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Post by bedinsis on Jul 10, 2023 7:01:20 GMT
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Post by madjack on Jul 10, 2023 7:05:36 GMT
Let's see what happens when a God meets a Kat.
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Post by brendanthenavigator on Jul 10, 2023 7:08:12 GMT
Now I'm trying to think - what have Coyote's past interactions with Kat been like? For two such major characters, I'm not sure I can think of a time they ever interacted directly...
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Post by maxptc on Jul 10, 2023 7:08:40 GMT
To be fair, Kat has been interfering with literally everyone's plans. Dare to is also not really accurate, just sorta happens as she goes about inventing.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 10, 2023 7:09:27 GMT
I can't help but observe that this is part of Coyote getting what he wanted. He died. The world has kept on spinning without him (this version of him, anyway) and stuff that he doesn't like has happened.
Also, panel 6: Oh nyo, a mad face! The maddest face!
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Post by arf on Jul 10, 2023 7:12:10 GMT
Kat: why are my ears suddenly burning?
How much agency has Coyote currently got, anyway?
(What would happen if you pressed that button now, Annie?)
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laaaa
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Post by laaaa on Jul 10, 2023 7:16:11 GMT
That's a very Loup expression you have there, Coyote.
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Post by bedinsis on Jul 10, 2023 7:20:38 GMT
Hmm, the comment about the shadow men made me think of something. Kat has so far made new people en masse but they are not her friends by default, she remained being "yeah yeah, whatever" when she kept getting flowers from them in the last chapter. Assuming she will at one point be dead but the collective belief of robotkind will make her a goddess, whose personality is shaped by the collective belief of the New People, can't that behaviour at one point be interpreted as her actually not caring about the New People and subsequently abandoning them for more interesting pursuits? I.e. an interpretation of her attitude similar to how Coyote's relationship to the glass eyed men is? It makes me wonder if Coyote's abandonment of the glass eyed men is a matter of gradual cosmic retcon via the collective belief of mankind. |
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Post by lightshade on Jul 10, 2023 7:38:27 GMT
Fingers crossed he decides to go after Kat directly as opposed to trying to destroy Lana and all the other New People to "teach her a lesson." Not that I want Kat to be hurt! I just think she stands a better chance of coming out unscathed when facing Coyote throwing a temper tantrum due to her pseudo-goddess status than the New People do. The absolute best scenario is he just knocks down a few buildings (or turns the ones already knocked down into smaller pieces of rubble) without hurting anyone and then calms down.
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anag
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Post by anag on Jul 10, 2023 7:53:52 GMT
Now I'm trying to think - what have Coyote's past interactions with Kat been like? For two such major characters, I'm not sure I can think of a time they ever interacted directly... They haven't. We've waited for it to happen, and seems that it's happening at worst possible footing... Oh shi... |
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Post by philman on Jul 10, 2023 8:30:18 GMT
We haven't had Kat and Coyote meeting yet at all.
Oh I do hope that Kat sees Coyote through her "boring-o-vision" as she did to the ROTD, and just sees him as a mangy old dog barking at her.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Jul 10, 2023 8:48:12 GMT
Coyote being able to jump out at any time kinda dampens:
1. The stakes / emotional heft resulting from Coyote being gone
2. The interesting philosophical question of: is Jerrek a construct / illusion that's become more real than the illusionist... who himself is unstable fusion of two ephemeral beings? The combined identity / splitting identity metamorphosis has been fascinating. But if it's mostly Coyote then it's more-or-less a puppet show.
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Post by blahzor on Jul 10, 2023 8:59:42 GMT
Let's see what happens when a God meets a Kat. She's looked into a mirror or at Paz |
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Post by blahzor on Jul 10, 2023 9:02:55 GMT
Fingers crossed he decides to go after Kat directly as opposed to trying to destroy Lana and all the other New People to "teach her a lesson." Not that I want Kat to be hurt! I just think she stands a better chance of coming out unscathed when facing Coyote throwing a temper tantrum due to her pseudo-goddess status than the New People do. The absolute best scenario is he just knocks down a few buildings (or turns the ones already knocked down into smaller pieces of rubble) without hurting anyone and then calms down. I mean she probably kept a backup of all their personalities just because on the transfer |
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Post by blahzor on Jul 10, 2023 9:05:20 GMT
Coyote being able to jump out at any time kinda dampens: 1. The stakes / emotional heft resulting from Coyote being gone 2. The interesting philosophical question of: is Jerrek a construct / illusion that's become more real than the illusionist... who himself is unstable fusion of two ephemeral beings? The combined identity / splitting identity metamorphosis has been fascinating. But if it's mostly Coyote then it's more-or-less a puppet show. One could say that Coyote isn't dead in any sort of light because Loup did not absorb the tooth. And Coyote is always all parts of him so he's in the tooth |
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Post by Angry Individual on Jul 10, 2023 9:14:17 GMT
I'm fully assuming that this Coyote can do honestly Nothing at this point, and is probably throwing a temper tantrum because of this fact.
Either that, or we're about to watch Loup implode because Coyote decided he was done.
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Post by rafk on Jul 10, 2023 9:55:31 GMT
Well, threatening Kat's life would definitely be a situation where Annie would stab COYOTE, anyway.
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Post by yellowb on Jul 10, 2023 10:15:42 GMT
We haven't had Kat and Coyote meeting yet at all. Oh I do hope that Kat sees Coyote through her "boring-o-vision" as she did to the ROTD, and just sees him as a mangy old dog barking at her. That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 10, 2023 10:52:51 GMT
He looks like he feels the need to at least push over one or more little buildings.
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Post by mordekai on Jul 10, 2023 11:08:14 GMT
We haven't had Kat and Coyote meeting yet at all. Oh I do hope that Kat sees Coyote through her "boring-o-vision" as she did to the ROTD, and just sees him as a mangy old dog barking at her. That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. Remember how Kat perceived Jeanne's lover, and how easily she freed him... she can pierce through much more than mere smoke and mirrors... However, Kat can only do that while in the Ether...
Anyways, what I would like to know is... Is Coyote fully alive and back again? Or is this some sort of temporary thing, like when the Court tried to steal Loup's power...? He said he was "very much dead..." can he resurrect just this easily? What about Loup? If Coyote leaves him... what is left of him? Is he Ysengrim again? Or just a normal New Man called Jerreck who has some memories of having been Loup? Or, do Loup keep a copy of Coyote's memories and personality still mixed with the Ysengrim parts...?
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jul 10, 2023 11:16:38 GMT
Wonder what Coyote is capable of now. After all, he did give Ysengrin his strength…
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Post by King Mir on Jul 10, 2023 12:33:24 GMT
Hmm, the comment about the shadow men made me think of something. Kat has so far made new people en masse but they are not her friends by default, she remained being "yeah yeah, whatever" when she kept getting flowers from them in the last chapter. Assuming she will at one point be dead but the collective belief of robotkind will make her a goddess, whose personality is shaped by the collective belief of the New People, can't that behaviour at one point be interpreted as her actually not caring about the New People and subsequently abandoning them for more interesting pursuits? I.e. an interpretation of her attitude similar to how Coyote's relationship to the glass eyed men is? It makes me wonder if Coyote's abandonment of the glass eyed men is a matter of gradual cosmic retcon via the collective belief of mankind. Abandoning something he made because he is bored of it is very much in Coyote's character. It was as inevitable as Coyote is Coyote, which he has always been. It is not strange that in this case his creations might be jealous of the things that distract Coyote. I think Kat is different here. Firstly because she is not of the ether and so not so easily shaped by it, and second because if Kat abandons the new people it will be with intention; Kat gave the robots agency, and it is up to them what they do with it. |
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Post by bedinsis on Jul 10, 2023 12:51:28 GMT
It was as inevitable as Coyote is Coyote, which he has always been. How do you know that? |
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Post by razgrizx on Jul 10, 2023 13:48:16 GMT
Coyote being able to jump out at any time kinda dampens: 2. The interesting philosophical question of: is Jerrek a construct / illusion that's become more real than the illusionist... who himself is unstable fusion of two ephemeral beings? The combined identity / splitting identity metamorphosis has been fascinating. But if it's mostly Coyote then it's more-or-less a puppet show. I don't see Jerrek as being different from Loup at all, I see it as Loup demonstrating other facets of himself when he can't just posture about how great he is and is trying to impress or threaten anyone. "Jerrek" made very clear to me that Loup is basically a teenager that inherited his "parents" memories since he was just born and this is where most of his "insanity" comes from and is only different from Loup in same way Renard's wolf form is different from his imp toy form. Though he is teenager god which makes him a hell of a lot more dangerous And now comes daddy Coyote to disapprove of his son relationship choices |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 10, 2023 14:14:47 GMT
That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. Remember how Kat perceived Jeanne's lover, and how easily she freed him... she can pierce through much more than mere smoke and mirrors... However, Kat can only that while in the Ether... Yes, Kat perceived him as a trapped forest elf, which he was. All the crazy 4D-labyrinth stuff that Annie saw were smoke and mirrors, again... high-level illusions placed there by Diego to make sure that the elf could not free himself, and neither could anyone do it from the outside. Kat saw through these, but she still had to rely on Annie's help to free the dude.
Rather remember how Kat perceived Ankou and Ketrak. No smoke and mirrors here. They look the same to everyone, and Kat was terrified by both of them. Plus, the psychopomp's ability to be visible or invisible to other beings at will obviously worked on Kat as well. So, there's obviously a difference between the so called smoke and mirrors, and innate abilities of Etheric beings.
Hmm, the comment about the shadow men made me think of something. Kat has so far made new people en masse but they are not her friends by default, she remained being "yeah yeah, whatever" when she kept getting flowers from them in the last chapter. Assuming she will at one point be dead but the collective belief of robotkind will make her a goddess, whose personality is shaped by the collective belief of the New People, can't that behaviour at one point be interpreted as her actually not caring about the New People and subsequently abandoning them for more interesting pursuits? I.e. an interpretation of her attitude similar to how Coyote's relationship to the glass eyed men is? It makes me wonder if Coyote's abandonment of the glass eyed men is a matter of gradual cosmic retcon via the collective belief of mankind. Abandoning something he made because he is bored of it is very much in Coyote's character. It was as inevitable as Coyote is Coyote, which he has always been. It is not strange that in this case his creations might be jealous of the things that distract Coyote. I think Kat is different here. Firstly because she is not of the ether and so not so easily shaped by it, and second because if Kat abandons the new people it will be with intention; Kat gave the robots agency, and it is up to them what they do with it. The question is, has Coyote always been that way retroactively? If in the future, the New People come to believe that the Angel abandoned them to pursue other venues, and many of them take this belief with them into the Ether, then that will be how it always has been. The only question is, will it influence our Kat we know, or will it create a deity that is separate from Kat and has all the characteristics ascribed to it by the New People's beliefs? I could imagine the latter, as it is unlikely that the belief in the deity Coyote suddenly uplifted one specific coyote to godhood. All this of course assumes that Coyote's theory is actually true. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 10, 2023 14:20:24 GMT
Coyote turns his attention to Lana. She remains smiling, even though this weird supernatural being is encircling her with his elastic form. He can tell she isn't human and asks what she is.
When she replies that they consider themselves New People, Coyote talks over her answer, revealing that he's not asking her; he's trying to figure it out. He thinks she's some sort of golem.
Jerrek/Loup steps in and says that they're the creation of a divine being, much as the Shadow Men are the creation of Coyote. He holds Lana protectively. Lana remains smiling, but Jerrek is not smiling; he certainly knows that Coyote, even this echo of him, could probably obliterate her.
Coyote reacts with surprise that there's a new god, and with rage that this new god would interfere with his plans, jumping to the conclusion that that's what's happened.
Hmm, will there be a clash of gods? Will Coyote (well, echo-Coyote) challenge Kat for supremacy? Could Kat defeat the echo of Coyote? On the one hand, she's still mortal, but on the other hand, she's often got a divine aspect, possibly a result of future New People dying and taking their belief in her into the Ether, but that's speculation. Meanwhile, on one hand, Coyote is an actual god, but on the other hand, this isn't really Coyote, just an echo of him. Coyote's power is part of Loup. Supposedly. One never knows what that guy is up to.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jul 10, 2023 15:57:43 GMT
(What would happen if you pressed that button now, Annie?) It would be funny if Annie panicked and pushed the button, because the button's set to trap Jerrek/ Loup, not Coyote. And Jerrek is clearly not the real threat here, Coyote is. Coyote being Coyote, he will find a way to turn this thing around, get Annie to stab Loup... I just haven't figured out how yet. |
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Post by ophidiophile on Jul 10, 2023 20:35:10 GMT
We haven't had Kat and Coyote meeting yet at all. Oh I do hope that Kat sees Coyote through her "boring-o-vision" as she did to the ROTD, and just sees him as a mangy old dog barking at her. That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. Kat is also literally a god, and how she sees Coyote is going to be very different from how everyone else sees him. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even recognize Coyote if we see him from Kat's pov. I'm pretty sure she can warp the ether to create her own version of the ether, and Coyote is a creature of the ether. |
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Post by ophidiophile on Jul 10, 2023 20:36:26 GMT
Coyote discovers fomo, and why nobody takes vacations anymore.
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Post by lightshade on Jul 10, 2023 23:47:05 GMT
That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. Remember how Kat perceived Jeanne's lover, and how easily she freed him... she can pierce through much more than mere smoke and mirrors... However, Kat can only do that while in the Ether...
Anyways, what I would like to know is... Is Coyote fully alive and back again? Or is this some sort of temporary thing, like when the Court tried to steal Loup's power...? He said he was "very much dead..." can he resurrect just this easily? What about Loup? If Coyote leaves him... what is left of him? Is he Ysengrim again? Or just a normal New Man called Jerreck who has some memories of having been Loup? Or, do Loup keep a copy of Coyote's memories and personality still mixed with the Ysengrim parts...?
I was wondering the same thing myself. Is Jerrek right now for all intents and purposes simply Ysengrim in the form of a New Person? Is he still a fusion of both Ysengrim and Coyote with this version of Coyote not truly being the real deal? Does Jerrek still have the power of a god or has that been taken away from him with Coyote's reemergence? Is this just an echo of Coyote or did he just break the rules as he always does by deciding to just come back to life because he wanted to? (Though imo the latter would feel a touch cheap in terms of all the storytelling leading up this point.) If so, how much power does he have? We saw him thwart the Court's attempt to take his power so he can still affect the physical world on some level and he yelled at Jerrek hard enough to blow his hair completely back but can that extend all the way up to his former "knocking little buildings over" level of power? He might be throwing a temper tantrum right now because there's little else he can do or this may just be him revving up to a point where he goes completely berserk. Since Loup has been shown to absorb the Ysengrim portion of him by swallowing him up after he didn't want him to talk to Annie anymore, it'd be funny if Jerrek solved this simply by eating Coyote again. |
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