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Post by bicarbonat on Nov 26, 2021 16:58:33 GMT
Why do I feel like that Seraph may be in danger of a shovel to the head? Gotta get that "Cain and Abel," "first crime" business out of the way on the road to New Humanity.
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 26, 2021 17:19:12 GMT
Interesting reaction that they have to the word "demon". It's almost like such things actually exist in this world. Don't forget, though, that the comic pointed out early that the word "demon" is used as a slur to refer to both Zimmy and Renard. The word has also been used among robots specifically, and I note the connection between "demon" and " angel." I suspect that Robot's definition is something like "supernatural/larger-than-life evil creature." Which, if you agree with the moral judgment involved (but we've been given lots of reasons not to) would be an accurate way to describe Zimmy or Renard. Or Coyote. Or Jones. With regards to the Dover Demon, it's unclear whether the creature is evil in any sense (so far, it seems more like an animal that just looks scary). However, the seraph doesn't exactly call it a demon; rather, he (do seraphs other than Robot have genders?) says that its designation is "Dover Demon," meaning that's what it's generally called. The name may not be accurate. |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 26, 2021 17:25:46 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." I agree--but the wording that really threw me for a loop is in panel 4. My brain kept trying to parse it as "Nor are we, Robot, Seraph" (i.e. they are addressing the S-model as both "robot" and "seraph"), leaving me to wonder "Nor are we what?" Human? Frightened? I'm not sure "robot" can be used as an adjective the way "human" can. "Nor are we robots" would have made more sense. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 26, 2021 19:05:15 GMT
Cookies to Isildur and everyone else who caught the cryptid reference!
As to the "new people", maybe we should be calling them androids? Or does that make them sound too much like just a new kind of robot, instead of something entirely new?
Regardless of what they're called, that one in the last panel looks really, really intimidating to me. Maybe it's just the shovel, but I think there's something rather...murderous in her expression and body language. The Dover Demon might not be scared of her, but I am.
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Post by jda on Nov 26, 2021 19:09:27 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." I agree--but the wording that really threw me for a loop is in panel 4. My brain kept trying to parse it as "Nor are we, Robot, Seraph" (i.e. they are addressing the S-model as both "robot" and "seraph"), leaving me to wonder "Nor are we what?" Human? Frightened? I'm not sure "robot" can be used as an adjective the way "human" can. "Nor are we robots" would have made more sense. Linking both text globes, I found it poetry-like, designing that now there are 3 races: Nation of Human Nation of Robot Nation of New People |
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Post by saardvark on Nov 26, 2021 19:13:58 GMT
I wonder if the Seraphs are trying to get back into Kat's good favor (and maybe win new bodies for themselves?) by helping with the some of the New People to rescue buried shield robots? (The Court may well have written them off as lost.) Some of the shield robots' CPUs have already been transplanted/transferred to the New People... www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2248so these will need new "brains" from other robots. Maybe Kat has access to some more CPUs from other head-crabbed bots, via Juliette www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2241 |
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Post by jda on Nov 26, 2021 19:18:07 GMT
But... What is the Dover Demon doing on panel 3? Jazz dancing? A Broadway pirouette?  Maybe it was making his take on...  I mean, he aready was on ground on Panel 2. |
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Post by warrl on Nov 26, 2021 19:36:51 GMT
The word has also been used among robots specifically, and I note the connection between "demon" and " angel." I suspect that Robot's definition is something like "supernatural/larger-than-life evil creature." Which, if you agree with the moral judgment involved (but we've been given lots of reasons not to) would be an accurate way to describe Zimmy or Renard. Or Coyote. Or Jones. Or Annie, Jack, Aata, Janet, Paz, George, James, Andrew, Gamma, ... (Granted, some of those are larger-than-life in fairly subtle ways...) |
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manabi
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Post by manabi on Nov 26, 2021 20:11:09 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... I think we have three factions of robots (and former robots), so we can use all three: - New People (The robots that Kat's given humanoid bodies)
- Cylons (The Seraphim robots and all the other robotic ones that have joined Robot's cult)
- Robots (The ones that are still in robotic bodies and not part of the cult)
The New People & Robots don't seem dangerous, but Robot's cult comes across as dangerous and the Seraphim robots have already done things that are dangerous to humans and other robots. (Arguably they're responsible for Kat's killing the boat.) Cylons fits them well.
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Post by Per on Nov 26, 2021 20:58:25 GMT
But... What is the Dover Demon doing on panel 3? Jazz dancing? A Broadway pirouette? Looks like it's clambering across the dirtrock face while twisting its head around 180 degrees to keep an eye on those weirdos. |
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Post by todd on Nov 27, 2021 0:40:58 GMT
Kat struck me as so focused on the challenge of building robots that she seemed to be ignoring the fact that the robots were turning it into a religion (probably assisted by the fact that nearly all of the proseletizing, etc. took place when the human characters were absent). (Note, for that matter, that while it started off as simply replacing Robot's paper-clipped body, that clearly turned into just the catalyst; Kat soon showed that she was doing it for its own sake.) It seems to me that Kat doesn't really take the robots' canonizing of her and her work very seriously. Isn't there a panel somewhere where she reacts to being addressed as the Angel with a brush-off along the lines of "yeah some of them have started calling me that, it's kind of weird"? What seems to us to be becoming a worryingly zealous Cult of Kat seems in her mind to amount to nothing more than the robots being weird. Which is very consistent with her character, and as Pyradonis said her tendency to not think too much about the long-term consequences of what she does. To Kat, the progression of things has been Robot needed a new body -> she had inspiration for creating a new robot body based on biological organisms (the dove's wing), a technological possibility which excited her -> Arthur and Juliette approached her for help and gave her the resources to make that idea a reality -> she created the body for Arthur -> she was upset by the plight of the Court robots frozen in the barrier and having their CPUs replaced with "Zombie" CPUs -> she decided to make bodies for all the robots to free them So a combination of being motivated to help people, and being motivated by the technological possibilities of her inventions. The robots turning it all into her being the divine Creator of their new species is something Annie might have better tools to understand and see the potential dangers in, if she ever paid enough attention to anyone's problems other than her own to notice. I've wondered whether the robots' "comic relief" atmosphere may have made it easier for the humans at the Court to underestimate them. (Though it does seem a bit strange that, after the robot religion led to the events in "he Torn Sea", nobody started seriously reappraising it. (Though if they had, it would have probably gotten in the way of the direction the story was going in.) |
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Post by fwip on Nov 27, 2021 2:41:26 GMT
All right, which one of you nerds added Gunnerkrigg Court to the Dover Demon Wikipedia page?
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Post by Igniz on Nov 27, 2021 3:37:48 GMT
—It is not frightened of you because it knows you are not human. Ignore it.
—Nor are we robot, Seraph. We are New People.
—...Umm, nope, you are robots.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 27, 2021 4:56:40 GMT
Still trying to figure out what's so interesting about watching a hole being dug. Maybe DD thinks there's treasure or food down there. Or a records building full of personal information. Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... Synth Folk? Compromise: New People/Cylons or NPCs for short. They'll be very helpful to the next generation of kids having adventures. |
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Post by csj on Nov 27, 2021 9:47:06 GMT
clearly the best compromise is to call them noobs
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Post by blahzor on Nov 27, 2021 15:45:24 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... I think we have three factions of robots (and former robots), so we can use all three: - New People (The robots that Kat's given humanoid bodies)
- Cylons (The Seraphim robots and all the other robotic ones that have joined Robot's cult)
- Robots (The ones that are still in robotic bodies and not part of the cult)
The New People & Robots don't seem dangerous, but Robot's cult comes across as dangerous and the Seraphim robots have already done things that are dangerous to humans and other robots. (Arguably they're responsible for Kat's killing the boat.) Cylons fits them well.
i suggest Katietes or Kats for short ;p |
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Post by davidm on Nov 27, 2021 23:55:08 GMT
Am I the only one sensing passive aggressiveness between the Seraph robot and Ms. pink eyes? "It is not frightened of you because it knows you are not human. Ignore it". can be read as a matter of fact statement to inform the court residents that they have no reason to fear. It can also be read as "Despite appearances to the contrary, you are not human and never will be. (get off your high horse)" Ms. pink eyes answer can be read as an assurance of her new identity and preaching transcendence evangelism. It can also be read as her stating "Sounds like *someone* is jealous of our new life condition. Perhaps you would like to join us... <sarcasm> Oh wait! Oh no! Your previous actions prevents you from doing so!</sarcasm>" Or it could be a sort of leadership thing, the seraphs are used to being leaders of robots with the biggest brains, so are playing the role they are used to giving advice to other robots (seraph means very important angel), and the other robots are asserting they are now the superior models, the seraphs are in effect the "boxbots" at bottom of robot society. |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 28, 2021 0:45:16 GMT
All right, which one of you nerds added Gunnerkrigg Court to the Dover Demon Wikipedia page?
Incidentally, the reference was added before the current page confirmed that DD was the intended creature. |
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Post by drmemory on Nov 28, 2021 6:46:58 GMT
Interesting that the concern is whether the Dover Demon is afraid, not people. I guess that makes sense - cryptids are notoriously shy!
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Post by basser on Nov 28, 2021 7:57:38 GMT
For some reason I had the shower thought of wondering if we're gonna get some strange robot racism as every forest denizen who primarily uses ether-vision either treats the Hosts like they don't exist, or freaks out about them being horrifying abominations. Kat will surely be annoyed by either option. And hey if they've got souls visible in the ether it would be cool as heck if they're hyperdimensional like godmode Kat. Not as overwhelming as her, of course, just low-key shifting out of frame like a tesseract. Tidy visual metaphor for how they transcend the boundaries of what it means to be alive.
Speaking of which - reckon they can't die without a psychopomp. Or, at least, they can't get returned to circulation. But are they even subject to etheric recycling? Does the world continue to spin after you've hucked a load of robot souls into the ether pool? Or does it get like an unbalanced washing machine and rattle the etheric door open and get magic suds everywhere?
I also wonder if the forest creatures who turned human will be allowed to mingle with their old pals.
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Post by DonDueed on Nov 28, 2021 13:18:22 GMT
All right, which one of you nerds added Gunnerkrigg Court to the Dover Demon Wikipedia page?
Incidentally, the reference was added before the current page confirmed that DD was the intended creature. Really? That took some guts... unless it was Tom or Maggie who put in the reference. |
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Jota
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by Jota on Nov 28, 2021 21:45:23 GMT
Can these folks die? Is Kat planning to just zoop every single robot into a host body, dust off her hands and saunter off into the sunset leaving her congregation of immortal children to their own devices? It seems to me that it's a bit of a jump to assume that Kat is even planning that far ahead. |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 29, 2021 4:17:39 GMT
Am I the only one sensing passive aggressiveness between the Seraph robot and Ms. pink eyes? Well, there has to be some tension. Also, Pink Eyes may be somewhat less polite than usual simply because these two were spooked by the weird critter, and now a seraph patronizes them a bit. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 29, 2021 14:14:26 GMT
I always thought that Annie had red hair, not pink, but maybe that's just how it looks to me. Tom's answer on formspring whether Annie's hair is supposed to look red or pink: I think it depends on your monitor. It is sort-of-red and pink. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 29, 2021 18:09:42 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. I'm not convinced yet that they're using that term for themselves. Because of the font, we can't tell whether that's capitalized. It's in bold, but that just could be vocal emphasis because they're contradicting the Seraph. They could simply be saying that they're new people in a general sense, not that they're called the New People. In my headcanon I'm going to continue calling them androids until a reasonably clear canon alternative makes itself known. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 29, 2021 20:59:25 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. I'm not convinced yet that they're using that term for themselves. Because of the font, we can't tell whether that's capitalized. It's in bold, but that just could be vocal emphasis because they're contradicting the Seraph. They could simply be saying that they're new people in a general sense, not that they're called the New People. In my headcanon I'm going to continue calling them androids until a reasonably clear canon alternative makes itself known. Nerd alert! ...Okay. Well, I disagree with calling them androids, since, new name or not, they did emphasize that they are not robots (anymore). But androids are, by definition, human-looking robots. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 30, 2021 11:58:33 GMT
I'm not convinced yet that they're using that term for themselves. Because of the font, we can't tell whether that's capitalized. It's in bold, but that just could be vocal emphasis because they're contradicting the Seraph. They could simply be saying that they're new people in a general sense, not that they're called the New People. In my headcanon I'm going to continue calling them androids until a reasonably clear canon alternative makes itself known. Nerd alert! ...Okay. Well, I disagree with calling them androids, since, new name or not, they did emphasize that they are not robots (anymore). But androids are, by definition, human-looking robots. If you are continuing the alchemical theme, they're something like homunculi. That word refers to a miniature artificial human, though. The correct word in English, following that pattern, would be "hominid" or "hominin", if that hadn't already been taken for biological cladistics (describing humans and human-like organisms). I was thinking that "humanoids" would be the best available term, except for two things - first, there seems to be no special requirement that the new people be shaped exactly like humans. It might be useful to retain the term for those new people who did happen to choose human shapes, though, for as long as they retain those shapes. The word "person" itself is Latin ( persona) and refers to both the stage mask worn by actors (deriving from an Etruscan word) and to an adopted self. It avoids identifying the individual former robot as a human, or something like a human, or something less than a human. The first use of the word to mean something like "a discrete individual" was to describe the Three Persons of the Trinity (God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit) in the 13th century or so (for the non-English speakers, this use of "persons" instead of "people" is theological jargon, not a standard English plural). Interestingly, the word "people" is etymologically unrelated to "person". Arguably the former robots were always "people" in the sense of "sapient individuals" anyway, so the addition of "new" is an efficient and intelligible way of getting across "this is the appearance we former robotic individuals are now adopting". In its sense of "a community", the former robots may be described correctly as "a people". "New" can be rendered in Latin in a few different ways. The commonest word, the one you learn on your first day in Latin class, is novus, but that is properly used only in the sense of a newborn or untouched thing (like "new in box"), and I'd rather choose one of the other related words to recognise that the former robot has a past existence and a formed identity. The word novicius has interesting senses such as "newfangled" ("upgraded", perhaps) and even "new human status" (it was used for someone who was recently enslaved, in Roman times, but slavery in Rome was complex and multifactorial, and being a slave did not necessarily imply the sort of degradation and abuse typical of more modern slavery). For these reasons I'm recommending "New People" as the precisely correct English name for the group of former robots with the new bodies, and "Novician" as the demonym. Discuss  |
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Post by warrl on Dec 1, 2021 6:37:00 GMT
How about golems?
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Post by speedwell on Dec 1, 2021 8:06:55 GMT
Nah, when you know what golems are in the mystical tradition, and how they're made and for what purposes, the designation is just super wrong for the robots. In particular, the golem of the mystical tradition was more like a robot. It was ugly, subservient, mechanical, and disposable, and arguably incapable of independent thought. Since the comic relies so much on the alchemical meanings of things, it would be a very false note to call the former robots by that name. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 1, 2021 16:00:03 GMT
In addition to what speedwell said, the comic seems to have established this somewhat as the name for the original robots, I think. |
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