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Post by Eversist on Nov 21, 2023 21:21:59 GMT
Of the options discussed, I hope it's Diego purely for the potential of awesome/horrible interaction between him and Annie, and also the "ohhh how far you've come" father-kinda talk the NPs will get.
But I do wonder if it's Robot.
I love that there are three strong possibilities here, hah.
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Love how the interpreter seems to be (so far) "oh we're in a distortion created by the minds of Coyote and two other creatures? NBD"
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 21, 2023 23:33:25 GMT
Wrong Answers Only Edition™ – Becky Ground!
Next page, she actually stays silent and off-panel, and we only see and hear Annie and the Interpreter talking at/about her, thus putting the ultimate twist on the expected "big reveal."
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 22, 2023 0:30:40 GMT
...Although, I guess I'll admit that on the IMPOSSIBLE CHANCE that it is somehow NOT my fave girl Becky, I'm 90% sure that it would just be Kat. Guesses for who has a claim on Sam's soul: - My first choice has to be Diego. As the creator of all the original golems, who in turn created their successors, who built their own successors, and so on, it all goes back to him. The problem is that he's dead (which explains Annie's "It can't be" reaction) – or at least we think he is. He left a final record in the RotD, so a psychopomp took him there and presumably took him into the Ether after that. But what did his final record say? "She died and I did nothing." That sounds like something one of his creations would say. What if at the moment of his death Diego swapped his essence with that of one of his creations, S1 for example (whose hand is that?), and the psychopomp took that essence into the Ether? Or what if Diego pulled some kind of trick after leaving the final record that resulted in his essence (or even just part of it) was stored in S1 (or perhaps even spreading it among all his golems, explaining their "she died and we did nothing" thing) before the psychopomp took the rest of it into the Ether? Kat put Robot's chip into S1's body, transferring at least S1's knowledge of fencing, but what if Diego's essence also transferred to Robot? He wasn't proselytizing before this happened, and then suddenly he was. So perhaps Diego's spirit is going to show up, or Robot's going to show up and reveal that Diego's essence is inside him, or the like.
- The ancient robot/golem that started Sam's series, whichever type of robot Sam used to be. We know they still exist and are active, except for one.
- Kat. She created Sam's body and the means by which his essence was transferred into it. That could mean that she has some kind of claim on that soul, I suppose, but it doesn't look like it to me; Kat's contract would cover only their bodies. I don't think Kat has any more of a claim on Sam's soul than, say, Robot does, since he's seemingly been more hands-on with transferring most of their essences than Kat has.
Then of course there's my ongoing question of why psychopomps are so eager to claim souls and so possessive of them, linked to why they didn't consider themselves to owe Annie anything for resolving the Jeanne situation. Ongoing mysteries. Possibly controversial counter-argument: I think that the robots Diego created did not, officially speaking, have souls at all. Remember, as far as Salsamel's department was concerned, they were just golems, non-living objects that fall under rules of ownership and are limited by the instructions which brought them to life. It's not really said anywhere one way or another, but I think it seems entirely reasonable to think that because of this, the robots simply had minds but not souls, hence why they had no psychopomp to take them into the ether. The NP, of course, are categorically different in that they are officially living creatures, with living minds. And by "living minds", I mean, of course, the ocean the Angel gave them, and the soul that comes with it. All that Robot really did was explain things to the robots who were getting new souls; by his own admission, he wasn't really responsible for the gift of the soul itself, so I don't think he deserves to be called "keeper of this soul". Kat's the one who built the living body, which is what allowed them to have living minds and living souls, AND she's responsible for initiating the actual transfer of essences into these new bodies, so I think she has a very solid claim on the NP's souls.
Not as solid as Becky's, of course. But honestly, who even knows what that girl get up to.
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Post by blahzor on Nov 22, 2023 0:56:59 GMT
I still think it's Kat, as I still think she owns the NP in some sense, thanks to her "new contract". That still leaves big questions though, like: 1. Is she also in trouble for arrow abuse or other contractual violations? 2. Does she officially need to become a psychopomp now? As for S13, I think she is already there, in the form of that mysterious dark-haired NP that nobody recognizes. Yes, I said "she", both because of her relationship with Shadow 2 and because of the angelic form she took in the Ocean chapter. She has to be there to say "I told you so" at the appropriate moment.  They will just ask her "As a goddess. Do you want to use a Phoenix down?" |
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Post by jda on Nov 22, 2023 7:36:46 GMT
I wouldn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Are you Nobody? |
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Post by gpvos on Nov 23, 2023 15:49:33 GMT
Possibly controversial counter-argument: I think that the robots Diego created did not, officially speaking, have souls at all. Remember, as far as Salsamel's department was concerned, they were just golems, non-living objects that fall under rules of ownership and are limited by the instructions which brought them to life. It's not really said anywhere one way or another, but I think it seems entirely reasonable to think that because of this, the robots simply had minds but not souls, hence why they had no psychopomp to take them into the ether. The NP, of course, are categorically different in that they are officially living creatures, with living minds. And by "living minds", I mean, of course, the ocean the Angel gave them, and the soul that comes with it. All that Robot really did was explain things to the robots who were getting new souls; by his own admission, he wasn't really responsible for the gift of the soul itself, so I don't think he deserves to be called "keeper of this soul". Kat's the one who built the living body, which is what allowed them to have living minds and living souls, AND she's responsible for initiating the actual transfer of essences into these new bodies, so I think she has a very solid claim on the NP's souls. An important point that is easily overlooked here is that Robot himself does not have a soul and cannot be psychopomped when he "dies". Although he received a more modern body with complicated feelings, his essence has not been transferred using the green arrow. |
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
Posts: 242
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Post by freeman on Nov 23, 2023 23:37:15 GMT
Hey it's guess time. I think this is in fact Kat, but she is needed here only to formally relinquish any ownership over the New People.
After that is done, Muut & the pomps show up and say: we own you don't you remember, yer a psychopomp, Annie! |
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 27, 2023 23:04:39 GMT
Possibly controversial counter-argument: I think that the robots Diego created did not, officially speaking, have souls at all. Remember, as far as Salsamel's department was concerned, they were just golems, non-living objects that fall under rules of ownership and are limited by the instructions which brought them to life. It's not really said anywhere one way or another, but I think it seems entirely reasonable to think that because of this, the robots simply had minds but not souls, hence why they had no psychopomp to take them into the ether. The NP, of course, are categorically different in that they are officially living creatures, with living minds. And by "living minds", I mean, of course, the ocean the Angel gave them, and the soul that comes with it. All that Robot really did was explain things to the robots who were getting new souls; by his own admission, he wasn't really responsible for the gift of the soul itself, so I don't think he deserves to be called "keeper of this soul". Kat's the one who built the living body, which is what allowed them to have living minds and living souls, AND she's responsible for initiating the actual transfer of essences into these new bodies, so I think she has a very solid claim on the NP's souls. An important point that is easily overlooked here is that Robot himself does not have a soul and cannot be psychopomped when he "dies". Although he received a more modern body with complicated feelings, his essence has not been transferred using the green arrow. Oooooh, I totally forgot about that! Man, that's really a juicy and ominous point. Good spotting! |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 28, 2023 9:44:41 GMT
Possibly controversial counter-argument: I think that the robots Diego created did not, officially speaking, have souls at all. Remember, as far as Salsamel's department was concerned, they were just golems, non-living objects that fall under rules of ownership and are limited by the instructions which brought them to life. It's not really said anywhere one way or another, but I think it seems entirely reasonable to think that because of this, the robots simply had minds but not souls, hence why they had no psychopomp to take them into the ether. The NP, of course, are categorically different in that they are officially living creatures, with living minds. And by "living minds", I mean, of course, the ocean the Angel gave them, and the soul that comes with it. All that Robot really did was explain things to the robots who were getting new souls; by his own admission, he wasn't really responsible for the gift of the soul itself, so I don't think he deserves to be called "keeper of this soul". Kat's the one who built the living body, which is what allowed them to have living minds and living souls, AND she's responsible for initiating the actual transfer of essences into these new bodies, so I think she has a very solid claim on the NP's souls. An important point that is easily overlooked here is that Robot himself does not have a soul and cannot be psychopomped when he "dies". Although he received a more modern body with complicated feelings, his essence has not been transferred using the green arrow. Is there a famous Chimera figure? Robot has been a chimera for awhile now |
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