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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 5, 2021 8:04:06 GMT
I wonder if it's literally exaggerating that aspect of Antimonies or if Gamma is being figurative. |
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Post by bicarbonat on Feb 5, 2021 8:11:45 GMT
"Ah, poor child. Can't she learn to do both?"
TFW you come to the page for a good time, but Tom decides that you can have a little grief counseling, as a treat.
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Post by somebunny on Feb 5, 2021 8:42:32 GMT
Dodging the question, Renard?
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Post by wies on Feb 5, 2021 8:44:29 GMT
Never guessed we would have a renard-gamma talk, but I am enjoying it.
I wonder if it's literally exaggerating that aspect of Antimonies or if Gamma is being figurative. I think Gamma means that Surma's appearance and subsequent gopping is the exaggerating in itself. It is all pretty literal for something that normally would only play in your own head. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 5, 2021 8:44:36 GMT
Turns out, Gamma is an incredibly insightful person on the rare occasions that she's not suffering from extreme sleep deprivation
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Post by wies on Feb 5, 2021 8:45:34 GMT
Turns out, Gamma is an incredibly insightful person on the rare occasions that she's not suffering from extreme sleep deprivation Sleep deprivation messes up your mind fierce, I can confirm. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 5, 2021 8:51:09 GMT
Dodging the question, Renard? I've been dodging it myself. Once I settle on what "terrible" "deserve" and "happiness" best mean in this context I'll start working on generating an answer. |
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Post by madjack on Feb 5, 2021 8:59:19 GMT
Turns out, Gamma is an incredibly insightful person on the rare occasions that she's not suffering from extreme sleep deprivation Dealing with the effects of any kind of abuse/trauma everyday forces you to grow up real fast. Zimmy's powers/circumstance just make that more important. |
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Post by basser on Feb 5, 2021 9:16:31 GMT
So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole.
Cool, cool.
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Post by speedwell on Feb 5, 2021 9:26:31 GMT
So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole. Cool, cool. You only just forgot to close the circle by pointing out the symbiotic, codependent relationship of the 17-year-old guru with the aforementioned magical black hole.  |
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Post by shadow3 on Feb 5, 2021 11:01:01 GMT
My personal struggle is dwelling on versus letting go of ice cream.
:V
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 5, 2021 11:17:47 GMT
So... Gamma is asking whether Boxbot truly does not deserve happiness? A little harsh, isn't it? So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole. Cool, cool. I always love it when you do that. |
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Post by Corvo on Feb 5, 2021 11:40:51 GMT
So... Gamma is asking whether Boxbot truly does not deserve happiness? A little harsh, isn't it? Does Boxbot think he is truly terrible? No. But everybody else does. |
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Post by Vuk(Wolf) on Feb 5, 2021 11:46:08 GMT
So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole. Cool, cool. Given Gamma Doesn't sleep that much, her mental age should be around 20-something when compared to her peers who loose 8 hours of coherent thought each night |
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Post by fia on Feb 5, 2021 12:20:41 GMT
One mental health trap is that, when explained to us, our mental health problems sound trite and dumb and easy to overcome. In reality it's a difficult slog and we never fully answer the question of whether we've done enough, because there's always the potential to slip back into old habits.
This page is insightful but the simplicity of Gamma's explanation belies the complexity of the process of living with disordered thinking or feeling. :/ For someone observing oneself the issue is so obvious and repetition of habit so predictable, but the person themselves can often remain oblivious even when they themselves live through every instance and know the issue in principle.
tl;dr: therapy is expensive y'all
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 5, 2021 13:40:25 GMT
So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole. Cool, cool. Given Gamma Doesn't sleep that much, her mental age should be around 20-something when compared to her peers who loose 8 hours of coherent thought each night That's a joke I assume? |
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Post by stevecharb on Feb 5, 2021 13:42:51 GMT
Renard calling Zimmy "Zimmy" instead of "the demon" is the kind of character development that's been in the making a long time and has aged like fine wine. Excellent writing. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=79 |
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Post by saardvark on Feb 5, 2021 14:41:40 GMT
just as Rey struggles with his feelings about being a killer and his feelings for Surma (tho seems he's largely come to terms with that...), and as Gamma perhaps begins to with her feelings for Zimmy (a little?)....
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Post by Gemminie on Feb 5, 2021 15:30:37 GMT
So this clears up some questions about Gamma's last line from the previous page.
Gamma: "[Zimmy] honestly feels some people, like herself, do not deserve to be happy."
Renard: "A little harsh, isn't it?"
G: "But what if it's true?"
There are at least three interpretations of this: "What if some people don't deserve happiness?" "What if Zimmy doesn't deserve happiness?" and "What if Zimmy feels she doesn't deserve happiness?"
From this page it's clear that Gamma meant the third one. Her "What if it's true?" means, "What if in Zimmy's mind, it's absolutely true that she's a terrible person who doesn't deserve happiness?" Gamma knows that Zimmy believes this untruth about herself. She loves Zimmy but wishes she wouldn't do this to herself. It's as if Gamma can see the real person that Zimmy is inside, the real Zimmy that outer-Zimmy is trying hard to conceal, putting up this shell of self-hatred until nothing of the real Zimmy shines forth except for a tiny ray of light that shines from her heart now and then, when she helps someone. Of course, Gamma is telepathic, at least with Zimmy, so she can see into Zimmy's mind and know the truth.
Renard's speech bubbles are regular speech bubbles, while Gamma is "speaking" (without opening her mouth) in rectangles of the sort usually reserved for narration. My usual (possibly unhealthy) obsession with clearly knowing what's going on (why do I read this comic, then?) continues to make me speculate about what sort of space Gamma and Renard are in. Is this merely a symbolic representation of the fact that Renard and Gamma are in telepathic contact (but if this were the case, why have different speech borders at all)? Or does there exist a space within the Ether where Gamma and Renard are literally both present in some way, and is that what we're seeing? Humans who experience the Ether seem to produce a projected body that acts in the Ether while their physical body lies dormant in the physical world (unless they physically go into the Ether, such as in chapters 46-47, but that seems to require a special gateway). Renard lives in the Ether; we're seeing his native form here. He speaks English, so he's speaking it here. But Gamma, not speaking English, is sending her thoughts as she usually does to Zimmy, only because she's projecting into the Ether she's able to send to Renard too. How is Gamma understanding Renard? Maybe she can perceive what he's trying to say in his mind telepathically, as she usually does with Zimmy.
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 5, 2021 15:33:04 GMT
Sadly trapped between two mind states, with the fallacy that there are no others.
If we're smart enough and quick enough, there's always another option, whether we see it or not. Dichotomy is rarely ever true.
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Post by blahzor on Feb 5, 2021 15:34:33 GMT
So we got a 17 year old dissertating the tragedy of self to a nature god whilst they both float in a dark void outside the borders of reality watching two copies of a firebending grim reaper argue under insidious influence of the misfired powers of a clinically depressed magic black hole. Cool, cool. You only just forgot to close the circle by pointing out the symbiotic, codependent relationship of the 17-year-old guru with the aforementioned magical black hole. she's so goth she is in love with a magical black hole. all you other goths can't hang |
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 5, 2021 16:58:23 GMT
Turns out, Gamma is an incredibly insightful person on the rare occasions that she's not suffering from extreme sleep deprivation Maybe it's "walk around with weights on your legs" sort of thing? Also, she regularly observes mind games Zimmy plays with herself. |
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Post by Vuk(Wolf) on Feb 5, 2021 17:39:51 GMT
Given Gamma Doesn't sleep that much, her mental age should be around 20-something when compared to her peers who loose 8 hours of coherent thought each night That's a joke I assume? It's a reference to a YouTube video. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 5, 2021 18:49:11 GMT
It's a reference to a YouTube video. Ohhh, okay. |
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Post by saardvark on Feb 5, 2021 19:55:59 GMT
So this clears up some questions about Gamma's last line from the previous page. Gamma: "[Zimmy] honestly feels some people, like herself, do not deserve to be happy." Renard: "A little harsh, isn't it?" G: "But what if it's true?" There are at least three interpretations of this: "What if some people don't deserve happiness?" "What if Zimmy doesn't deserve happiness?" and "What if Zimmy feels she doesn't deserve happiness?" From this page it's clear that Gamma meant the third one. Her "What if it's true?" means, "What if in Zimmy's mind, it's absolutely true that she's a terrible person who doesn't deserve happiness?" Gamma knows that Zimmy believes this untruth about herself. She loves Zimmy but wishes she wouldn't do this to herself. It's as if Gamma can see the real person that Zimmy is inside, the real Zimmy that outer-Zimmy is trying hard to conceal, putting up this shell of self-hatred until nothing of the real Zimmy shines forth except for a tiny ray of light that shines from her heart now and then, when she helps someone. Of course, Gamma is telepathic, at least with Zimmy, so she can see into Zimmy's mind and know the truth. Renard's speech bubbles are regular speech bubbles, while Gamma is "speaking" (without opening her mouth) in rectangles of the sort usually reserved for narration. My usual (possibly unhealthy) obsession with clearly knowing what's going on (why do I read this comic, then?) continues to make me speculate about what sort of space Gamma and Renard are in. Is this merely a symbolic representation of the fact that Renard and Gamma are in telepathic contact (but if this were the case, why have different speech borders at all)? Or does there exist a space within the Ether where Gamma and Renard are literally both present in some way, and is that what we're seeing? Humans who experience the Ether seem to produce a projected body that acts in the Ether while their physical body lies dormant in the physical world (unless they physically go into the Ether, such as in chapters 46-47, but that seems to require a special gateway). Renard lives in the Ether; we're seeing his native form here. He speaks English, so he's speaking it here. But Gamma, not speaking English, is sending her thoughts as she usually does to Zimmy, only because she's projecting into the Ether she's able to send to Renard too. How is Gamma understanding Renard? Maybe she can perceive what he's trying to say in his mind telepathically, as she usually does with Zimmy. Gamma's "speech" bubble is similar to when she is using telepathy, eg., www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=728but without the zig-zag connector and star-root on her head. So I think its telepathy of a sort - maybe special/different because of where they are or who/what Rey is. Gamma can be understood telepathically by Jack as well, even tho he doesnt speak Polish (presumably). This suggests to me that Gamma's telepathy is a deep mind-to-mind thing... she's not speaking into peoples minds (since that would be in Polish) but rather communicating mentally... they understand what she is thinking without any translation of those thoughts into actual language. |
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Post by Isildur on Feb 7, 2021 22:33:14 GMT
Renard calling Zimmy "Zimmy" instead of "the demon" is the kind of character development that's been in the making a long time and has aged like fine wine. Excellent writing. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=79Just a few pages ago he was engaging in his usual abhorence of her, when she ran into them. Now that he has some sort of distance, he's being more rational. My speculation: There's a possibility that all along, as an extremely ether-connected being, he's been especially susceptible to being influenced by what Zimmy thinks of herself, much like how she drew the elves into reenacting an earlier attack on her. He, similarly, may usually be swept into perceiving her as a "demon" (which has always been a curiously ironic accusation, coming from him). It could also be that anyone who themselves has similar guilt or self-loathing may be especially susceptible to her self-perception-spreading effect. Most characters may be susceptible to her "I'm a demon" effect to at least some extent. (Jones is surely immune to having her thinking directly influenced, but Zimmy's power partly makes her perceptions reality, and once something is made real, say, like a fingerprint on the Moon, even Jones has to percieve it too, so even Jones may see her with pointy teeth.) The fact that even we, the viewers, see her looking so creepy (sort of like Sadako from Ringu or Kayako from The Ju-On/Grudge) may be intended by Tom to reflect her ability to warp perception or even reality itself to accord with her self-perception. Her natural form might be much more innocuous-looking — maybe normal teeth, skin in some non-corpse shade, and no oozing eye ink. (Admittedly, the lack of sleep probably doesn't do wonders for her health.) |
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Post by jda on Feb 8, 2021 0:05:59 GMT
I love how good stories can make one project self on the characters. I also love how the posts on the forum can be a way to self-analyze.
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Post by jda on Feb 8, 2021 0:45:14 GMT
"that is the struggle, yes... and we all have this inside us"
Meaning, Gamma? Are you also in a struggle here... clinging to, or letting go ... of Zimmy?
Are you leaving, Gamma?
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 8, 2021 1:16:22 GMT
Renard calling Zimmy "Zimmy" instead of "the demon" is the kind of character development that's been in the making a long time and has aged like fine wine. Excellent writing. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=79Her natural form might be much more innocuous-looking — maybe normal teeth, skin in some non-corpse shade, and no oozing eye ink. (Admittedly, the lack of sleep probably doesn't do wonders for her health.) Actually Tom said that the gunk covering her eyes is just a visual metaphor, but her teeth really are pointy. |
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Post by Isildur on Feb 8, 2021 16:00:38 GMT
Her natural form might be much more innocuous-looking — maybe normal teeth, skin in some non-corpse shade, and no oozing eye ink. (Admittedly, the lack of sleep probably doesn't do wonders for her health.) Actually Tom said that the gunk covering her eyes is just a visual metaphor, but her teeth really are pointy. A Formspring QA? In any case, then my question is: Were they always so, or did she reality warp herself into having them pointy to accord with her self-image? |
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