[2733] You have this all wrong!

[madjack]

Two against one.

Really missing that other self of hers right now.

[zbeeblebrox]

Hope Annie brought a spatula cuz she's about to get grilled

[basser]

What is this some switcheroo? Ain't no reason for these two to be acting like weird jerks.

[dortieroo]

I can get them not being first on the 'Annie would never do that!' wagon since they don't know her especially well anymore and haven't been in close touch with her for some time, but this still feels so... forced. Even if you think she's faking not knowing what's going on, why blame her for contacting Zimmy next to the ocean? Jenny picked that location.

Honestly, nothing Jenny and Jack have done this chapter feels in character for them, and I don't know if I should be waiting for a shoe to drop or if they're just like this now.

[imaginaryfriend]

Mkay, I know sometimes dialogue can get a little crunched from fitting it into word bubbles or maybe something happened that wasn't pictured in the comic...

...but it sure seems like Jenny's lying in panel 5 when she says Antimony made them summon Zeta "right next to the Star Ocean." This spot was picked by Jenny (here, also see previous page). She shouldn't be talking about Antimony selecting the diner for the meet-up and that dictating where the ritual had to be since it looks like they traveled a good distance to reach this particular spot. Maybe she's just doing some proactive blame-shifting... but maybe she does have other motives.

[edit] Whoops, ninja'd by five minutes or so. [/edit]

[bicarbonat]

...
And who's Annie going to call for backup/character witness? Certainly not Kat, who may as well be the antichrist where present company is concerned. Renard? "Too biased" and "called Zimmy a demon" (never mind he's grown to like her). Everyone else with an inkling is either Court or Loup.

So much pressure generated by 1 misunderstanding and 2 people we've barely seen. Annie's operating on "guilty until proven innocent" grounds – a very unenviable territory. Unless something clears her, this is going to be one of those wretched lessons in adulthood, à la Wicked (got to give "No Good Deed" a re-listen).

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 16, 2023 9:44:39 GMT bicarbonat said:

And who's Annie going to call for backup/character witness? Certainly not Kat, who may as well be the antichrist where present company is concerned.

I'd immediately call Kat but not for a character witness. Since it looks like the misunderstanding (if that's what this is) isn't going to be cleared up quickly and this isn't the time to deal with hurt feelings, maybe ignoring the winsome duo and pulling out a cell phone to tell Kat to immediately stop whatever she's doing might help Antimony's credibility more than any argument she could make. I wouldn't say "stop hacking Omega" over the phone under the assumption it's being monitored but I figure Kat would listen to a blanket "don't do anything until we can meet up." Antimony might want to risk dropping a hint, though. I don't think it's a trust issue, just that Kat without a specific prohibition might just keep idly hacking into and/or toying with it while waiting for the meeting without thinking anything of it.

[theonethatgotaway]

Jan 16, 2023 9:11:04 GMT dortieroo said:

... why blame her for contacting Zimmy next to the ocean? Jenny picked that location.

Yeah, what's up with that? Jenny said "let's find somewhere more private" and then took 'em up the bluff/cliff. They already made clear beforehand they knew and understood what the star ocean was all about, so this is clearly on them!

[liminal]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is still one of Zimmy's illusions. This interaction makes little sense from J&J's perspectives, considering they set up the meeting, the location, and failed to say Zimmy would be 'summoned' rather than 'contacted'...they're even speaking like one person.

...cautiously optimistic on this one.

[TBeholder]

Jan 16, 2023 12:33:27 GMT liminal said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this is still one of Zimmy's illusions. This interaction makes little sense from J&J's perspectives, considering they set up the meeting, the location, and failed to say Zimmy would be 'summoned' rather than 'contacted'...they're even speaking like one person.

I can understand them being disoriented, but it’s a bit too much. And with Zimmy things can never be taken for granted, especially after what happened to those elf kids. Zimmy starts playing beheaded chicken, Zimmy vanishes, now they continue playing beheaded chicken.
So, the same suspicion here.

[stef1987]

Jan 16, 2023 8:32:45 GMT basser said:

What is this some switcheroo? Ain't no reason for these two to be acting like weird jerks.

I completely agree.
makes no sense how they're acting now

[kefka]

Red 2.0

[blahzor]

I'm starting to think Annie is Coyote now

[guntherkrieg]

Contrived drama is contrived.

[crater]

Jan 16, 2023 12:33:27 GMT liminal said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this is still one of Zimmy's illusions. This interaction makes little sense from J&J's perspectives, considering they set up the meeting, the location, and failed to say Zimmy would be 'summoned' rather than 'contacted'...they're even speaking like one person.

...cautiously optimistic on this one.

Yeah, it feels like a Zimmy illusion. The next thing Annie should do is see if her touch Boops them. Infact I think it's weird that the only people who have touched each other this entire chapter are zimmy and Gamma

[manabi]

Jan 16, 2023 9:11:04 GMT dortieroo said:

I can get them not being first on the 'Annie would never do that!' wagon since they don't know her especially well anymore and haven't been in close touch with her for some time, but this still feels so... forced. Even if you think she's faking not knowing what's going on, why blame her for contacting Zimmy next to the ocean? Jenny picked that location.

Honestly, nothing Jenny and Jack have done this chapter feels in character for them, and I don't know if I should be waiting for a shoe to drop or if they're just like this now.

The switch happened so fast and happened while they were in contact with Zimmy, that I'm wondering if Zimmy's etheric manipulation powers are the cause of it.  Zimmy's fears that Annie was trying to kill her causing Jenny & Jack to think the same could explain the suddenness of the change.

[wombat]

Before: Annie should really try to talk to these other characters more!
Now: Ooookay, I see why she doesn't.

[pyradonis]

100 quatloos on J&J either being heavily influenced by something, or not being real at all.

[atteSmythe]

Jan 16, 2023 12:53:42 GMT kefka said:

Red 2.0

This. Kind of feels like a Zimmy illusion...but my first thought was Ayilu's dramaverse

[mitten]

I really, really hope this is some kind of illusion or mindcontrol, because otherwise this reaction feels entirely unreasonable and heading into gaslighting territory.

[quinnr]

 

Jenny is so outraged she hasn't moved her facial expression in the last minute. That was about as quickly as "catching up with an old friend" could turn sour. Interested to see where it goes, it does seem a bit of an uncanny reaction as others have pointed out. 

[silicondream]

Jan 16, 2023 10:31:40 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jan 16, 2023 9:44:39 GMT bicarbonat said:

And who's Annie going to call for backup/character witness? Certainly not Kat, who may as well be the antichrist where present company is concerned.

I'd immediately call Kat but not for a character witness. Since it looks like the misunderstanding (if that's what this is) isn't going to be cleared up quickly and this isn't the time to deal with hurt feelings, maybe ignoring the winsome duo and pulling out a cell phone to tell Kat to immediately stop whatever she's doing might help Antimony's credibility more than any argument she could make. 

I'm surprised she hasn't at least tried to contact Renard and have him stop Kat, but maybe the Star Ocean and/or Omega are fritzing out their connection?

[maxptc]

My first instinct was "what they heck you two, why are you suspicious of Annie?"

Looking back now, Annie did suggest the meeting place. She asked Jack to meet her at a star ocean adjacent Cafe or whatever to help her contact Zimmy. They moved outside to get some privacy, but they are still in the meeting area Annie suggested. The idea that Annie isnt responsible for the venue because she wasn't the one who suggested they move outside seems like a reach to me. Obviously Annie didn't plan it and has no secret motives, but we only know that because of our handy dandy reader information. I think people might be getting a little overly critical of Jack and Jenny's reasoning here because we know it to be wrong, but I personally dont blame them or think this is a crazy assumption to make. Annie isn't some becon of trust and righteousness from Jack's perspective, he has legit reasons based on previous interactions with Annie to not fully trust her. She has lied and manipulated him before.

[ghostiet]

Jan 16, 2023 17:19:21 GMT maxptc said:

Annie isn't some becon of trust and righteousness from Jack's perspective, he has legit reasons based on previous interactions with Annie to not fully trust her. She has lied and manipulated him before.

Then why help her at all with no strings attached or vetting? Why agree that Zimmy needs to be found? They knew how dangerous it is to even try and contact Zimmy, they literally tell her she doesn't want to be found and they shouldn't do it lightly, and Jack agrees with her that they're out of other options. Jenny is also the one who leads them to the ritual place and they acknowledge at the beginning that this is close to the star ocean, but only call it a fucked up idea after the spell ends after Zimmy panics that Annie has betrayed her, as if someone implanted the idea.

It's for sure some Zimmy-induced fuckery altering reality, possibly so Annie loses access to the easiest way to contact her. The other option is "Jack and Jenny are utter morons". Tom's handling of this sort of nuanced conflict with Anthony and Red was clumsy as hell, but it wasn't THIS clumsy.

[maxptc]

Jan 16, 2023 18:11:13 GMT ghostiet said:

Jan 16, 2023 17:19:21 GMT maxptc said:

Annie isn't some becon of trust and righteousness from Jack's perspective, he has legit reasons based on previous interactions with Annie to not fully trust her. She has lied and manipulated him before.

Then why help her at all with no strings attached or vetting? Why agree that Zimmy needs to be found? They knew how dangerous it is to even try and contact Zimmy, they literally tell her she doesn't want to be found and they shouldn't do it lightly, and Jack agrees with her that they're out of other options. Jenny is also the one who leads them to the ritual place and they acknowledge at the beginning that this is close to the star ocean, but only call it a fucked up idea after the spell ends after Zimmy panics that Annie has betrayed her, as if someone implanted the idea.

It's for sure some Zimmy-induced fuckery altering reality, possibly so Annie loses access to the easiest way to contact her. The other option is "Jack and Jenny are utter morons". Tom's handling of this sort of nuanced conflict with Anthony and Red was clumsy as hell, but it wasn't THIS clumsy.

Having reasons to doubt Annie doesn't mean that Jack firsts instinct should have been "i cant trust her". Just means that after hearing what he heard, it's reasonable for him to think he and Jenny could have been used, and that the location being part of that set up is possible. He didn't have enough reason to refuse to help all together, heck at the start of the interaction he clearly trusted Annie despite having reasons that would make not trusting her reasonable.


I disagree with the idea that anyone in comic who dislikes or doesn't trust Annie is an idiot, but I understand it. I just don't think Jack or Jenny or Red did anything unreasonable from there perspective.

[mitten]

Jenny is the one who knows how her magic works, though, the expert who is being consulted. If she knew that it's a bad idea to do it in this particular place, I maintain it was her responsibility to say so, and that it's unreasonable to blame Annie for it. And if she didn't know how her own spell would work, and that this place is a bad spot to perform it, then why is Annie expected to know?

The situation feels to me like a person going to a surgeon asking for a particular procedure. The surgeon doesn't inform the patient of the potential reasons why this time there is a higher risk than normal, and then when things go wrong just goes 'Well, clearly you should have known better, it's your own fault.'

Of course plenty of people try to blameshift when they make mistakes - maybe Jenny is intended to come across as unlikable here. If so it worked for me.

[maxptc]

They were operating under the assumption Annie wasn't tricking them until a moment ago. Now that they think they might have been used, they are connecting dots that don't exist. "She wasn't trying to contact Zimmy to warn her, she is helping the Court. That's why she suggested to meet near the light here, and of course she wouldnt tell us she was helping the Court. She knew we were probably concerned about Zimmy already and preyed on our desire to help. She knew somthing would happened near the ocean because she has the court behind her and was counting on me not knowing. They just needed someone who I would use my magic to help to ask me, since they knew i wouldnt help them directly."


We know Annie isn't up to anything and isn't an agent (at least as far as Annie knows) but that doesn't mean other people know that. Heck, we were just speculating that Annie or Kat could be assets without knowing. Other people assuming they are unaware assets instead of court spys would just be weird.

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 16, 2023 17:18:40 GMT silicondream said:

Jan 16, 2023 10:31:40 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I'd immediately call Kat but not for a character witness. Since it looks like the misunderstanding (if that's what this is) isn't going to be cleared up quickly and this isn't the time to deal with hurt feelings, maybe ignoring the winsome duo and pulling out a cell phone to tell Kat to immediately stop whatever she's doing might help Antimony's credibility more than any argument she could make. 

I'm surprised she hasn't at least tried to contact Renard and have him stop Kat, but maybe the Star Ocean and/or Omega are fritzing out their connection?

Maybe? Zeta did complain about the brightness but seemed to understand what they were saying, and if that spell worked from here then I'd think a familiar connection should work well enough too.

There may be virtue in using a cellphone because Jack and Jen can see and hear her using it, the downside being that the Court almost certainly can listen in as well. Kat should trust Antimony enough that Antimony could issue an emergency "freeze in place" warning that's vague enough not to tip off Court monitoring systems, though saying something specific enough to include "computer usage" that would also fool a human eavesdropper might be tricky/risky.  Assuming Antimony doesn't know exactly what Kat is doing at this exact moment in the comic then I think morally the thing to do is stop her the fastest way possible... but it just may not be a case where seconds or minutes make the difference.  Depending on where Renard is relative to Kat I'm unsure which is faster anyway but if clearing up the misunderstanding is more important then a few minutes/seconds then the cellphone may be the way to go. If they see her making the call that should take enough wind out of their sails that Antimony can find space to explain. Antimony appears to care what they think at least enough to want to not be bombarded with accusations, and having them not spreading rumors that she's a Court collaborator who would use and kill supposed friends if her goals require it would probably be good. Maintaining a cooperative relationship would likely be useful, and if cleared up promptly this set of circumstances could actually reinforce it... if Antimony can actually manage that and, of course, assuming there are no hidden motives on the other side.

[blahzor]

Jan 16, 2023 16:17:08 GMT mitten said:

I really, really hope this is some kind of illusion or mindcontrol, because otherwise this reaction feels entirely unreasonable and heading into gaslighting territory.

I mean it's probably Zimmy influence while angry AND being next to the star ocean so it's not in Zimmyverse but I'm "reality"

[Dvandaemon]

Oh no, are we about to witness Annie utterly flounder at defending herself yet again? I can't watch.

Jan 16, 2023 12:33:27 GMT liminal said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this is still one of Zimmy's illusions. This interaction makes little sense from J&J's perspectives, considering they set up the meeting, the location, and failed to say Zimmy would be 'summoned' rather than 'contacted'...they're even speaking like one person.

...cautiously optimistic on this one.

The "how could you say that Zimmy" makes me think so. Seems like one of those things where someone's subconsciously like "this isn't right" but they're already caught in the facade.