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Post by arf on Feb 13, 2023 23:45:07 GMT
At this point, the 'kid' is 16-17, and we have had premonitionsYIKES. I didn't realise that particular panel was ominous. See ya, indeed. That's not surprising: the implications of Tom's remark only become apparent two chapters later, so it would only be picked up on a re-read (which I clearly do too often!) |
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Post by arf on Feb 13, 2023 23:57:01 GMT
Funnily enough, this page reminded me of another page that made me less concerned for Kat's safety. Specifically, this page, where Kat's mother reveal that she had done bodily modifications in the past to increase her technological abilities. That worked out fine, so it makes sense that it would work out fine for Kat as well. Those were tattoos, applied under ambiguous conditions. I have another reference to this: the Serbian animated film 'Technotise: Edit and I', which also follows what happens when someone has a chip implant to help with their studies (it's a very good film, by the way, although NSFW) |
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Post by arf on Feb 14, 2023 0:10:48 GMT
While everyone's picking up on Kat's uncharacteristically manic behaviour, I suppose Annie and Paz are going along with this because Kat's judgement has been pretty solid in the past.
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Post by sosleepy on Feb 14, 2023 3:00:40 GMT
It's strange but Kat reminds me of that puppy from "Traveller" comic. The one who swam away in to the ocean. He felt no fear but was entranced by the sea. He was bound only to crawl on the ground, but in the sea he was truly free i guess. I think Kat marches into unknown the same way but unlike the doggo she's still looking back and tries not to move too far away from the ones close to her. But i guess it's just the matter of time when Kat stops being Kat and that's actually kinda terrifying. Not to mention that the mechgoddes stuff.
Also i wonder if robot tries to move his kind closer to humans by spreading the Mechgoddes religion so they could have their own God. Maybe they'll even be able to access the Ether by this means.
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Post by sosleepy on Feb 14, 2023 3:20:46 GMT
No, it'd be too dark if she were lost forever. Kat is a kid and the story's second protagonist. But we are heading into a pretty glum and bumpy road, that's for sure. At this point, the 'kid' is 16-17, and we have had premonitionsThat's... deeply unsettling haha! I rather doubt that Kat will die though and Norns said that by saving Annie she also saved herself. That doesn't exactly mean literal death immunity but rather being saved from some "dark path in life" but still! I wanna believe that all's gonna end well. Don't want anyone to die and i don't want this comic to end too. I regret reading this comic so late. Feels like i'm late to the party kinda~ |
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Post by lightshade on Feb 14, 2023 4:19:47 GMT
My own interpretation of Paz's face is that she REALLY wants to speak up but knows it will do no good. It's not like she's ever had trouble speaking her mind before when she feels strongly about something but Kat's in a manic phase and nothing is gonna snap her out of it. So she's gonna be there with her through this but afterwards? That's the big question mark. Many a relationship has been ended because one person's needs and wants steamrolled over the other person's. Kat may get what she wants (or thinks she wants) here but lose someone very important to her.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 14, 2023 4:35:31 GMT
Just a couple-a friends doin some friend surgery. That's all!
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Post by blahzor on Feb 14, 2023 7:00:37 GMT
IS it just me or over the last few pages have there been a lot of comments trying to read the worst possible intentions/meanings into Paz's relatively few and very neutral sounding words. I really don't get the dislike she receives for very minor things. I agree. Paz has acted out exactly once in the past, with Kat's best interest in mind, and not without some cause. She even expressed regret afterwards (character growth!) Right now she's just being reservedly supportive (a good quality for a SO when you're doing something innovative but potentially dangerous). Paz just watching her Marie Curie play with Radium Also have any couple ever broke up in the comic except Surma and Eglamore |
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Post by laaaa on Feb 14, 2023 8:30:21 GMT
I think I figured out why they are both going along with this.
Kat is going to go for it anyway, even if they don't help her.
She hasn't seen her own mecha angel form, unlike Zimmy, Annie and Paz. She doesn't think anything of Zimmy's premonitions: Zimmy has mainly been rude amd weird to her, and while she obviously has a lot of powers, she can't exactly control them. And, of course she's not going to kill anyone, yikes!! Plus she made this chip herself, it's not like it's Court technology. She's in control, it's fine.
(Also, let's admit that if it weren't for Zimmy's premonitions, half of us would be cheering for Kat)
And if Annie and Paz wouldn't help her, Kat would just ask the robots to do it.
So Annie and Paz might as well participate and keep an eye on things.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 14, 2023 15:30:51 GMT
I’m starting to wonder if that’s not Paz at all, and if the Robots have either replaced or hijacked her. Seriously though. no-one has investigated *how* Zimmy thinks Kat is going to kill her? It could be by accident. In about a years time, when this pays off, Jack will suddenly arrive saying "I knew this would happen!" |
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Post by yellowb on Feb 14, 2023 15:32:34 GMT
Don't forget that we haven't seen any of Kat's upcoming (from her perspective) visits to the Norns yet (previous visits from the Norns' perspective). |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 14, 2023 15:35:32 GMT
I agree. Paz has acted out exactly once in the past, with Kat's best interest in mind, and not without some cause. She even expressed regret afterwards (character growth!) Right now she's just being reservedly supportive (a good quality for a SO when you're doing something innovative but potentially dangerous). Paz just watching her Marie Curie play with Radium Also have any couple ever broke up in the comic except Surma and Eglamore Siddell doesn't really explore leaving toxic relationships in this work. For whatever reason. |
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Post by yellowb on Feb 14, 2023 15:53:19 GMT
I agree. Paz has acted out exactly once in the past, with Kat's best interest in mind, and not without some cause. She even expressed regret afterwards (character growth!) Right now she's just being reservedly supportive (a good quality for a SO when you're doing something innovative but potentially dangerous). Paz just watching her Marie Curie play with Radium Also have any couple ever broke up in the comic except Surma and Eglamore Eglamore and Jones were - in their own way - an item. But later, Eglamore started dating Idra. I don't know if that counts as a breakup, though. |
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Post by laaaa on Feb 14, 2023 18:04:08 GMT
I’m starting to wonder if that’s not Paz at all, and if the Robots have either replaced or hijacked her. Seriously though. no-one has investigated *how* Zimmy thinks Kat is going to kill her? It could be by accident. Yeah, I also trust Kat not to turn into a homicidal maniac with zero morals (Annie probably does too, and that's why she's helping). We fear that Kat might kill Zimmy to exploit her powers or might get tricked by the Omega device into killing Zimmy or something, but there are other possible options: 1) An accident 2) Zimmy panics and starts harming others in self-defense, Kat kills her to save Annie and/or other loved ones. 3) The Court kills Gamma, and Zimmy will no longer have any comfort. She asks for whoever is available, who happens to be Kat, to end her suffering (yikes) 4) The Court captures Zimmy and is about to do something really horrible with her powers. Kat intervenes to prevent a worse outcome. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 14, 2023 18:42:10 GMT
Watch Paz more than making up for Annie's bedside manner. Seriously though, why is Annie going along with this? In panel 2, she looks as if this is the last thing she wants to do, but she's doing it. I think for the same reason Paz did, neither look happy about this. The next individuals on Kat's list to ask would be the robots who would do most things Kat would ask them to. Kat doesn't stop with them - she just goes and gets individuals less qualified than them. And they're frankly not qualified in the first place. What makes you (and others) so sure that Kat would just go to some other, less trusted person? How about trying to convince her that her idea is a really bad one and she shouldn't do it at all? If the two people I trust the most both told me that my plan is bad, I would at least spend some time thinking about it, instead of just asking someone else instead. I really thought that by now the main characters would have learned that communication is important. Except that back then were (assuming Anja's memory is correct) obviously good times for everyone involved. While here we see Kat with a manic grin while the others are clearly very uncomfortable, but not speaking up for some weird reason. Paz just watching her Marie Curie play with Radium Also have any couple ever broke up in the comic except Surma and Eglamore Siddell doesn't really explore leaving toxic relationships in this work. For whatever reason. And the one that ended wasn't even one of the toxic ones... All the others just seem to be "well, the toxic partner is somewhat nicer now, so it's okay now", but even in the cases where the relationship has progressed to a more or less healthy state not once have we been shown any kind of coming to terms with what happened in the past, or, you know, at least an apology. Definitely my biggest gripes with the comic as well. |
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Post by blazingstar on Feb 14, 2023 20:41:34 GMT
It's strange but Kat reminds me of that puppy from "Traveller" comic. The one who swam away in to the ocean. He felt no fear but was entranced by the sea. He was bound only to crawl on the ground, but in the sea he was truly free i guess. I think Kat marches into unknown the same way but unlike the doggo she's still looking back and tries not to move too far away from the ones close to her. But i guess it's just the matter of time when Kat stops being Kat and that's actually kinda terrifying. Not to mention that the mechgoddes stuff. Also i wonder if robot tries to move his kind closer to humans by spreading the Mechgoddes religion so they could have their own God. Maybe they'll even be able to access the Ether by this means. I haven't commented in a long time, but I think this is a good occasion to break my silence as any: Welcome to the forums! We're glad to have you! I love it when people find similar themes in the side comics, which many readers forget about. The slow and steady march towards the Age of MechaGodess Kat has been a fascinating one. It is greatly implied that the robots New People are very close to achieving true person-hood, and joining the Ether - which is powered by the recycling of souls. At what point will the GC universe acknowledge them as being "alive" enough to have souls? They have bodies that are, for all intents and purposes, biological. They are fully acknowledged by Etheric creatures as having " living minds". They can experience emotions, independent thought, and concepts like "faith". They have a "creator". Is it because none of them have experienced true birth (all of the New People were not "born" in their current bodies, but were transferred with their consciousness intact)? None of them have experienced true death, either - they are still somewhat conscious when their bodies are turned off. Will a NEW New Person's code have to be created completely from scratch and put into one of Kat's living bodies, in order for it to have a "soul"? Will one of them have to die, permanently? Is that when they will join the Ether, and Kat will ascend to Goddess-hood? I await my cookies. |
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Post by blazingstar on Feb 14, 2023 20:46:22 GMT
Why do I get the feeling this is the last we see of Kat, as such? The last time Kat did something like this, reality unzipped and they met a god. I'm willing to bet serious money that something similar will be triggered this time. We are in the final stages of witnessing her ascension to Goddess MechaKat, and it's fascinating to see how inevitable it is - she was given all the warnings, and chooses to ignore them all for the sake of her own growth, her progress, her innovation. And her loved ones cannot stop her, so they're just trying to support her in any way they can. |
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Post by fia on Feb 15, 2023 0:05:26 GMT
Except that back then were (assuming Anja's memory is correct) obviously good times for everyone involved. While here we see Kat with a manic grin while the others are clearly very uncomfortable, but not speaking up for some weird reason. I did say shades. |
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Post by fia on Feb 15, 2023 0:20:16 GMT
Siddell doesn't really explore leaving toxic relationships in this work. For whatever reason. And the one that ended wasn't even one of the toxic ones... All the others just seem to be "well, the toxic partner is somewhat nicer now, so it's okay now", but even in the cases where the relationship has progressed to a more or less healthy state not once have we been shown any kind of coming to terms with what happened in the past, or, you know, at least an apology. Definitely my biggest gripes with the comic as well. Well, two things: 1. May be a thematic focus he's not interested in, or rather, that he much prefers to approach obliquely as some other authors do. (Even with Annie's mother's death, we get indirect indications at best throughout the comic of her grieving process, and its "resolution" is more magic than psychotherapy. That said, the obliqueness is not an indication the characters do not experience or ever talk about these issues among themselves, as Paz's behavior, among other things, has made clear). That should be allowed, in my opinion. Not all authors have to deal with the kind of moral upshots of certain relationship troubles. (I say this as a philosopher, fwiw.) 2. Here's a very ad hominem thing to say, which I usually avoid, but I mean it tongue-in-cheek (so apologies if any of the forumites are in this group): the man is British. See for example this style of communicating and also this style of communicating. Historically, I'm not sure the British are known for their apologies, or their coming to terms with what has happened in the past.  |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 15, 2023 0:45:57 GMT
Except that back then were (assuming Anja's memory is correct) obviously good times for everyone involved. While here we see Kat with a manic grin while the others are clearly very uncomfortable, but not speaking up for some weird reason. I did say shades.Very faint shades, considering these tattoos also had a very different purpose, protection from the deadly power of one specific individual...
And the one that ended wasn't even one of the toxic ones... All the others just seem to be "well, the toxic partner is somewhat nicer now, so it's okay now", but even in the cases where the relationship has progressed to a more or less healthy state not once have we been shown any kind of coming to terms with what happened in the past, or, you know, at least an apology. Definitely my biggest gripes with the comic as well. Well, two things: 1. May be a thematic focus he's not interested in, or rather, that he much prefers to approach obliquely as some other authors do. (Even with Annie's mother's death, we get indirect indications at best throughout the comic of her grieving process, and its "resolution" is more magic than psychotherapy. That said, the obliqueness is not an indication the characters do not experience or ever talk about these issues among themselves, as Paz's behavior, among other things, has made clear). That should be allowed, in my opinion. Not all authors have to deal with the kind of moral upshots of certain relationship troubles. (I say this as a philosopher, fwiw.) You might be right, but then I have to ask, if one is not willing to lend any focus on the coming to terms, why introduce these explicitly toxic relationships in the first place? Is, for example, Zimmy being incredibly possessive of Gamma up to and including massive gaslighting and keeping her from building relationships with anyone else, in any way beneficial or necessary for the story? Is Andrew completely ignoring and forgiving having been being constantly bullied by Parley for months as soon as she claims to be in love - and nobody even commenting on this - really the message the author wants to send? If I had been in Andrew's place I would have told Parley to shove her "love" where the sun doesn't shine if that's the way she treats her "beloved". Would it have been so difficult to devote a couple panels to at least show Parley apologizing? It's not as if the comic never shows people properly talking and making up. |
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Post by maxptc on Feb 15, 2023 1:23:45 GMT
You might be right, but then I have to ask, if one is not willing to lend any focus on the coming to terms, why introduce these explicitly toxic relationships in the first place? Is, for example, Zimmy being incredibly possessive of Gamma up to and including massive gaslighting and keeping her from building relationships with anyone else, in any way beneficial or necessary for the story? Is Andrew completely ignoring and forgiving having been being constantly bullied by Parley for months as soon as she claims to be in love - and nobody even commenting on this - really the message the author wants to send? If I had been in Andrew's place I would have told Parley to shove her "love" where the sun doesn't shine if that's the way she treats her "beloved". Would it have been so difficult to devote a couple panels to at least show Parley apologizing? It's not as if the comic never shows people properly talking and making up.I mean is everything romantic in the comic suppose to be part of a morality play? Should only perfect relationships and people behaving perfectly within them be presented? Most people in relationships, first relationships in particular, dont have those types of communication skills. These types of relationships existing in reality is enough reason to have them in the comic imo. In life you don't always get resolution and the people partaking dont always notice or care about bad behavior. Some less then perfect things contiune on endlessly without anyone saying anything ever. Should that not be the case in a story? Even moderate/okay relationships don't always have the people in them recognizing or acknowledgeding the bad things that happened, particularly if neither party cares about it at that time. For example if Parley apologized Smit would have been like "for what? I enjoyed the attention". We know he didn't feel like telling Parley to shove it, he didn't care because she was "hot". While you might have told her to shove it, and as an adult that would likely be me as well, as a teenager I'd have reacted almost exactly like Smit. Is that healthy and will Smit still feel like that if the relationship ends is another question of course. But totally healthy isn't the only valid representation of romance. Flawed but trying is more realistic. Outright toxic has its place as well. |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 15, 2023 5:03:36 GMT
Paz just watching her Marie Curie play with Radium Also have any couple ever broke up in the comic except Surma and Eglamore Eglamore and Jones were - in their own way - an item. But later, Eglamore started dating Idra. I don't know if that counts as a breakup, though. That seems more like you're here I'm here type deal |
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Post by sosleepy on Feb 15, 2023 6:01:37 GMT
It's strange but Kat reminds me of that puppy from "Traveller" comic. The one who swam away in to the ocean. He felt no fear but was entranced by the sea. He was bound only to crawl on the ground, but in the sea he was truly free i guess. I think Kat marches into unknown the same way but unlike the doggo she's still looking back and tries not to move too far away from the ones close to her. But i guess it's just the matter of time when Kat stops being Kat and that's actually kinda terrifying. Not to mention that the mechgoddes stuff. Also i wonder if robot tries to move his kind closer to humans by spreading the Mechgoddes religion so they could have their own God. Maybe they'll even be able to access the Ether by this means. I haven't commented in a long time, but I think this is a good occasion to break my silence as any: Welcome to the forums! We're glad to have you! I love it when people find similar themes in the side comics, which many readers forget about. The slow and steady march towards the Age of MechaGodess Kat has been a fascinating one. It is greatly implied that the robots New People are very close to achieving true person-hood, and joining the Ether - which is powered by the recycling of souls. At what point will the GC universe acknowledge them as being "alive" enough to have souls? They have bodies that are, for all intents and purposes, biological. They are fully acknowledged by Etheric creatures as having " living minds". They can experience emotions, independent thought, and concepts like "faith". They have a "creator". Is it because none of them have experienced true birth (all of the New People were not "born" in their current bodies, but were transferred with their consciousness intact)? None of them have experienced true death, either - they are still somewhat conscious when their bodies are turned off. Will a NEW New Person's code have to be created completely from scratch and put into one of Kat's living bodies, in order for it to have a "soul"? Will one of them have to die, permanently? Is that when they will join the Ether, and Kat will ascend to Goddess-hood? I await my cookies. Oh h-hi! Thanks for the welcome and boy that's a lot of unanswered questions and i still got more haha! I'm not sure if it was said already but what IS a soul in the GC universe? Is it something that humans gain in the process of their birth or something that's being put in their body from some outer source like "chamber of Guf" where all the souls are stored? I really hope that a soul is not being destroyed in the recycling process (since that is kinda cruel), but that would also mean that a soul is created anew one way or another and their amount is endless, because if not our new humanlike friendos will not be able to get one. Maybe a soul is not something "whole" from the start but rather something that is being constantly updated, like some kind of unending code. In that case robots really DO have a soul now and they had it's prototype in the form of their program code before! It simply got an opportunity to keep writing itself down!(human body IS a biological machine after all) And yet again i'm not sure if it was already stated but... did Kat think through their reproduction function? Can they do it and will their children be able to gain a soul and a consciousness from nothing?(hah that's some bladerunner type of question here~) And what kind of process was the transfer of robots code into their new brains been? Could it be that it wasn't the transfer but simply... copying? There was a game called Soma and in case of a human it was exactly it. The original was left behind and the copy continued to live in a new body. That would be kind of cruel... again. And as inescapable as it may be the idea of Kat becoming a goddess saddens me a bit. Because if so then Kat might simply stop being a Kat we know and become something completely else altogether. She's already straying away from humans. Paz supports her but perhaps she's thinking about that possibility too. AND MORE! Why does the Court ingonre all this robot-to-human stuff? Perhaps that's their plan too? They want to literally run away fron Ether but is it really possible to tear humans from the Ether completely? If humankind is inseparable from the Ether then it would be a great idea to turn them into something that Ether doesn't accept(yet)! And Kat has invented just the right solution to that problem. Man i wasn't this interested in a long time! Sorry for this wall of text and sorry if it's a mess~~ I guess i think way faster than i type and i keep forgetting the thing i want to write down before i do hehe. By the way i'm surprised to see that GC community doesn't have anything else besides the forum. Or maybe i'm wrong and there is some kind of a discord server of something like that? Yet i think forums are kind of charming still. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 15, 2023 13:18:31 GMT
[...] By the way i'm surprised to see that GC community doesn't have anything else besides the forum. Or maybe i'm wrong and there is some kind of a discord server of something like that? Yet i think forums are kind of charming still. Welcome!
There's actually a reddit sub with 5.5k members. But I can't tell you anthing more specific about it because even though I use reddit as well, I much prefer the charm of old school BB forums like this one here. <3
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Post by fia on Feb 15, 2023 14:32:19 GMT
Well, two things: 1. May be a thematic focus he's not interested in, or rather, that he much prefers to approach obliquely as some other authors do. (Even with Annie's mother's death, we get indirect indications at best throughout the comic of her grieving process, and its "resolution" is more magic than psychotherapy. That said, the obliqueness is not an indication the characters do not experience or ever talk about these issues among themselves, as Paz's behavior, among other things, has made clear). That should be allowed, in my opinion. Not all authors have to deal with the kind of moral upshots of certain relationship troubles. (I say this as a philosopher, fwiw.) You might be right, but then I have to ask, if one is not willing to lend any focus on the coming to terms, why introduce these explicitly toxic relationships in the first place? Is, for example, Zimmy being incredibly possessive of Gamma up to and including massive gaslighting and keeping her from building relationships with anyone else, in any way beneficial or necessary for the story? Is Andrew completely ignoring and forgiving having been being constantly bullied by Parley for months as soon as she claims to be in love - and nobody even commenting on this - really the message the author wants to send? If I had been in Andrew's place I would have told Parley to shove her "love" where the sun doesn't shine if that's the way she treats her "beloved". Would it have been so difficult to devote a couple panels to at least show Parley apologizing? It's not as if the comic never shows people properly talking and making up.I just want to point out once again that most of these characters are teenagers. What were you like as a teenager? I knew some "old soul" types that knew how to communicate and when to walk away from something, but most of us were idiots and expressing ourselves in all kinds of messy ways in relationships. If anything, although I started to read GC as a teen and am now in my 30s (shocking how long this comic has been going), I've realized how intelligent a reader of human behavior Tom is. Again, I'm a philosopher, and I care deeply about ethics, but works of fiction sometimes tell us more about ourselves when they don't always reflect moral ideals and instead reflect the true messiness of human life. Also, while we have weeks and years to read between the lines and debate a character's best course of action, in their world time is passing much more quickly and there's not quite as ample time to reflect on alternate choices. Many will be acting the same way we do in our lives, based on habit, instinct, and sometimes good sense. |
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Post by Gemminie on Feb 15, 2023 17:16:09 GMT
While here we see Kat with a manic grin while the others are clearly very uncomfortable, but not speaking up for some weird reason. I know; it seems completely unreasonable for both Annie and Paz to have reservations but not to speak a word about them. I suspect that they might have spoken to each other while Paz was "getting some more things they needed" and came up with some sort of plan for how to proceed. |
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Post by Storel on Feb 17, 2023 7:01:22 GMT
[...] By the way i'm surprised to see that GC community doesn't have anything else besides the forum. Or maybe i'm wrong and there is some kind of a discord server of something like that? Yet i think forums are kind of charming still. There's actually a reddit sub with 5.5k members. But I can't tell you anthing more specific about it because even though I use reddit as well, I much prefer the charm of old school BB forums like this one here. <3
I'm surprised nobody mentioned that there is a Gunnerkrigg Discord server. I can't post an invite link because invites are disabled, but it still seems pretty active. Edit: Hmm, I found a permanent invite link posted within the server, so let's see if this works: discord.gg/uaXbDqu |
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