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Post by madjack on Nov 26, 2021 8:05:35 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 26, 2021 8:23:49 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel."
Also not sure what DD is doing in panel #3. Well, I can see what it's doing but am not sure why. Maybe it's their (Dover Demons and/or the internets) way of saying hello?
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Nov 26, 2021 8:24:11 GMT
I love it when a seraphim goes: "BE NOT AFRAID!!!" what with their fiery eyes and swords and bodies!
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Post by rafk on Nov 26, 2021 8:24:56 GMT
Ah, we're back to the robots and the troubling way they come across more and more like Cylons in training with each new development while Kat is probably oblivious to it all. Nothing could possibly be going wrong!
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Post by madjack on Nov 26, 2021 8:29:16 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... Also from the shovel in that last panel and the chapter name, they're probably here to dig up the buried shield robots to add them to their ranks. Edit: Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." That wording would imply that it's an opportunity that's passed them by though, while the 'can earn' used in the comic leaves the possibility open.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 26, 2021 8:54:50 GMT
Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." That wording would imply that it's an opportunity that's passed them by though, while the 'can earn' used in the comic leaves the possibility open. Maybe it's just too early in the AM for me but I can't reconcile those tenses with that punctuation. I don't think they're leaving the possibility open. I think the New Person is taking a bit of a poke at the Seraph. An ellipsis instead of the comma might be better. "Maybe you can earn the privilege too... if you hadn't angered the Angel."
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Post by madjack on Nov 26, 2021 8:55:37 GMT
Oh yeah, she's definitely taking a shot at them.
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Post by csj on Nov 26, 2021 9:08:07 GMT
oh no i don't remember this member of the dover bois
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on Nov 26, 2021 9:19:06 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." A question from an English learner here. Could this be understood as "Maybe you can earn the privilege too – unless you angered the Angel [irretrievably]"?
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Post by speedwell on Nov 26, 2021 9:25:18 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." A question from an English learner here. Could this be understood as "Maybe you can earn the privilege too – unless you angered the Angel [irretrievably]"? From an English tutor (American living in Ireland)... the original statement is nonstandard in both American and British (including Irish) English. Your statement is not exactly on the mark; it would be natural to use imaginary friend's construction if you were simplifying things. However I don't think the statement is one complete thought; I think it indicates that the speaker changed thoughts "midstream", or appeared to. I think, as others have caught on to, that the red-haired person is saying something like, "Oh, do you want this? Well, sucks to be you, you can't have it". I think we're all assuming Tom meant that, in full, the speaker meant something like, "We got these bodies for the asking, but you're in disgrace. Maybe you can earn the privilege if... no, wait, you have angered the Angel so in my opinion you can't even aspire to that". It isn't expressed well.
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Post by speedwell on Nov 26, 2021 9:33:51 GMT
Interesting reaction that they have to the word "demon". It's almost like such things actually exist in this world.
Don't forget, though, that the comic pointed out early that the word "demon" is used as a slur to refer to both Zimmy and Renard.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 26, 2021 9:36:44 GMT
I wonder if either of these two used the "randomise" button that the chapter on the robot picking its body revealed was so popular. When Kat mentioned keeping the variables within certain parameters I assumed that meant ensuring the result would be within "normal human" parameters. Basically, did Red Hair pick those pink eyes themselves or would something like that result from randomising appearance?
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Post by basser on Nov 26, 2021 10:08:32 GMT
I wonder if either of these two used the "randomise" button that the chapter on the robot picking its body revealed was so popular. When Kat mentioned keeping the variables within certain parameters I assumed that meant ensuring the result would be within "normal human" parameters. Basically, did Red Hair pick those pink eyes themselves or would something like that result from randomising appearance? To be fair this is a world where Antimony (and presumably her entire mitochondrial lineage) just casually have hot pink hair and everyone seems chill about it. I'd imagine hot pink eyes fall under the same tolerance limits. On a more meta level it's obvs a stylistic choice to visually distinguish hosts from humans. Could have a bit of fun speculating though - maybe Kat or someone else involved in the process intentionally bumped the saturation on iris color as a way to quickly tell them apart from humans. Or maybe the robots did it themselves as some sort of identity thing, not wanting to look exactly like the guests. Perhaps they eschew standard grammar for the same reason. (Yes I'm going to keep using Westworld terms to refer to Kat's vat-grown uncanny flesh army and nobody can stop me.) Oh, one last thought though: Can these folks die? Is Kat planning to just zoop every single robot into a host body, dust off her hands and saunter off into the sunset leaving her congregation of immortal children to their own devices? Ok well having typed it out I guess that's actually pretty much how most gods in creation myths go about the business, but still. Rude.
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Post by blahzor on Nov 26, 2021 10:23:25 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... Also from the shovel in that last panel and the chapter name, they're probably here to dig up the buried shield robots to add them to their ranks. Edit: Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." That wording would imply that it's an opportunity that's passed them by though, while the 'can earn' used in the comic leaves the possibility open. We would have gotten away from it if it wasn't for you NP's!
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Post by blahzor on Nov 26, 2021 10:25:51 GMT
Interesting reaction that they have to the word "demon". It's almost like such things actually exist in this world. Don't forget, though, that the comic pointed out early that the word "demon" is used as a slur to refer to both Zimmy and Renard. The only Demon they would probably know of is Rey and Zimmy and to a lesser extent Y's after their medium visit? Or the tree dog incident through word of mouth
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Post by guntherkrieg on Nov 26, 2021 11:11:35 GMT
With strange aeons. I think the implication of feeling pain, having to regenerate from injuries along the slow path, etc., has more or less implied they're mortal or mortalesque.
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Post by peter2 on Nov 26, 2021 11:49:55 GMT
Oh, one last thought though: Can these folks die? Is Kat planning to just zoop every single robot into a host body, dust off her hands and saunter off into the sunset leaving her congregation of immortal children to their own devices? Ok well having typed it out I guess that's actually pretty much how most gods in creation myths go about the business, but still. Rude.
Did not Diego do the same?
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 26, 2021 13:02:12 GMT
I wonder if either of these two used the "randomise" button that the chapter on the robot picking its body revealed was so popular. When Kat mentioned keeping the variables within certain parameters I assumed that meant ensuring the result would be within "normal human" parameters. Basically, did Red Hair pick those pink eyes themselves or would something like that result from randomising appearance? On a more meta level it's obvs a stylistic choice to visually distinguish hosts from humans. Could have a bit of fun speculating though - maybe Kat or someone else involved in the process intentionally bumped the saturation on iris color as a way to quickly tell them apart from humans. Or maybe the robots did it themselves as some sort of identity thing, not wanting to look exactly like the guests. Perhaps they eschew standard grammar for the same reason. Arthur (the first New Person, as remarked by Robot) had similarly very brightly coloured eyes, and the bonus page from his chapter remarks that he has the "latest version eye sensors". These guys seemingly have some even more advanced tech considering they don't have visible seams like Arthur, but still similar eyes to his. Perhaps the in-universe explanation for the stylistic choice for distinguishing the New People is something about the sensors requiring this 'high saturation' coloration? Real biological eyes after all differ in their ability to filter light based on colour (with people with light-coloured eyes being more sensitive to bright light). Or Kat, fan of anime and video games, just thinks brightly coloured eyes are cool and built the eye sensors that way to make the New People look cool. Also putting on my tinfoil hat to say that Red Hair's face looks quite a bit like Robot's face in the "She gave us an ocean" chapter, particularly the mouth (although the hair and eyes are different), and Brown Hair so far seems skittish enough to possibly be the overwhelmed robot that chose a body in that chapter. I don't necessarily think either guess is true but I'd like to preempt the possible cookies.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 26, 2021 13:45:40 GMT
These two may look more human, but the Seraph says DD could tell right away that they aren't human. I assume that is due to how they look through the ether.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 26, 2021 13:47:44 GMT
Good thing these "New People" don't know their arrogant high priest and guide to getting a new body is the one who led the Seraphs... and that without what the Seraphs did, Kat might have never come as far as to being able to create these bodies at all. Not that I'm defending the way the Seraphs went about it, mind you. But I guess I feel very much triggered by this unearned display of superiority. I wonder if either of these two used the "randomise" button that the chapter on the robot picking its body revealed was so popular. When Kat mentioned keeping the variables within certain parameters I assumed that meant ensuring the result would be within "normal human" parameters. Basically, did Red Hair pick those pink eyes themselves or would something like that result from randomising appearance? To be fair this is a world where Antimony (and presumably her entire mitochondrial lineage) just casually have hot pink hair and everyone seems chill about it. I'd imagine hot pink eyes fall under the same tolerance limits. I'm 98% sure Tom confirmed somewhere that Annie's hair color does not look natural to other humans. Wellll, they could just be assuming Annie dyes her hair. Dyeing one's irises is not as easy. I think. Considering how Kat has so far been shown to have zero interest in thinking about long-term consequences of her work... Right now I'd say, yes, that's most likely what she will do.
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Post by todd on Nov 26, 2021 13:48:43 GMT
The panel #5 text sounds a little awkward to my tender American ears. Not sure if that's a Britishism but I would have expected, "Maybe you could have earned the privilege too, if you hadn't angered the Angel." Maybe Tom got distracted when he was writing it, and wound up making the latter half of the sentence not quite fit the former half grammatically. That's happened to me a few times.
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Post by todd on Nov 26, 2021 13:52:46 GMT
Good thing these "New People" don't know their arrogant high priest and guide to getting a new body is the one who led the Seraphs... and that without what the Seraph's did, Kat might have never come as far as to being able to create these bodies at all. Not that I'm defending the way the Seraphs went about it, mind you. But I guess I feel very much triggered by this unearned display of superiority. To be fair this is a world where Antimony (and presumably her entire mitochondrial lineage) just casually have hot pink hair and everyone seems chill about it. I'd imagine hot pink eyes fall under the same tolerance limits. I'm 98% sure Tom confirmed somewhere that Annie's hair color does not look natural to other humans. Wellll, they could just be assuming Annie dyes her hair. Dyeing one's irises is not as easy. I think. Oh, one last thought though: Can these folks die? Is Kat planning to just zoop every single robot into a host body, dust off her hands and saunter off into the sunset leaving her congregation of immortal children to their own devices? Ok well having typed it out I guess that's actually pretty much how most gods in creation myths go about the business, but still. Rude. Considering how Kat has so far been shown to have zero interest in thinking about long-term consequences of her work... Right now I'd say, yes, that's most likely what she will do.
I always thought that Annie had red hair, not pink, but maybe that's just how it looks to me. Kat struck me as so focused on the challenge of building robots that she seemed to be ignoring the fact that the robots were turning it into a religion (probably assisted by the fact that nearly all of the proseletizing, etc. took place when the human characters were absent). (Note, for that matter, that while it started off as simply replacing Robot's paper-clipped body, that clearly turned into just the catalyst; Kat soon showed that she was doing it for its own sake.)
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 26, 2021 14:18:01 GMT
Kat struck me as so focused on the challenge of building robots that she seemed to be ignoring the fact that the robots were turning it into a religion (probably assisted by the fact that nearly all of the proseletizing, etc. took place when the human characters were absent). (Note, for that matter, that while it started off as simply replacing Robot's paper-clipped body, that clearly turned into just the catalyst; Kat soon showed that she was doing it for its own sake.) It seems to me that Kat doesn't really take the robots' canonizing of her and her work very seriously. Isn't there a panel somewhere where she reacts to being addressed as the Angel with a brush-off along the lines of "yeah some of them have started calling me that, it's kind of weird"? What seems to us to be becoming a worryingly zealous Cult of Kat seems in her mind to amount to nothing more than the robots being weird. Which is very consistent with her character, and as Pyradonis said her tendency to not think too much about the long-term consequences of what she does. To Kat, the progression of things has been Robot needed a new body -> she had inspiration for creating a new robot body based on biological organisms (the dove's wing), a technological possibility which excited her -> Arthur and Juliette approached her for help and gave her the resources to make that idea a reality -> she created the body for Arthur -> she was upset by the plight of the Court robots frozen in the barrier and having their CPUs replaced with "Zombie" CPUs -> she decided to make bodies for all the robots to free them So a combination of being motivated to help people, and being motivated by the technological possibilities of her inventions. The robots turning it all into her being the divine Creator of their new species is something Annie might have better tools to understand and see the potential dangers in, if she ever paid enough attention to anyone's problems other than her own to notice.
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Post by saardvark on Nov 26, 2021 14:43:51 GMT
Also not sure what DD is doing in panel #3. Well, I can see what it's doing but am not sure why. Maybe it's their (Dover Demons and/or the internets) way of saying hello? I think DD is scaling the wall (in a spidery way) behind the seraph, but twisting its head around 180 degrees (note neck twist) to keep an eye on it and the new people.
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Post by DonDueed on Nov 26, 2021 14:50:12 GMT
Interesting that the Seraph mentions that the Dover Demon isn't frightened of the New People. He doesn't seem aware that the New People might be afraid of DD; or maybe he just doesn't care about that.
I suppose the suggestion is that DD is normally timid and wouldn't approach strangers as he has done here. The point seems to be that the NP are not truly human and can be readily distinguished for what they are, at least by some of the forest creatures.
That only leaves the question of what the Seraph is doing there in the first place. Are the Seraphs monitoring all the New People?
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 26, 2021 14:54:57 GMT
Is Tom's page comment "It's just a demon" referring to DD or the Seraph? To me, DD was the first and obvious answer, but now I think Tom means both.
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Post by quinnr on Nov 26, 2021 14:55:07 GMT
Re-reading The Torn Sea after these guys made a new appearance. It feels like a lot of loose ends are about to come together, but will it still have been worth it? It also stuck out to me that The Torn Sea was the first opportunity Kat had to really work on a human-like body, and with Robot being involved makes me feel like Kat may have been intentionally trained for and pushed along a certain path even more than she or the readers are aware so far.
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Nov 26, 2021 15:36:59 GMT
These two may look more human, but the Seraph says DD could tell right away that they aren't human. I assume that is due to how they look through the ether. Actually, it's... how they talk! Someone on Reddit made a very nice observation today: the speech bubbles of New People still have an angular "tail"! Normal people's speech bubbles are all round and curvy, robot speech bubbles have lots of corners, New People speech bubbles are somewhere in between!
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 26, 2021 15:55:58 GMT
Maybe we should call them by the name they're using for themselves: New People. Less clumsy than using something like uplifted or the like, and differentiates them from the conventional older robots. Cylons isn't bad either though... Synth Folk? Interesting reaction that they have to the word "demon". "Dover Demon", simply a part of the commonly used name. I wonder if either of these two used the "randomise" button that the chapter on the robot picking its body revealed was so popular. When Kat mentioned keeping the variables within certain parameters I assumed that meant ensuring the result would be within "normal human" parameters. Basically, did Red Hair pick those pink eyes themselves or would something like that result from randomising appearance? To be fair this is a world where Antimony (and presumably her entire mitochondrial lineage) just casually have hot pink hair and everyone seems chill about it. It's the Court. You remember how some of Foley kids look, right? I think the implication of feeling pain, having to regenerate from injuries along the slow path, etc., has more or less implied they're mortal or mortalesque. Assuming they do… Practically and in short-term this only means they are more subject to feedbacks and thus pathemata mathemata. In long term, how they will come to see it is another matter. Options range from grumpy annoyance to gluttony for any sort of sensations.
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Post by bedinsis on Nov 26, 2021 16:41:30 GMT
Am I the only one sensing passive aggressiveness between the Seraph robot and Ms. pink eyes?
"It is not frightened of you because it knows you are not human. Ignore it". can be read as a matter of fact statement to inform the court residents that they have no reason to fear. It can also be read as "Despite appearances to the contrary, you are not human and never will be. (get off your high horse)"
Ms. pink eyes answer can be read as an assurance of her new identity and preaching transcendence evangelism. It can also be read as her stating "Sounds like *someone* is jealous of our new life condition. Perhaps you would like to join us... <sarcasm> Oh wait! Oh no! Your previous actions prevents you from doing so!</sarcasm>"
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