|
|
Post by drmemory on May 24, 2023 4:37:19 GMT
Some might take the opportunity to just stab the dude in the cage, finishing Coyote's plan. Obviously, Annie isn't going to do that.
So I guess we're in for a week or so of drama, wherein the Scooby gang overcome their skepticism and decide to trust Loup. And let him out.
Maybe he can shift Renard's body or something - make a copy or retrieve it from time or whatever hand-waving ether thing is needed. That would go a long way to getting him some credibility.
And yes, this is all part of Coyote's plan. I'm just not quite sure whether Loup has learned what he was supposed to learn. Depends on what Coyote wanted him to learn, and more importantly, WHY.
|
|
|
|
Post by blahzor on May 24, 2023 4:58:57 GMT
Some might take the opportunity to just stab the dude in the cage, finishing Coyote's plan. Obviously, Annie isn't going to do that. So I guess we're in for a week or so of drama, wherein the Scooby gang overcome their skepticism and decide to trust Loup. And let him out. Maybe he can shift Renard's body or something - make a copy or retrieve it from time or whatever hand-waving ether thing is needed. That would go a long way to getting him some credibility. And yes, this is all part of Coyote's plan. I'm just not quite sure whether Loup has learned what he was supposed to learn. Depends on what Coyote wanted him to learn, and more importantly, WHY. Timeshift Rey's body back brings Coyote back as he was hiding as Rey's tail. |
|
|
|
Post by maxptc on May 24, 2023 5:33:54 GMT
Some might take the opportunity to just stab the dude in the cage, finishing Coyote's plan. Obviously, Annie isn't going to do that. So I guess we're in for a week or so of drama, wherein the Scooby gang overcome their skepticism and decide to trust Loup. And let him out. Maybe he can shift Renard's body or something - make a copy or retrieve it from time or whatever hand-waving ether thing is needed. That would go a long way to getting him some credibility. And yes, this is all part of Coyote's plan. I'm just not quite sure whether Loup has learned what he was supposed to learn. Depends on what Coyote wanted him to learn, and more importantly, WHY. Timeshift Rey's body back brings Coyote back as he was hiding as Rey's tail. Loup is given the tooth peacefully by Annie. It's a memory that reveals the "last" real memory is hidden in Reys tail. After retrieving that memory, it to reveals another memory is hidden, this time being the hand cutting band Annie wore during her Forrest summer. That band reveals Ysengrins robes are a memory. This goes on until either the entire universe is a memory of Coyete, or until Coyete lasts hidden memory reveals his plan was to share his love of scavenger hunts. We all discuss how its a metaphor about the hollow search for deeper meaning in childish hobbies. |
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on May 24, 2023 10:27:13 GMT
Wonder what would happen if the the tooth WAS thrown into the star ocean… That's an interesting one. Would it just sever the connection completely? Cause the creation of Coyoteworld? |
|
|
|
Post by blahzor on May 24, 2023 11:11:13 GMT
Wonder what would happen if the the tooth WAS thrown into the star ocean… That's an interesting one. Would it just sever the connection completely? Cause the creation of Coyoteworld? Use the tooth to cut out the ocean |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on May 24, 2023 16:21:29 GMT
That's an interesting one. Would it just sever the connection completely? Cause the creation of Coyoteworld? Use the tooth to cut out the ocean That you, Moses? And actually I'm not sure that stealing Ysengrins memories was a vile type manipulation. He was asking him the same question over and over again and the answer was the same every time. Maybe he was expecting some kind of a change and when he was done waiting he decided that Ysengrin needs a push towards it. For better or worse. Those are not the only memories Coyote had taken. For example he also took the memory of Ysengrin attacking Annie in "The Great Secret", the memory aof the "red guy" trying to cross the river and getting bisected by Jeanne, and very likely the memory of how Ysengrin buried the destroyed Tic-Toc. Ysengrin himself said his memory was "full of holes", and that it wasn't the first time he learned about having "misbehaved" in some way which he could not recall. |
|
|
|
Post by sosleepy on May 24, 2023 19:23:44 GMT
And actually I'm not sure that stealing Ysengrins memories was a vile type manipulation. He was asking him the same question over and over again and the answer was the same every time. Maybe he was expecting some kind of a change and when he was done waiting he decided that Ysengrin needs a push towards it. For better or worse. Those are not the only memories Coyote had taken. For example he also took the memory of Ysengrin attacking Annie in "The Great Secret", the memory aof the "red guy" trying to cross the river and getting bisected by Jeanne, and very likely the memory of how Ysengrin burying the destroyed Tic-Toc. Ysengrin himself said his memory was "full of holes", and that it wasn't the first time he learned about having "misbehaved" in some way which he could not recall. So Coyote's been literally purposefully driving him insane, eh?(you can call it gaslighting i guess?) As much as i want to believe in a "mischievous and goofy forest god" I can also believe he's capable of doing exactly so. Either just for fun or to keep Ysengrin as an obedient pet of his. But I've had a feeling that Ysengrin became Coyote's servant of his own volition though. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on May 25, 2023 0:07:20 GMT
I think Coyote probably teased and tricked Ysengrin sometimes just for fun but his main concern was to keep Ysengrin stressed and in a particular frame of mind, stuck on the very brink of insanity, where he'd be a useful part of Coyote's plan. If Ysengrin and Surma had more time to interact before Surma and the Court made their move on Renard (and Renard made a move of his own in response) then Coyote's plan might have launched back then and I think the result would've been much more bleak. The same basic scenario would have played out; Surma would've received The Tooth, Coyote would've given Ysengrin his powers, "Loup" would have attacked the Court. There wouldn't be any Noomans, though, and I'm not sure Donald would have had sufficient advance warning and the know-how to make the shield. There could have been significant loss of life in the Court, but afterwards "Loup" would've still infiltrated the ruins. I think he would've destroyed Jeanne; Jeanne's lover would have remained trapped forever. Surma and Anja would've tried to trap him along with Eglamore and Sivo, potentially with Renard as an ally but a much less trustworthy one. As far as what the end of the comic would've been... the comic's about growing up, youthful misunderstandings, hard lessons and emotional growth. I think what would've happened is that "Loup" would allow Surma to kill him after he realized that the things he'd done had made it impossible to ever have the kinds of relationships he wanted with the people he wanted to be with. After that he would be dead. There'd be no more Ysengrin. Antimony, in contrast, has been delving deeper into the mysteries of the Court and taking things farther. There's a possibility that she won't give up on Ysengrin, and possibly Jerrek, and use The Tooth to cut them free before "Loup" dies (and Coyote comes back, probably). I'm not saying this will be a happy ending, but it will be better than it could've been. |
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on May 25, 2023 10:36:57 GMT
That would surprise me way more then everything that has happened being a very intentional long term plot of Coyote. Maybe he didn't mean death literally, but means for Loup to straight up cease existing. Not that I think that, just that it would be more likely, in my veiw. It just feels like a very generous read of Coyete, who is as close to a big bad as this comic has. As pyradonis has said, Coyote is the one responsible for all this. Because of how fun Coyete was and because we didnt(dont?) have the full picture of his plot, it's easy to forget that everything Loup has done is a direct result of Coyetes master plan. He would be responsible even if he hadn't been long term planting totems and directly pulling the strings with memory related abuse. Now that I'm thinking on it, every act of kindness by Coyete has also furthered his plot. I bet they were manipulations above anything else. If it turns out Coyete plan was just to let Loup do whatever, I'll be very disappointed. This is also kind of a reply to your other post, just not directly. And actually I'm not sure that stealing Ysengrins memories was a vile type manipulation. Except it was explicitly framed as an abusive act, done without consent. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on May 25, 2023 11:52:45 GMT
Those are not the only memories Coyote had taken. For example he also took the memory of Ysengrin attacking Annie in "The Great Secret", the memory aof the "red guy" trying to cross the river and getting bisected by Jeanne, and very likely the memory of how Ysengrin burying the destroyed Tic-Toc. Ysengrin himself said his memory was "full of holes", and that it wasn't the first time he learned about having "misbehaved" in some way which he could not recall.
So Coyote's been literally purposefully driving him insane, eh?(you can call it gaslighting i guess?) As much as i want to believe in a "mischievous and goofy forest god" I can also believe he's capable of doing exactly so. Either just for fun or to keep Ysengrin as an obedient pet of his. But I've had a feeling that Ysengrin became Coyote's servant of his own volition though. Yes. As imaginaryfriend linked to in his latest post, Jones even literally stated that Ysengrin was growing closer to the brink of insanity. And a lot of the craziness she observed during that meeting was manipulated by Coyote. As far as if Ysengrin became Coyote's servant by his own volition... I'm not sure. When Annie asked Ysengrin about that, the latter spoke about Coyote giving his life purpose like a newly religious human, but Annie was not convinced. Then there's the "Coyote" side comic. It is unclear what in this comic is real and what is a metaphor, but it shows Ysengrin doing what Coyote demanded after having been intimidated by the latter's power, and was last shown following Coyote without question after the latter had brutally disciplined him. |
|
|
|
Post by sosleepy on May 25, 2023 18:04:23 GMT
And actually I'm not sure that stealing Ysengrins memories was a vile type manipulation. Except it was explicitly framed as an abusive act, done without consent. Touché~ |
|
|
|
Post by sosleepy on May 25, 2023 18:14:02 GMT
So Coyote's been literally purposefully driving him insane, eh?(you can call it gaslighting i guess?) As much as i want to believe in a "mischievous and goofy forest god" I can also believe he's capable of doing exactly so. Either just for fun or to keep Ysengrin as an obedient pet of his. But I've had a feeling that Ysengrin became Coyote's servant of his own volition though. Yes. As imaginaryfriend liked to in his latest post, Jones even literally stated that Ysengrin was growing closer to the brink of insanity. And a lot of the craziness she observed during that meeting was manipulated by Coyote. As far as if Ysengrin became Coyote's servant by his own volition... I'm not sure. When Annie asked Ysengrin about that, the latter spoke about Coyote giving his life purpose like a newly religious human, but Annie was not convinced. Then there's the "Coyote" side comic. It is unclear what in this comic is real and what is a metaphor, but it shows Ysengrin doing what Coyote demanded after having been intimidated by the latter's power, and was last shown following Coyote without question after the latter had brutally disciplined him. "Given his life purpose" huh. Sounds almost like brainwashing aftermath. Though, i believe Ysengrin could accept a position of servant since he clearly respected Coyote's power (but not Coyote himself). |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on May 25, 2023 20:00:43 GMT
Just for context, the page where Ysengrin says that his love for Coyote is deeper than his hate is immediately followed by another page where Ysengrin admits that he handles his anger poorly at times and sees it as a creature/demon with which he must fight/separate from himself. Right after that we learn that Antimony followed his example when she used her blinker stone to separate herself from her feelings and her fire. She later calls that " advice" which prompts Ysengrin to observe that she's cut out a vital part of herself. He then breaks her blinker stone so that she can't hide from herself, as he puts it. Antimony later admits that she hurt the people around her by trying to live like that. However, I can't recall a single instance in the comic where Ysengrin, "Loup" or Jerrek actually applied what happened with Antimony to himself/themselves. Rather, the contrary. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on May 27, 2023 5:34:16 GMT
So Coyote's been literally purposefully driving him insane, eh?(you can call it gaslighting i guess?) As much as i want to believe in a "mischievous and goofy forest god" I can also believe he's capable of doing exactly so. Either just for fun or to keep Ysengrin as an obedient pet of his. But I've had a feeling that Ysengrin became Coyote's servant of his own volition though. Yes. As imaginaryfriend linked to in his latest post, Jones even literally stated that Ysengrin was growing closer to the brink of insanity. And a lot of the craziness she observed during that meeting was manipulated by Coyote. As far as if Ysengrin became Coyote's servant by his own volition... I'm not sure. When Annie asked Ysengrin about that, the latter spoke about Coyote giving his life purpose like a newly religious human, but Annie was not convinced. Then there's the "Coyote" side comic. It is unclear what in this comic is real and what is a metaphor, but it shows Ysengrin doing what Coyote demanded after having been intimidated by the latter's power, and was last shown following Coyote without question after the latter had brutally disciplined him. I always assumed the side comic was canon, because of the ear thing. Obviously part of it is metaphorical though. Same for the other side comics.
Actually the Coyote one is the only one that seems less than entirely literal. The others are just stories about things that happened. My guess would be that the Coyote side comic is told from the point of view of Coyote, who likes to spice things up.  Or maybe it's as literal as Annie's Summer Vacation, and that's just how the world looks to Coyote and the other etheric critters. |
|
|
|
Post by blahzor on May 27, 2023 8:59:56 GMT
didn't tom imply every side story is cannon including city face
|
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on May 27, 2023 20:57:22 GMT
Another idea of what Loup may be planning to do to prove his contrition - reanimate the remaining buried robots. This theory is based on him caring more about what Lana thinks of him than what anyone else thinks of him. Also, there was that preview picture showing one rising from its grave... I was actually thinking of him trying to repair the forest partially because of where they are, inside the dig site, but the more I think about it, I think he'd want to show off for his girlfriend more than he'd want to convince Renard, whom I'm pretty sure he still hates. But really, a forest-esque scheme to animate the missing robots would fit that location even better, make him look good for his girlfriend, and either please or at least not displease everyone else. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on May 27, 2023 20:58:16 GMT
didn't tom imply every side story is cannon including city face Don't know. I only monitor the comics, not the interviews and such. I'm sure someone reading this knows and can provide a reference if needed. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on May 28, 2023 15:26:28 GMT
didn't tom imply every side story is canon including city face I'm pretty sure he said that at some point but I can't find it. He explicitly confirmed the side arcs in Q2T#2 and the bonus pages. As far as I know there's only two exceptions, the guest comics and the summer holiday graphic. Other than those two things everything that's in the comics is in the comics. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on May 29, 2023 17:07:42 GMT
Another idea of what Loup may be planning to do to prove his contrition - reanimate the remaining buried robots. This theory is based on him caring more about what Lana thinks of him than what anyone else thinks of him. Also, there was that preview picture showing one rising from its grave... I was actually thinking of him trying to repair the forest partially because of where they are, inside the dig site, but the more I think about it, I think he'd want to show off for his girlfriend more than he'd want to convince Renard, whom I'm pretty sure he still hates. But really, a forest-esque scheme to animate the missing robots would fit that location even better, make him look good for his girlfriend, and either please or at least not displease everyone else. Ahem. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on May 29, 2023 19:36:54 GMT
Yes. As imaginaryfriend linked to in his latest post, Jones even literally stated that Ysengrin was growing closer to the brink of insanity. And a lot of the craziness she observed during that meeting was manipulated by Coyote. As far as if Ysengrin became Coyote's servant by his own volition... I'm not sure. When Annie asked Ysengrin about that, the latter spoke about Coyote giving his life purpose like a newly religious human, but Annie was not convinced. Then there's the "Coyote" side comic. It is unclear what in this comic is real and what is a metaphor, but it shows Ysengrin doing what Coyote demanded after having been intimidated by the latter's power, and was last shown following Coyote without question after the latter had brutally disciplined him. I always assumed the side comic was canon, because of the ear thing. Obviously part of it is metaphorical though. Same for the other side comics. Oh yes, I didn't mean to imply the comic isn't canon. Just that it's unclear how much of it's content is showing what literally happened, and which parts are depicted metaphorically, or, as suggested, by an unreliable narrator (most likely Coyote himself). |
|
Or maybe it's as literal as Annie's Summer Vacation, and that's just how the world looks to Coyote and the other etheric critters.