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Post by Gemminie on Feb 15, 2023 17:32:04 GMT
Annie picks up a scalpel as Kat continues to geek out about all the amazing work she's done. It's self-congratulatory, but the fact is that what she's done is certainly pretty amazing, if her other inventions are any indication. Annie has made an incision, so Paz urges Kat to hold still. We see a shot from a distance as Annie grips the implant with a pair of forceps, then we see a close-up of the implant, held in Annie's forceps.
Then the final two frames of the page are a mirror image of one another. As Kat continues to exult about what this implant will allow her to accomplish, we see Annie bent over but looking forward with open eyes, and we see Paz, her eyes closed, a tear rolling down her face. I am given the strong impression that Paz is whom Annie is looking at. This in turn gives me the impression that the two of them had a conversation about what to do, possibly while Paz was getting the extra things she said they needed.
The tear makes it even more clear how Paz feels about this; she believes that it will change Kat even more than she's been changing lately, and to Paz it probably feels as if Kat is drifting away from her. But she's going through with this partly because she loves Kat anyway and wants her to be happy, and partly because she knows that if she refused to help, Kat would just have Annie do it, or if Annie refused as well, she'd find someone else, perhaps Robot or some of the New People (there are many of them; perhaps some of them have the knowledge or skills necessary). And then Paz wouldn't be involved, and Kat might not ask her to help with such things in the future. They may have spoken about that, and chosen to go forward with it warily for those reasons. They may also have spoken about how oddly Kat is behaving. But I guess we'll see ...
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Post by bedinsis on Feb 15, 2023 17:34:51 GMT
I'd like to imagine that Annie asks about Paz' tear on next page, so that someone can verbalize that they think this is a bad idea, and why. Their facial expressions have so far given that impression.
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 15, 2023 17:46:45 GMT
Quite the manic state. I wonder if once the chip is active, Kat's behavior will dramatically change. One moment, that hyper manic giddiness; the next, stoic understanding.
These pages are certainly setting a disconcerting mood.
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Post by shadow3 on Feb 15, 2023 18:43:51 GMT
PLOT TWIST: Paz is an agent of the Court with a mission to monitor Kat, and Kat is needed to complete Omega due to her ability to decipher the machine code, so Paz was ordered to help make it happen.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 15, 2023 23:54:21 GMT
What is Paz crying about? Girls, if your partner does not support you in your transhumanist experiments into surpassing the limitations of flesh, dump them ASAP, they don't deserve you |
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Post by Runningflame on Feb 16, 2023 0:17:12 GMT
I'm wondering whether this is Kat's typical condition when she's in full Holmesian problem-solving mode, and we just haven't seen it much because she normally isolates herself at that time. Perhaps it's what led to this scene. If so, it's easy to see why she's not trying hard to prevent it; it's the price of high productivity. Problem-solving mode sometimes also results in Kat being a butt. |
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Post by maxptc on Feb 16, 2023 0:30:10 GMT
I mean we know this ends with how the chapter begins, Kat being able to raise the remaining robots from the ground, but the ominous tone makes me think that's only a very small part of what is about to happen. Mecha Kat feels closer then ever.
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Post by yellowb on Feb 16, 2023 1:35:55 GMT
I'd like to imagine that Annie asks about Paz' tear on next page, so that someone can verbalize that they think this is a bad idea, and why. That is one way this could actually go. Of course, Kat would then have someone else - a robot, or a New Person - insert the chip instead. Unless a Tic-toc flies in and steals the chip, I'm afraid it will go in, if not on the next page, then eventually. And since the next update is on Friday, and Tom likes Friday cliffhangers, my bet is on the next page. |
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dah
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Post by dah on Feb 16, 2023 2:22:01 GMT
The silence hits hard.
Paz and Annie know something horrible is going to happen and that Kat will be at the center of it. Everything that needed to be said has already been said, nothing changed.
There is nothing either of them can say or do to stop her.
It's not really about the chip or that they're implanting it. That's a small thing at the end of the day. Rather, it's symbolic. It represents a point of no return. A point which Kat has long since passed.
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Post by blahzor on Feb 16, 2023 4:43:31 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. Sometimes you gotta let your girlfriend become god and maybe get a job at a local shelter while she created new species |
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Post by sosleepy on Feb 16, 2023 5:40:00 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. I can undertand why Paz feels this way but i also think she's way too fatalistic about this. Yes it IS hard to stop Kat from bending her line to the bitter end, but Paz of all people should understand that her opinion might have a big value in such things. It feels like she undervalues her position in this relationship way too much. And it's not like Kat is in the latest stage of becoming a cyberpsycho or acting completely delusional to the point of being completely devoid of sense. She didn't really make any other body modifications before right? The other case might be that Paz doesn't just think but KNOWS she can't stop it. She can't know future though... can she? |
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Post by sosleepy on Feb 16, 2023 5:41:50 GMT
Hah, i'm suddenly having strange Dr. Octopus vibes from all this. Also I wonder if Court could literally highjack Kat through this chip.
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Post by jda on Feb 16, 2023 5:44:54 GMT
Hah, i'm suddenly having strange Dr. Octopus vibes from all this. Also I wonder if Court could literally highjack Kat through this chip. That's... a way for all this to end. A Mecha Kat under the Court dominion would be Omega ASAP. |
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laaaa
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Post by laaaa on Feb 16, 2023 8:16:51 GMT
Yup, and I think that's pretty realistic for a light manic or hypomanic state. High affective empathy but low cognitive empathy; you still care about the emotions you read off other people, but you have trouble reading them correctly. Negative emotions are particularly hard to perceive. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's dangerous to diagnose fictional characters with symptoms of clinical mental disorders that haven't explicitly been stated in the story. Especially when extreme excitement, ignoring consequences, and lapses in empathy are actually pretty typical for teenagers, or anyone who has every been really, really excited about their interest. Slapping diagnoses on completely normal situations can trivialize mental health problems, making it harder for real-life people who actually deal with them to get understanding and support. I agree. I also think that, as nearly omniscient spectators of the unfolding events, we tend to judge comic characters too harshly. Real people don't always behave rationally nor ideally though. Undergoing a medical surgery without seeking a second medical opinion first, ignoring your loved ones worries, being too excited to think clearly, having an inflated sense of self assurance, staying silent because you worry that being perceived as judgemental by a loved one will make thing worse, are all things that happen in real life and we can only perceive them when we get older. These are teenagers. Plus I really don't think Kat has mania/hypomania, she's just excited and maybe has poor forethought. Mania/hypomania have a range of symptoms thay extend well beyond that. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 16, 2023 11:25:22 GMT
"If only there was some way to prevent the actions I'm currently doing!"
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 16, 2023 11:27:39 GMT
"Don't worry, Annie and Paz, I'll fix that crying problem in the next patch"
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 16, 2023 11:32:37 GMT
What is Paz crying about? Girls, if your partner does not support you in your transhumanist experiments into surpassing the limitations of flesh, dump them ASAP, they don't deserve you Death to Videodrome! |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 16, 2023 13:05:00 GMT
Oh, Paz. I guess she does understand how bad this is then. Maybe she just doesn't think she can or should stop it. Ugh whatever, Paz. Maybe have some dang self-respect and don't go along with stuff you don't wanna do. Kat still could've done this with a mirror. Or, given it's subcutaneous and therefore not hooked directly to any nervous tissue, just made it a wearable instead. Or put it in her arm. Basically I think Kat just wanted to test the limits of her friend and girlfriend's doormat tendencies. I think the shared yet unspoken assumption is that if they don’t go along with her plan, most likely Kat would create a robotic surgeon and use it without proper testing. So it’s the best of the worst variants. How about even attempting some form of dialogue? The choices aren't just 1. implant it for her, 2. she gets a robot to do it. There's a whole spectrum of potential actions here. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 16, 2023 13:06:30 GMT
The silence hits hard. Paz and Annie know something horrible is going to happen and that Kat will be at the center of it. Everything that needed to be said has already been said, nothing changed. There is nothing either of them can say or do to stop her.What? Are we reading the same comic? Annie and Paz have barely voiced any concerns in this chapter. |
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Ammy
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Post by Ammy on Feb 16, 2023 16:12:27 GMT
Next page is gonna be the cliffhanger of the ages, I can feel it. Annie's also doing her classic closed-eyes " mask face" on panel 2, which is generally the face she makes when she's closing off her emotions. Probably so she can perform this minor (extremely foreboding) surgery on her best friend without freaking out over the ramifications, I feel. If the chip corrupts Kat.. if Kat = Omega, or maybe even part of Omega, then perhaps this would also explain why the Fates have seen Kat many times before - with the Court sort of using Kat as a relay to divine the future in their pool. Either that or they were just referring to her alternate timeline selves. |
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manabi
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Post by manabi on Feb 16, 2023 19:58:19 GMT
I find the ending of the previous chapter and this one incredibly strange in terms of pace and mood? No one seems to talk to each other properly or be able to stop very stopable events, which is very much like a nightmare. I don't think Kat wanting to control her computer with her brain is that strange in the context of Gunnerkrigg - etheric users like Annie enter the Magical Matrix daily and talk with gods all the time. Non etheric users can get tattoos to gain superpowers or access etheric based technology (and is that even safe?). It's the way Kat is written and drawn here that freaks me out. I feel I'm seeing Zimmie's nightmare rather than reality. It's also weird how suddenly Annie has surgical skills. Sure her dad's a surgeon and she grew up in a hospital, but have we even seen her operate on anyone before this? Sure, Annie's overconfident a lot, but it's surreal seeing her being comfortable with taking a scalpel to her best friend's neck. |
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Post by stef1987 on Feb 16, 2023 20:08:55 GMT
It is pretty weird IMO that both Annie and Paz didn't really try to voice their concerns properly. Clearly they don't like this, and clearly Kat is unaware of this. So for godsakes why didn't they just told Kat?!
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Post by stef1987 on Feb 16, 2023 20:10:04 GMT
The silence hits hard. Paz and Annie know something horrible is going to happen and that Kat will be at the center of it. Everything that needed to be said has already been said, nothing changed. There is nothing either of them can say or do to stop her.What? Are we reading the same comic? Annie and Paz have barely voiced any concerns in this chapter. exactly! it's so weird |
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 16, 2023 20:30:50 GMT
]How about even attempting some form of dialogue? The choices aren't just 1. implant it for her, 2. she gets a robot to do it. There's a whole spectrum of potential actions here. They gave up. Maybe too soon. But they know her. |
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Post by Isildur on Feb 19, 2023 5:59:54 GMT
The thing is, I don't see how she can be as sure as us that it's such a terrible moment. Unless someone has made her aware of something more. Something she couldn't share with Kat or Annie. Kat is acting rather manically, and Paz has seen Kat's etheric robo-goddess form. Paz is also not quite satisfied it's safe in the first place. She should communicate this to Kat of course, but there has been so much bad communication in this comic that this is almost to be expected. Those sure are some... wild-specish interpretations alright. Sooo... given Friday's conspiratorial glances between Annie and Paz... #1 seems considerably less wildspec, no? I mean, Kat clearly doesn't suspect sabotage yet (which makes sense — if the sabotage was immediately obvious, the sabotage wouldn't delay Kat much, because Kat would waste no time in recreating the interface and trying again with scalpel servos or whatever) but it appears I did call it, in terms of sabotage. However, assuming Annie and Paz did sabotage it (with them presumably having conferred over the ether) a question now remains of whether they agreed on the sabotage before Paz's tear or after. The tear could have been one of: (Before sabotage agreement:) 1. I'm scared of what this will do to Kat. (After sabotage agreement:) 2. I'm scared of what will happen when Kat finds out 3. I'm so happy, Annie, that I'm quietly crying with joy and relief that we have a plan for delaying Kat from doing this to herself. My earlier post's #1 was this post's #2, but I'm now leaning toward this post's #1 or #3, now, due to the subsequent grins between Paz and Annie. |
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Post by silicondream on Feb 23, 2023 16:24:20 GMT
Apologies for taking so long to respond! Is there a reason to think Kat's about to lose her humanity irrevocably? Annie's gone through all kinds of transmutations and powerups; she's still Annie. I don't think Paz is crying because she sees Kat losing her humanity - at least, not in the way you imply. She's crying because Kat sprang a request for SURGERY on her two most beloved people, without notice, without providing any evidence that the procedure or the chip is perfectly safe, without telling anyone she was developing such a radical modification on her own body. This decision wasn't just risky, it was inconsiderate, and although Kat jokes about Annie's lack of emotional intelligence all the time, she clearly doesn't care how it may hurt Paz, Annie, or herself. Or she doesn't realize that it may hurt them, which was my point in suggesting hypomania. It is possible to be well-intentioned but still cause harm; we've seen that plenty of times in this comic. Self-preservation, yes; Paz has certainly worried over Kat's physical and emotional welfare. I don't really remember her worrying about Kat betraying her own values, though. Frankly, she'd obviously prefer that Kat adjust her values a bit. (That's not just jealousy talking; Paz and Kat have had substantive ethical disagreements since the start of their relationship. They respect each other, care for each other and enjoy each other's company, but there's a reason we never see them working together.) Paz prioritizes Kat's contentment and happiness over her self-actualization, I would say. That's usually a good thing, since Kat herself does not. No, Gamma said exactly that. "She was set to travel a dark road…but Antimony's presence helped put her on a better path. In turn, Kat will help lead the Court itself in a better direction." And she said that the source of Zimmy's fear was not that Kat was still going to travel that "dark road," but that she had the "negative potential" to do so. Zimmy herself said that Kat was set to "break through to the unseen world," but she didn't say that it was going to be NOT GOOD; she said that it scared her and that it was stressful for Kat. A lot of things scare Zimmy, and Kat in particular is someone that she's always been scared of, but still chose to approach in the past. Remember that Zimmy has a lot of self-loathing, and thinks that she's a bad person who deserves to be punished. Her fear that Kat will kill her does not imply that she thinks Kat will be doing anything wrong. As for the Norns, it's true that they don't speak in terms of multiple paths. But they do straight-up say that Kat's rescue operation will save both Annie and herself. It would be a little odd if that salvation was followed by techno-damnation a few months later. But hey, maybe the Norns and Gamma are just wrong. Maybe their precognition's going haywire, like Omega's. Or maybe they're lying; we have no particular evidence that they're exceptionally honest beings. I doubt it's just you, but I…don't, really. It's dangerous to diagnose real people, certainly, but fictional characters basically exist to be interpreted and speculated about. Mania, depression, social anxiety, etc. are mental conditions that a lot of readers have experienced, with a diverse array of presentations, and I think it's just as legitimate to project them on to the characters as any thought or emotion or desire. To me, "Kat seems mildly manic right now" is not all that different from "Kat seems to be in love with Paz" or "Kat seems to have a thing for birds" or whatever. All I'm saying is, I know how I act when I'm getting a bit manic, and Kat's behavior reminds me of that. If other readers who've experienced or observed mania disagree, that's equally valid. And I can certainly adjust my language if it bothers enough folks. Well, as one of those people, I still behave more or less "normally" most of the time, and I think it's important for people to understand that having a mental disorder doesn't necessarily mean acting like a Looney Tunes character. Sometimes the outward symptoms are subtle. Besides, I don't think this is typical behavior for Kat. She's usually quite sensitive to her friends' feelings, notices when they're overwhelmed by jargon and rephrases her language, etc. Even in that scene where Annie walked in on her fighting with Paz, she was clearly aware that Paz was upset. Her current demeanor and behavior are unusual. Not "Kat has become a power-crazed megalomaniac who sees her friends as mere instruments for her dark designs!!" unusual, but unusual nonetheless. It's the change that feels significant, even if there are lots of other people who act like this all the time. |
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Post by Isildur on Mar 24, 2023 19:51:30 GMT
Kat is acting rather manically, and Paz has seen Kat's etheric robo-goddess form. Paz is also not quite satisfied it's safe in the first place. She should communicate this to Kat of course, but there has been so much bad communication in this comic that this is almost to be expected. Those sure are some... wild-specish interpretations alright. Sooo... given Friday's conspiratorial glances between Annie and Paz... #1 seems considerably less wildspec, no? I mean, Kat clearly doesn't suspect sabotage yet (which makes sense — if the sabotage was immediately obvious, the sabotage wouldn't delay Kat much, because Kat would waste no time in recreating the interface and trying again with scalpel servos or whatever) but it appears I did call it, in terms of sabotage. However, assuming Annie and Paz did sabotage it (with them presumably having conferred over the ether) a question now remains of whether they agreed on the sabotage before Paz's tear or after. The tear could have been one of: (Before sabotage agreement:) 1. I'm scared of what this will do to Kat. (After sabotage agreement:) 2. I'm scared of what will happen when Kat finds out 3. I'm so happy, Annie, that I'm quietly crying with joy and relief that we have a plan for delaying Kat from doing this to herself. My earlier post's #1 was this post's #2, but I'm now leaning toward this post's #1 or #3, now, due to the subsequent grins between Paz and Annie. Belated return to this thread, but yeah, those speculations of mine got pretty firmly buried in the disproved wildspec graveyard, before long.  |
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