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Post by csj on Jul 11, 2023 0:21:38 GMT
Since Loup has been shown to absorb the Ysengrim portion of him by swallowing him up after he didn't want him to talk to Annie anymore, it'd be funny if Jerrek solved this simply by eating Coyote again. 'That's it, back in the hole' |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jul 11, 2023 5:43:15 GMT
We haven't had Kat and Coyote meeting yet at all. Oh I do hope that Kat sees Coyote through her "boring-o-vision" as she did to the ROTD, and just sees him as a mangy old dog barking at her. That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. You know, I should probably just be agreeing with you right now wholeheartedly, since debunking wild misinterpretations of Kat's powers is a slight passion of mine.
Except...now I can't help but wonder if this actually WOULD work, simply because deep down, perhaps uniquely among etheric beings, Coyote actually SEES HIMSELF to be a bunch of " smoke and mirrors" placed over " a mangy dog, scavenging in the desert for scraps"?! Like, does it technically count as an illusion for the purposes of Kat's powers if the omnipotent god who created it is so existentially f*cked in the head he considers it to basically be an illusion?! Like a psychosomatic symptom, only for magic... I've always assumed that the INTENT of the magic in question is what matters when deciding if Kat would perceive it differently from most, so if Coyote THINKS it is...but then...that's not really...
Ok, this is all making my head hurt, so I'm just going to stop thinking in circles about this nonsense. Hopefully this is all irrelevant, and Kat will just percieve Coyote just like everyone else does when they finally meet. If she doesn't...well...I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but it won't be pretty. Oh dear...
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Post by blahzor on Jul 11, 2023 7:47:42 GMT
The real problem of how Kat might see Coyote is that his level of "magic" is vastly greater than everyone else's even using the same powers. He sees deeper the ether than others like Annie sometimes can see deeper in seeing Smitty's strings
How many levels does her sight pierce
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Post by gpvos on Jul 11, 2023 8:39:07 GMT
I remember that Kat was explicitly and strictly forbidden to enter the Forest (more so than others), and I thought there was some discussion with several people thinking this was to make sure she didn't meet Coyote. But I can't find the reference anymore.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 11, 2023 9:40:27 GMT
I remember that Kat was explicitly and strictly forbidden to enter the Forest (more so than others), and I thought there was some discussion with several people thinking this was to make sure she didn't meet Coyote. But I can't find the reference anymore. It was formsprung that Kat's parents or the Court wouldn't allow her to go to Gillite and thus meet Coyote, spirits, or presumably other beings etheric. The danger is probably the reason the Donlans wouldn't let her go, they know firsthand about shadow people and bound dogs; that may be the primary reason the Court wouldn't let it happen either but they probably also wanted to keep her on the straight and narrow path. From their point of view it's better to keep her focused on the Court's paradigm and not wandering into heretical shortcuts with etheric tech. |
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Post by gpvos on Jul 11, 2023 13:39:49 GMT
It's not just the New People believing in Kat. Loup believing in Kat could give her enormous etheric powers.
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Post by alevice on Jul 11, 2023 22:14:46 GMT
That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. You know, I should probably just be agreeing with you right now wholeheartedly, since debunking wild misinterpretations of Kat's powers is a slight passion of mine.
Except...now I can't help but wonder if this actually WOULD work, simply because deep down, perhaps uniquely among etheric beings, Coyote actually SEES HIMSELF to be a bunch of " smoke and mirrors" placed over " a mangy dog, scavenging in the desert for scraps"?! Like, does it technically count as an illusion for the purposes of Kat's powers if the omnipotent god who created it is so existentially f*cked in the head he considers it to basically be an illusion?! Like a psychosomatic symptom, only for magic... I've always assumed that the INTENT of the magic in question is what matters when deciding if Kat would perceive it differently from most, so if Coyote THINKS it is...but then...that's not really...
Ok, this is all making my head hurt, so I'm just going to stop thinking in circles about this nonsense. Hopefully this is all irrelevant, and Kat will just percieve Coyote just like everyone else does when they finally meet. If she doesn't...well...I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but it won't be pretty. Oh dear...
This one may be hard. Firstly, Its hard to say if Coyote depiction as a boring fox was merely to illustrate the nature of the beliefs that the ether digests to manifest creature slike coyote or if coyote was uplifted. Secondly, Kat can only cut through ethereal enhanced depictions. Like the guard that looked like Jeannes boyfriend was something Annie could only see and likely not the real elf guy, since the real one was immobile. Same with ROTD. However, Kat can see all the psychopomps as they actually look, since they likely are all made of pure ether. Same with Loup. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 12, 2023 1:42:45 GMT
What will happen when/if Kat meets Coyote has been one of the longest-running topics for speculation on the forum. I'm not entirely sure what Kat will see when she looks at Coyote and vice versa. Since Coyote is a god I think she'll see him as he wishes to be at that moment, and all things held equal that probably means his default bendy no-shadow-casting iconic coyote form. She'll probably say hello while thinking "huh, well whatever." Coyote probably won't think much of Kat at first glance either since he probably won't see anything special about her right away. The conversation, on the other hand, should be much more interesting. I think she will find talking with him to be profoundly disturbing. Yes, Kat's heard stories about him from Antimony but I don't think that will help. Kat's generally helpful, polite and nice, whereas Coyote is manipulative, cunning, and canonically a dick. She's good at studying, I'm not sure Coyote is currently literate since unless he's in disguise he wouldn't need to read. He's manipulated and harmed a number of people she knows, including her bff. Kat's a technophile and very skilled, Coyote is disinterested in technology and just knows whatever he wants do know and does whatever he wants to do. He's the ethereal tenet incarnate, a walking, talking "it just works because it does so f*ck you." I think having to interact with him will over time negate her standard "huh, well whatever" coping mechanism... and it probably won't take long to make her mad. Finally, Coyote doesn't like people who are smarter than him and he really doesn't like people who mess with his plans. Kat is probably both of those things, though to be fair most of the elements of Coyote's mixed-media composition are still there, she's just accidentally flaked the gold leaf from its frame (by introducing Lana to the mix and ruining the whole tragic romance aspect). By the way, Coyote can take back his powers whenever he wants. He can probably undeaden himself from his current temporary state too, if he wants. His plan could probably still be made to work if he can think of the right things to say to set off "Loup." However, he might be too pissed off at how inelegant the plan is looking right now. |
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Post by blahzor on Jul 12, 2023 4:56:41 GMT
What if since Coyote claims he doesn't exist. Kat won't actually hear him talk just see him as he chooses to present himself.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 12, 2023 7:11:53 GMT
What if since Coyote claims he doesn't exist. Kat won't actually hear him talk just see him as he chooses to present himself. It depends on his mood at the moment but if the meeting happens I feel he's not going to be thinking much about thought experiments. It's tough to doubt your own existence when you're going somewhere intent on messing up someone for messing with you... |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 12, 2023 11:05:01 GMT
That won't happen, simply because Coyote isn't a mangy old dog in some costume. He is literally a god, there are no smokes and mirrors like in the ROTD. You know, I should probably just be agreeing with you right now wholeheartedly, since debunking wild misinterpretations of Kat's powers is a slight passion of mine.
Except...now I can't help but wonder if this actually WOULD work, simply because deep down, perhaps uniquely among etheric beings, Coyote actually SEES HIMSELF to be a bunch of " smoke and mirrors" placed over " a mangy dog, scavenging in the desert for scraps"?! Like, does it technically count as an illusion for the purposes of Kat's powers if the omnipotent god who created it is so existentially f*cked in the head he considers it to basically be an illusion?! Like a psychosomatic symptom, only for magic... I've always assumed that the INTENT of the magic in question is what matters when deciding if Kat would perceive it differently from most, so if Coyote THINKS it is...but then...that's not really...
Ok, this is all making my head hurt, so I'm just going to stop thinking in circles about this nonsense. Hopefully this is all irrelevant, and Kat will just percieve Coyote just like everyone else does when they finally meet. If she doesn't...well...I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but it won't be pretty. Oh dear...
It's a nice wildspec, but he seems to be just as much convinced that he is an all-powerful God who can do, know and be everything he wants. BECAUSE HE IS COYOTE!
However, I have another, rational argument. Loup is less powerful than Coyote, and Kat could not even see through his Jerrek disguise. So I find it very unlikely that she, right now, would perceive Coyote any differently than he wants her to.
It's not just the New People believing in Kat. Loup believing in Kat could give her enormous etheric powers. If he dies and is taken into the Ether.
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Post by maxptc on Jul 14, 2023 3:21:13 GMT
If he dies and is taken into the Ether. I dunno about that, I have been wondering recently if Loup/Coyote or any other god level etheric creature could give someone powers or traits just by sincerely believing they have them, or without the other person consenting (like Rey and Ysengrin). Like could Coyote have given Rey the body snatching power if Rey hadn't wanted it? Would he be able to do it without the other person being present or retroactively? I suspect he can but didn't because whats the fun in that/didn't fit his super confusing plan. Loup did just start believing Kat is a God and doesn't have Coyote's morality... Eh, definitely feels very wild specish. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 14, 2023 14:10:11 GMT
If he dies and is taken into the Ether. I dunno about that, I have been wondering recently if Loup/Coyote or any other god level etheric creature could give someone powers or traits just by sincerely believing they have them, or without the other person consenting (like Rey and Ysengrin). Like could Coyote have given Rey the body snatching power if Rey hadn't wanted it? Would he be able to do it without the other person being present or retroactively? I suspect he can but didn't because whats the fun in that/didn't fit his super confusing plan. Loup did just start believing Kat is a God and doesn't have Coyote's morality... Eh, definitely feels very wild specish. The giving away of powers definitely seems to have limitations, considering every time one was given away it immediately gained a drawback. And Coyote said Renard had refused to get any powers from Coyote for years. Hmm... You know, it's probably less important if Coyote could just give a non-consenting being one of his powers, because he could always just force them to accept the "gift" by some kind of blackmail. Take it or I'll turn all your friends inside out. Yeah, but both ways are probably neither funny nor fitting into his plans. |
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