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Post by silicondream on May 15, 2021 5:32:26 GMT
Yeah, I've often wondered about the historical timing of that. Although I figure it would more likely be a dudette, or other be-uterused person, to kick off the biological cycle. A Vestal Virgin, maybe? Or a red-headed Mary, stumbling out of a burning stable with a child in her arms and Joseph's ashes on her feet? Back when people believed in child-bearing as a literal magic power it might not have taken much at all. I don't remember enough of it to look it up, but I read one Eastern European fable where a woman conceived a fire-child because an ember from the fire fell in her lap. I think in that same one she had a second kid with ice-powers because a snowflake fell in her lap later, but I may be mixing my fables up. The Snow Daughter and the Fire Son, is it? Good eye, and I forgot all about it! I'm sure Tom's never heard of it though. Too bad they weren't twins. Imagine being able to shout "Antipode 2" as your water breaks. "It must be hard to be a single father. How did your wife pass away?" "She was weak against Shadow damage" |
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Post by todd on May 15, 2021 13:27:28 GMT
This is one of the most realistic things in this supernatural-filled comic. A genuinely difficult relationship. I've wondered whether this is one reason why the Antony thread makes many of us feel uncomfortable. A lot of the other "dark moments" in the webcomic are "fantasy events"; Loup attacking the Court, for example. Both shake the story up dramatically, both shift it into a more serious stage with the more "fun and games" aspects being written out. But Loup's attack is fantasy (a mad wolf-god using his etheric abilities to wreak havoc), while Antony's story (a man being emotionally remote from his daughter because of his social anxieties, added to which she reminds him too much of his late wife, whom he's still grieving for) could happen in real life; you'd need to make a few adjustments (such as removing the "fire elemental" component of Surma's death), but not much. Loup's war on the Court we can fit into the fantastic elements of the story, seeing it as being to "Gunnerkrigg Court" what the return of Voldemort was to the Harry Potter series (both even take place near the end of the main character's fourth year at school), but the Antony thread is more "realistic fiction" in tone. |
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Post by wies on May 15, 2021 20:27:29 GMT
This is one of the most realistic things in this supernatural-filled comic. A genuinely difficult relationship. I've wondered whether this is one reason why the Antony thread makes many of us feel uncomfortable. A lot of the other "dark moments" in the webcomic are "fantasy events"; Loup attacking the Court, for example. Both shake the story up dramatically, both shift it into a more serious stage with the more "fun and games" aspects being written out. But Loup's attack is fantasy (a mad wolf-god using his etheric abilities to wreak havoc), while Antony's story (a man being emotionally remote from his daughter because of his social anxieties, added to which she reminds him too much of his late wife, whom he's still grieving for) could happen in real life; you'd need to make a few adjustments (such as removing the "fire elemental" component of Surma's death), but not much. Loup's war on the Court we can fit into the fantastic elements of the story, seeing it as being to "Gunnerkrigg Court" what the return of Voldemort was to the Harry Potter series (both even take place near the end of the main character's fourth year at school), but the Antony thread is more "realistic fiction" in tone. And to stay in Harry Potter, Umbridge, while being a minor antagonist, made a lot of people experience visceral feelings such as disgust and hatred because she is a more realistic portrayal of abuse than Voldemort. |
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Post by todd on May 15, 2021 23:51:00 GMT
And to stay in Harry Potter, Umbridge, while being a minor antagonist, made a lot of people experience visceral feelings such as disgust and hatred because she is a more realistic portrayal of abuse than Voldemort. Yes, with the difference that Umbridge was straightforwardly nasty, where Antony is a lot more complex. |
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Post by silicondream on May 16, 2021 3:19:49 GMT
This is one of the most realistic things in this supernatural-filled comic. A genuinely difficult relationship. I've wondered whether this is one reason why the Antony thread makes many of us feel uncomfortable. A lot of the other "dark moments" in the webcomic are "fantasy events"; Loup attacking the Court, for example. Both shake the story up dramatically, both shift it into a more serious stage with the more "fun and games" aspects being written out. But Loup's attack is fantasy (a mad wolf-god using his etheric abilities to wreak havoc), while Antony's story (a man being emotionally remote from his daughter because of his social anxieties, added to which she reminds him too much of his late wife, whom he's still grieving for) could happen in real life; you'd need to make a few adjustments (such as removing the "fire elemental" component of Surma's death), but not much. That certainly seems like a factor. What I still find hard to account for, though, is the fanbase's relative comfort with Zimmy and Gamma. Sure, they're magical- ish, but they're also the most down-to-earth example of intimate partner abuse one can imagine. Tom even provides helpful little psych summaries to drive the point home. I don't expect people to hate Zimmy for it, they've seen inside her head too much for that, but don't they instinctively want to help Gamma? I can't even see her without wanting to whisk her off to somewhere with sleep aids, English dictionaries, and adolescent therapists. Like, Annie's over here going "I'm fine everyone, I'm handling things," and Gamma's over there saying nothing because Zimmy won't even let her speak to anyone else and now she's passed out again. Does she even go to class? Any class? How long would it take people to notice if she disappeared into Zimmingham forever? Maybe you just have to hit parent/teacher age yourself before that starts to affect you as strongly. |
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Post by faiiry on May 16, 2021 3:29:10 GMT
I've actually wondered about Zimmy and Gamma's abusive relationship myself, and why nobody, including me, seems to be particularly uncomfortable with it. Zimmy does explicitly abuse Gamma by using her language barrier to lie to her and isolate her, but for some reason it just doesn't hit me as hard as Anthony being distant and cold to his daughter and humiliating her in public. I guess it depends on what sort of abuse you've experienced in your own life. I've never been in a relationship like Zimmy and Gamma's, but I have had the experience of a parent a lot like Anthony.
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yinglung
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It's only a tatter of mime.
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Post by yinglung on May 16, 2021 4:43:10 GMT
It might also be that Zimmy lives in fear of the moments she doesn't have Gamma to keep her inner(?) demons away, so while she is unhealthily codependent and paranoid, her motives are understandable.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2021 5:36:55 GMT
I think Zeta lives in fear that one day she'll lose Gamma one way or another, and using her up through chronic sleep depravation is a possibility since Zeta never sleeps. I've actually wondered about Zimmy and Gamma's abusive relationship myself, and why nobody, including me, seems to be particularly uncomfortable with it. Zimmy does explicitly abuse Gamma by using her language barrier to lie to her and isolate her, but for some reason it just doesn't hit me as hard as Anthony being distant and cold to his daughter and humiliating her in public. I suppose the reason people are more comfortable with Zeta and Gamma's relationship is because they're in love (though it's been formsprung that they may not be a couple in the way people think, whatever that means) and because we haven't been able to come up with an easy solution... but we have been discussing the problem on the forum and I did take a shot at it. The essence of it was using Court resources to take shifts Zimmy-sitting by those in the Court capable of doing so, which after a while would give Zeta more stability and a shot at something approaching a normal-ish life. I'd link to the post but proboards search keeps returning zero results for me tonight. And is eating my links. formspring search result link http://http://www.chrysoprax.org/gunnerkrigg/results?term=zimmy+gamma+couple |
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Post by wies on May 16, 2021 6:18:47 GMT
And to stay in Harry Potter, Umbridge, while being a minor antagonist, made a lot of people experience visceral feelings such as disgust and hatred because she is a more realistic portrayal of abuse than Voldemort. Yes, with the difference that Umbridge was straightforwardly nasty, where Antony is a lot more complex. Agreed. About Zimmy and Gamma, a factor is also that their relationship seems to have become more balanced as they got older. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 16, 2021 15:11:20 GMT
I've wondered whether this is one reason why the Antony thread makes many of us feel uncomfortable. A lot of the other "dark moments" in the webcomic are "fantasy events"; Loup attacking the Court, for example. Both shake the story up dramatically, both shift it into a more serious stage with the more "fun and games" aspects being written out. But Loup's attack is fantasy (a mad wolf-god using his etheric abilities to wreak havoc), while Antony's story (a man being emotionally remote from his daughter because of his social anxieties, added to which she reminds him too much of his late wife, whom he's still grieving for) could happen in real life; you'd need to make a few adjustments (such as removing the "fire elemental" component of Surma's death), but not much. That certainly seems like a factor. What I still find hard to account for, though, is the fanbase's relative comfort with Zimmy and Gamma. Sure, they're magical- ish, but they're also the most down-to-earth example of intimate partner abuse one can imagine. Tom even provides helpful little psych summaries to drive the point home. I don't expect people to hate Zimmy for it, they've seen inside her head too much for that, but don't they instinctively want to help Gamma? I can't even see her without wanting to whisk her off to somewhere with sleep aids, English dictionaries, and adolescent therapists. Like, Annie's over here going "I'm fine everyone, I'm handling things," and Gamma's over there saying nothing because Zimmy won't even let her speak to anyone else and now she's passed out again. Does she even go to class? Any class? How long would it take people to notice if she disappeared into Zimmingham forever? Maybe you just have to hit parent/teacher age yourself before that starts to affect you as strongly. Those are exactly my feelings about their relationship, and I have often before stated that to me it feels much worse than what Annie is going through. Annie has many difficulties, but also many positive influences and a lot of freedom in her life. Gamma's life appears so nightmarish to me I can't even fully imagine it. Indeed, if she were a real person I would want to do exactly what you described.
Zimmy's life before meeting Gamma was a constant nightmare, too, and it still regularly becomes one, I don't deny that. But it doesn't excuse what she puts Gamma through.
About Zimmy and Gamma, a factor is also that their relationship seems to have become more balanced as they got older. I'm not seeing that, honestly. To be fair, though, we see them so seldom that we cannot be sure either way. |
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Post by todd on May 17, 2021 0:17:18 GMT
Further expanding my thoughts on our response to Antony and that it may stem from the Antony and Annie story being more realistic, with fewer fantasy elements than other elements, something else occurred to me.
When Antony became an on-stage character in "Gunnerkrigg Court", he was part of a major shake-up of the story, Annie's being sent back a year for cheating, forbidden to visit the Forest, ordered to turn Reynardine over to Antony, and absolutely distraught over it, so distraught that virtually all she could think of was this upheaval and Antony's role in it. Suddenly the "fun and games" part of "Gunnerkrigg Court" appeared over, with all that Annie would be doing being studying, homework, and mulling over her father being so emotionally distant. I remember wondering how the story would continue after this. Antony gave a "real life intrudes" element that we didn't see with anyone else - Coyote, Ysengrin, Zimmy and Gamma, Loup - all felt part of the "fantasy adventure" tone of "Gunnerkrigg Court". Antony looked as if he was pulling the story away from that, bolting the door on Annie having further adventures and escapades that had filled the first fifty chapters or so, and that may be another reason why we feel more ill at ease with him.
It turned out, of course, that Antony was acting under orders from the Court and that what this really was about was, not Annie cheating, but her getting involved in the Forest-Court politics in a way that the Court was alarmed about - added by Antony being still in an emotional mess over his wife's death and taking it out on Annie; the "grounded for copying off Kat" was just the cover-story. Antony revoked some of the earlier restrictions, allowing Annie to return to Gilltie Wood and returning Reynardine to her. Much of the other restriction element which did remain, from the "narrative purpose" perspective, seems to have been to indicate that the story was growing up and getting more serious, thus putting Annie through a personal crisis to change her and make her grow and to start removing the elements that felt more appropriate to the earlier days of the comic than the new version (returning to "Harry Potter", think similarly of how elements like Bertie Botts' Every Flavor Beans, Chocolate Frogs, competition over the House Cup, and Quidditch faded out as the story became more serious and revolved more around Voldemort's return than around adventures in wizard school - and particularly as Harry Potter and his friends changed from children to adolescents). The upheaval in "The Tree", I believe, was to mark that "Gunnerkrigg Court" was growing up along with Annie, and the mood and content were changing to mark it. (When Antony tells Annie that she has to move out of the dorm to avoid distractions, I wonder whether that statement was intended as applying as much to the story as to her - an indication that there would be less room in the comic for things like "Friends"-parody robots that might draw the readers' attention away from the main story.)
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Post by aline on May 17, 2021 9:13:38 GMT
Zimmy does explicitly abuse Gamma by using her language barrier to lie to her and isolate her We don't know that Zimmy is mistranslating in order to isolate Gamma. We saw one occurence of mistranslation and it happened when Zimmy was very jumpy and defensive, protective of Gamma but expecting the people around to do something: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=451 "Don't touch her" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=452 "If you try anything" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=453 Here these lines are particularly telling: Margo: "Hi, are you in year 9? I like your hair." Zimmy, answering for Gamma: "She's 14 but still in year 8 like us, you got a problem with that?" -> going for the worst possible interpretation that what Margo said wasn't a sincere question but a subtle insult So does she mistranslate because she wants Gamma not to have friends? Or because she sees the world in a distorted way and in that moment she does think Margo insulted Gamma's looks and intelligence? Personally, although that relationship looks unhealthy due to codependance I also see Zimmy going on that ship in the Torn Sea even though it was bad for her, just because it would make Gamma happy. Zimmy cares about Gamma's needs just as much as Gamma cares bout Zimmy's. But not necessarily in the right way because she's Zimmy and she's a paranoid mess. |
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Post by saardvark on May 17, 2021 12:05:40 GMT
Zimmy does explicitly abuse Gamma by using her language barrier to lie to her and isolate her We don't know that Zimmy is mistranslating in order to isolate Gamma. We saw one occurence of mistranslation and it happened when Zimmy was very jumpy and defensive, protective of Gamma but expecting the people around to do something: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=451 "Don't touch her" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=452 "If you try anything" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=453 Here these lines are particularly telling: Margo: "Hi, are you in year 9? I like your hair." Zimmy, answering for Gamma: "She's 14 but still in year 8 like us, you got a problem with that?" -> going for the worst possible interpretation that what Margo said wasn't a sincere question but a subtle insult So does she mistranslate because she wants Gamma not to have friends? Or because she sees the world in a distorted way and in that moment she does think Margo insulted Gamma's looks and intelligence? Personally, although that relationship looks unhealthy due to codependance I also see Zimmy going on that ship in the Torn Sea even though it was bad for her, just because it would make Gamma happy. Zimmy cares about Gamma's needs just as much as Gamma cares bout Zimmy's. But not necessarily in the right way because she's Zimmy and she's a paranoid mess. Zimms actually completely inverts what Margo is saying: "Are you in year 9 and I love your hair". .... subtext: "Your quite tall, maybe older than us? Love your hair!" is warped by Zimmy's paranoia to "Youre old enough to be in year 9 but are only in year 8 so you must be STUPID! Oh and I LOVE your [stupid] hair [/snark]!" You may be right... and that puts Zimmy in a slightly kinder light. In her mind she's isolating Gamma to protect her feelings from mean people.... edit: but Tom's comment pretty much nixes this idea... see V and pyradonis below ... now placing unkind lights back onto the Zimmster! |
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
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Post by V on May 17, 2021 12:31:06 GMT
Zimms actually completely inverts what Margo is saying: "Are you in year 9 and I love your hair". .... subtext: "Your quite tall, maybe older than us? Love your hair!" is warped by Zimmy's paranoia to "Youre old enough to be in year 9 but are only in year 8 so you must be STUPID! Oh and I LOVE your [stupid] hair [/snark]!" You may be right... and that puts Zimmy in a slightly kinder light. In her mind she's isolating Gamma to protect her feelings from mean people.... I think Gamma has her doubts on her translation, though, and used the opportunity to confirm this with Annie. How could she not? Even if one does not understand the words, Margo's face and body language does not indicate anything of the sort of what Zimmy's saying. Maybe meeting someone to occasionally talk to directly is what will help Γ mature into a more balanced relationship.
Also – Tom's comment.
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Post by pyradonis on May 17, 2021 12:41:42 GMT
Zimmy does explicitly abuse Gamma by using her language barrier to lie to her and isolate her We don't know that Zimmy is mistranslating in order to isolate Gamma. We saw one occurence of mistranslation and it happened when Zimmy was very jumpy and defensive, protective of Gamma but expecting the people around to do something: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=451 "Don't touch her" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=452 "If you try anything" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=453 Here these lines are particularly telling: Margo: "Hi, are you in year 9? I like your hair." Zimmy, answering for Gamma: "She's 14 but still in year 8 like us, you got a problem with that?" -> going for the worst possible interpretation that what Margo said wasn't a sincere question but a subtle insult So does she mistranslate because she wants Gamma not to have friends? Or because she sees the world in a distorted way and in that moment she does think Margo insulted Gamma's looks and intelligence? Tom's comment under page 453: "Zimmy is straight up lying. She knows the best way to keep a friend is to make them think everyone else hates them." I don't see much room for another interpretation. What we don't know is if Zimmy is still doing this.
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Post by aline on May 17, 2021 21:18:54 GMT
Tom's comment under page 453: "Zimmy is straight up lying. She knows the best way to keep a friend is to make them think everyone else hates them." I don't see much room for another interpretation. What we don't know is if Zimmy is still doing this. Oh right, I missed that. That settles the argument indeed. In the more recent pages I also got the impression Gamma looked content, if tired, so this relationship must be fulfilling a need for her too, if in an unhealthy way. I do wonder what she gets out of this, and how she decided to stick with Zimmy in the first place. She probably wouldn't have chosen to roam the streets with her if she had a comfortable family home to go back to. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 17, 2021 23:27:03 GMT
In the more recent pages I also got the impression Gamma looked content, if tired, so this relationship must be fulfilling a need for her too, if in an unhealthy way. I do wonder what she gets out of this, and how she decided to stick with Zimmy in the first place. She probably wouldn't have chosen to roam the streets with her if she had a comfortable family home to go back to. I assume one of the reasons was having someone she could actually communicate with. I also believe Tom once said Zimmy once killed a stray dog that was attacking Gamma, so maybe she felt Zimmy would protect her from mundane dangers while she protected Zimmy from the dangers of her own mind? I could also imagine Gamma enjoyed being able to help someone...or Zimmy was the first person to actually be kind to her. As you said, she probably didn't exactly have a comfortable family home to go back to, and most people on the streets of Birmingham probably did not have much love for some stray kid that didn't even speak English. |
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Post by Gemminie on May 18, 2021 0:01:16 GMT
In the more recent pages I also got the impression Gamma looked content, if tired, so this relationship must be fulfilling a need for her too, if in an unhealthy way. I do wonder what she gets out of this, and how she decided to stick with Zimmy in the first place. She probably wouldn't have chosen to roam the streets with her if she had a comfortable family home to go back to. I think the answer is simple. Gamma has a telepathic connection with Zimmy. She sees a Zimmy that literally no one else sees. My guess? The inner Zimmy is beautiful beyond measure. |
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Post by aline on May 18, 2021 8:43:37 GMT
I assume one of the reasons was having someone she could actually communicate with. Even in Birmingham there are many other polish speakers. That wouldn't be a factor unless Gamma was already completely cut off from her community, or she needed to leave very badly. I also believe Tom once said Zimmy once killed a stray dog that was attacking Gamma, so maybe she felt Zimmy would protect her from mundane dangers while she protected Zimmy from the dangers of her own mind? If she was a runaway kid surviving in the streets, anybody willing to stick around would make her safer, tbh. I wish we'd know more about her circumstances. She's a very secundary character so I suppose there's no time for that... |
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Post by agasa on May 18, 2021 9:03:20 GMT
Yes, with the difference that Umbridge was straightforwardly nasty, where Antony is a lot more complex. Real people are seldom just embodiment of a single character trait. For me, the portrayal of Anthony goes beyond anything I saw in any single character in Harry Potter, as far as realism goes. That's why he's so difficult to actually enjoy as a character for me: I see him as a real person, and I rarely genuinely like real people 100%. Which in turn, makes me enjoy him even more, but on a different level. I don't love him, but I love the whole thing. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 18, 2021 19:12:08 GMT
I assume one of the reasons was having someone she could actually communicate with. Even in Birmingham there are many other polish speakers. That wouldn't be a factor unless Gamma was already completely cut off from her community, or she needed to leave very badly. I also believe Tom once said Zimmy once killed a stray dog that was attacking Gamma, so maybe she felt Zimmy would protect her from mundane dangers while she protected Zimmy from the dangers of her own mind? If she was a runaway kid surviving in the streets, anybody willing to stick around would make her safer, tbh. I wish we'd know more about her circumstances. She's a very secundary character so I suppose there's no time for that... Fair enough, I didn't think that far... I also have to admit I know nothing about Birmingham. |
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Post by silicondream on May 23, 2021 11:23:08 GMT
but we have been discussing the problem on the forum and I did take a shot at it. The essence of it was using Court resources to take shifts Zimmy-sitting by those in the Court capable of doing so, which after a while would give Zeta more stability and a shot at something approaching a normal-ish life. I think shifts are an important element, yeah. Frankly, Gamma should not be permitted to be with Zimmy 24/7. Five days a week maybe, then take her somewhere else on the weekends for remedial education, medical care, therapy and absolute fucking pampering. Besides Annie, I imagine Jack and Jenny forming a polycule for Zimmy-sitting, and there's always Jones as a backup. Beyond that, as many other people have suggested...just move the girl. Set up a field station on a desert island in Micronesia or the Pacific Northwest, somewhere isolated and rainy. Leave some canned food and cleaning supplies and a single radio set or satellite-enabled computer, make sure the rest of the island is camera-free. Gamma stays with her for most but not all of the time, and the people she gets along with (currently an extremely short list) visit occasionally. That alone would give her a better life than she's ever experienced so far. In the more recent pages I also got the impression Gamma looked content, if tired, so this relationship must be fulfilling a need for her too, if in an unhealthy way. Gamma's always looked content, and unless she's an avatar of Kuan Yin I think that's mostly to do with her expectations being incredibly low. But yes, she clearly enjoys Zimmy's presence immensely. I wouldn't want to split them up, just give Gamma some space to discover herself and also not die of sleep deprivation. Word of Tom is that "Gamma does not talk or think about her family," and also that "if [Zimmy's parents] could remember her, they would be glad she is gone." Both of these girls grew up in hellish situations, I imagine. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 24, 2021 2:35:00 GMT
but we have been discussing the problem on the forum and I did take a shot at it. The essence of it was using Court resources to take shifts Zimmy-sitting by those in the Court capable of doing so, which after a while would give Zeta more stability and a shot at something approaching a normal-ish life. I think shifts are an important element, yeah. Frankly, Gamma should not be permitted to be with Zimmy 24/7. Five days a week maybe, then take her somewhere else on the weekends for remedial education, medical care, therapy and absolute fucking pampering. Besides Annie, I imagine Jack and Jenny forming a polycule for Zimmy-sitting, and there's always Jones as a backup. Beyond that, as many other people have suggested...just move the girl. Set up a field station on a desert island in Micronesia or the Pacific Northwest, somewhere isolated and rainy. Leave some canned food and cleaning supplies and a single radio set or satellite-enabled computer, make sure the rest of the island is camera-free. Gamma stays with her for most but not all of the time, and the people she gets along with (currently an extremely short list) visit occasionally. That alone would give her a better life than she's ever experienced so far. They were studying her so she probably had to be in the Court until recently. Not entirely sure but since the Court is closer to the ether than regular places I'm thinking Zeta may benefit from the higher "etheric pressure" and have fewer episodes where she's at. Coyote/"Loup" being there probably makes things worse but even so I think Zeta's better off at the Court than a random place. Now, there are other places in the world that are closer to the ether that might have a similar or better effect, and the Court could probably find one through trial-and-error if nothing else, maybe even one on an isolated Pacific island, but the Court collects talented people in the Court. The people who might be good at Zimmy-sitting are mostly there already; transporting them to a remote island and back would mean regular flights which would eat a lot of their time and draw unwanted attention. The lack of cameras and random encounters with elves (and other people) would ease Zeta's mind but the lack of facilities on a desert island would pose a problem, particularly if emergency medical attention was needed. If there aren't people stationed there (besides Zimmy-sitters) then everything would have to be automated. Also not sure if Zeta's powers would have an effect on communications and power. It'd be tough to navigate to a small island in a big ocean if the radio and the lights on the landing strip are unreliable... although that might make for a good story for when after the comic's over. The Court probably could still set all that up, even finding another location where the etheric pressure would be high, but I suspect the cost of the facilities (including small airport) and tying up a lot of their people wouldn't be worth it... or maybe I should write "wasn't worth it." Now that they're done with her they may want her out of the Court but still somewhere they control until they need her again, in which case they might rethink things. The biggest obstacle to overcome would of course be Zeta herself. I think she'd be very upset with any proposed plan to separate her from Gamma, maybe violently so. That might be something that could be overcome in the Court by having shifts of "Zimmy-sitters" in addition to Gamma 24/7 for a while; that way Gamma could sleep and they could find out what sitters would have personality conflicts with Zeta (and I suppose Gamma) and make some quick substitutions as needed. As time passes and Zimmy becomes less reliant on Gamma maybe she'd be okay with giving Gamma a whole day off. And by "time passes" I mean years, probably. And that's under the assumption that Zeta's powers would become more stable. |
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Post by silicondream on May 25, 2021 10:34:16 GMT
They were studying her so she probably had to be in the Court until recently. Yeah, I was supposing that the Court suddenly decided to treat her as a child rather than a guinea pig, which doesn't seem terribly likely at the moment. All the research on her certainly doesn't seem to be benefiting her. Word of Tom is that the Court's rain, at least, isn't special; Zimmy would benefit from being in any particularly rainy place. She simply doesn't know they exist, because, y'know, no education or money to go there. (I get the impression from Formspring that Zimmy's condition isn't that impossible to manage...she's just had a tough time finding anyone to care.) Whether the Court feels better for her when it's not raining I'm not sure, but it's hard to imagine her having the kind of episodes in Birmingham that she had at the Court. Wouldn't people have noticed her in that case? Very few places are that remote these days; even the Solomon Islands are only a couple of hours' flight from Fiji or New Guinea, where a small team could rotate Zimmy-sitting and Gamma-busing and otherwise spend their time getting Court research done. Jack and Jenny are already great at being discreet, and maybe Bud or Lindsey would be willing to hang out offshore. But if something closer's needed, there are spots in Scotland and Wales where they get like 250 days of rain a year. That wouldn't be much worse than her current situation, though; she and Gamma could be sick or injured for days in some corner of the Court without anybody noticing. Set up a dead-man's radio beacon or some such, and medics could reach her in a comparable time. Very little to automate, really. Zimmy only washes under extreme duress, and she grew up dumpster-diving and chasing rats for fun. Canned food and a setup like Tony's would be luxury to her. They managed to transport her from Birmingham to the Court, and from the Court to the harbor and back, and she's had full-on etheric distortions occur next to the power station and on board the cruise ship without blowing any fuses, so it doesn't seem like her abilities fritz with electronics. "Zim Grim" suggests that normal humans barely notice anything happening, other than her acting weird. And, see, that's the part that's unacceptable to me. Gamma's in a formative period; she doesn't have years. No matter how hard Zimmy has it, Gamma's welfare can't be hostage to her needs. (Until Gamma reaches adulthood and can choose codependence, I suppose.) They need to be regularly separated, so they can both learn that temporary separation is an option. If Zimmy gets violently upset, maybe she'll have to be 5150'd for a little while--not that hard, considering that Annie, a couple of ship robots, and random groups of teenagers have all subdued her before. It would be best to separate them during a rainstorm so she isn't as stressed in the first place. Let Annie help, and try out all those methods of psych support that we keep hoping they have for Tony. But even if Zimmy has to be in a terrible place for an hour this week, and two hours next week, and four hours the week after that...it still has to happen. It won't kill her; god knows she's survived far worse. I'm well aware that permanently separating the partners in an abusive relationship can sometimes do more harm than good, especially when they get something from each other that no one else can or will provide. But there are abduction victims who had healthier social lives than Gamma does right now. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 26, 2021 5:06:29 GMT
Word of Tom is that the Court's rain, at least, isn't special; Zimmy would benefit from being in any particularly rainy place. She simply doesn't know they exist, because, y'know, no education or money to go there. (I get the impression from Formspring that Zimmy's condition isn't that impossible to manage...she's just had a tough time finding anyone to care.) Whether the Court feels better for her when it's not raining I'm not sure, but it's hard to imagine her having the kind of episodes in Birmingham that she had at the Court. Wouldn't people have noticed her in that case? Yep, they would have noticed. That's probably where the unfortunate people came from who got "twinned" that Zeta was talking about. They wouldn't be believed when they told others what they experienced, though. And some people may have cared in Birmingham but they weren't equipped to deal with their situation. What makes Zeta's condition easy to manage is Gamma. The Court's rain may be just rain but the Court itself is a special place, and I figure it helps directly or indirectly, but mainly it's Gamma. Very few places are that remote these days; even the Solomon Islands are only a couple of hours' flight from Fiji or New Guinea, where a small team could rotate Zimmy-sitting and Gamma-busing and otherwise spend their time getting Court research done. Jack and Jenny are already great at being discreet, and maybe Bud or Lindsey would be willing to hang out offshore. But if something closer's needed, there are spots in Scotland and Wales where they get like 250 days of rain a year. I guess one good thing that came of Malaysian Flight 370 is that the search for it demonstrated that the Pacific is still a really really big place. I think it'd have to be an island in the Atlantic that's closer to the Court. That wouldn't be much worse than her current situation, though; she and Gamma could be sick or injured for days in some corner of the Court without anybody noticing. Set up a dead-man's radio beacon or some such, and medics could reach her in a comparable time. If either Gamma or Zeta got hurt in the Court the other (or whoever's less hurt) would presumably go for medical supplies or help as needed. Gamma's language barrier would be a problem but the robots were keeping the infrastructure going (including emergency phones) so whatever they needed is minutes away. Medics that are hours away aren't nearly as good because time is a factor. Very little to automate, really. Zimmy only washes under extreme duress, and she grew up dumpster-diving and chasing rats for fun. Canned food and a setup like Tony's would be luxury to her. Even she rarely uses them she'd still need facilities. And other people staying there would need them also. They managed to transport her from Birmingham to the Court, and from the Court to the harbor and back, and she's had full-on etheric distortions occur next to the power station and on board the cruise ship without blowing any fuses, so it doesn't seem like her abilities fritz with electronics. "Zim Grim" suggests that normal humans barely notice anything happening, other than her acting weird. I think that's probably the case (all things held equal) but cities have lots of relays and a grid, while larger distances can make small distortions more noticeable. I completely agree with your goal but I think that forcibly separating Gamma and Zeta would be Silent Hill franchise-level bad. Sure, Zeta as a human is weak. She can be easily overpowered physically, drugged and restrained. But she never sleeps. She literally can't. I think what would happen is that if sedated or immobilized long enough she'd just shift. Her consciousness would continue without break in continuity, but in another of those layers of reality. And at first, people back in normal reality would just see her immobile on the bed. Stuff that happens in the other layers of realty isn't real... until it is. Zeta in the other layers of reality walks through other people's minds and splits lips from (tens of? hundreds of?) kilometers away. What we've seen in the comic is Zeta in a relatively benign state. What happens if she decides to let the things trapped in her head out on purpose? Would they love her like the Whitelegs and try to get into other people's minds, maybe do what she says? You can easily kill real world Zeta, of course, but I'm not sure even that would stop her. Better by far to support them together and let the absolute need they have for each other dwindle before starting to separate them. |
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