[2491] Loup, what a fool!

[madjack]

Just casually freezing time to take stock, as Coyote does.

===

Is it just me or does it feel like there's a page missing? Edit again: The timestop blue border is present on the previous page, subtle but it's there.

Edit: philman had the better choice of title, so I'll use that one.

[philman]

So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected.

Exposition time Coyote, what the hell is going on?!

Edit:

Jul 9, 2021 7:04:25 GMT madjack said:

Edit: philman had the better choice of title, so I'll use that one.

Haha, teamwork! You get the earlier timestamp, I come up with the title.

[Fishy]

Unfortunately, the Court made the common mistake when dealing with Coyote of forgetting that Coyote is Coyote.

I've only now realized that the border of the final panel of the previous page is gently moving into the grey/blue timestop look. It's barely noticeable, but it's definitely there.

[mzpx]

Coyote last did this here, if my memory serves well. Looking at the Wednesday page, the borders of the last panel have changed into blue already.

I'd note that Coyote is actually still attached at the tail, so maybe the Court's shenanigans are limiting what he can do?

[Edit: too late with both my observations hahaha]

[imaginaryfriend]

Looks like Coyote has stepped into another layer of reality where time isn't passing at the same rate, maybe time is stopped completely.

[edit] Should add that I speculate that he could break the connection to the etheric energy the Court is drawing in but doesn't want to (at least not now) because that would prevent this slice of Coyote from doing anything. Also that he's invited Antimony into this layer because he likes having an audience but maybe he will tell her how to save Ysengrin, by which I mean give her an enigmatic hint at how to do it. [/edit]

[speedwell]

Is she going to lead him (and/or Ysengrin) through the light now? 

I am on the fence about this since I think this is a Coyote projection or avatar, not the entity "Coyote" per se.

[TBeholder]

Jul 9, 2021 7:07:39 GMT philman said:

So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected.

If he is not too restrained to induce a hilarious catastrophic failure, he's only restrained as long as he is willing to put up with this.
For example, he already walks near the source, so he could connect to the "lightning" there, looping the entire process on itself.

[imaginaryfriend]

Jul 9, 2021 7:36:21 GMT TBeholder said:

Jul 9, 2021 7:07:39 GMT philman said:

So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected.

If he is not too restrained to induce a hilarious catastrophic failure, he's only restrained as long as he is willing to put up with this.
For example, he already walks near the source, so he could connect to the "lightning" there, looping the entire process on itself.

He could, but I'm not sure that would get him anything other than a giggle and whatever conversation he had with Antimony before he did that. Since nothing's been done about what the Court's doing (hoovering the ether) I'm thinking it's like managing to escape from the superhappy fun slide at a water park before you wind up in the pool, going back up a few levels and then jumping into the slide again. In order to have enough water pressure to actually do anything (like splash people) he has to remain in the flow. He can indefinitely postpone things by staying in this time slice but he's still headed for the splashdown at the pool unless he breaks the connection.

[aline]

Jul 9, 2021 7:36:21 GMT TBeholder said:

Jul 9, 2021 7:07:39 GMT philman said:

So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected.

If he is not too restrained to induce a hilarious catastrophic failure, he's only restrained as long as he is willing to put up with this.
For example, he already walks near the source, so he could connect to the "lightning" there, looping the entire process on itself.

Agree! But this is his clever plan unfolding and I think he has more in mind than a short circuit.

[pyradonis]

Let's see how many months have passed this time when everyone gets back from the forest.

[ohthatone]

Jul 9, 2021 7:30:11 GMT speedwell said:

Is she going to lead him (and/or Ysengrin) through the light now? 

I am on the fence about this since I think this is a Coyote projection or avatar, not the entity "Coyote" per se.

That brings up an interesting point that even though coyote wants to experience death, he kinda can't. For someone to die, they have to exist first for one thing, which coyote has made clear that he does not. I guess people would have to stop believing in him for him to "die"?
I guess coyote wanted to experience death as he has seen it: a rather painful (killed) end only to be absorbed (eaten) and used to create/continue the life of another.

[saardvark]

well, that was easy - Coyote just freezes time, and thus the ether beam, and steps out!

[shadow3]

ANNIE: "Coyote?"

SAM: "Al?"

AL: "Sam?"

ARCHER: "Daniels?"

DANIELS: "This isn't-"

COYOTE: "Whoops! Hehe."

[ctso74]

Annie isn't grey anymore. Can she move? If so, I wonder, will Coyote give Loup the same courtesy? Loup's predetermined end may be nigh.

[mzpx]

Jul 9, 2021 7:09:32 GMT mzpx said:

Coyote last did this here, if my memory serves well. Looking at the Wednesday page, the borders of the last panel have changed into blue already.

Oh, and the effect looked the same when Loup did it. 

Reassessing 'they almost got it': 'they almost figured out a way to turn me into pure etheric energy'. Coyote calling Loup a fool and Coyote still being attached to the beam makes me think that the Court will be successful in draining Loup of etheric energy, Coyote just wanted to enjoy watching what happened, so he stopped time for a bit.

I do wonder if Coyote will choose not to short-circuit (because that makes for a better story) or if he really cannot. 

[mturtle7]

I'm curious is anyone else feeling shades of Quicksilver (from the X-men movies) here?

[Igniz]

Za Warudo!

Wily E. must've expected that something like this (or along the lines) would—and more than that, wanted for it to—happen, an prepared wittingly in advance. Will he mention something about (or related to) the Omega Device to Annie? I certainly hope so.

[Corvo]

So apparently both Loup and 'Memory Coyote' have Coyote's strength. I paid no mind to it before, but now we're seeing Memory Coyote actually using his powers, and I'm wondering how this works. Does he have the terrifying skills of gardening back from Ysengrin, too? Or it's just the ones from right before he stored the memories? Is just a memory of Coyote more powerful than Loup? Questions, questions.

[fia]

Didn't the Court remember that Loup very clearly advised "don't be a dead goose in a bush by a lake"?!

More like a sitting duck, amirite

[Corvo]

Oh, seems like Coyote is still connected to the bean through his tail.
Edit: Ninja'd. That's what I get for not reading before writing.
Edit: Typo. That's what I get for not reading after writing.

[pyradonis]

Jul 9, 2021 11:55:26 GMT ohthatone said:

Jul 9, 2021 7:30:11 GMT speedwell said:

Is she going to lead him (and/or Ysengrin) through the light now? 

I am on the fence about this since I think this is a Coyote projection or avatar, not the entity "Coyote" per se.

That brings up an interesting point that even though coyote wants to experience death, he kinda can't. For someone to die, they have to exist first for one thing, which coyote has made clear that he does not. I guess people would have to stop believing in him for him to "die"?     [...]

If I remember correctly, we have seen beings from ancient Egyptian and Babylonian mythology depicted as psychopomps in the comic. I doubt anyone still believes in Ysengrin or Renard to actually exist, even if their stories are still known. Seems to me that as soon as a myth has been imprinted strongly enough on the Ether to make a being appear they are here to stay.

[mzpx]

Jul 9, 2021 18:11:17 GMT Corvo said:

So apparently both Loup and 'Memory Coyote' have Coyote's strength. I paid no mind to it before, but now we're seeing Memory Coyote actually using his powers, and I'm wondering how this works. Does he have the terrifying skills of gardening back from Ysengrin, too? Or it's just the ones from right before he stored the memories? Is just a memory of Coyote more powerful than Loup? Questions, questions.

That's a really good question! The Goose Bone chapter has already had its retrospective (link to the exact time where Tom talks about the locked away Coyote-part), sounds like it should just be the powers that he had when making the goose bone. It also sounds like this Coyote-part is simultaneously dead and alive, like Ysengrin, and this page makes it seem like he is ultimately a part of Loup (he was just so much more powerful than Ysengrin, so he can come out of Loup without his permission), so at the very least, there are some limits to what this Coyote can do?

[myzelf]

It would have been pretty interesting if the Court had managed to capture Coyote.

[mzpx]

Jul 9, 2021 19:45:17 GMT pyradonis said:

Jul 9, 2021 11:55:26 GMT ohthatone said:

That brings up an interesting point that even though coyote wants to experience death, he kinda can't. For someone to die, they have to exist first for one thing, which coyote has made clear that he does not. I guess people would have to stop believing in him for him to "die"?     [...]

If I remember correctly, we have seen beings from ancient Egyptian and Babylonian mythology depicted as psychopomps in the comic. I doubt anyone still believes in Ysengrin or Renard to actually exist, even if their stories are still known. Seems to me that as soon as a myth has been imprinted strongly enough on the Ether to make a being appear they are here to stay.

Do humans actually have to believe that the beings themselves exist, or do they only have to believe in the ideas they represent, with the shape they take in the ether/real life resembling the shape they have in the stories? E.g. Ysengrin as the allegory for stupidity, I don't think anybody has ever believed that Ysengrin actually existed, but people have always believed in the story of the arrogant fool getting tricked.
Or when Coyote explains his big secret, he talks about the human assigning the power of a god to the coyote that will eat him and that act giving him powers, not necessarily believing in Coyote the God. And people are still likely to believe in something bigger behind their imminent death than 'I didn't pack enough water and I lost my compass'.
For that matter, Jones herself. She is not based on any real-life stories directly (unlike the canine gods), but she represents a pretty fundamental human belief in the constant (as in, there must be at least something that is constant and will serve as a record of our time). (To be fair, there are quite a few examples of constant and (theoretically) silent observers, like the Time Lords in Doctor Who, or the Watcher in Marvel.)

Basically, I don't think that the Gunnerkrigg Universe operates under Discworld rules for its gods (i.e. the more people believe in them, the stronger they are), I think that the etheric beings tend to represent universal human beliefs.

[hp]

Coyote is from native north american culture, they are still around. Besides, after he was formed by that belief, there is at least the whole Court and Gillity population, who came in contact with him, know about his power and probably very much believe he is a god.

If we speculate the belief of the robots made flesh might provoke Kat's ascension, there is no way the court, gillity and native american population who keep their religion are not enough to keep Coyote's divinity

[lurkerbot]

Jul 9, 2021 9:00:10 GMT pyradonis said:

Let's see how many months have passed this time when everyone gets back from the forest.

Interesting speculation. I suspect that Loup's command of time flow was not as powerful as Coyote's (or his avatar's). I wouldn't be surprised if Coyote's time stop could affect as much area as he chooses whereas Loup's appeared to be limited to the Forest (although we never saw Coyote stop time outside the Forest either). But maybe Loup chose to limit the effect just to mess with Antimony after copying her, or maybe he actually couldn't stop time in the Court due to the defensive barrier created by the overridden robots.

[edited to add] Thinking further about this, if the barrier does affect the time stop effect, perhaps this is why time started to freeze when the Coyote-transmitting etheric beam apparently impinged on the defensive shield here in the last panel. Maybe the shield is essentially some sort of time barrier?

[Runningflame]

Jul 9, 2021 7:10:36 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

He's invited Antimony into this layer because he likes having an audience

But the majestic CoyoteReborn always has a rapt audience! What better audience could he ask for than us?

[blazingstar]

Jul 9, 2021 7:07:39 GMT philman said:

So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected.

Exposition time Coyote, what the hell is going on?!

Jul 9, 2021 15:48:39 GMT mzpx said:

Reassessing 'they almost got it': 'they almost figured out a way to turn me into pure etheric energy'.

mzpx has got me thinking. I think the court was trying to not only capture Coyote (are we calling him Memory!Coyote for now?) but to distill his essence into pure ether, store it, and use it as a battery. It would fit the theme of humans seeing the creatures of the forest as useless, mindless animals with no productive purpose, and using the etheric sciences only to further their ends of industrialization (or weaponry).

In other words, a magical god is just free energy sitting there being wasted. (Insert "it's free real estate" meme here.)

[maxptc]

I don't think we get to keep this avatar of Coyete for long, but the doggo himself seems inbound to me. I still think Loup is about to leave us, but my big question now is if we are getting Ysengrin back this chapter. If this device is pulling Coyete as well as the memory of Coyete from Loup, would just Ysengrin be left?

[jda]

Question: Why does Annie's mind state was a prerequisite to what Ata and Co. was about to try?