[2596] "What is this?"

[arf]

Loup doesn't get it.

Interesting how Annie is rendered in a different style.

[madjack]

Lana's shoulders are still set forward, she's still angry.

Now what is getting Annie down?

[blahzor]

He's too busy looking, keeping focus on the left hand he's not truly seeing what the right is doing

[aline]

Mar 11, 2022 8:24:49 GMT madjack said:

Now what is getting Annie down?

I'd guess Coyote's announcement that he'd force her to kill Loup (and by extension Ysengrin and Coyote) is on her mind.
There's also the Court's plans to pack up their things and leave behind people like her.

[ctso74]

She's looking into the sky, and wishing she could get "We Don't Talk About Bruno" out of her head. Somethings are beyond our power, Carver.
In my head canon, due to the familiar connection, it's driving Rey crazy.

[fia]

I suspect she saw Loup and is trying to keep it cool, figure out what to do.

[pyradonis]

I don't know what I would find funnier for the next page, either

JERREK/LOUP: Uh... hello, Annie.

ANNIE: Hello, Loup.

JERREK/LOUP:

or

JERREK/LOUP: Uh...hello, Annie.

ANNIE: Hello.

JERREK/LOUP: You seem to be glum, what is the matter?

ANNIE: It's just that I gotta kill Loup, it's sort of pulling me down, you know?

JERREK/LOUP:

[drmemory]

"I spot my prey."

How romantic! Well, for Loup.

[bedinsis]

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

[Gemminie]

Loup/Jerrek reacts internally to what he's seen Kat do. My guess was correct – when she does these things, he sees nothing in the Ether, because it's all technological. He's wrong about what he thinks he's seeing, though ... she didn't actually make the New People; she just made new bodies for existing robots. She isn't forming things out of thin air; they're being manufactured out of raw materials at a remote location and then transported to her. And she's moving the substance of the Forest by discovering that it's made of the same primordial ylem that the substance of the Court is made out of and using devices that affect it.

Loup thinks perhaps there's more to Kat than he can see, which is certainly true. He wonders then whether this is what Coyote wanted him to learn. Is it? I don't know.

Then he sees Annie sitting apart and thinking, with an expression on her face that doesn't look happy. She's not paying attention to her friend and doesn't seem happy about her success. Why not? Perhaps because she knows what has to happen. She might be thinking about having to kill Loup with the dagger, not knowing that Loup is right here. For some reason he aims to set aside what Coyote wanted and his confusion about what Kat can do in favor of ... what? He says, "I spot my prey," but in precisely what way does he plan to prey on Annie? Is he going to literally attack her? Or is he actually going to attempt subtlety, insinuating himself into a friendship with her so he can observe her and eventually find out where the dagger is?

[Runningflame]

Well that's not creepy at all.

[mturtle7]

Mar 11, 2022 21:00:51 GMT Gemminie said:

the same primordial ylem that the substance of the Court is made out of

Well, I learned a new word today! 10/10 best use of "ylem".

[drmemory]

Mar 11, 2022 21:00:51 GMT Gemminie said:

Loup/Jerrek reacts internally to what he's seen Kat do. My guess was correct – when she does these things, he sees nothing in the Ether, because it's all technological. He's wrong about what he thinks he's seeing, though ... she didn't actually make the New People; she just made new bodies for existing robots. She isn't forming things out of thin air; they're being manufactured out of raw materials at a remote location and then transported to her. And she's moving the substance of the Forest by discovering that it's made of the same primordial ylem that the substance of the Court is made out of and using devices that affect it.

Loup thinks perhaps there's more to Kat than he can see, which is certainly true. He wonders then whether this is what Coyote wanted him to learn. Is it? I don't know.

Then he sees Annie sitting apart and thinking, with an expression on her face that doesn't look happy. She's not paying attention to her friend and doesn't seem happy about her success. Why not? Perhaps because she knows what has to happen. She might be thinking about having to kill Loup with the dagger, not knowing that Loup is right here. For some reason he aims to set aside what Coyote wanted and his confusion about what Kat can do in favor of ... what? He says, "I spot my prey," but in precisely what way does he plan to prey on Annie? Is he going to literally attack her? Or is he actually going to attempt subtlety, insinuating himself into a friendship with her so he can observe her and eventually find out where the dagger is?

Agree with your first two paragraphs, including the question of whether this is what Coyote wants him to learn.  My guess is - not exactly but sort of?  Like I'm thinking Coyote wants him to learn that humans can accomplish a lot, even without the ether - not only Kat.  Kat is a spectacular example but not the only smart person around!  Loup is totally me-centric, and figures anything not "me" (well, him) can't be important.  Loup, what a fool!

So my best guess is that Coyote wants Loup to grow a little, perhaps gain a little insight.  Wisdom.

I'm hoping he can hang in there and pretend to be subtle a bit longer.  Maybe even try (politely) to get a date, or at least ask her to a meal?  The thing is, even that could go wrong... Remember the "crush their little egos" poster, regarding what you are supposed to do if a robot falls in love with you?  I don't think Annie is capable of being that mean, but also doubt she'd go for it.  But then again, maybe she would.

More likely though, he won't get that far.  We can see that he's still the same internally: angry at the world, frustrated that it won't conform to his expectations, and totally dismissive of anything he doesn't understand.  I fear we're counting down to Loup's freak-out and ultimately his self-destruction.

Oh, not sure what Annie is thinking of - she tends to take everyone's problems on her narrow little shoulders.  It's certainly possible that she knows that is Loup, but also possible she's worrying about any of a fairly long list of other concerns.  Worry about the plan to have her kill Loup is certainly towards the top of that list.

[TBeholder]

Mar 11, 2022 21:00:51 GMT Gemminie said:

Loup/Jerrek reacts internally to what he's seen Kat do. My guess was correct – when she does these things, he sees nothing in the Ether, because it's all technological.
…
And she's moving the substance of the Forest by discovering that it's made of the same primordial ylem that the substance of the Court is made out of and using devices that affect it.

He doesn't see what he expects to see: an external force being applied the way Loup or his predecessors would. Because Kat only wrangles those weird arcane-nanite things and etheric heavy lifting is done by them. And they are already everywhere.
The reverse analogy would be Kat seeing mild fog suddenly thicken and swirl into distinct shapes without a noticeable wind, when someone made its particles move this way via etheric forces. She would be equally bewildered (until she got used to these things, that is… at very least an involuntary excursion to Zimmyburg may desensitize one to weirdness).

He says, "I spot my prey," but in precisely what way does he plan to prey on Annie?

☐ With great patience.
☐ Vewy, vewy cawefully!
☐ Rawr!
☐ The panel with Annie is misleading, he wants to wrest something from Renard and she is but a landmark in this chase (not likely).
☐ . . . (write in)

[madjack]

Mar 12, 2022 2:59:10 GMT drmemory said:

I don't think Annie is capable of being that mean, but also doubt she'd go for it.  But then again, maybe she would.

Annie is absolutely capable of being that cruel. She's grown a lot, and it would definitely take a lot more to get her to that stage, but if anyone could find a way to bring that to the surface, it'd be Loup.

I wonder if the conversation with Lana earlier in the chapter might bring about a 'no dating NPs' attitude, although Annie is the only one of the gang who knows of the NPs existence and isn't really attached.

[antiyonder]

So still a more wholesome love story in the making than Twilight?

[blahzor]

What if a go-d believes in another go-d?
That's 2 times the infinite power. That's like pineapples + pizza

[guntherkrieg]

Mar 11, 2022 20:44:56 GMT bedinsis said:

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

I think it's another iteration of the "people are either rescuers, abusers or ineffectual bystanders" theme that Tom has been writing for 17 years.

[drmemory]

Here's a thought. Loup said "and now she moves the very substance of the forest as I can". We know, and he doesn't, that she actually used her computer to do this. Remote manufacturing (3D printing, the next generation), then teleportation. She uses her little magic keyboard to do this, that nobody else can use, and Loup has no clue what that thing is - he thinks in terms of personal power, only.

Anyway. The thought. Kat's computer is getting darned powerful, and is hooked up to the arrow. So in effect, maybe it IS using the ether to do some of this stuff! How much of Kat's abilities are in fact due to the arrow? If not directly powered by the arrow, drawing on it to do some of its tricks, she certainly learned a lot from it - how to make other devices that are effectively golems.

Also, what other really powerful computers have we heard of lately? Omega, you say? People talk about Kat using her abilities to create the seed Bismuth and take it back in time to start the court. Fine, that could happen, no arguments here. But is her computer Omega? Or if not, is it talking to Omega, or maybe taken over by it? I'm suggesting that instead of creating the seed Bismuth, maybe she created Omega.

This would make her responsible for events but in a very different way.

[speedwell]

Mar 12, 2022 14:29:05 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Mar 11, 2022 20:44:56 GMT bedinsis said:

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

I think it's another iteration of the "people are either rescuers, abusers or ineffectual bystanders" theme that Tom has been writing for 17 years.

We do not need you to save our social morality. If you resent the comic so much that you have lost your sense of perspective, it may be time for you to take a step back and a deep breath and find a cause in which you can do some tangible good.

[mturtle7]

Mar 12, 2022 14:29:05 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Mar 11, 2022 20:44:56 GMT bedinsis said:

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

I think it's another iteration of the "people are either rescuers, abusers or ineffectual bystanders" theme that Tom has been writing for 17 years.

Ok, like, in all seriousness...my memory isn't too exact, but I feel like I've seen you complain about precisely this sort of thing before, many times, possibly for more than a few years? If this has really been annoying you that consistently for so long...have you considered just cutting this webcomic out of your life altogether? I've done that for more than few webcomics which started going in directions I couldn't accept, and while sometimes it was hard to rid myself of the habit, I really think it was a good decision every time. There are plenty of fish in the sea!

I mean, you can keep going if you want. I'm honestly not trying to kick you out of the forum or anything. I'm just starting to worry that you're only tormenting yourself like this.

EDIT: And then it occurred to me I don't have to rely on my vague impressions of your general presence on this forum, I can just scroll through your post history via your profile page! My apologies: I can actually a pretty even mix of praise for and complaints about the comic there, which explains why you'd stay with the comic a little better. I guess the complaints just stuck in my memory more.

[blahzor]

Mar 12, 2022 14:56:04 GMT drmemory said:

Here's a thought. Loup said "and now she moves the very substance of the forest as I can". We know, and he doesn't, that she actually used her computer to do this. Remote manufacturing (3D printing, the next generation), then teleportation. She uses her little magic keyboard to do this, that nobody else can use, and Loup has no clue what that thing is - he thinks in terms of personal power, only.

Anyway. The thought. Kat's computer is getting darned powerful, and is hooked up to the arrow. So in effect, maybe it IS using the ether to do some of this stuff! How much of Kat's abilities are in fact due to the arrow? If not directly powered by the arrow, drawing on it to do some of its tricks, she certainly learned a lot from it - how to make other devices that are effectively golems.

Also, what other really powerful computers have we heard of lately? Omega, you say? People talk about Kat using her abilities to create the seed Bismuth and take it back in time to start the court. Fine, that could happen, no arguments here. But is her computer Omega? Or if not, is it talking to Omega, or maybe taken over by it? I'm suggesting that instead of creating the seed Bismuth, maybe she created Omega.

This would make her responsible for events but in a very different way.

But her and the computer is basically one in the same in terms of the ethers contract system and maybe even the familiar system that Rey is now under and why he can use some of Annie's fire abilities. Kat is using any ability of the computer and she's constantly upgrading it, it would seems which indirectly increases her powers

[aline]

Mar 12, 2022 14:29:05 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Mar 11, 2022 20:44:56 GMT bedinsis said:

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

I think it's another iteration of the "people are either rescuers, abusers or ineffectual bystanders" theme that Tom has been writing for 17 years.

That's not a "theme".

[pyradonis]

Mar 11, 2022 20:44:56 GMT bedinsis said:

So we follow up the instance where the elf boys potentially put Lana in danger with Jerrek treating Annie as a prey?

I hope this is leading up to some thematic point.

I'm personally hoping it's just an attempt to make Loup's thoughts less human and more like those of a wolf/dog creature, and it's just his way to call his goals/targets "prey" when those are living beings. But even then introducing this peculiar choice of words right after the former scene would be at least an unfortunate choice.

Mar 12, 2022 3:41:26 GMT madjack said:

I wonder if the conversation with Lana earlier in the chapter might bring about a 'no dating NPs' attitude, although Annie is the only one of the gang who knows of the NPs existence and isn't really attached.

That would be quite hypocritical, considering the lengths she, her father, and her best friend went to in order to make it possible for a human and a robot -> NP to date and leave the Court to live outside as a couple. That is what the first NP body of them all was created for, in fact.

[madjack]

Mar 13, 2022 12:21:22 GMT pyradonis said:

Mar 12, 2022 3:41:26 GMT madjack said:

I wonder if the conversation with Lana earlier in the chapter might bring about a 'no dating NPs' attitude, although Annie is the only one of the gang who knows of the NPs existence and isn't really attached.

That would be quite hypocritical, considering the lengths she, her father, and her best friend went to in order to make it possible for a human and a robot -> NP to date and leave the Court to live outside as a couple. That is what the first NP body of them all was created for, in fact.

Going to disagree, Juliette and Arthur are the exception that proves the rule, their relationship was already established over several years. The others won't have that same experience with people, as Lana demonstrated.

[aline]

Mar 13, 2022 14:17:18 GMT madjack said:

Mar 13, 2022 12:21:22 GMT pyradonis said:

That would be quite hypocritical, considering the lengths she, her father, and her best friend went to in order to make it possible for a human and a robot -> NP to date and leave the Court to live outside as a couple. That is what the first NP body of them all was created for, in fact.

Going to disagree, Juliette and Arthur are the exception that proves the rule, their relationship was already established over several years. The others won't have that same experience with people, as Lana demonstrated.

They are not an "exception" and there is no reason to take away NP's agency when it comes to relationships. What they need is information and context. They need sex ed. They need conversations with mentors. Not a bunch of 16yo overcontrolling helicopter moms. 

[blahzor]

Mar 13, 2022 15:16:33 GMT aline said:

Mar 13, 2022 14:17:18 GMT madjack said:

Going to disagree, Juliette and Arthur are the exception that proves the rule, their relationship was already established over several years. The others won't have that same experience with people, as Lana demonstrated.

They are not an "exception" and there is no reason to take away NP's agency when it comes to relationships. What they need is information and context. They need sex ed. They need conversations with mentors. Not a bunch of 16yo overcontrolling helicopter moms. 

They got their cult leader uncle like figure to teach them during the cpu to brain transfer

[pyradonis]

Mar 13, 2022 14:17:18 GMT madjack said:

Mar 13, 2022 12:21:22 GMT pyradonis said:

That would be quite hypocritical, considering the lengths she, her father, and her best friend went to in order to make it possible for a human and a robot -> NP to date and leave the Court to live outside as a couple. That is what the first NP body of them all was created for, in fact.

Going to disagree, Juliette and Arthur are the exception that proves the rule, their relationship was already established over several years. The others won't have that same experience with people, as Lana demonstrated.

I don't see why between Lana and Arthur, one of them would have to be more representative of NPs than the other. Maybe Lana is the exception, believing she already knows all there is to know about being human from the library's teen rated section.

Yes, many of the robots have been depicted as being childish, goofy and (from the point of view of an adult human) immature. But those were usually those that have few interaction with humans. Those who work closely together with humans seem to be much more mature.

[madjack]

Mar 13, 2022 15:16:33 GMT aline said:

Mar 13, 2022 14:17:18 GMT madjack said:

Going to disagree, Juliette and Arthur are the exception that proves the rule, their relationship was already established over several years. The others won't have that same experience with people, as Lana demonstrated.

Not a bunch of 16yo overcontrolling helicopter moms. 

Well when you put it that way...

[maxptc]

Kind unrelated to just this page, but the chapter has been making me think about it. Are the new peoples bodies physical age correlated to the age they were as robots? Arthurs new body is an adult and he is an older robot, and we've seen adult and teenage looking new people, but no toddlers, young kids, middle age or old people yet. I get that most people wouldnt want to start in an older body particularly if they age organically. So is age another choice? The options we saw in the trasfer were all pretty similar age wise from what I can tell, so maybe it suggests or enforces age in some way. If so, what are the determining factors? If you're under a certain age do you just end up as a teenager? Does it consider maturity or emotional health? That seems crazy, but so does the possibility of age being a choice, you'd never know if the adult looking being you're talking to is really a 3 year old robot that's still learning or a if a random kid is really 300 years old. I mean the simplest soultion is that its a nearish age approximation, and that we haven't seen any super new or super old robots transformed, but I don't know if that fits. I kinda found robot age a confusing topic before this new body situation, but it seems extra relevant now.