelation: The Seraphs will be revealed to actually be designed by FAS, not Diego, and are part of the Chariot line.

[arf]

Mar 22, 2024 8:23:45 GMT Igniz said:

Mar 20, 2024 21:02:46 GMT arf said:

the robots' approach to religion has always been portrayed as naive. [...] Viewed objectively, Robot has only been following that tradition, picking up partly understood phrases and using them out of context.

Just as the Nora, Carja, Banuk, Oseram, Utaru, Tenakth and Quen.

Big plot revelation: The Seraphs will be revealed to actually be designed by FAS, not Diego, and are part of the Chariot line.

Spoiler alert!

Bigger plot revelation: the Court (which has not been on Earth for some time) is revealed to have been founded by Far Zenith, and tbe distortion invoked by the collision of Loup, Coyote, and Zimmy is Nemesis.

It falls to Annie to set things right.

(It would be fun to imagine character crossovers)