|
|
Post by mochakimono on Jan 10, 2022 21:37:33 GMT
Also... damn, Arizona is ugly! When she opens her mouth to shout, she looks like an angry muppet!. It's a pretty unflattering expression and angle. And it isn't helped by her rather unflattering haircut, but I suppose it should be obvious she hasn't seen the barber, or else she'd have known about the robots getting new bodies before now! A girl getting a haircut truly is the path to unlocking the secrets of the Court. |
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Jan 10, 2022 22:14:30 GMT
Under no circumstances can this person be allowed to acquire etheric abilities. I've read enough Spider-Man comics to know. Trying to figure your reference. Norman Osborn trying to get ultimate power from the 98 story Gathering of Five/Final Chapter? |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 10, 2022 22:46:27 GMT
You know, if Aata is similar to a Bodhisattva, he got his powers thanks to training and meditation... technically, anybody willing to put the same effort as he did could do the same.... I suspect that becoming a Bodhisattva is a bit like training with a blinker stone, in that while it does require training and hard work, there are also some who couldn't develop the same abilities, no matter how hard they try, simply due to the way their brains are wired. Really, it's a lot like plenty of mundane skills in that way! ...Which leads us back to the point which Renard is making, about jealousy... Well, even if that is so, I bet Arizona wouldn't be able to learn to create technology like Kat, or to use a bow as well as Steadman, or to become as good a fencer as Jeanne. What's the difference between lacking talent to learn etheric abilities, and lacking talent for maths, science, engineering, programming, music, singing, poetry, painting, sports, martial arts or any other skill...?
If you are talented enough you can learn. If you aren't talented enough to learn despite all your hard work... sorry, life is unfair, like Renard said...
|
|
|
|
Post by aline on Jan 10, 2022 22:47:14 GMT
WTF. People being able to do stuff other people aren't able to do describes the entirety of human diversity. Well... in this case its more like some people are able to cause a massive destruction of a city enraging some cannibalistic trickster deity, and you can only stand and watch as the world burn around You. Guess she might feel slightly disgruntled. If mindlessly destroying cities makes things unfair, then we've got to be fair and add earthquakes, storms and the like to the list of unfair things, no? But since they follow the laws of nature I guess those are fair game. Same with war bombings or nuclear disasters, after all, it kills people but not physics, welp But more seriously, most etheric creatures we've met have limited abilities, and I have a hard time understanding how tree elves making tree houses somehow deprives humans of anything. But the shadow men don't think any use of etheric power is fine, hence the hilariously insane situation that Aata banned himself and is now having a Tragic Moment for saving someone's life. And let's not forget people like Eglamore, or Kat's father, or even Kat herself, who have no etheric affinity but still use a few etheric tricks to great benefit. How is the ether unfair to them? The shadow men at this point feel more like a cult that invented a new kind of sin than an organization having anything to do with science or rational thought. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jan 11, 2022 0:09:34 GMT
Incidentally, the revelation of what the Court's goal is - to destroy the ether Where was that said? On this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2569The part about the Court's plan being to "start anew without the Ether". |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 11, 2022 1:13:27 GMT
Also... damn, Arizona is ugly! When she opens her mouth to shout, she looks like an angry muppet!. It's a pretty unflattering expression and angle. And it isn't helped by her rather unflattering haircut, but I suppose it should be obvious she hasn't seen the barber, or else she'd have known about the robots getting new bodies before now! A girl getting a haircut truly is the path to unlocking the secrets of the Court. Controversial take: This whole chapter I've been thinking that Shell would've been scouted for modeling work if she'd been raised outside the Court. Her limb proportions are great and her nose would be striking and distinctive if shot from the right angles and lit right, making it easy to remember her face in a crowded field. That plus the right makeup, clothes, and a 'do that frames her face properly would probably make her pics stunning. She's even got an easy-to-pronounce-and-remember name. Which reminds me, those heels she's wearing are really high. Must've been a decent walk to get here from the L. Even if she's fully used to them (which may mean she's had some prep already) and she's enjoying wearing stuff that she couldn't when she was in MiB uniform, I figure she would've chosen more comfortable footwear unless there was someone she was meeting she wanted to impress. |
|
|
|
Post by maxptc on Jan 11, 2022 1:41:13 GMT
Well... in this case its more like some people are able to cause a massive destruction of a city enraging some cannibalistic trickster deity, and you can only stand and watch as the world burn around You. Guess she might feel slightly disgruntled. If mindlessly destroying cities makes things unfair, then we've got to be fair and add earthquakes, storms and the like to the list of unfair things, no? But since they follow the laws of nature I guess those are fair game. Same with war bombings or nuclear disasters, after all, it kills people but not physics, welp But more seriously, most etheric creatures we've met have limited abilities, and I have a hard time understanding how tree elves making tree houses somehow deprives humans of anything. But the shadow men don't think any use of etheric power is fine, hence the hilariously insane situation that Aata banned himself and is now having a Tragic Moment for saving someone's life. And let's not forget people like Eglamore, or Kat's father, or even Kat herself, who have no etheric affinity but still use a few etheric tricks to great benefit. How is the ether unfair to them? The shadow men at this point feel more like a cult that invented a new kind of sin than an organization having anything to do with science or rational thought. I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. I mean I disagree with all those to some degree, but I am more curious if I'm going off on a tagent based on my lack of understanding a point, which wouldn't be a first for me. Because it seems like your point is a variety of "just because life isn't fair you can't take things other people have to make it more fair, more so when life is unfair in other ways". If the Shadowmen belives the ether system is corrupt or inherently unjust, that's enough of a good reason to start trying to fix the problem. Should they bully everyone with magic? No, but it doesn't seem like they ever have. They let magic people in and have left them alone, albeit monitored. They have no responsibility to worry about war or weather, even if those are equally big or bigger problems. Thats like saying why care about homelessness when illness and war are a thing. If it turns out the methods or cost to achieve your goal is an issue that's one thing, I just don't see why the Shadowmen and the Court have earned such complete distrust. Why shouldn't they be researching and utilizing ether to achive goals, with a promise of personal accountability due to how dangerous ether is? Sure storywise it seems like the plan is gonna kill everyone, but I still don't think the shadowmen intend or are hoping for that. They arent evil for what they are trying to achieve, even if they are wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by stevecharb on Jan 11, 2022 2:55:02 GMT
Under no circumstances can this person be allowed to acquire etheric abilities. I've read enough Spider-Man comics to know. Trying to figure your reference. Norman Osborn trying to get ultimate power from the 98 story Gathering of Five/Final Chapter? I was thinking more along the lines of, "this is the kind of irresponsible thing a forgettable one-off villain says in their origin story." I grew up reading Ultimate but mostly I'm thinking of my dad's collection from the 60's and 70's, and he never could afford the big name villain issues. |
|
|
|
Post by sleepcircle on Jan 11, 2022 5:24:18 GMT
I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. I mean I disagree with all those to some degree, but I am more curious if I'm going off on a tagent based on my lack of understanding a point, which wouldn't be a first for me. Because it seems like your point is a variety of "just because life isn't fair you can't take things other people have to make it more fair, more so when life is unfair in other ways". If the Shadowmen belives the ether system is corrupt or inherently unjust, that's enough of a good reason to start trying to fix the problem. Should they bully everyone with magic? No, but it doesn't seem like they ever have. They let magic people in and have left them alone, albeit monitored. They have no responsibility to worry about war or weather, even if those are equally big or bigger problems. Thats like saying why care about homelessness when illness and war are a thing. If it turns out the methods or cost to achieve your goal is an issue that's one thing, I just don't see why the Shadowmen and the Court have earned such complete distrust. Why shouldn't they be researching and utilizing ether to achive goals, with a promise of personal accountability due to how dangerous ether is? Sure storywise it seems like the plan is gonna kill everyone, but I still don't think the shadowmen intend or are hoping for that. They arent evil for what they are trying to achieve, even if they are wrong. on the other hand having special powers doesn't get you out of being tortured for 10 years by the shadow men as they run experiments on you if it's "for the crime of murder," when renard first possessed the dude, he didn't actually know it'd kill him edit: although in fairness to aata's point, coyote absolutely did know, and was ok with letting it happen. but in fairness to coyote--or rather, to everyone else in the ether--the shadow men seem to have the same "well it's ok if some pawns get killed in order for our goals to be achieved" attitude. |
|
|
|
Post by mochakimono on Jan 11, 2022 6:21:31 GMT
It's a pretty unflattering expression and angle. And it isn't helped by her rather unflattering haircut, but I suppose it should be obvious she hasn't seen the barber, or else she'd have known about the robots getting new bodies before now! A girl getting a haircut truly is the path to unlocking the secrets of the Court. Controversial take: This whole chapter I've been thinking that Shell would've been scouted for modeling work if she'd been raised outside the Court. Her limb proportions are great and her nose would be striking and distinctive if shot from the right angles and lit right, making it easy to remember her face in a crowded field. That plus the right makeup, clothes, and a 'do that frames her face properly would probably make her pics stunning. She's even got an easy-to-pronounce-and-remember name. Which reminds me, those heels she's wearing are really high. Must've been a decent walk to get here from the L. Even if she's fully used to them (which may mean she's had some prep already) and she's enjoying wearing stuff that she couldn't when she was in MiB uniform, I figure she would've chosen more comfortable footwear unless there was someone she was meeting she wanted to impress. Oh, I agree, and I unironically LOVE her nose. Big beaks are my favorite facial feature. Weird, I know. But the mullet-thing she's got going on is not working... Speaking of this outfit, has it been clarified yet why she was wandering into robot land in a chic getup? Just out for a stroll and coincidentally bumbled into the New People potluck, or was she summoned there under deceptive pretenses? |
|
|
|
Post by sebastian on Jan 11, 2022 8:28:52 GMT
Yeah, we're doing X-Men, yay. What people seem often to not mention when they talk about x-men is that people don't fear and hate mutants just because they are different, they fear and hate mutants because they can be and often are dangerous. We have mutants that can litterally change the rules of nature on a whim, can control weather on a large scale, Professor X is the greatest telepath in the world, He can posses and mind control people even at a distance (IIRC he did mind-control the President of the United States in one of the movies) and most people can't do a thing about that. How it is rational not be terrified by powers like those? But noooo, it is just basic jealousy.  Thank you Rey. This is such a stupid point of view from Shell. So what, if you aren't intelligent, it means you can kill all the intelligent people? Not everyone is equally sporty, or musically gifted, or artistic. And that's fine. It would be a very boring world if everyone had identical talents. OTOH, if someone is more sporty, more musical or more artistically gifted than the average there is little risk for him to destroy your house/town/planet on a whim. With etheric powers that is a distinct possibilty, and of late more than just a possibility. |
|
|
|
Post by philman on Jan 11, 2022 9:22:35 GMT
Exactly, wealth can be redistributed, etheric talents cannot. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to be be annoyed at being accused of jealousy for wondering about the dangers of etheric beings such as Coyote just saying "trust me" when asked if that unequal power will ever be misused. I am unsure if the Court wants to be the power with the boot on the neck of reality, or are just very worried about that power existing unchecked. Barring the "strawman has a point", I'd say it would be easier to side with the Court if the ones currently being referred to had varying degrees of morals and some weren't involved with treating other people horribly. I mean, the court includes both the Shadow men, but also the Donlans, Jones, and many others we empathise with. We've shown a variety of different people there, although we aren't aware of their opinions on this big plan the Court has. Etheric beings are hardly morally unambiguous either, possibly even moreso than the Court. We've seen Coyote use his powers to torture people (Ysengrin) for his own amusement and goals many a time. |
|
|
|
Post by Per on Jan 11, 2022 11:59:05 GMT
I don't see an implication of "destroying the ether". We've been told repeatedly they plan to "leave" and go "far away", apparently to a place/plane that works differently. Myself I honestly don't know enough about the Gunnerworld to tell whether "redistribution of wealth" or "kneecapping" is a good metaphor for Shell's world view if any, but most of the forum's speculationers seem to have run far ahead with the latter. |
|
|
|
Post by mochakimono on Jan 11, 2022 12:21:52 GMT
They're putting chemicals in the water to make the freakin' faeries mortal!
More seriously, mostly the implication derives from the fact that you cannot travel far enough on Earth to simply escape the reach of powerful enough Etheric beings. Coyote crossed the water to get here, so there's no reason to believe that just packing up and going away is sufficient to evade Coyote-tier beings from following them back across any other ocean in response. Therefore, if they truly wish to be free of the influence of the Ether, they would need to wholly suppress or erase it (or those who make use of it). Otherwise their efforts would be for naught. Since they've been tampering with siphoning that energy out of the environment and now of a god himself, it isn't a terribly ludicrous assumption to make that their goals might include a vaster application of that technology.
|
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jan 11, 2022 12:51:37 GMT
I still get the impression from all of this that the Court's objections to the ether is "it's scientifically impossible", and that the fact that etheric beings abuse their power is secondary. It threatens their theories about how the universe works, and so they want to get rid of it to keep it from frustrating them.
|
|
|
|
Post by arf on Jan 11, 2022 13:41:34 GMT
Shell has always struck me as insecure (a minor cog overcompensating with officious pomposity)
so this 'unfair' viewpoint definitely feels like it's coming from her rather the Court.
She's only stepped into centre stage in the last three chapters, and, without Aata as a foil, she's unloading her hangups in a rush. Bound to be some unpleasant baggage involved.
Wonder how she regards Juliet and Arthur's relationship.
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 11, 2022 14:36:28 GMT
Speaking of this outfit, has it been clarified yet why she was wandering into robot land in a chic getup? Just out for a stroll and coincidentally bumbled into the New People potluck, or was she summoned there under deceptive pretenses? Not sure if she was heading somewhere else but she came to Kat's lab, could mean she came to see Kat and/or Antimony since Antimony could also be found there. She didn't go to either of their houses so perhaps it's something that requires privacy. She came dressed up so maybe she wants to impress one or both girls. Main thing we know about Shell is that she just quit the Shadow Men because Aata got booted for using etheric powers. Kat has etheric tech, Antimony has firepower, maybe Shell's here to recruit for Shadow Men II, Electric Boogaloo (now with etheric powered agents). Who knows, maybe the Shadow Men got started in a similar fashion a generation or two back when some romantic materialists got together to do secret stuff. Juliette would be a boon for a new organization since with her they've got the old Shadow Men infiltrated. The NPCs aren't bad either. |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 11, 2022 14:50:42 GMT
Yeah, we're doing X-Men, yay. What people seem often to not mention when they talk about x-men is that people don't fear and hate mutants just because they are different, they fear and hate mutants because they can be and often are dangerous. We have mutants that can litterally change the rules of nature on a whim, can control weather on a large scale, Professor X is the greatest telepath in the world, He can posses and mind control people even at a distance (IIRC he did mind-control the President of the United States in one of the movies) and most people can't do a thing about that. How it is rational not be terrified by powers like those? But noooo, it is just basic jealousy.  Thank you Rey. This is such a stupid point of view from Shell. So what, if you aren't intelligent, it means you can kill all the intelligent people? Not everyone is equally sporty, or musically gifted, or artistic. And that's fine. It would be a very boring world if everyone had identical talents. OTOH, if someone is more sporty, more musical or more artistically gifted than the average there is little risk for him to destroy your house/town/planet on a whim. With etheric powers that is a distinct possibilty, and of late more than just a possibility. People who can use the Ether like Anja can use magitech to grant some of that power to people who can't. You can use the Ether to defend against the Ether. But the Shadow Men reject those people and those technologies. |
|
|
|
Post by csj on Jan 11, 2022 15:44:47 GMT
is this the incredibles
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jan 11, 2022 17:17:16 GMT
on the other hand having special powers doesn't get you out of being tortured for 10 years by the shadow men as they run experiments on you if it's "for the crime of murder," when renard first possessed the dude, he didn't actually know it'd kill him Oh, he couldn't be sure, but he had a pretty good idea it would. If I get handed a gun and proceed to shoot a couple animals which then all die, it's not exactly far-fetched to believe the same would happen to a human. They're putting chemicals in the water to make the freakin' faeries mortal! More seriously, mostly the implication derives from the fact that you cannot travel far enough on Earth to simply escape the reach of powerful enough Etheric beings. Coyote crossed the water to get here, so there's no reason to believe that just packing up and going away is sufficient to evade Coyote-tier beings from following them back across any other ocean in response. Therefore, if they truly wish to be free of the influence of the Ether, they would need to wholly suppress or erase it (or those who make use of it). Otherwise their efforts would be for naught. Since they've been tampering with siphoning that energy out of the environment and now of a god himself, it isn't a terribly ludicrous assumption to make that their goals might include a vaster application of that technology. Then maybe the place they are planning to move to isn't on Earth at all. Remember the previous generation of Court kids already built rockets to transport satellites into orbit. And are those huge habitats where plants are grown inside buildings really only for decontamination purposes, or also to test how to build artificial environments? |
|
|
|
Post by mochakimono on Jan 11, 2022 20:34:28 GMT
Huh! That's a really intriguing point. Maybe those old chapters with the training sims IN SPAAAAACE were a lot more on-the-nose in their intended purpose than initially assumed? Wrap your low-grav obstacle courses in an air of silly old cinema camp, and kids might miss the part where they're being prepared to jump around in low-grav...
|
|
|
|
Post by rylfrazier on Jan 11, 2022 21:46:10 GMT
I think it's interesting that Shell can (accurately) see that some people having magic abilities and other not is "unfair" but not how similar that is to how some people have more money, or are taller, or are smarter, etc.
I doubt Aata's issue with the ether is "unfairness" probably his would be more connected to trying to created a harmonious universe and being unable to really push that goal forward as long as the ether remains an x-factor in every calculation
|
|
|
|
Post by lurkerbot on Jan 12, 2022 0:08:55 GMT
Then maybe the place they are planning to move to isn't on Earth at all. Remember the previous generation of Court kids already built rockets to transport satellites into orbit. And are those huge habitats where plants are grown inside buildings really only for decontamination purposes, or also to test how to build artificial environments? An intriguing possibility, which brings to my mind some of the more otherworldly visuals in the treatise page at the end of Volume 7. |
|
|
|
Post by King Mir on Jan 12, 2022 5:59:23 GMT
OTOH, if someone is more sporty, more musical or more artistically gifted than the average there is little risk for him to destroy your house/town/planet on a whim. With etheric powers that is a distinct possibilty, and of late more than just a possibility. Gunnercrigg Court isn't a superhero comic, and the either does not work like that. Yes their are powerful being like Gods, but their powers and natures are balanced because their power stems from humanity's opinion of nature at large. I still get the impression from all of this that the Court's objections to the ether is "it's scientifically impossible", and that the fact that etheric beings abuse their power is secondary. It threatens their theories about how the universe works, and so they want to get rid of it to keep it from frustrating them. Yeah, this has been a recursing theme for much longer. It feels like "It's not made of atoms therefore I hate it" to me. I think it's interesting that Shell can (accurately) see that some people having magic abilities and other not is "unfair" but not how similar that is to how some people have more money, or are taller, or are smarter, etc. I doubt Aata's issue with the ether is "unfairness" probably his would be more connected to trying to created a harmonious universe and being unable to really push that goal forward as long as the ether remains an x-factor in every calculation It's a good point that Aata's position may different than the version Shell understands. Shell is young and naive. |
|
|
|
Post by aline on Jan 12, 2022 8:24:39 GMT
If mindlessly destroying cities makes things unfair, then we've got to be fair and add earthquakes, storms and the like to the list of unfair things, no? But since they follow the laws of nature I guess those are fair game. Same with war bombings or nuclear disasters, after all, it kills people but not physics, welp But more seriously, most etheric creatures we've met have limited abilities, and I have a hard time understanding how tree elves making tree houses somehow deprives humans of anything. But the shadow men don't think any use of etheric power is fine, hence the hilariously insane situation that Aata banned himself and is now having a Tragic Moment for saving someone's life. And let's not forget people like Eglamore, or Kat's father, or even Kat herself, who have no etheric affinity but still use a few etheric tricks to great benefit. How is the ether unfair to them? The shadow men at this point feel more like a cult that invented a new kind of sin than an organization having anything to do with science or rational thought. I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. My point is that I don't understand what makes the ether inherently unfair. The assumption seems to be that a world with ether in it is inherently more unfair than a ether-free world like ours. That's what Shell is saying. I dispute that because the laws of physics aren't "fair" either. Yes, strictly speaking they apply the same way to everyone, but outside of a lab with controlled conditions, the laws a physics will still cause disasters that blindly kill some people and not others. I don't see why an ether-free world should be more fair than a world with ether. It would be one thing if they were talking only about super powerful creatures like Loup and saying "we can't deal with that" but they think things like Anja's computer or Eglamore's wards, or the elves' tree magic are unfair too and shouldn't exist, I just don't see any logic in that. Why not? |
|
|
|
Post by theonethatgotaway on Jan 12, 2022 9:08:27 GMT
I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. My point is that I don't understand what makes the ether inherently unfair. The assumption seems to be that a world with ether in it is inherently more unfair than a ether-free world like ours. That's what Shell is saying. I dispute that because the laws of physics aren't "fair" either. Yes, strictly speaking they apply the same way to everyone, but outside of a lab with controlled conditions, the laws a physics will still cause disasters that blindly kill some people and not others. I don't see why an ether-free world should be more fair than a world with ether. It would be one thing if they were talking only about super powerful creatures like Loup and saying "we can't deal with that" but they think things like Anja's computer or Eglamore's wards, or the elves' tree magic are unfair too and shouldn't exist, I just don't see any logic in that. Why not? You have a computer and I have an abacus. I know exactly how my abacus works, and I can do pretty big calculations on it. I have NO idea how the inside of your computer works, there's lightning and some smart rocks and someone wrote a bunch of 1s and 0s on it so tiny that it's impossible to read and you can use that computer to send PEOPLE TO THE MOON?? IT'S NOT FAIR! I hereby get all the people together that don't understand how computers work and we're gonna build a treehouse where only people with abaci... abacasus... abacasess... whatever! Where people like me are allowed to go! Honestly, I think it's just a bunch of people who pretend to be purely scientific and cerebral, not recognizing that they're being very very very emotional. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 12, 2022 13:58:31 GMT
Also unfair: Shell isn't getting depicted with hair highlights like the other characters.
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jan 12, 2022 17:13:06 GMT
I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. My point is that I don't understand what makes the ether inherently unfair. The assumption seems to be that a world with ether in it is inherently more unfair than a ether-free world like ours. That's what Shell is saying. I dispute that because the laws of physics aren't "fair" either. Yes, strictly speaking they apply the same way to everyone, but outside of a lab with controlled conditions, the laws a physics will still cause disasters that blindly kill some people and not others. I don't see why an ether-free world should be more fair than a world with ether. It would be one thing if they were talking only about super powerful creatures like Loup and saying "we can't deal with that" but they think things like Anja's computer or Eglamore's wards, or the elves' tree magic are unfair too and shouldn't exist, I just don't see any logic in that. Why not? I agree. The difference between a world with and one without Ether is not that one is fair and the other is not. The difference is predictability. The aforementioned natural disasters obey the laws of nature and can be predicted, given the necessary mathematical model, measurements, computing power etc. But Etheric effects? Not so much. |
|
|
|
Post by maxptc on Jan 13, 2022 0:43:56 GMT
I'm sure I misunderstood your joke/point, but it sounds like you are saying that people/the court aren't researching how to control, understand, and end earthquakes, dangerous storms and war/bombings, or maybe you are you saying we/they shouldn't be trying to in the first place? Or prehaps its a "how can you be unhappy about that injustice when this other injustice exists? By caring more about the one, you're a hypocrite" thing. My point is that I don't understand what makes the ether inherently unfair. The assumption seems to be that a world with ether in it is inherently more unfair than a ether-free world like ours. That's what Shell is saying. I dispute that because the laws of physics aren't "fair" either. Yes, strictly speaking they apply the same way to everyone, but outside of a lab with controlled conditions, the laws a physics will still cause disasters that blindly kill some people and not others. I don't see why an ether-free world should be more fair than a world with ether. It would be one thing if they were talking only about super powerful creatures like Loup and saying "we can't deal with that" but they think things like Anja's computer or Eglamore's wards, or the elves' tree magic are unfair too and shouldn't exist, I just don't see any logic in that. Why not? This makes sense, thinking the complaint of fairness is unreasonable because fairness isn't present in other areas. I don't think the idea is to create a completly fair world, but one where fairness is theoretically achivable. I think the issue is that the Court, with its near limitless resources, has handled almost any "unfair" situation by studying and understanding the rules of the system. The fairness issue is really a control issue, since they are use to being able to study, comprehend and then manipulate anything, and that can't be done, at least in the same way, with the ether. I suppose how reasonable the Shadowmens postion is depends on the degree of control you expect to have over your world. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 13, 2022 5:20:07 GMT
On further reflection, I question if the older higher-ups of the Court have the personal courage to relocate to outer space or some other dimension even if they were reasonably sure it was perfectly safe. It's probably a destination that's a lot more boring. maybe Shell's here to recruit for Shadow Men II, Electric Boogaloo I should have said, "Shadow 2 Men." |
|
