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Post by Timberwere on Feb 15, 2023 8:11:24 GMT
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Post by aline on Feb 15, 2023 8:17:40 GMT
Oh, Paz.
I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it.
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Post by Igniz on Feb 15, 2023 8:18:49 GMT
Kat is so excited that she can't keep still.  And is either completely oblivious to Paz and Annie's expressions, or pretending to not notice them.   |
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Post by basser on Feb 15, 2023 8:25:41 GMT
Ugh whatever, Paz. Maybe have some dang self-respect and don't go along with stuff you don't wanna do.
Kat still could've done this with a mirror. Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, just made it a wearable instead. Or put it in her arm. Basically I think Kat just wanted to test the limits of her friend and girlfriend's doormat tendencies.
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Post by madjack on Feb 15, 2023 8:30:35 GMT
Oh. So this isn't about rivalry, it's about her knowing whatever happens now, she's going to lose the Kat she loves to a change she can't stop whether she supports Kat through it or not.
She doesn't want a transhuman robogoddess, she just wants the nice dorky genius girl back.
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Post by agasa on Feb 15, 2023 8:49:33 GMT
I just want to cry and give her a hug now. Poor Paz.
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Post by arf on Feb 15, 2023 8:58:00 GMT
"Okay. Just a little pinprick There'll be no hahaha...but you may feel a little sick." "Love is a butterfly, held in the palm of your hand. Let go your love so that it can return to you. If it doesn't, then it never was." |
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Post by ghostiet on Feb 15, 2023 9:19:54 GMT
this is supremely fucked up and feels less like Kat needing actual help with the thing and just testing out her God complex, with her friend and girlfriend as the subjects
I know it's not malicious at all but hoooly hell, this is incredibly uncomfortable
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Post by lightshade on Feb 15, 2023 9:21:13 GMT
Oh. So this isn't about rivalry, it's about her knowing whatever happens now, she's going to lose the Kat she loves to a change she can't stop whether she supports Kat through it or not. She doesn't want a transhuman robogoddess, she just wants the nice dorky genius girl back. My thoughts exactly. Though I wish she'd at least TELL HER this instead of letting Kat's mania steamroll over everything. Sure, it may not have done any good, especially since Kat stopped being able to hear the word "no" in regards to her work ages ago, but at least she could have said she tried. That's the main problem here. Kat has gotten so used to doing whatever she wants and being praised for it that she refuses to put any limitations on herself and won't allow anyone else to do so either. When was the last time we saw her parents, Annie, or Paz telling her to stop or at least tone it down a little? Reynard tried and all that did was bruise her delicate little feelings for the approximately 2.2 seconds it would have taken to type out a  on the keyboard before she just bounced back and brushed off his concerns as usual. |
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Post by lisanela on Feb 15, 2023 9:49:05 GMT
I find the ending of the previous chapter and this one incredibly strange in terms of pace and mood? No one seems to talk to each other properly or be able to stop very stopable events, which is very much like a nightmare. I don't think Kat wanting to control her computer with her brain is that strange in the context of Gunnerkrigg - etheric users like Annie enter the Magical Matrix daily and talk with gods all the time. Non etheric users can get tattoos to gain superpowers or access etheric based technology (and is that even safe?). It's the way Kat is written and drawn here that freaks me out. I feel I'm seeing Zimmie's nightmare rather than reality.
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Post by Isildur on Feb 15, 2023 10:26:46 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. The thing is, I don't see how she can be as sure as us that it's such a terrible moment. Unless someone has made her aware of something more. Something she couldn't share with Kat or Annie. There are a couple of other possibilities of what that tear means: 1. She's about to sabotage this for Kat's own good, somehow, and knows that Kat will never trust her again. 2. She has corrupted the chip somehow or will swap in an alternative chip (using something she was supplied), under terrible coercion (maybe even mind-control). Maybe the court? Maybe the Seraphim? Whoever it is could have threatened to kill or do something very bad to Kat. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 15, 2023 10:59:30 GMT
I find the ending of the previous chapter and this one incredibly strange in terms of pace and mood? No one seems to talk to each other properly or be able to stop very stopable events, which is very much like a nightmare. I don't think Kat wanting to control her computer with her brain is that strange in the context of Gunnerkrigg - etheric users like Annie enter the Magical Matrix daily and talk with gods all the time. Non etheric users can get tattoos to gain superpowers or access etheric based technology (and is that even safe?). It's the way Kat is written and drawn here that freaks me out. I feel I'm seeing Zimmie's nightmare rather than reality. There is indeed something quite a bit otherworldly and uneasy about the way this scene has been playing out. Like something from a Tarkovsky film, where a shot of otherwise tame activities are imbued with dread. To aid in this feeling, this scene was preceded by a broad narration of subsequent events rather than a ground level depiction, leaving it unmoored from time and space. |
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Post by csj on Feb 15, 2023 11:29:27 GMT
'AITA for being upset that my gf wants to talk to robots instead of me'
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Post by netherdan on Feb 15, 2023 12:14:43 GMT
Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, (...) Yet. |
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Post by aline on Feb 15, 2023 12:19:24 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. The thing is, I don't see how she can be as sure as us that it's such a terrible moment. Unless someone has made her aware of something more. Something she couldn't share with Kat or Annie. There are a couple of other possibilities of what that tear means: 1. She's about to sabotage this for Kat's own good, somehow, and knows that Kat will never trust her again. 2. She has corrupted the chip somehow or will swap in an alternative chip (using something she was supplied), under terrible coercion (maybe even mind-control). Maybe the court? Maybe the Seraphim? Whoever it is could have threatened to kill or do something very bad to Kat. I have wondered too if she knows something we don't. All we have at this point is this moment on the boat when she saw the the "angel" version of Kat in the etheric smoke. Maybe it's enough of a premonition, and while she isn't sure she has this strong gut feeling that this is where Kat is headed. We can't rule out that she is playing a double game for some reason. For now however I lean more on the first. I think she has a bad, bad feeling about this even though she's not completely sure what is going on, and that's why she's crying. Also, this quote from another thread: It's strange but Kat reminds me of that puppy from "Traveller" comic. The one who swam away in to the ocean. He felt no fear but was entranced by the sea. He was bound only to crawl on the ground, but in the sea he was truly free i guess. I think Kat marches into unknown the same way but unlike the doggo she's still looking back and tries not to move too far away from the ones close to her. I wonder if Paz feels that connection between those moments too. Even though Kat's ocean isn't something she can understand as well as the danger of the actual ocean to her puppy. |
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Post by yellowb on Feb 15, 2023 12:29:01 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. The thing is, I don't see how she can be as sure as us that it's such a terrible moment. Unless someone has made her aware of something more. Something she couldn't share with Kat or Annie. Kat is acting rather manically, and Paz has seen Kat's etheric robo-goddess form. Paz is also not quite satisfied it's safe in the first place. She should communicate this to Kat of course, but there has been so much bad communication in this comic that this is almost to be expected. Those sure are some... wild-specish interpretations alright. |
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Post by todd on Feb 15, 2023 12:35:28 GMT
I find the ending of the previous chapter and this one incredibly strange in terms of pace and mood? No one seems to talk to each other properly or be able to stop very stopable events, which is very much like a nightmare. I don't think Kat wanting to control her computer with her brain is that strange in the context of Gunnerkrigg - etheric users like Annie enter the Magical Matrix daily and talk with gods all the time. Non etheric users can get tattoos to gain superpowers or access etheric based technology (and is that even safe?). It's the way Kat is written and drawn here that freaks me out. I feel I'm seeing Zimmie's nightmare rather than reality. If this is all just a hallucination of Zimmy's, it's being drawn out extra-long to reach into the next chapter - and all the more troubling in light of "it was all just a dream" being one of the worst cop-outs in writing. |
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Post by philman on Feb 15, 2023 12:40:30 GMT
Oh. So this isn't about rivalry, it's about her knowing whatever happens now, she's going to lose the Kat she loves to a change she can't stop whether she supports Kat through it or not. She doesn't want a transhuman robogoddess, she just wants the nice dorky genius girl back. This was my interpretation too. Paz wants to help the person she loves, even though she knows it will mean losing her forever. Paz has said very little this chapter, pretty much all the talking has been from Kat, with Annie throwing a few words of caution, and all Paz has really said is asking if it is safe, and confirming that it is possible. Back at the very start of the chapter we saw Annie warn Kat about Zimmy's prediction, and Paz, not knowing Zimmy, asking "who could hate you Kat?" in a joking way. Perhaps now that she is seeing Kat's plans she is realising exactly why people could, and likely will, fear her after this. Perhaps she is starting to become afraid of Kat herself. Saying that, as both Annie and Paz are so clearly uncomfortable with this, at least one of them should be speaking up |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 15, 2023 13:32:45 GMT
I find the ending of the previous chapter and this one incredibly strange in terms of pace and mood? No one seems to talk to each other properly or be able to stop very stopable events, which is very much like a nightmare. I don't think Kat wanting to control her computer with her brain is that strange in the context of Gunnerkrigg - etheric users like Annie enter the Magical Matrix daily and talk with gods all the time. Non etheric users can get tattoos to gain superpowers or access etheric based technology (and is that even safe?). It's the way Kat is written and drawn here that freaks me out. I feel I'm seeing Zimmie's nightmare rather than reality. Exactly! My feelings as well. It's just going on like a nightmare in which one is trapped in one's body which goes along with the story and everything just... happens with no possibility to influence anything.
Where's the Annie who was brave enough to stand up to a mad God even after he had shown his incredible destructive power?
Still hoping that Annie and Paz actually talked to each other and have some kind of a secret plan.
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Post by Rasselas on Feb 15, 2023 13:41:48 GMT
There is indeed something quite a bit otherworldly and uneasy about the way this scene has been playing out. Like something from a Tarkovsky film, where a shot of otherwise tame activities are imbued with dread. To aid in this feeling, this scene was preceded by a broad narration of subsequent events rather than a ground level depiction, leaving it unmoored from time and space. I feel this may be by design. As if we're watching a post-mortem of tragedy, the inevitable hurtling into catastrophe. Is it stoppable, though? If Annie and Paz don't help, Kat will find another way and they'll fall out, not having helped Kat explore something she really wants. But I want to see them at least *try* to dissuade her, and hear Kat's response to it. Otherwise, the move is so hurtful that Paz is crying, yet she's not saying anything, that doesn't feel logical. We'll see how Kat reacts to the tears, and how it all unfolds. But after Annie's experience with Zimmy in the previous chapter, I would've thought Kat would be more cautious and concerned. "My actions will kill Zimmy?" I don't think you can just dismiss that so easily. Edit: Ugh, actually this is making me think on the concept of fate in the comic. We know Annie was fated to die from her fall off the bridge. Kat changed that fate, and she more firmly interjected herself as a Fate-meddler with the Norns. With Zimmy and Paz seeing the robo-god-version of Kat, does that mean she's already fated to become that, and there is no stopping it however they might object or whatever they try to do? I don't know. |
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Post by Corvo on Feb 15, 2023 13:48:32 GMT
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Post by crater on Feb 15, 2023 14:14:44 GMT
Thanks Tom for making a parable about the dangers of implanting homemade microprocessors into your neck. It will come in handy for my children.
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Post by najmniejszy on Feb 15, 2023 14:30:56 GMT
What is Paz crying about? Girls, if your partner does not support you in your transhumanist experiments into surpassing the limitations of flesh, dump them ASAP, they don't deserve you
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Post by aline on Feb 15, 2023 15:04:39 GMT
But I want to see them at least *try* to dissuade her, and hear Kat's response to it. Otherwise, the move is so hurtful that Paz is crying, yet she's not saying anything, that doesn't feel logical. I feel so too, from a logical pont of view. But there is also a feeling of inevitability to it. And given her experience seeing Kat in all her angelic glory, maybe Paz is just convinced there is nothing she can do. Maybe there's something else and she just can't speak up. I don't know. The scene is really weird but even though no one is saying much, I don't feel like any arguments could prevent what is happening. Does it make sense? Not entirely. But I think the scene works because of how heavy and absolutely dreadful it is. |
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Post by bicarbonat on Feb 15, 2023 15:10:06 GMT
Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, (...) Yet. Ohhhh, the spirit of Cronenberg is upon us. |
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Post by silicondream on Feb 15, 2023 15:23:01 GMT
Oh. So this isn't about rivalry, it's about her knowing whatever happens now, she's going to lose the Kat she loves to a change she can't stop whether she supports Kat through it or not. Is there a reason to think Kat's about to lose her humanity irrevocably? Annie's gone through all kinds of transmutations and powerups; she's still Annie. I'm hopeful that the mecha-goddess thing will simply end up being another aspect of Kat and another tool in her kit. After all, both the Norns and Gamma foresaw that she's on the right path. Which is not to say that Kat won't stumble along the way; she's certainly not making great decisions right now. But in the comic to date, the kids usually learn from their bad decisions rather than being destroyed by them. It's also possible that she doesn't want a revolutionary. Paz has strong social connections with the non-etheric Court students, her family benefits from Court charity, and she's defended Court policies more passionately than any other student I can recall. Her relationship with Kat has only survived this long because a) Paz compartmentalizes extremely well and b) Kat doesn't tell her about the really subversive stuff. But now Kat is openly planning a cyberattack on critical Court infrastructure, and explicitly describing herself as an opponent of the Court. I think Paz may be crying because she's not only going to have to split up with Kat, she's going to have to act against her. Kat is so excited that she can't keep still. And is either completely oblivious to Paz and Annie's expressions, or pretending to not notice them. Yup, and I think that's pretty realistic for a light manic or hypomanic state. High affective empathy but low cognitive empathy; you still care about the emotions you read off other people, but you have trouble reading them correctly. Negative emotions are particularly hard to perceive. (For that reason, it may seem to other people as if you don't care about their worries, which is how Paz and Annie may be feeling here.) I'm wondering whether this is Kat's typical condition when she's in full Holmesian problem-solving mode, and we just haven't seen it much because she normally isolates herself at that time. Perhaps it's what led to this scene. If so, it's easy to see why she's not trying hard to prevent it; it's the price of high productivity. Kat still could've done this with a mirror. Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, just made it a wearable instead. Or put it in her arm. Probably still needs proximity to her central nervous system, even if it doesn't have to physically touch. As for making it wearable, that'd be easier for the Court to detect or steal. Me, I think it's more likely that she's trying to be responsible, even if she's blind to the overall risk. Think of a drunk person who's willing to drive, but thinks they're being "safe" as long as they keep it below 20 mph and keep the headlights on. |
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Post by Per on Feb 15, 2023 16:33:47 GMT
Paz finds Kat's PC building antics so mundane (given the setting and character) that she's thinking back on the zamburiñas she had in a back-alley restaurant in Vigo on her eleventh birthday and shedding a single tear of culinary appreciation. It's details like this that make this such a good comic.
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Post by hannibalbarca on Feb 15, 2023 17:01:09 GMT
i'm so sorry, other people's reactions are making me understand i'm in the minority here. but somehow the pacing of the last few pages make this hilarious to me. kat is talking about how nice her little farm with the rabbits will be and paz and annie look like they're about to put her down humanely.
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Post by blazingstar on Feb 15, 2023 17:07:39 GMT
Is there a reason to think Kat's about to lose her humanity irrevocably? Annie's gone through all kinds of transmutations and powerups; she's still Annie. I don't think Paz is crying because she sees Kat losing her humanity - at least, not in the way you imply. She's crying because Kat sprang a request for SURGERY on her two most beloved people, without notice, without providing any evidence that the procedure or the chip is perfectly safe, without telling anyone she was developing such a radical modification on her own body. This decision wasn't just risky, it was inconsiderate, and although Kat jokes about Annie's lack of emotional intelligence all the time, she clearly doesn't care how it may hurt Paz, Annie, or herself. It has always pained Paz to see Kat lose herself in her work at the cost of her values or self-preservation. After all, both the Norns and Gamma foresaw that she's on the right path....But in the comic to date, the kids usually learn from their bad decisions rather than being destroyed by them. Neither The Norns nor Zimmy/Gamma EVER said that Kat was on the "right path"; in the flow of time, there is no right path, only inevitable events. Kat was always going make these choices, but that doesn't mean they're not harmful, hurtful, or destructive choices. Zimmy in particular foresaw that she was always destined on this path, but explicitly warned that it was NOT GOOD. Kat is so excited that she can't keep still. And is either completely oblivious to Paz and Annie's expressions, or pretending to not notice them. Yup, and I think that's pretty realistic for a light manic or hypomanic state. High affective empathy but low cognitive empathy; you still care about the emotions you read off other people, but you have trouble reading them correctly. Negative emotions are particularly hard to perceive. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's dangerous to diagnose fictional characters with symptoms of clinical mental disorders that haven't explicitly been stated in the story. Especially when extreme excitement, ignoring consequences, and lapses in empathy are actually pretty typical for teenagers, or anyone who has every been really, really excited about their interest. Slapping diagnoses on completely normal situations can trivialize mental health problems, making it harder for real-life people who actually deal with them to get understanding and support. |
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 15, 2023 17:29:09 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. Ugh whatever, Paz. Maybe have some dang self-respect and don't go along with stuff you don't wanna do. Kat still could've done this with a mirror. Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, just made it a wearable instead. Or put it in her arm. Basically I think Kat just wanted to test the limits of her friend and girlfriend's doormat tendencies. I think the shared yet unspoken assumption is that if they don’t go along with her plan, most likely Kat would create a robotic surgeon and use it without proper testing. So it’s the best of the worst variants. |
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